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Would it be so difficult to make the PvP more meaningful?
Yamota
Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
There has been several vocal complaints about this game's PvP being really pointless and I wonder if Bioware couldn't just spend some time to make it more meaningful. Because the setting is right there.
For example, this planet where you are supposed to fight the other side on. Why not make the victories there more persistent? E.g. you do some objectives and then you actually control that zone and whatever resources are there and then the other side have to wrestle the control from you.
Even warzones could be changed to add some meaning. For example that warzone where you are supposed to activate cannons to take down the enemy ship. Why not connect the outcome of that warzone to actually flip some persistant areas which contains some value.
I mean the framework is there, it just feels like Bioware doesn't give a damn about PvP which is a shame.
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It is a shame, and I agree with you but as I stated in a prior thread, for some reason PVE and PVP, as it appears to me, seems to be something difficult for gaming companies to create. Mabye Bioware simply does not know how to make a PVP game, so they concentrated on PVE. Its almost like PVP was added as a break from the PVE portion of the game.
I think it is sad because there is nothing I enjoy more then choices in games. Today I want to play PVE tomorrow, PVP (but PVP done well, as you state above.)
I wonder, are there any games out there that do both PVE and PVP together well?
and more to do with the crappy graphics engine.
Additions like that would be truly awesome and I'd be willing to wait on them for a while because stuff like that would take time to implement. There are a few more urgent and simple things which should be addressed first and sooner though;
- Tuning down npc guards: make them assist defending players rather than replace them. Right now they are the godly, one shotting kind, putting every player to shame in the dps department.
- PVP quests on shared worlds on pvp servers; we have repeatable quests for warzones, heck, even for space-on-rails, yet the only world pvp quest I got was at level 40 to discover (the completely deserted) outlaw's den area on Tatooine.
- Small rewards for open-world player kills of around your level or higher: a small amount of valor or maybe a single mecenary token; as of now killing a player in the open world doesn't credit you in any way.
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WAR imo. However, there was always an issue with not having enough players from one of the factions, therefore, most of the time one faction was always facerolling the other faction. I don't know how the end-game PvP is doing at this time since I am not playing WAR anymore.
What themepark mmo has meaningfull pvp?
Its just a feature the themepark community doesnt want, they dont want to be ganked or griefed and most dont even want to be challenged by other players.
There are games out now and on the horizon for players seeking meaningfull pvp but TOR just isnt one atm but who knows....if at the end of the day EA isnt satisfied with the number of subs the casual route takes them they will jump ship in a hurry for $$.
Not sure if DAoC was considered a Themepark but it had somewhat meaningful PvP as it gave bonuses and allowed guilds to own keeps.
AoC allows you to build keeps and then attack other keeps so it has some limited meaning as well. WAR allowed you to invade the opposite sides capital if you locked down some keeps.
So it is possible to have somewhat meaningful PvP in Themeparks. But currently it seems the PvP in SW:TOR is completely meaningless, which is a shame. And no I dont consider getting PvP levels/gears as meaningful PvP.
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So i guess i am in the minority who doesn't care about rewards associated with PVP and enjoy it purely because i get to compete against other players? maybe.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
The question is not about rewards but rather to add some world persistant objectives to the PvP to add some meaning. If not then why not just play an FPS or arena based PvP which is not persistant at all?
MMORPG PvP has the potential to be more than just kill the other guy.
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This, this, and more this.
Somehow, somewhere, someone decided at Bioware that they would be using this "Hero" engine.... there is probably an interesting story behind it all - but it was an awful decision... the engine is a zero.
yes you are... after awhile people need some incentive to plug hours and hours into PVP.. Even COD got that concept adding in leveling and such to modern warfare.. Doesn't matter if people don't care for PVP or can preach this is a PVE game all day long at end game you generally have two options in these types games.. Raiding or PVP.. for me PVP is a ton more fun but is only fun to an extent unless there is some incentive some conflict some reward for pounding away hour after hour killing people.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
No matter what changes you do to over all PVP design in the end it is about killing what is red to you and competitive excitement that comes along with it.
