Footsteps On The Ground

UtukuMoon · December 2011

This game just gets better and better imo.I am on my phone so i cant do a direct link but here it is anyway.

http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/12/archeage-kr-new-feature-to-deter.html?m=1

Loke666 · December 2011

Actually a pretty smart system.

tom_gore · December 2011

It's a shortcut, but better than nothing of course.

The way they _should_ do it is to add a skill/profession for Forensics, like UO had. Certain players could then dedicate themselves to hunting down these criminals and putting them to jail, by examining crime scenes and collecting evidence, which would let them to eventually identify the thief at sight and give them kill rights (if thieves are not hidden allowed by default).

While waiting, they should _definitely_ add a feature where anyone directly witnessing the theft could report it for a lot more than 1 penalty point.

solarine · December 2011

Originally posted by tom_gore
It's a shortcut, but better than nothing of course.

The way they _should_ do it is to add a skill/profession for Forensics, like UO had. Certain players could then dedicate themselves to hunting down these criminals and putting them to jail, by examining crime scenes and collecting evidence, which would let them to eventually identify the thief at sight and give them kill rights (if thieves are not hidden allowed by default).

While waiting, they should _definitely_ add a feature where anyone directly witnessing the theft could report it for a lot more than 1 penalty point.

I like the system they're implementing, but the above suggestion is just cool. You can make tracking or forensics a skill everybody can have, but make it hard to skill up with maybe even some "special unlockable / randomdrop tracking abilities" - so that not all players would be able to track all thefts... While there will be a few reputed "detectives" that can crack pretty much any theft.

Also agree about the witness system part.

0guz · December 2011

100 theft for jail won't deter anyone i guess

Teala · December 2011

I think once the thief is identified people should be able to place a bounty on the players head. Wanted posters should go up on a bounty board. That would allow anyone that reads the bounty board the ability to go after the thief or even a pk'er.

BlackUhuru · December 2011

Originally posted by 0guz
100 theft for jail won't deter anyone i guess

They don't want to deter players from stealing, it's a big part of the game and advocates open world PvP.

In order to steal resources you have to cross the seas (try to avoid enemy ships) and sneak around enemy continent (try to avoid enemy players) and find player made villages and housing with player made trees,plants and live stock.

To me this is what PvP is suppose to be, a part of everyday life in the world and not just some instanced mini game.

Greymoor · December 2011

I think they should also implement a simular system MO tried to do, 'hidden criminal'. So once a theif has stolen something they're secretly flagged as up for PvP, therefore giving no penalty if someone kills them. This would allow owners/friends to simply kill thieves they see without jail risk.

Vesavius · December 2011

Originally posted by Sylvarii

This game just gets better and better imo.I am on my phone so i cant do a direct link but here it is anyway. http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/12/archeage-kr-new-feature-to-deter.html?m=1

Eh? So thieves *might* generate a footstep when they steal off your property, and 100 of those *maybe* footsteps = a gaol sentence? That seems pretty pathetic and no protection at all for the farmer. At least give every player a 'tracker' skill so that every theft can be identified or whatever. Everything I am seeing is so on side with the ganker, helping them to destroy yet another game

This game seems determined to kill off any chance that anyone interested in building and farming isnt frustrated into rage quitting within a month (with the gankers then ofc leaving themselves a month later when they have driven off all the non gankers under complaints of the game being 'dead' and there being no one to 'PvP')

(And no... before everyone gets excited.... a ganker isn't the same as a PvPer. PvPers have my respect.)

Dewm · December 2011

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Sylvarii

This game just gets better and better imo.I am on my phone so i cant do a direct link but here it is anyway. http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/12/archeage-kr-new-feature-to-deter.html?m=1

Eh? So thieves *might* generate a footstep when they steal off your property, and 100 of those *maybe* footsteps = a gaol sentence? That seems pretty pathetic and no protection at all for the farmer. At least give every player a 'tracker' skill so that every theft can be identified or whatever. Everything I am seeing is so on side with the ganker, helping them to destroy yet another game

This game seems determined to kill off any chance that anyone interested in building and farming isnt frustrated into rage quitting within a month (with the gankers then ofc leaving themselves a month later when they have driven off all the non gankers under complaints of the game being 'dead' and there being no one to 'PvP')

(And no... before everyone gets excited.... a ganker isn't the same as a PvPer. PvPers have my respect.)

