You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks. The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it. How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.
Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.
But seriously... when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.
The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.
This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.
The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell. {mod edit}
They don't have to turn it into a sandbox game. They could just add game content that adds more depth to the game. There is a way to do that without turning SWTOR into a sandbox.
You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks. The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it. How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.
Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.
But seriously... when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.
The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.
This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.
The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell. {mod edit}
They don't have to turn it into a sandbox game. They could just add game content that adds more depth to the game. There is a way to do that without turning SWTOR into a sandbox.
I agree with almost everything you post, including this. I am not against sandboxing, I actually love it. but you can't compare sandbox to themepark, it's two different beasts. I would love to see some sandbox ideas implemented that would work with the SWTOR game, but creating massive open worlds with nothing on them is not the answer.
~ ~
Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
KOTOR, Mass Effect, and DA games haven't let me down in terms of games and sequels/expansions (although a few of the DLC weren't up to par), so I have a lot of faith in SWTOR at this point.
Dragon Age: Origins - 2009
Dragon Age II - March 10, 2011
If you think for a cold chance in hell mmo players are willing to wait that long for content updates you guys have another thing coming. Bioware is in for a rude awakening when SOME people even thought Trions schedule was slow.
Bioware has 2-3 months at most before people start raging hard for new content.
Once the story comes to an end, which it clearly will, there will probably be a fairly large exodus. Outside of sassy pvp types and a small raiding system, SWTOR doesn't offer anything new.
Future content? We all know that any added quests and story will be completed within 1-2 days.
The game has no retention.
absolutely and then there comes the aspect of the fail sub only mmo model that makes people wait at least 6 months before any MAJOR expansion is released. People will be leaving soon i am sure.
More story is coming. There are currently 3 acts in the game. There are plans to add more. They have the repeatable character voice actors on contract and are writing content at least 6 months in advance of when it's needed. Next month they are adding a new flashpoint, planet and raid.
The content is coming and it's coming fast. They kept the entire dev team after the game launched when most other MMO's layoff after launch. They are commited to releasing content quickly.
And while at it's very base it's similar to lots of MMO's there is also so much more going for it. And anyone that's played for any length of time would see that.
If even at the end the story stops and you are left with raids, pvp and flashpoints, well, many other MMO's do well with just that and still don't have the options of gameplay and customization that SWTOR has.
You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks. The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it. How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.
Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.
But seriously... when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.
The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.
This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.
The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell. {mod edit}
So because I'd actually like to interact with other players outside of tiny raids and instanced PvP makes me a bitter ex-SWG fan?
You don't get it. But you will.
The joke is on you, kid. Spew more of your negative attitude, it is enjoyable to read. And I would take a huge bet on atleast half of the negative attitudes(such as yourself) on mmorpg.com are ex-swg vets, people who never planned to buy SWTOR.
Apparently, you do not get it. But in time, maybe you will grow up.
I did buy the game. Are you capable of reading more than the first two lines of text?
The game is fun. But aftering experience the PvP of SWTOR, it's going to get boring come end game. Too boring to be worth a subscription payment, IMO.
Grow up? I did. That's why I yearn for complexity in my games. Perhaps you should grow up and stop dishing out cash for the same old hand-holding epidemic.
They may have to revert to generic content updates, interlaced with major expansions. It seems like it would be an overwhelming task, and asking a lot of them, to expect them to put out that much content that is fully voiced over all the time. I do not see anything wrong with that. With that said, Bioware shot themselves in the foot prematurely.
What do I mean when I say that? Because anything they do now sans VO will be looked at as lazy and it might upset the player base.
Bioware could alliviate some of this by simply adding content that can engage the players to participate in it as a community. Stuff revolving around the Jedi vs Sith background story. I mean the Star Wars IP dropped this golden opportunity right into their lap and I fear that Bioware will not take advantage of that more than anything.
