Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
ARGH! Gawd, Please stop all the constant whining about monthly fees already!
Zaxx99
Member Posts: 1,761
This is only to all those people on here (and you know who you are) who complain constantly about wanting a superb free mmo, or that you hate the mmo monthly fees... etc etc. To all those here that this doesn't apply to, please skip over the following:
So you want to play a great mmorpg?
So you want to play with other players, and explore a huge, beautiful and ever-changing world huh?
And you want to spend countless hours in this game because it's so great and addicting!??
Well then...
(I hate to sound bitter and angry here.... but here goes...)
STFU ALREADY! Pay the damn $12.95 or $14.95 a month which equates to less then 50 friggin' cents a day to play to your hearts content!
Please all you constant whiners STOP complaining about the monthly fees, Jesus H Christ!!
Get a friggin job, get a debit card of some sort even if it's one of those you put money on it at a bank and fill it before you use it kinda cards... and stop acting like these pay to play games are breakin' you.
Let me give you all a few things to think about...
1) If you can afford to pay $120 for those damn stupid looking shoes you wear around untied, then surely you can afford 50 cents a day to play your favorite game for hours on end all the time, huh?
2) If you stopped eating at Wendy's and Pizza Hut 5 times a week, that might save you quite a bit as well, eh? Perhaps only eat out one less time a week then you do currently, pay the $15 a month and stop bitching about it.. cool?
3) Ever go to the movies? Yeh. Well I bet you anything you dropped more money for the ticket and a soda just for yourself for that 2 hour movie then it would cost you to pay for a quality game with unlimited playing time for the whole month, ya know?
4) If you really can't afford the money - Then if you really love the great mmos so much, spend 2 hours a month asking for donations to be able to come up with the funds to play your game 100 hours a month... sounds like a fair trade to me, heh.
5) If you say that you don't have a credit card or debit card then you really aren't trying hard enough are you? Theres TONS of debit cards available even the the worst of credit. And even then, surely you know someone that can let you use their card and you can sport them $20 a month or whatever.
6) If your mommy won't let you use her card anymore, then grow up and get a damn job. Go sell lemonade on the street, sell burgers at a friggin Wendy's or rob your little brothers piggy bank I don't care, but stop complaining that you wanna play the best damn mmo out there but it should be free etc etc etc Waaaaa! Do you realize that like working 2 hours and 15 minutes at Wendys would be all it takes to pay for your online gamefare?
MMOs charge monthly fees yes because they are greedy, but mostly because the cost of running servers that host their online virtual world are very expensive to run. That's why you don't see EQ2 and World of Warcraft for free and no monthly fees. And games like Guild Wars will get their monthly fees as well, trust me. They will just get it with a $50 expansion every few months.
Monthly fees are here to stay for the best mmo type games that give you so much more then any single player game could ever possibly offer. Get used to it and please stop whining about it already. Please...
- Zaxx
Comments
n
Great post dude! I totally agree.
I think the thing is most of the people who complain dont have credit cards/aren't old enough to have one.
_________________________
[Old] My City of Heroes Detailed Update List
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/450/loadthread/44836/setstart/1/loadclass/143
[OLD] - My Open Beta List and Review http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/584/loadthread/34685/setstart/1/loadclass/35
But I want something for nothing damnit...
My mommy told me I was the most important wittle man in da world
Its not fair
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
lol we all do.
On this subject I have a suggestion for the people under 18. There's a prepaid credit card called Visabuxx you can get. This'll help alot with being able to play mmo's.
www.bankofamerica/visabuxx <-- Just talk to your parents, it's a pretty safe and easy way of making online payments, especially since it's prepaid.
_________________________
[Old] My City of Heroes Detailed Update List
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/450/loadthread/44836/setstart/1/loadclass/143
[OLD] - My Open Beta List and Review http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/584/loadthread/34685/setstart/1/loadclass/35
God Bless you Zaxtor
On Time? On Target? Never Quit?
I totally agree with the original poster. Even if I wasnt old enough I would find away.
"Like They say if its important enough you will find a way"
Playing Fallen Earth.
It's a lot easier to complain than actually doing anything about it, so proves the masses.
That might actually involve getting up off your lazy ass and doing something, heaven forbid.
The only people who complain are 12 year old kiddies who don't have a job and need mommy's credit card. $12-$15 isn't a drop in the bucket.
Personally I have always felt that anyone under like.... 16 shouldn't be allowed in MMO's period.
Then again I'm old school and think anyone who can't fix their own freaking PC shouldn't own one either.
As to whining about monthly fees?
I just chalk anyone whining about monthly fees up as a free-loader who is obviously unable to hold down a job and can't understand why society doesn't care about their desires.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Zax, everything ok ? You seem a little stressed, hehe. But seriously, I think you should tell us how you really feel ?
All kidding asside, I completely agree. when I was 14, I really really really wanted to play Lineage and even at that age I found a way to be able to pay for my montly fees. And then later, way before it's release, I was appart of the SWG forums and community, found myself in beta and again on release found a way to pay for the montly fee. What the point is to complaining about a monthly fee for a quality game I will never know but I guess people will write anything to pass the time...