Yeah I kinda had the same opinion, I mean say footprints show up 50% of the time that still means you could steal stuff 200 times before you get sent to jail.

And lets say out of thos 100 footprints only 50% of those people even bothered "tracking them"

250-300 items stolen. And then they say "get sent to jail" is that a hour? a day? a week? 3 weeks?

Even so you could just jump on a alt.

If they keep this current system it will be better to either A. not farm B. join a giant guild or C. go to a super remote location.

I dunno... I do see alot of rage/quite happening.

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I do like the general idea of "tracking" but it should be something like this: footprints show up 100% of the time, you can only track footprints if you are a tracking class/skill, after being "tracked" 25 times your whole account gets banned for a day.

Or something of that effect, Or maybe your account gets banned for a week, and you can "get out of jail" by paying a bounty-in game.

Dewm · December 2011

Originally posted by Baggs

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Sylvarii

This game just gets better and better imo.I am on my phone so i cant do a direct link but here it is anyway. http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/12/archeage-kr-new-feature-to-deter.html?m=1

Eh? So thieves *might* generate a footstep when they steal off your property, and 100 of those *maybe* footsteps = a gaol sentence? That seems pretty pathetic and no protection at all for the farmer. At least give every player a 'tracker' skill so that every theft can be identified or whatever. Everything I am seeing is so on side with the ganker, helping them to destroy yet another game

This game seems determined to kill off any chance that anyone interested in building and farming isnt frustrated into rage quitting within a month (with the gankers then ofc leaving themselves a month later when they have driven off all the non gankers under complaints of the game being 'dead' and there being no one to 'PvP')

(And no... before everyone gets excited.... a ganker isn't the same as a PvPer. PvPers have my respect.)

The thief is going to steal from A LOT of players, not just you. So its fair imo.

Plus I learned today that if you put a scarecrow where your trees are, you choose if you want to allow others to be able to gather your resources.

Not sure how this works, or where to get the scarecrow in the first place but I wouldn't worry so much about the game's features atm.

XLGAMES releases a different patch every week of the beta and also smaller ones during the week, so the game is changing constantly.

For example, you no longer pay for skill respecs or upgrades. Nothing is set on stone yet and I like the frequent changes they are making. It means they care enough and that they are willing to test stuff out throroughly before deciding on how a feature or game mechanic is going to work on retail.

I havn't played the game yet (duh) but I would disagree with you.

lets say I am playing with just a couple of friends, we decide to go out to the middle of no-where and build a small "town" AKA 3-5 houses. And I start farming, But two months down the road, a large guild (30-50 ppl) decide to build their castle 15 minutes away, Well I garantee any good guild will have there "expert" and "dedicaded" theifs, Well all of a sudden my little farm/village is a prime target, to get attacked over and over and over....untill finally I move.

Vesavius · December 2011

Originally posted by Baggs

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Baggs

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Sylvarii

This game just gets better and better imo.I am on my phone so i cant do a direct link but here it is anyway. http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/12/archeage-kr-new-feature-to-deter.html?m=1

Eh? So thieves *might* generate a footstep when they steal off your property, and 100 of those *maybe* footsteps = a gaol sentence? That seems pretty pathetic and no protection at all for the farmer. At least give every player a 'tracker' skill so that every theft can be identified or whatever. Everything I am seeing is so on side with the ganker, helping them to destroy yet another game

This game seems determined to kill off any chance that anyone interested in building and farming isnt frustrated into rage quitting within a month (with the gankers then ofc leaving themselves a month later when they have driven off all the non gankers under complaints of the game being 'dead' and there being no one to 'PvP')

(And no... before everyone gets excited.... a ganker isn't the same as a PvPer. PvPers have my respect.)

The thief is going to steal from A LOT of players, not just you. So its fair imo.

Plus I learned today that if you put a scarecrow where your trees are, you choose if you want to allow others to be able to gather your resources.

Not sure how this works, or where to get the scarecrow in the first place but I wouldn't worry so much about the game's features atm.

