Limited with a budget in the +$100ish millions, like at least over 2 times the budget of AoC or Aion?
There's something I'm missing here.
Nothing is missing, you're looking for something that was never there in the first place.
You mean features like guild banks or being able to preview a weapon or move around UI frames?
Nope it doesn't have those, but since when have they become the 'industry standards'. Let me get this right, because it was in WoW, and then copied in several of the WoW clones which flopped for sucking so bad, that makes those features now 'industry standards'??
Granted a guild storage facility, oh I dont know, maybe something like a guild hall on some guild planet out there, with a warehouse I can put the junk I dont want...and most likely none of my guild mates will want either. That would be cool sure, but is it a NEEDED thing, no. Just sell the junk you dont want and move on. If its good junk hold on to it and give it to another guild mate who needs or can use. Or give it to an officer who can give it out. SHARE dont horde!. DOing this build social interaction, you know, all that MMO stuff people say they want in these MMO games.
Previewing weapons...ummmhmmm, most definately a NEEDED industry standard thingie here yep. I know I'm so freakin vain that I have to know how pretty my big gun is or I will NEVER use it in public. Who gives a crap what the stats are, or if its actually better than the one I'm using. If it doesn't look cool, screw it, it gets put in the guild bank for some loser that has one that LOOKS worse.
Now hey, I can agree with some on the OPs list. Naming in emote, yes, this one has actually been around in more than 70% of all games out there for the past 5 years. It really is an industry standard, but then again, the shortcuts he is saying are not in because they dont have macros in SW:TOR. And I for one am happy as hell for that one. If it means having to type peoples names out, leave this one out please.
The inventory stacking thing, yup, another industry standard. And I'm not entirely happy with the split and chat combination either. This one, they messed up on and I'll jump on any bandwagon to try and get it fixed. If I right click to send it to my storage facility, I dont want it in 5 different mini stacks, I want it in one big stack. If your going to limit my storage space by slots, then dont force me to take up more than I have to because you forgot to code auto stack into your inventory management features.
The last one I see on the OP list I agree with is the notes on friends and ignore lists. Not exactly a needed function, and in no way an industry standard either. If he came from UO back in 97 like I did, then he probably has his own notebook sitting right next to his mouse, just like we all did, for a VERY long time, through many, many games, for years after UO. Its a great feature, love to see it added, but is it needed or an industry standard, nope. Just a nice thing to have.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Just add it to the list of conveniece things you want to see in the future, none of those items are in my opinion standard. They are considered icing on an already very delicious cake.
Limited with a budget in the +$100ish millions, like at least over 2 times the budget of AoC or Aion?
There's something I'm missing here.
Nothing is missing, you're looking for something that was never there in the first place.
You mean features like guild banks or being able to preview a weapon or move around UI frames?
Nope it doesn't have those, but since when have they become the 'industry standards'. Let me get this right, because it was in WoW, and then copied in several of the WoW clones which flopped for sucking so bad, that makes those features now 'industry standards'??
Who said WoW? I didn't. Look at all others MMO around, good or bad and they all have the features I listed and even fluffy tings like fishing.
Granted a guild storage facility, oh I dont know, maybe something like a guild hall on some guild planet out there, with a warehouse I can put the junk I dont want...and most likely none of my guild mates will want either. That would be cool sure, but is it a NEEDED thing, no. Just sell the junk you dont want and move on. If its good junk hold on to it and give it to another guild mate who needs or can use. Or give it to an officer who can give it out. SHARE dont horde!. DOing this build social interaction, you know, all that MMO stuff people say they want in these MMO game.
No thank you. As a guild officer I certainly don't want to become the guild bank. Guild banks are needed and I dare saying even more: bank sharing between alts is also needed.
Previewing weapons...ummmhmmm, most definately a NEEDED industry standard thingie here yep. I know I'm so freakin vain that I have to know how pretty my big gun is or I will NEVER use it in public. Who gives a crap what the stats are, or if its actually better than the one I'm using. If it doesn't look cool, screw it, it gets put in the guild bank for some loser that has one that LOOKS worse.
If I get it correctly you are fine to buy a weapon then throw it away because the look sucks? Really?
Now hey, I can agree with some on the OPs list. Naming in emote, yes, this one has actually been around in more than 70% of all games out there for the past 5 years. It really is an industry standard, but then again, the shortcuts he is saying are not in because they dont have macros in SW:TOR. And I for one am happy as hell for that one. If it means having to type peoples names out, leave this one out please.