Also, I personally think that Bioware should have done what Blizzard did with certain areas of their game using phasing, so that when a player does something sifnificant that changes the area it shows up. Though I know many people hate phasing, it is because Blizzard failed to implement it properly and allow higher level players to return to the area prior to it being phased to help fellow guildies or people in quest. That was the one thing that hurt using phasing. Bioware could have done this to say...hmmm...what's that planets name where the trooper starts? I don't remember I think it was Ord Mandel, anyway, there is a good example of where phasing could have been used. Instead of it staying the same despite the story saying otherwise, the player would see that they did have an impact on the game. I loved the Vanguard and Crusader areas of Northrend. When a player quested through the area and completed task the whole zone slowly changed as you defeated and pushed back the Lich Kings forces. That was cool. Bioware should be doing that as well.
I tend to agree here.
It does seem a monumantal task to keep the VO quality AND publish stuff fast. But, we gonna see.
Also, yes I too like well placed phasing. Seeing actual changes as results of your doings in WOW just was VERY cool. I never understood why people complained "oh but *I* can't see that". So what? Lets say if a chapter end, some things could and maybe should change in the world. Thats a huge steps of levels; I am level 30 with my Jedi and STILL in chapter 1. I think after a huge story conclusion, some phases could change, and as Teala said, probably the starter planets.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I find it funny that people claim the games story isn't upto par, yet the story is amazing. The people who are on a third alt probably only got to level 20 on their main and then come here and complain. I guess it's true,. Most people will bitch and moan over every little detail, to those people, stop playing games in general and find yourself anew hobby.
I think it's gamers themselves who are shooting themselves in the foot. More games are being released than ever and now there are MMOs that are continually releasing content and new DLC to extend the original content of games. This is so much more to do then when I was growing up and would only get a few games in a whole year and play them over and over.
When gamers take a week off and play a game for 80 hours within that first week then immediately begin screaming for more, they make it impossible for gaming companies (and regular people) to keep up with their insane demands for content and also produce high-quality content.
I am mystified how people have hit level cap on this game already and still have a life. Between work, holidays spending time with family, preparing for holidays, chores, social life, etc. etc. I have barely had time to get some characters to level 10. And guess what? I am having a great time in the game and not worried at all about the pace of future content because I know I will have plenty of play time ahead of me before I bump up against the wall of having nothing to do anymore. And so far, I have always seen other people around my same level doing stuff and have easily been able to find groups, so I know that not everyone is running around at level cap already. I am guessing this MMO may be a better fit for the casual gamer of the type that WoW attracts, who will level slower and take more time to enjoy the story along the way. Hardcore gamers/speedlevelers will probably find that this is not the best game for them, due to the time requirements for releasing substantial content. That's not Bioware's fault - they are not obligated to make games for every type of gamer, they make games for the people who will appreciate their style of game.
I agree with you 110% daid you hit the nail on the head right there. My guess is that people who put in 80+ hours a week have no social life at all if you tie in a work week of 40-45 hours a week plus tie in family friends whatever the case may be. I liked your comment that it's not biowares fault I agree with said statement, people need to look at that and say " geez maybe I have been playing way to much and maybe I should look at my play pattern before I post idiotic comments?"
BW to can't slack off that's for sure. Its a fact VO content will take longer to make and cost more money. If they end up like WoW with mill and mill of subs its np. If you only see 500'000 to 2 mill subs it will be a slow process that fans won't enjoy. P.S. I'm loving the game and I refuse to rush or skip content.
KOTOR, Mass Effect, and DA games haven't let me down in terms of games and sequels/expansions (although a few of the DLC weren't up to par), so I have a lot of faith in SWTOR at this point.
Dragon Age: Origins - 2009
Dragon Age II - March 10, 2011
If you think for a cold chance in hell mmo players are willing to wait that long for content updates you guys have another thing coming. Bioware is in for a rude awakening when SOME people even thought Trions schedule was slow.
Bioware has 2-3 months at most before people start raging hard for new content.
I agree that bioware really need to keep the updates coming to keep subs.. and i doubt they can do it it. But your post here is pretty ignorant, you're totally ignoring these add-ons:
Dragon Age: Origins - Return to Ostagar (Jan 13th 2010)
By maintaining the Bioware experience they must mean linear corridors, tons of instancing, and as always - numerous and long loading screens (even with hardware firepower), right? Because that's what I see a lot of in SWTOR from levels 1-50. Don't see much else.