XLGAMES releases a different patch every week of the beta and also smaller ones during the week, so the game is changing constantly.

For example, you no longer pay for skill respecs or upgrades. Nothing is set on stone yet and I like the frequent changes they are making. It means they care enough and that they are willing to test stuff out throroughly before deciding on how a feature or game mechanic is going to work on retail.

I havn't played the game yet (duh) but I would disagree with you.

lets say I am playing with just a couple of friends, we decide to go out to the middle of no-where and build a small "town" AKA 3-5 houses. And I start farming, But two months down the road, a large guild (30-50 ppl) decide to build their castle 15 minutes away, Well I garantee any good guild will have there "expert" and "dedicaded" theifs, Well all of a sudden my little farm/village is a prime target, to get attacked over and over and over....untill finally I move.

Its not like DarkFall, where you can be perma red and still play the game. In ArcheAge, you go to jail, you can't use your skills or anything and your character is useless until you're out. Either the legit way or if you manage to escape.

Early on there was talk of a 'Red' city on the 3rd isle and that these guys would be basically a 3rd faction of outlaws. Has this changed?

Have you got a link to where you got your info on the gaol please? or for more info on what being red means now in general? I am interested in reading more.

Dewm · December 2011

Originally posted by Baggs

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Baggs

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Sylvarii

This game just gets better and better imo.I am on my phone so i cant do a direct link but here it is anyway. http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/12/archeage-kr-new-feature-to-deter.html?m=1

Eh? So thieves *might* generate a footstep when they steal off your property, and 100 of those *maybe* footsteps = a gaol sentence? That seems pretty pathetic and no protection at all for the farmer. At least give every player a 'tracker' skill so that every theft can be identified or whatever. Everything I am seeing is so on side with the ganker, helping them to destroy yet another game

This game seems determined to kill off any chance that anyone interested in building and farming isnt frustrated into rage quitting within a month (with the gankers then ofc leaving themselves a month later when they have driven off all the non gankers under complaints of the game being 'dead' and there being no one to 'PvP')

(And no... before everyone gets excited.... a ganker isn't the same as a PvPer. PvPers have my respect.)

The thief is going to steal from A LOT of players, not just you. So its fair imo.

Plus I learned today that if you put a scarecrow where your trees are, you choose if you want to allow others to be able to gather your resources.

Not sure how this works, or where to get the scarecrow in the first place but I wouldn't worry so much about the game's features atm.

XLGAMES releases a different patch every week of the beta and also smaller ones during the week, so the game is changing constantly.

For example, you no longer pay for skill respecs or upgrades. Nothing is set on stone yet and I like the frequent changes they are making. It means they care enough and that they are willing to test stuff out throroughly before deciding on how a feature or game mechanic is going to work on retail.

I havn't played the game yet (duh) but I would disagree with you.

lets say I am playing with just a couple of friends, we decide to go out to the middle of no-where and build a small "town" AKA 3-5 houses. And I start farming, But two months down the road, a large guild (30-50 ppl) decide to build their castle 15 minutes away, Well I garantee any good guild will have there "expert" and "dedicaded" theifs, Well all of a sudden my little farm/village is a prime target, to get attacked over and over and over....untill finally I move.

Its not like DarkFall, where you can be perma red and still play the game. In ArcheAge, you go to jail, you can't use your skills or anything and your character is useless until you're out. Either the legit way or if you manage to escape.

I haven't ended up in jail yet but one of my friends has, I'll ask him later and let you know what the deal with it is.

According to your example above though, you assume that the large guild will have any benefit by stealing your limited resources instead of farming their own and being rewarded for it.

So why would they go out of their way and get penalized?

Sure the occasional ganker / thief will pass by and grab your stuff or PK you but I believe you should be able to handle that.

ArcheAge is really similar to the way high security space in EvE works. You're relatively safe to do your thing, but if someone wants to harm you, there's ways to do it.

You should also keep in mind that these resources take a little less than 5-6 hours to fully regen, so even if someone cuts down all your trees, you'll have new ones in place after a few hours.

Now if you're being griefed, or constantly being robbed, then you might be in need of hiring mercenaries to guard you.