The inventory stacking thing, yup, another industry standard. And I'm not entirely happy with the split and chat combination either. This one, they messed up on and I'll jump on any bandwagon to try and get it fixed. If I right click to send it to my storage facility, I dont want it in 5 different mini stacks, I want it in one big stack. If your going to limit my storage space by slots, then dont force me to take up more than I have to because you forgot to code auto stack into your inventory management features.
The last one I see on the OP list I agree with is the notes on friends and ignore lists. Not exactly a needed function, and in no way an industry standard either. If he came from UO back in 97 like I did, then he probably has his own notebook sitting right next to his mouse, just like we all did, for a VERY long time, through many, many games, for years after UO. Its a great feature, love to see it added, but is it needed or an industry standard, nope. Just a nice thing to have.
Actually apart mostly V.O. and speaking pets TOR has less features than way older MMO and like it or not it's less polished @ launch than what was RIFT nearly a year ago.
Honestly I find it disturbing that some people are accepting MMO to regress.
These missing "standards" are not an issue for the typical fan, it only becomes an issue for them after they get bored of the game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Actually apart mostly V.O. and speaking pets TOR has less features than way older MMO and like it or not it's less polished @ launch than what was RIFT nearly a year ago.
Honestly I find it disturbing that some people are accepting MMO to regress.
It seems to be that if you are the right IP you get a free pass. That is just my recent observation.
Actually apart mostly V.O. and speaking pets TOR has less features than way older MMO and like it or not it's less polished @ launch than what was RIFT nearly a year ago.
Honestly I find it disturbing that some people are accepting MMO to regress.
It seems to be that if you are the right IP you get a free pass. That is just my recent observation.
These two posts are so full of win and truth.
Deewe's closing statement is what worries me the most.
~
Anyway, to the OP and everyone:
Stop being hung up on the term "industry standard"... it's like talking about what the messenger is wearing instead of talking about his actual message. Pointless.
What the OP probably meant was "quality of life features". His analogy about cars is also good. Frankly, I don't know about you, but relatively minor things such as the ones he spoke of ARE industry standard. We should expect these in all MMOs because frankly, guild banks, /emote scripts, ability to swim - all of this should be in the game from the get-go.
It's like constructing a building without features like air vents. It is probably easy to put them in. But why not have them from the start?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Note: Written in the tone of " Love this game, but still room for improvement"
My professional background is U.S. Navy (retired, 21 years, submarine force) - hence the moniker subbob - stands for Submarine Bob. When we did zone inspections, monitored evolutions or conducted drills, our emphasis was on identifying areas for improvement; we did not waste time, space or breath listing all the accolades of what was done right. Such is the case here - what i like about this game is too long to list, but here are some things that need to be fixed. And, quite frankliy I'm at a loss as to why many of them were not present at launch.
3rd Generation? 4th Generation? of MMOs
Honestly not sure how one would categorize how many generations of MMOs we've had now, but it's been 14 years since Ultima Online debuted in 1997. With all of the improvements and lessons learned, it seems many of what I'd consider Industry Standard features are missing from SW:TOR.
Some Basic Missing Functionality
-- No way to add notes or comments to people entries on friends list. This was not there at launch for many previous games either, but it was added over time.
-- Guild functions absent or broken. No ability to send guild mail, member notes are buggy, no guild bank, etc.
-- No way to specify a person's name (selected/targeted person) in a chat command. This is not about macros, this is about ability to facilitate RP and immersion. It is much easier to type "/emote looks at %1 (or %T or %target) and smiles" than it is to try and type some of the long, unpronouncable names in Star Wars.
-- Inventory auto-stacking or lack thereof. This is just poor programming. If you pick up, or harvest, items in the field, those items auto stack up to the 99 limit. BUT, if you buy from GTN, get from email attachments or trade with someone, they do not stack. Likewise, when putting items in your cargo hold, they do not stack. I am a computer programmer - what happens in the field and what happens in these other transactions SHOULD work the same, it should use the same code.
Why Reinvent the Wheel?
Most of the items above were not present in other games at launch time, but they were subsequently added - and became to be expected features of modern day MMOs.
In the end, I'm very consused as to why Bioware did not learn from those other launches and be better from the start. There is something to be said about not repreating the mistakes of others.
Yeah, and Meridian 59 released 1 /2 year before UO with a system rather close to TOR actually. The realm is also a MMO a year before UO. UO did not invent MMOs no matter what you UO vets think, many of us were playing MMOs before 1997.
As for the standard feature list this is really one of the reasons all MMOs are the same today. The reason you want to reinvent the wheel is because we are right now still using a wooden cart wheel and if everyone thought as MMO developers we would still live in caves, even though the caves would look prettier now then before.
I think the other way around, I believe that TOR is using way too many standard solutions as it is. If I wanted to play a game just like Wow I would play Wow.