I like the game so far, but I do think they may have placed a weight around their necks with the full voice and cinematics, I hope they can keep them going and live up to their claims. But reality wise I cant see this happening.
And I have done hammer station and Esseless countless times and still watch the cinematics and love the conversations. For me it never gets dull.
KOTOR, Mass Effect, and DA games haven't let me down in terms of games and sequels/expansions (although a few of the DLC weren't up to par), so I have a lot of faith in SWTOR at this point.
Dragon Age: Origins - 2009
Dragon Age II - March 10, 2011
If you think for a cold chance in hell mmo players are willing to wait that long for content updates you guys have another thing coming. Bioware is in for a rude awakening when SOME people even thought Trions schedule was slow.
Bioware has 2-3 months at most before people start raging hard for new content.
Of course people won't wait years, and I agree that 2-3 months is the breaking point for showing a "significant" addition to the game post-release. That said, TOR has (had?) a huge staff involved in the game, and assuming they retain most, may just be able to pull it off.
Well the planets are small, so there is little to explore, the crafting is very simplistic and not very useful, the leveling process is far too fast, most will be at end game well before the end of the first month. The space on rails gets tired really fast. What is left to keep people in game? Raiding?
I really doubt we will see much new content any time soon, they spent so much time on the quest process they did not have the time for development elsewhere.
I see no longevity here. Most players will be bored before spring. Reminds me of the Cataclysm update for Wow, of the many who came back to Wow to play it, most were bored by spring.
It all depends when something new hits, I think there will be a big exodus at that time.
So enjoy your time in SWTOR while it lasts, don't imagine you will see any queues at all after the first month.
Originally posted by veggie_eater Originally posted by warbot7777 Look at all these people crying about an amazing game. Just shut up and go play your nasty World of Warcraft. We won't miss you.
You should respect other people free right to speech. What are you doing here? Arent you going to fetch berries and kill rats with your Jedi?
Or kill sith initiates and acolytes. Or gather beer as a dwarfman in wow. Or collect crystals as a fegelf in wow. Or try to fix your broken spaceship in wow.
Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server
Thought I would add something besides repeating recycled whines and complaints. Bioware is a savvy company that is fully aware of the wide variety of playstyles and players. They know, for example, that powerlevelers are out there and will do their thing. The rush to endgame players will buy and take off running. Bioware simply bet on a great number of them to BUY the game. The company fully realizes they will not stay and will post away untill the next game. Rinse and repeat but meanwhile Bioware got their money and maybe a few months sub as well. Good enough.
Bioware is counting on more players like myself. I played two preorder betas, early access and now sub for a week. I have one main and he just reached lvl 15 during my first run of Esseles Flashpoint. The only thing that actually reaches the level of a problem is my eagerness to try out the other characters as well, but I intend to stick with my main for now. Bioware knows there are a LOT of players out here just like me. We know that any MMO has things that various players do not like - I found character creation lacking, no appearance tab a bit disappointing, an arcade space game is certainly not my cup of tea and I am still trying to figure out crafting. I am not a "fanboi', nor unmindful of what I believe can be changed or improved.
I do like the game, I am having fun playing and will wait and see what is to come. To the OP and others who have already powered to the end - well, thanks for your money and hope the next game (EA's TSW maybe?) will be better for you. In the meantime myself (you know - the lowest common denominator) and a few million others will sub and have fun. Will it last? Have to wait and see, won't we? I hope it does.
I want to see the article about the long SWTOR patching times, not properly anouncing server down times, not following the schedule (when it is anounced), long server queues and game crashes. The game is pretty good (much better than WoW anyway), but do not underestimate the support side of business. WoW was successful not only because of the game mechanics, but also as it was the best supported game ever (and still is, as the SWTOR is not up to the game maintenance standard yet). I bet that players will start quiting if the devs won't improve the support in a month or 2. Having the servers down from 16 to 20 hours (Moscow time) is not funny at all - even during the working days, and we are in the middle of hollidays right now. WTF?! We pay to play, not to wait for the servers to be up and then to get into the queue...