Since you said you're not interested in engaging in PVP, pay others to do the dirty job for you. Who knows, we might actually see "Anti-PK" guilds make a comeback into the MMO scene. I haven't seen one since 2005.

Since I haven't played yet I can't really speak from expeirence. But I do speak from past game knowledge... And in that example that I gave you.. The guild might not benifit that much from stealing my stuff, But that has never stopped ppl before. I mean in WoW people just chill and gank people for hours...and they don't get anything from it..why do they do it? because they can.

And in the same instance if a guild of 50 ppl has 4 that are theifs and stealing my stuff... then I would get taken for a ride.

Either way this is all hypothetical. Untill the game comes out we won't know. But I do know from past game expeirence. So yeah..

And as far as the PVP goes, I am looking forward to that, And I will be a part of it. But I also have a family and a job, so there will probably be at least 18-20 hours out of the day I can't "defend" my stuff.

Manasu · December 2011

A small parenthesis to your discussion here, as I saw someone talking about jail. I advise you to watch a very interesting video that Amate recorded during his hard hour in jail. It's really interesting - and I also remember reading that if you are found guilty at the course you are sent to jail for 30 minutes (don't take it for granted though).

And for my opinion to your disccusion, well firstly I have to say that by giving freedom to players you also give them the free chance to abuse it. In some games this have no penalty, but in AA they try to introduce one in a very smart way as Loke666 already said. And anyway, for all those that don't really like all this situation, they can stay at the first 2 continents and build their settlements over there - they are going to be more protected. Thus they will lose the benefits from the 3rd continent, so if they have the guts - or the patience- to establish over there it means that the real and fair PvP starts.

Dewm · December 2011

Originally posted by Manasu
A small parenthesis to your discussion here, as I saw someone talking about jail. I advise you to watch a very interesting video that Amate recorded during his hard hour in jail. It's really interesting - and I also remember reading that if you are found guilty at the course you are sent to jail for 30 minutes (don't take it for granted though).

And for my opinion to your disccusion, well firstly I have to say that by giving freedom to players you also give them the free chance to abuse it. In some games this have no penalty, but in AA they try to introduce one in a very smart way as Loke666 already said. And anyway, for all those that don't really like all this situation, they can stay at the first 2 continents and build their settlements over there - they are going to be more protected. Thus they will lose the benefits from the 3rd continent, so if they have the guts - or the patience- to establish over there it means that the real and fair PvP starts.

Hmmm, cool vid. Didn't really show anything pertinant to this convo....but still cool. Thanks!

And as far as the rest of it goes.. you said you go to jail for 30 minutes? why can't you log out for those 30 minutes and get on a alt?

I dunno, with this kind of punishment system even I wouldn't bother doing the footsteps thingies.....its just pointless.

But like i've said a few times. We'll just have to see how it plays out. If we get a community like I had in FFXI, everything should be awesome.

But if we get a community like we had in Darkfall.....then these sort of things will be a problem...

Vesavius · January 2012

Originally posted by Dewm
But like i've said a few times. We'll just have to see how it plays out. If we get a community like I had in FFXI, everything should be awesome.

But if we get a community like we had in Darkfall.....then these sort of things will be a problem...

I suspect the latter will be true, which is a shame.

PvE game and PvP games seem to attract very different cultures and thats what, IMO, will kill AA in the West on a mass scale.

It's a shame really... we need it to be as popular as possible so that more games like this are made.

Asheram · January 2012

When I read about this I was thinking more needed to be implemented other than just chance for the thief to get a penalty point,something like others have mentioned ,a way for the robbed player to track his goods and the opportunity to get them back somehow either by force or steal them back the same way they were stolen from them.

Dewm · January 2012

Originally posted by Asheram
When I read about this I was thinking more needed to be implemented other than just chance for the thief to get a penalty point,something like others have mentioned ,a way for the robbed player to track his goods and the opportunity to get them back somehow either by force or steal them back the same way they were stolen from them.

Yeah exactly. From what I read...from what this sounds like...

someone steals stuff from your place (whether it be resources or something from a chest?(not sure on the chest part) And after they steal something there is a "chance" that they will leave footprints, then IF you decide to research those footprints, after 100 people do that...they get 30 minutes in jail? which they could switch to an alt in that time period. Or (as that vid shows) they can run around the prision and collect garb.