Note: Written in the tone of " Love this game, but still room for improvement"
My professional background is U.S. Navy (retired, 21 years, submarine force) - hence the moniker subbob - stands for Submarine Bob. When we did zone inspections, monitored evolutions or conducted drills, our emphasis was on identifying areas for improvement; we did not waste time, space or breath listing all the accolades of what was done right. Such is the case here - what i like about this game is too long to list, but here are some things that need to be fixed. And, quite frankliy I'm at a loss as to why many of them were not present at launch.
3rd Generation? 4th Generation? of MMOs
Honestly not sure how one would categorize how many generations of MMOs we've had now, but it's been 14 years since Ultima Online debuted in 1997. With all of the improvements and lessons learned, it seems many of what I'd consider Industry Standard features are missing from SW:TOR.
Some Basic Missing Functionality
-- No way to add notes or comments to people entries on friends list. This was not there at launch for many previous games either, but it was added over time.
-- Guild functions absent or broken. No ability to send guild mail, member notes are buggy, no guild bank, etc.
-- No way to specify a person's name (selected/targeted person) in a chat command. This is not about macros, this is about ability to facilitate RP and immersion. It is much easier to type "/emote looks at %1 (or %T or %target) and smiles" than it is to try and type some of the long, unpronouncable names in Star Wars.
-- Inventory auto-stacking or lack thereof. This is just poor programming. If you pick up, or harvest, items in the field, those items auto stack up to the 99 limit. BUT, if you buy from GTN, get from email attachments or trade with someone, they do not stack. Likewise, when putting items in your cargo hold, they do not stack. I am a computer programmer - what happens in the field and what happens in these other transactions SHOULD work the same, it should use the same code.
Why Reinvent the Wheel?
Most of the items above were not present in other games at launch time, but they were subsequently added - and became to be expected features of modern day MMOs.
In the end, I'm very consused as to why Bioware did not learn from those other launches and be better from the start. There is something to be said about not repreating the mistakes of others.
Yeah, and Meridian 59 released 1 /2 year before UO with a system rather close to TOR actually. The realm is also a MMO a year before UO. UO did not invent MMOs no matter what you UO vets think, many of us were playing MMOs before 1997.
As for the standard feature list this is really one of the reasons all MMOs are the same today. The reason you want to reinvent the wheel is because we are right now still using a wooden cart wheel and if everyone thought as MMO developers we would still live in caves, even though the caves would look prettier now then before.
I think the other way around, I believe that TOR is using way too many standard solutions as it is. If I wanted to play a game just like Wow I would play Wow.
The first part of your post focuses on something utterly irrelevant.
The second part I just can't comprehend. You're holding basic features like UI ones as to why MMOs are clones? Really? When SWTOR has much bigger issues that could be focused on when one wants to talk about MMOs being clones?
I just don't get you people. When the game is accused of being too standard, you all shout back with, "OMG the UI is the same - big deal" and I agree. It's not about the UI. Then when we critique the UI, the same people are now shouting, Games are clones because of the UI; I am glad SWTOR has an incomplete UI!".
What?
Edited for clarity.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
This quote makes a lot of sense actualy, i think TOR was made for the fans of Star Wars and not for mmo gamers.
These guys were talking about being #2 in the US behind WoW. If you think Blizzard will not go after TOR or if you think for a second Trion will not bust out a commercial that says "You are back in this galaxy now" you are crazy.
Bioware needs to get serious and off the high horse. They are patching slower then Blizzard and now it is going from 5 pre launch days...to 8 days after launch and the best they have done is nerf slicing which was making people millions(yes millions).
The game is getting ripped on a few pvp forums with zero dev interaction. All that does is feed the trolls. Do they not want to ackowledge that they screwed up with guild pre placemate and casued imbalances or bolsetering is not wokring as 50's get more geared everyday that passes?
If these feetures were added over time to other games, due to the desires of the player base, why not recognize that need and include such features from the start? That's what evolution is about in game design mechanics; learning from the past and improving the experience.
I cut out all your jabs at my character and focused on your only point.
So you are saying that other games have the right to have time to develop these features but new games should just have them all at launch? Seriously? I find that to be a bit unrealistic at best.
New games will take time to add in features, just like the old ones took time to do so as well.
If these feetures were added over time to other games, due to the desires of the player base, why not recognize that need and include such features from the start? That's what evolution is about in game design mechanics; learning from the past and improving the experience.
I cut out all your jabs at my character and focused on your only point.
So you are saying that other games have the right to have time to develop these features but new games should just have them all at launch? Seriously? I find that to be a bit unrealistic at best.