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Sweet fancy Moses Eln, amen. As an IT tech, I get so frustrated with people who don't know where to find the power button. Or "my email doesn't work." No, actually, you're network cable is plugged into a dead jack, but good thing I had to play with your email program for 10 minutes before I was able to get that info. Ugh.
But yes, if you can't get a credit card, go to the bank. Start a checking account, even if it's just with your allowance (yes, you will have to save up about $50 to do so). Most banks will give you a FREE check card with the account. There, now you can play to your heart's content, assuming you can bring in that $15 a month (again, can we say allowance)?
Good post, chief, it needed to be said.
(Oh, and wait about 10 minutes, there will be 3 more "Any good FREE MMO's out there?" posts to push this to page 2).
So what about those of us that can afford it but don't want to pay $15 a month for crappy gameplay. I like UO, EQ, AC and AO but not enough to pay $15 a month. I might pay a one time fee of $30 for the game plus an additional $30 for the expansions, but $180+ just for the first year? For one game to cost that kind of money it better mow my lawn, clean my house and suck my $%&*. To be fair, I haven't played WoW yet so I can't say wether or not it's worth it. Most of the MMORPGs that I've played aren't worth it. It's about quality and there are only a few that really pass muster here. A Tale in The Desert, Eve, Underlight, I would say Guild Wars but it's on a one time pay system anyway......
Yeah, I' well aware that oodles and oodles of people are going to play this or that game for this or that reason. For me it's about how the game plays. Most MMORPGs play like old school single-player dungeon crawls slowed to the pace of snails on vallium. Games, like sex, seem to be better with more players even if the game itself is absolute garbage.
Don't like it, don't pay it to play it. Simple as that. Personally, I'll skip all the damn McDonald's and Burger King that leaves that fatness on your belly and play a bit of MMORPG where I can actually have a bit of *gasp* community and not have to worry about my girth. (albeit it sounds a bit redundant)
Simple: If you don't feel it's worth the money then DONT PLAY IT
It's called supply and demand. As long as people pay what the prices are set at they'll continue doing it. If you don't feel it's worth $15 then don't pay for it. Eventually the price will come down. And if it doesn't come down then you're proven wrong because enough people pay the price they set it at that they don't feel a need to lower it.
Supply and demand buddy. If it isn't worth the price to you then go play something else. Bitching about the price accomplishes ZIP
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
My point was that not everyone looking for a free / cheap game is 16 and living with their parents. I do play UO and EQ, I just don't pay the monthly fee. I did buy the box because that's what I felt those games were worth. I agree that you shouldn't play what you don't like. I also believe that you shouldn't pay more for something that you like but think is worth way less. You can call that stealing if you want, but I say the same thing about SOE charging $15 month for EQ. I'm stealing or they're price gouging, it's all a point of view.
Actually if you're playing EQ on an illegal server (you said you're not paying a fee to play so that's fairly obvious) you *are* stealing. It has nothing to do with "point of view" it has everything to do with "the law". Eventually that server will be shutdown because SOE is going after the people hosting those servers in court. And they will win.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
you need to read the EULA on EQ again. EQ2 fixed this problem in the EULA but the first EQ left the same loophole that UO did. It's okay to use the client for servers that don't replicate the OSI experience. In other words, if it ain't Norath it's okay. The gameplay is completely the same but most times the map and monster scripts are just a little bit different. That's cool because you really get to see all the things SOE could've done with EQ but didn't. What I do is more like modding than piracy. I've always said that MMORPGs could benifit from player made content and the only way to get that right now is on free servers.
Jimmy, there really isn't a different point of view here. If you are taking something for free without consent of the owner, you are stealing.
The $15 isn't a gouge. The $15 is a justified cost related to keeping the servers up, keeping support team there to help and keeping a live team...umm.. live.
$180 a year for about 8300 hours of gameplay (I took out some time for downtime) isn't really that bad. That is about .02 per hour for each potential hour you are able to play the game. I can't see that being unjustified.
<insert the flood of Guild Wars and Diablo II arguments here>.
They are not MMO games and do not have the same overhead requirements. However, they are both great games.
You are entitled to your point of view, but you aren't entitled to take what isn't yours. If you want it for free, make it yourself. I would be more than happy to consult for you.
Fadinaway
Playerbase Solutions
http://www.playerbasesolutions.com
AO is FREEEEEE to play. (for 1 solid year! Technically until January 2006 since the free program started in Jan of this year.) What are you waiting for? Go to AnarchyOnline.com, download the game for free, make a new account, and play free for 1 year.
Any other excuses?
-Personal Website (A Work still in progress):
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html
-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, Freelancer, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
-More SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol
-More EQ, Dungeon Siege, *UXO*, Diablo II:Lords of Destruction:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EverQuest II, Horizons:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
-DAoC
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02
The EULA doesnt matter when you're talking about copyrighted material or patented code. They still have legal ways of dealing with illegal servers and they'll shut down the game and sue the person running it if they catch you. This is Sony you're dealing with not mom and pop's dairy market.