Eitherway it's so small... I wouldn't even think twice about stealing stuff.

Dewm · January 2012

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Dewm
But like i've said a few times. We'll just have to see how it plays out. If we get a community like I had in FFXI, everything should be awesome.

But if we get a community like we had in Darkfall.....then these sort of things will be a problem...

I suspect the latter will be true, which is a shame.

PvE game and PvP games seem to attract very different cultures and thats what, IMO, will kill AA in the West on a mass scale.

It's a shame really... we need it to be as popular as possible so that more games like this are made.

Tell me about it. I'll probably end up buying a couple if not three box's just to up sales.. do my part. Try and save the genre...you know.

tom_gore · January 2012

Stop comparing this game to Darkfall. That game has retarded developers and a tiny budget.

Thieves stealing your crops? Maybe you will...

... move to another place, closer to lawful zones and hope there are less thieves there.

... track down the thief with your friends and kill him.

... hire a guild to hunt down the thief or guard your property.

Honesty people. Do you really expect the developer will let an issue like this ruin the whole game? They will tune the consequences of thieving and player killing until it is only viable for those who are willing to risk a lot.

Yes there will be thieves and yes there will be player killing. There will also be relatively safe zones where the risk of getting PKd is minimal or non-existent. The choice is yours. With more risk becomes more reward. This is pretty much how EVE works and I would assume the risk vs. reward theme will also strong be in ArcheAge.

Some of you have just been spoiled with the western themepark MMOs where you can have everything and not risk anything. Nobody forces you to play ArcheAge if you want to remain spoiled.

Dewm · January 2012

Originally posted by tom_gore
Stop comparing this game to Darkfall. That game has retarded developers and a tiny budget.

Explain to me what a retarded developer and a tiny budget have to do with the community?

Thieves stealing your crops? Maybe you will...

... move to another place, closer to lawful zones and hope there are less thieves there.

..maybe, but maybe you don't want to move? maybe its to expensive to move your whole house?

... track down the thief with your friends and kill him.

Yes, I suppose. If you have enough time to track his footprints, find out who he is, and some how find out where in the world he is? and then hope he isn't 10 levels ahead of you?

... hire a guild to hunt down the thief or guard your property.

But i'm broke because he stole all of my crap?

Honesty people. Do you really expect the developer will let an issue like this ruin the whole game? They will tune the consequences of thieving and player killing until it is only viable for those who are willing to risk a lot

Part of the tuning process is people asking questions, even more so the people in the beta.

Yes there will be thieves and yes there will be player killing. There will also be relatively safe zones where the risk of getting PKd is minimal or non-existent. The choice is yours. With more risk becomes more reward. This is pretty much how EVE works and I would assume the risk vs. reward theme will also strong be in ArcheAgl

Its a little diffrent in EVE, last time I checked in EVE your ship didn't stay floating around while you were logged off, So apples to oranges.

Some of you have just been spoiled with the western themepark MMOs where you can have everything and not risk anything. Nobody forces you to play ArcheAge if you want to remain spoiled.

Play original FFXI for 2 years and tell me about being spoiled.

I'm really not trying to start a argument here, But you make it sound like such a none issue...well in the most recent sandbox game we have to compaire to (darkfall) it is an issue. And if it is such a none-issue then why have the devs spent any time making the whole footprint thing to begein with?

It IS an issue.

Now I am a huge fan of this game, do not get me wrong. I love the way this is shaping up. BUT one thing that does piss me off are people like you who are such huge fanbois that the Devs can't do anything wrong...and nothing needs to be questioned.

Well go talk to the crowd over in the FFXIV forum and ask them how that worked. I was in the alpha's and the beta's for that game, and the whole time I was like "what about this, what about that" and people were like "its no big deal, they'll fix it in the retail version... don't worry about it its only alpha" well guess what happened with that game?

tom_gore · January 2012

Originally posted by Dewm

Its a little diffrent in EVE, last time I checked in EVE your ship didn't stay floating around while you were logged off, So apples to oranges.