New games will take time to add in features, just like the old ones took time to do so as well.
I would like to add here too, that not everyone actually likes nor wants all these features that some believe should be included in every game at launch. Just because you include yourself in the crowd that desires something doesn't mean your voice should be heard automatcially over the rest of us. I'm very happy some of the features people are complaining about not being in TOR are not in TOR.
Evolution is moving forward, not 'doing what you have always done' just because it has always been done that way. Just because it has always been done that way doesn't mean it has always been done right. Stop trying to force what you like into the category of being 'standard'. It may very well be what YOU THINK should be there because YOU like it, that doesn't automatically mean everyone else feels the same way.
Let the game developers get feedback from ALL of it's player base, and make the changes that the majority of thier PAYING subscribers want in the game they are playing.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Note: Written in the tone of " Love this game, but still room for improvement"
My professional background is U.S. Navy (retired, 21 years, submarine force) - hence the moniker subbob - stands for Submarine Bob. When we did zone inspections, monitored evolutions or conducted drills, our emphasis was on identifying areas for improvement; we did not waste time, space or breath listing all the accolades of what was done right. Such is the case here - what i like about this game is too long to list, but here are some things that need to be fixed. And, quite frankliy I'm at a loss as to why many of them were not present at launch.
3rd Generation? 4th Generation? of MMOs
Honestly not sure how one would categorize how many generations of MMOs we've had now, but it's been 14 years since Ultima Online debuted in 1997. With all of the improvements and lessons learned, it seems many of what I'd consider Industry Standard features are missing from SW:TOR.
Some Basic Missing Functionality
-- No way to add notes or comments to people entries on friends list. This was not there at launch for many previous games either, but it was added over time.
-- Guild functions absent or broken. No ability to send guild mail, member notes are buggy, no guild bank, etc.
-- No way to specify a person's name (selected/targeted person) in a chat command. This is not about macros, this is about ability to facilitate RP and immersion. It is much easier to type "/emote looks at %1 (or %T or %target) and smiles" than it is to try and type some of the long, unpronouncable names in Star Wars.
-- Inventory auto-stacking or lack thereof. This is just poor programming. If you pick up, or harvest, items in the field, those items auto stack up to the 99 limit. BUT, if you buy from GTN, get from email attachments or trade with someone, they do not stack. Likewise, when putting items in your cargo hold, they do not stack. I am a computer programmer - what happens in the field and what happens in these other transactions SHOULD work the same, it should use the same code.
Why Reinvent the Wheel?
Most of the items above were not present in other games at launch time, but they were subsequently added - and became to be expected features of modern day MMOs.
In the end, I'm very consused as to why Bioware did not learn from those other launches and be better from the start. There is something to be said about not repreating the mistakes of others.
Thanks for your service and I agree with your post
Comments
You mean features like guild banks or being able to preview a weapon or move around UI frames?
Nope it doesn't have those, but since when have they become the 'industry standards'. Let me get this right, because it was in WoW, and then copied in several of the WoW clones which flopped for sucking so bad, that makes those features now 'industry standards'??
Granted a guild storage facility, oh I dont know, maybe something like a guild hall on some guild planet out there, with a warehouse I can put the junk I dont want...and most likely none of my guild mates will want either. That would be cool sure, but is it a NEEDED thing, no. Just sell the junk you dont want and move on. If its good junk hold on to it and give it to another guild mate who needs or can use. Or give it to an officer who can give it out. SHARE dont horde!. DOing this build social interaction, you know, all that MMO stuff people say they want in these MMO games.
Previewing weapons...ummmhmmm, most definately a NEEDED industry standard thingie here yep. I know I'm so freakin vain that I have to know how pretty my big gun is or I will NEVER use it in public. Who gives a crap what the stats are, or if its actually better than the one I'm using. If it doesn't look cool, screw it, it gets put in the guild bank for some loser that has one that LOOKS worse.
Now hey, I can agree with some on the OPs list. Naming in emote, yes, this one has actually been around in more than 70% of all games out there for the past 5 years. It really is an industry standard, but then again, the shortcuts he is saying are not in because they dont have macros in SW:TOR. And I for one am happy as hell for that one. If it means having to type peoples names out, leave this one out please.
The inventory stacking thing, yup, another industry standard. And I'm not entirely happy with the split and chat combination either. This one, they messed up on and I'll jump on any bandwagon to try and get it fixed. If I right click to send it to my storage facility, I dont want it in 5 different mini stacks, I want it in one big stack. If your going to limit my storage space by slots, then dont force me to take up more than I have to because you forgot to code auto stack into your inventory management features.