Make a difference!
By using the IP of Sony which includes ALL the art and any text / story in the game, as well as how the code is written, you are in violation of IP laws. This would mean you would have to alter the code, change the graphics, change the animinations and change the text. In other words, you would have to make your own game.
The biggest issue is the fact they wouldn't be charging for the experience. However, they would be causing a loss of revenue to Sony which would only have to be proved by Sony lawyers. I have met several game industry lawyers. I can, with all confidence, say they would easily be able to prove it.
Fadinaway
Playerbase Solutions
http://www.playerbasesolutions.com
What you feel you should be able to do and what you are able to do are two different things.
The game code is covered by IP laws. It is not like buying a car and being able to customize it. However, if you wish to play EQ and never put it online for others to use for free, there probably wouldn't be an issue. If you used it for your own personal use without ever letting anyone else touch it and without distributing your code alterations, you probably wouldn't be touched.
You paid for the game, not the game code. By your logic, you should be able to use the graphics, animations and codes to your hearts content as long as you aren't making money off of it. Wrong. I have worked in gaming networks, fan sites, etc. The only reason we are / were able to keep gameplay footage or screenshots is because the publishers know it is good press and it is only helping their game. If you cause a revenue loss to the company you are breaking the law.
Free servers and games are done by hobbyists, generally have a very low population, limited support, and disappear in a much shorter amount of time than the live servers. To say it only costs $75 a month to run a 2000 player server is to not know the true value of operating costs. If a company can hire just ONE person to support a game for $75 a month, I would jump on that business plan in a heartbeat. Just one support member can cost from $15,000 to $30,000 per year depending on their experience and location. That alone is $1250 to $2500 per month. Now, for a large game, you can multiply that by at LEAST 4 (which is the smallest team I have ever managed). Sony, at one point, had about 100 GMs. You then have to add live team members which would run you from $20,000 to $60,000 per person per year, again depending on experience, duties and location. Let's add in the cost of an actual dedicated server bank. The lowest I have marketed was around $250 per month. However they average MUCH more than that. That is for professional service and not for the guy sitting in his mother's basement. When thinking of costs, you have to think beyond a GoDaddy account. There is MUCH more to running a MMO. These are just some of the costs. You have to include management, building costs, R&D costs, marketing costs, etc.
Free servers can easily cater to their player bases because it doesn't number in the 10s of thousands and their income doesn't depend on the entire playerbase. Until you can point me to a successful free MMO server (without another income model) with 10s of thousands of players, your argument is moot. These businesses spent millions making these games. When you have the money to make your own game, then make it. Until then, I wouldn't recommend just taking it. I don't mean to sound too blunt, but taking something that isn't rightfully yours and then justifying it with entitlement logic doesn't change that it is still just taking it.
Fadinaway
Playerbase Solutions
http://www.playerbasesolutions.com
For starters, we aren't changing the code. We're normally changing a config file in the game to tell the client to read this content and point at this server. The code remains untouched. The content may end up overwritten and replaced with custom models and world data but that's hardly the same as altering the program. I've always personally thought it was ignorant / greedy / dishonest to not allow people to alter the code of a program they bought in order to better suite their needs but that's another subject entirely.
Next up you seem stuck on the idea that we're all just stealing content. Quite a few free servers do but quite a few use there own content and leave all the artwork and level design that SOE and EA made alone. By your logic, playing a Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament mod is somehow "immoral". Try again.
Yes, free servers are done by hobbyist and have low populations. However, even with your cost itemization, The profits far outstrip the cost of operation. A profit of 200% is good business but it still leaves the question of gouging. The "take it or leave it" attitude is elitist and seems to support the rewarding / ignoring of unethical business practices. If your business model involves overcharging your customers, then it's not a legit business. I seriously believe that these games could charge significantly less and still be profitable. I'm cheap and I admit that.
And here's another question that I have. Isn't Forcing everyone that buys your client software to play on your server alot like a an electronics outfit forcing everyone that buys a TV from them to use ONLY their cable service? Sounds like a borderline monoply to me. Or more like a cartel. Seriously, the people that play on free servers aren't going to pay for OSI servers even if all the free servers were closed. If SOE and EA really wanted to make some money and relieve themselves of all this maintenance, then they would allow people to lease the server software and charge whatever they wanted for access to it. T4C tried something like this and there are still servers for it. Imagine if a GOOD (in the case of MMORPGS, good means average) game did this? SOE and EA could still make the same amount of money with none of the upkeep!! Not only that, but gamers would have more choice, more freedom and more say in the games they played. <shrugs> I can dream can't I?
You need to get a clue. You're a thief and you know it so just admit it. You may be cheap but i can also tell you when Sony busts you - and they will - you will be a dirt farmer for quite a long time.
Make a difference!