Comments
They don't have to turn it into a sandbox game. They could just add game content that adds more depth to the game. There is a way to do that without turning SWTOR into a sandbox.
I agree with almost everything you post, including this. I am not against sandboxing, I actually love it. but you can't compare sandbox to themepark, it's two different beasts. I would love to see some sandbox ideas implemented that would work with the SWTOR game, but creating massive open worlds with nothing on them is not the answer.
~ ~
Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
Dragon Age: Origins - 2009
Dragon Age II - March 10, 2011
If you think for a cold chance in hell mmo players are willing to wait that long for content updates you guys have another thing coming. Bioware is in for a rude awakening when SOME people even thought Trions schedule was slow.
Bioware has 2-3 months at most before people start raging hard for new content.
absolutely and then there comes the aspect of the fail sub only mmo model that makes people wait at least 6 months before any MAJOR expansion is released. People will be leaving soon i am sure.
More story is coming. There are currently 3 acts in the game. There are plans to add more. They have the repeatable character voice actors on contract and are writing content at least 6 months in advance of when it's needed. Next month they are adding a new flashpoint, planet and raid.
The content is coming and it's coming fast. They kept the entire dev team after the game launched when most other MMO's layoff after launch. They are commited to releasing content quickly.
And while at it's very base it's similar to lots of MMO's there is also so much more going for it. And anyone that's played for any length of time would see that.
If even at the end the story stops and you are left with raids, pvp and flashpoints, well, many other MMO's do well with just that and still don't have the options of gameplay and customization that SWTOR has.
Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/
I did buy the game. Are you capable of reading more than the first two lines of text?
The game is fun. But aftering experience the PvP of SWTOR, it's going to get boring come end game. Too boring to be worth a subscription payment, IMO.
Grow up? I did. That's why I yearn for complexity in my games. Perhaps you should grow up and stop dishing out cash for the same old hand-holding epidemic.
sadly the further you go toward end game the more wtered the story get after a while you wonder ?what the?
I tend to agree here.
It does seem a monumantal task to keep the VO quality AND publish stuff fast. But, we gonna see.
Also, yes I too like well placed phasing. Seeing actual changes as results of your doings in WOW just was VERY cool. I never understood why people complained "oh but *I* can't see that". So what? Lets say if a chapter end, some things could and maybe should change in the world. Thats a huge steps of levels; I am level 30 with my Jedi and STILL in chapter 1. I think after a huge story conclusion, some phases could change, and as Teala said, probably the starter planets.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
How are they going to maintain the "Bioware Experience" since they didn't have it in the first place i don't know...
I think it's gamers themselves who are shooting themselves in the foot. More games are being released than ever and now there are MMOs that are continually releasing content and new DLC to extend the original content of games. This is so much more to do then when I was growing up and would only get a few games in a whole year and play them over and over.
When gamers take a week off and play a game for 80 hours within that first week then immediately begin screaming for more, they make it impossible for gaming companies (and regular people) to keep up with their insane demands for content and also produce high-quality content.
I am mystified how people have hit level cap on this game already and still have a life. Between work, holidays spending time with family, preparing for holidays, chores, social life, etc. etc. I have barely had time to get some characters to level 10. And guess what? I am having a great time in the game and not worried at all about the pace of future content because I know I will have plenty of play time ahead of me before I bump up against the wall of having nothing to do anymore. And so far, I have always seen other people around my same level doing stuff and have easily been able to find groups, so I know that not everyone is running around at level cap already. I am guessing this MMO may be a better fit for the casual gamer of the type that WoW attracts, who will level slower and take more time to enjoy the story along the way. Hardcore gamers/speedlevelers will probably find that this is not the best game for them, due to the time requirements for releasing substantial content. That's not Bioware's fault - they are not obligated to make games for every type of gamer, they make games for the people who will appreciate their style of game.