The last one I see on the OP list I agree with is the notes on friends and ignore lists. Not exactly a needed function, and in no way an industry standard either. If he came from UO back in 97 like I did, then he probably has his own notebook sitting right next to his mouse, just like we all did, for a VERY long time, through many, many games, for years after UO. Its a great feature, love to see it added, but is it needed or an industry standard, nope. Just a nice thing to have.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Yes, exactly - implication that /input feature/ should be there since launch. It should not.
He left out the good stuff. The rest is pretty funny. Just enjoy the show I know I am.
Just add it to the list of conveniece things you want to see in the future, none of those items are in my opinion standard. They are considered icing on an already very delicious cake.
Kaocan - Thanks for the very thoughtful analysis and response; among the best so far. I appreciate the feedback.
Actually apart mostly V.O. and speaking pets TOR has less features than way older MMO and like it or not it's less polished @ launch than what was RIFT nearly a year ago.
Honestly I find it disturbing that some people are accepting MMO to regress.
These missing "standards" are not an issue for the typical fan, it only becomes an issue for them after they get bored of the game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
It seems to be that if you are the right IP you get a free pass. That is just my recent observation.
These two posts are so full of win and truth.
Deewe's closing statement is what worries me the most.
~
Anyway, to the OP and everyone:
Stop being hung up on the term "industry standard"... it's like talking about what the messenger is wearing instead of talking about his actual message. Pointless.
What the OP probably meant was "quality of life features". His analogy about cars is also good. Frankly, I don't know about you, but relatively minor things such as the ones he spoke of ARE industry standard. We should expect these in all MMOs because frankly, guild banks, /emote scripts, ability to swim - all of this should be in the game from the get-go.
It's like constructing a building without features like air vents. It is probably easy to put them in. But why not have them from the start?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Yeah, and Meridian 59 released 1 /2 year before UO with a system rather close to TOR actually. The realm is also a MMO a year before UO. UO did not invent MMOs no matter what you UO vets think, many of us were playing MMOs before 1997.
As for the standard feature list this is really one of the reasons all MMOs are the same today. The reason you want to reinvent the wheel is because we are right now still using a wooden cart wheel and if everyone thought as MMO developers we would still live in caves, even though the caves would look prettier now then before.
I think the other way around, I believe that TOR is using way too many standard solutions as it is. If I wanted to play a game just like Wow I would play Wow.
This quote makes a lot of sense actualy, i think TOR was made for the fans of Star Wars and not for mmo gamers.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
The first part of your post focuses on something utterly irrelevant.
The second part I just can't comprehend. You're holding basic features like UI ones as to why MMOs are clones? Really? When SWTOR has much bigger issues that could be focused on when one wants to talk about MMOs being clones?
I just don't get you people. When the game is accused of being too standard, you all shout back with, "OMG the UI is the same - big deal" and I agree. It's not about the UI. Then when we critique the UI, the same people are now shouting, Games are clones because of the UI; I am glad SWTOR has an incomplete UI!".
What?
Edited for clarity.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
These guys were talking about being #2 in the US behind WoW. If you think Blizzard will not go after TOR or if you think for a second Trion will not bust out a commercial that says "You are back in this galaxy now" you are crazy.
Bioware needs to get serious and off the high horse. They are patching slower then Blizzard and now it is going from 5 pre launch days...to 8 days after launch and the best they have done is nerf slicing which was making people millions(yes millions).
The game is getting ripped on a few pvp forums with zero dev interaction. All that does is feed the trolls. Do they not want to ackowledge that they screwed up with guild pre placemate and casued imbalances or bolsetering is not wokring as 50's get more geared everyday that passes?
I cut out all your jabs at my character and focused on your only point.
So you are saying that other games have the right to have time to develop these features but new games should just have them all at launch? Seriously? I find that to be a bit unrealistic at best.
New games will take time to add in features, just like the old ones took time to do so as well.
I would like to add here too, that not everyone actually likes nor wants all these features that some believe should be included in every game at launch. Just because you include yourself in the crowd that desires something doesn't mean your voice should be heard automatcially over the rest of us. I'm very happy some of the features people are complaining about not being in TOR are not in TOR.
Evolution is moving forward, not 'doing what you have always done' just because it has always been done that way. Just because it has always been done that way doesn't mean it has always been done right. Stop trying to force what you like into the category of being 'standard'. It may very well be what YOU THINK should be there because YOU like it, that doesn't automatically mean everyone else feels the same way.
Let the game developers get feedback from ALL of it's player base, and make the changes that the majority of thier PAYING subscribers want in the game they are playing.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Please, you think they had budget to pay for more then just VA?
Thanks for your service and I agree with your post
I self identify as a monkey.