I played DAOC for years and even WAR for good one year and never cared for the rewards but to test myself against other players and see where i stand.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
There might be a few games but it's all preference.
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P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
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i got to say i agree just adding the (you need to have won this fight to be able to defeat boos would be a nice idea but as we saw in wow tol barad it doesnt work people just lose on purpose!so it needs to be something that has to happen while your raiding and while your pvping if not the two happen you cant finish whatever you do!i dont know how to implement it but there has got to be a way!
We have already seen level 50 players killing guards, so this one shottings is only an issue for low level players.
I don't see anything wrong with this. Of course if level 50 players were 1 shotted it would be different.
Pvp is not that great in this game, hence a lot of people have no interest or have waning interest. Therefore making it have some effect on the world for pve players is not a good idea at all. Pvp and pve is a seperate animal. How would pvpers feel if the pvp was changed by something the pve players did.
I play pvp and the game gets very laggy and unresponsive. I have a great computer and connection so I'm gonna think it's on their end. Then the pvp is terrible because of level imbalance. You have level 11s thrown into shark infested waters, ie level 50s who eat them alive. Sure the 11s get buffed, but they don't have all the abilities so they are very limited.
Second thing that irritates me is there is no changing warzone?!!! No choice. Huttball sucks although the idea is interesting. I get the ball they lag me out with all the force lightning or something, hold me in the air while they beat the crap out of me. Can't throw the ball because I'm stunned I guess, but the skill icon is not active.
The only reason I pvp is to get some of the blues because they have nicer stats and look good. Sometimes I only have limited amount of time to play and pvp is quick in/out. But between the lag and stuns and not choosing your warzone and level imbalance I wouldn't make any design decisions based on pvp as it seems pretty weak to me.
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Outside of DAoC I cannot think of any.
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so because most other MMOs failed at this we should just accept it and move on? I see sounds good
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Themeparks , DAoC being the sole exception, are pve gear treadmills. You'll never have meaningful pvp in a gear treadmill. Meaningful pvp requires balance, the risk of loss, and either direct or indirect participation of the whole community. People will not accept the chance of losing months of progression in a single encounter. Level multipliers and mudflation destroy any hope for open participation. Balancing classes for pvp results in pure pve'rs complaining that pvp nerfs ruin pve.
The best you can hope for is instanced pvp with point based leaderboards. Yay points.
The thing is that even after Bioware adds rewards to player kills and adds capturable objectives that have some kind of benefit for those that hold it (two very important features that Bioware must add before the end of the 1st month), the game will still have the same major issue a lot of these faction oriented games have...
Faction Imbalance.
I am already hearing that some servers have a faction imbalance of 3:1 or even 4:1, which is absurd. Being a 2 faction game, really doesn't help, because once 1 faction has the advantage, there's really not much to prevent them from keeping the advantage and then the game is just not fun for those being farmed and the farmers will get bored of not being challenged. So even if Bioware eventually adds meaning to the open world PvP, the faction imbalance will be another issue they'll have to overcome.
It's really sad that more MMO devs cannot understand, why MMO veterans proclaim DAoC as the holy grail of meaningful large-scale PvP.
I think there are greater issues at play than just devs "understanding."
Production costs are so high these days... and people seem to eat up "gear grind pve/e-sport pvp" games... and the few games that have tried to buck the trend have been pretty miserable.
You're talking about big companies now... and the risk/reward just doesn't seem to be there. I don't think it's for lack of ideas - though it really feels that way when game after game spits the same gameplay back at us - with a few new bells and whistles (hey there SWtoR).
I'm hopeful the success of Minecraft will spill into MMOs.... I think it will - though I don't know who will do it. Hell... it might even be Blizzard.
I wouldn't put it past them.