I agree that bioware really need to keep the updates coming to keep subs.. and i doubt they can do it it. But your post here is pretty ignorant, you're totally ignoring these add-ons:
Dragon Age: Origins - Return to Ostagar (Jan 13th 2010)
Dragon Age: Origins - Darkspawn Chronicles (May 18th 2010)
Dragon Age: Origins - Leliana's Song (July 6th 2010)
Dragon Age: Origins - Golems of Amgarrak (Aug 10th 2010)
Dragon Age: Origins - Witch Hunt (Sep 7th 2010)
AND a stand alone expansion:
Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening (March 16th 2010)
By maintaining the Bioware experience they must mean linear corridors, tons of instancing, and as always - numerous and long loading screens (even with hardware firepower), right? Because that's what I see a lot of in SWTOR from levels 1-50. Don't see much else.
I like the game so far, but I do think they may have placed a weight around their necks with the full voice and cinematics, I hope they can keep them going and live up to their claims. But reality wise I cant see this happening.
And I have done hammer station and Esseless countless times and still watch the cinematics and love the conversations. For me it never gets dull.
Of course people won't wait years, and I agree that 2-3 months is the breaking point for showing a "significant" addition to the game post-release. That said, TOR has (had?) a huge staff involved in the game, and assuming they retain most, may just be able to pull it off.
Well the planets are small, so there is little to explore, the crafting is very simplistic and not very useful, the leveling process is far too fast, most will be at end game well before the end of the first month. The space on rails gets tired really fast. What is left to keep people in game? Raiding?
I really doubt we will see much new content any time soon, they spent so much time on the quest process they did not have the time for development elsewhere.
I see no longevity here. Most players will be bored before spring. Reminds me of the Cataclysm update for Wow, of the many who came back to Wow to play it, most were bored by spring.
It all depends when something new hits, I think there will be a big exodus at that time.
So enjoy your time in SWTOR while it lasts, don't imagine you will see any queues at all after the first month.
Or kill sith initiates and acolytes.
Or gather beer as a dwarfman in wow. Or collect crystals as a fegelf in wow. Or try to fix your broken spaceship in wow.
Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server
Thought I would add something besides repeating recycled whines and complaints. Bioware is a savvy company that is fully aware of the wide variety of playstyles and players. They know, for example, that powerlevelers are out there and will do their thing. The rush to endgame players will buy and take off running. Bioware simply bet on a great number of them to BUY the game. The company fully realizes they will not stay and will post away untill the next game. Rinse and repeat but meanwhile Bioware got their money and maybe a few months sub as well. Good enough.
Bioware is counting on more players like myself. I played two preorder betas, early access and now sub for a week. I have one main and he just reached lvl 15 during my first run of Esseles Flashpoint. The only thing that actually reaches the level of a problem is my eagerness to try out the other characters as well, but I intend to stick with my main for now. Bioware knows there are a LOT of players out here just like me. We know that any MMO has things that various players do not like - I found character creation lacking, no appearance tab a bit disappointing, an arcade space game is certainly not my cup of tea and I am still trying to figure out crafting. I am not a "fanboi', nor unmindful of what I believe can be changed or improved.
I do like the game, I am having fun playing and will wait and see what is to come. To the OP and others who have already powered to the end - well, thanks for your money and hope the next game (EA's TSW maybe?) will be better for you. In the meantime myself (you know - the lowest common denominator) and a few million others will sub and have fun. Will it last? Have to wait and see, won't we? I hope it does.
I want to see the article about the long SWTOR patching times, not properly anouncing server down times, not following the schedule (when it is anounced), long server queues and game crashes. The game is pretty good (much better than WoW anyway), but do not underestimate the support side of business. WoW was successful not only because of the game mechanics, but also as it was the best supported game ever (and still is, as the SWTOR is not up to the game maintenance standard yet). I bet that players will start quiting if the devs won't improve the support in a month or 2. Having the servers down from 16 to 20 hours (Moscow time) is not funny at all - even during the working days, and we are in the middle of hollidays right now. WTF?! We pay to play, not to wait for the servers to be up and then to get into the queue...