Apparently you haven't heard of sovereignty and PoSes? The further you get in EVE, the more you have to defend, both online and offline. Granted, you cannot really own much to defend by yourself, you need a corp and can the hope someone else is online to defend your assets.

But nothing will stop you for bunching your houses and farms in together with your guild and protecting them from theft together.

I'm really not trying to start a argument here, But you make it sound like such a none issue...well in the most recent sandbox game we have to compaire to (darkfall) it is an issue. And if it is such a none-issue then why have the devs spent any time making the whole footprint thing to begein with?

It IS an issue.

It is an issue if the developers let it be an issue. I already said Darkfall has got a retarded development team and that indirectly affects the playerbase too. If you give griefers freedom to roam unchecked, they will flock to your game and drive all the others away. That's what has happened to Darkfall. The Developers could have prevented that, but they chose to go the hardcore FFA Full Loot PvP route and here we are.

As far as I know, ArcheAge will not have full loot so that's already one problem out. I would also assume the world is designed so that certain areas will be safer than others, whereas the only relatively safe spots in Darkfall are the towns and their immediate vicinity.

Of course it might turn out that they will also design ArcheAge to appeal to the griefers and let them roam unchecked. That's their loss then and the game will drop in the same heap with DF and MO, albeit I would probably still try it out, if the technical side was good (and by the looks of it, it just might).

Amate · January 2012

Guys guys, pause! Before you like or hate the system (because honestly it can't please everyone), you need to know how it works. All of you seems to have incomplete information.

You can only steal ressources that are "planted" in the open field. Meaning you can't steal from someone's house or plantations that have a scarecrow set up (you get those from a quest atm)

The only reason you will plant out of those are when you need large amount of ressources. It's only normal that there is a risk for larger amounts.

Lastly, whoever was it that was bashing "gankers"/"PvPers" or whatever you wanna call it, you think PvErs are any better? They ruin games too. If you only want PvE you should stop following ArcheAge right now. Jake Song wants to create a game rich features-wise. That means both PvP and PvE is needed. Variety is something this game offers, and a pure Pv"something" wouldn't offer.

Dewm · January 2012

Originally posted by Amate
Guys guys, pause! Before you like or hate the system (because honestly it can't please everyone), you need to know how it works. All of you seems to have incomplete information.

You can only steal ressources that are "planted" in the open field. Meaning you can't steal from someone's house or plantations that have a scarecrow set up (you get those from a quest atm)

The only reason you will plant out of those are when you need large amount of ressources. It's only normal that there is a risk for larger amounts.

Lastly, whoever was it that was bashing "gankers"/"PvPers" or whatever you wanna call it, you think PvErs are any better? They ruin games too. If you only want PvE you should stop following ArcheAge right now. Jake Song wants to create a game rich features-wise. That means both PvP and PvE is needed. Variety is something this game offers, and a pure Pv"something" wouldn't offer.

Good information! that changes things alot.

And as far as the second part of the most, I couldn't agree more. And as far as I go I would love a good PVP game. But there is a diffrence betwean a PVP game and a game for gankers *cough*darkfall*cough*

Side note: Any information you beta testers want to give us would be great. Because without you guys we are out here talking about nothing!

P.S. thanks Betacake! who'ever made that first vid, did not specifie that it was 1 point per footprint, But that deffinitly makes a diffrence.

0guz · January 2012

Originally posted by Baggs
Yesterday I did an experiment.

I planted 100 trees but never intended to harvest them.

The seeds cost me a little over 2 gold coins. Silly amount, if you consider your "normal" mount costs 10g and the smallest house deed costs 6g.

So I logged in and saw the trees missing. Then I started counting the footprint I found, they were about 30.

That's 30 vilain points for the thief. Now he's got just 70 left, which means if he robs another 3 people, he's 100% going to trial and will end up in jail.

The wood he stole from me was merely enough for crafting the lowest tier boat, the speed boat.

So imo, its totally fair.

how long does he stay in the prison and what is the punishment for him?

Dewm · January 2012

From a prevous vid. They will stay in prision for 30 minutes.

Which seems a little light, but they can only steal planted resources...so I suppose its not that bad. I wonder if there prision sentences can stack?

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