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My prediction: Games are going to get more complex
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
All video games (MMORPGs included), in recent history, have shown a strong trend towards simplification. Whether it be called streamlining, dumbing down, accessibility, whatever you call it, it just means that games have been getting more simple.
And the reason for this, IMO, is very cut and dry. Growth. Game devs are trying to get people who aren't playing their games now, to start. To do this, they try to remove much of the intimidating complexity from their game that may otherwise turn these potentially new players off. And I think this has been very successful at the industry level. The video game industry has been experiencing explosive growth since around 2006 (http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry).
But here's the thing, at some point, that growth is going to plateau. Always happens. You can only grow so big. And when this happens, all those new video game players are probably going to do one of two things, they will either:
A. Grow disinterested in video gaming and pursue other hobbies.
or
B. Remain interested in video gaming but crave more complexity in their games. After all, how long can you swing a plastic remote at a screen to make your avatar hit a tennis ball without getting bored?
And I think that point B is going to drive game developers to start making games with more depth and complexity. Once the growth spurt is over, you're left with an audience of established gamers that are going to crave something deeper. They aren't going to be amused by shallow games anymore.
If you want some more illustration of this point, just think of the first video game you ever played. I'm guessing it wasn't civilization. I would wager that most of us started our gaming hobby with a relatively simplistic, highly accesible, game. Sure there will be exceptions, but most of the time you enter a hobby with a "lite" product and then move up in complexity from there. I think the video game industry as a whole is going to go through this change once growth plateaus.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
If they could combined the constant contradiction and confusion of reality TV into it could be a win for the industry.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Couple of things I take issues.1) It already happened. Video game revenue decreases in the last quarter.
2) I do not think all people will grow dis-interested. Just look at movies, even when the market is not growing, it does not decrease by a large amount.
3) I do not think people will suddenly crave complexity. Just look at the movie industry. Year after year, the best selling movies are pop corn movies that you don't need much brain power to enjoy. The same thing is going to happen with games.
Cinema movies yes.
Look what happened with Tv Series though in last few years.
Sure biggest hits are still rather simple detective or such or even dumb series, but there are more complex , serious or even handling social issues series which was nearly non-existant in 80 and most of 90's that are not far behind in popularity.
For revenues devrease to have effect it have to be up to even few years. It is not something that happens at once, due to decision making in companies (takes long) + production cycle takes long as well, especially in mmorpg's.
More Game of Thrones, less Xena (and I loved Xena :P).
I don't know if this trend is going to happen in videogames, but I hope it does. You can only play Mario so many times, and as we grow we switch our interests into new things beyond hand-eye reflexes, easy correlations, and maxing up stats. I want a hobby that enriches me, not just a time sinker.
Hey guys LOL...
Remember how MMO's were back in the day? remember when you sat there with your group of bros you've never met before but gamed with every night and talked about how amazing MMORPG's were going to be in the future?
yeah little did we know .... :-(
i can only hope that games will return to the more complex, open/virtual world, sandbox type games. thats why i started playing mmorpgs.
The slow but steady decline in WoW subs may be the first clear indication that players want "more complexity", but more likely they just want something totally different.
Tbh, I think that "more complexity" appeals to a certain group, but I doubt it applies to the "mainstream" player. In PC game terms, perhaps these are the Civilization, Master of Orion and SimCity type of players ?
Yeah, I recall those days, LOL!
As far as the OP, I dunno. If games, or more specifically MMORPGs are going to get more complex, I don't see it happening. The big, upcoming titles are all about streamlining a magnificent Redwood Tree (gameplay) into a tiny toothpick (today's MMORPGs).
I see nothing now or in the future that will break the trend of what exists today. Nothing short of a total genre disaster will change that.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Sorry to say but Idiocracy is here to stay, and still growing.
"And there was a time in this country, a long time ago, when reading wasn't just for fags and neither was writing. People wrote books and movies, movies that had stories so you cared whose ass it was and why it was farting, and I believe that time can come again! " Pvt. Joe Bowers: [addressing Congress]
EA recently added Klicknation to Bioware. They see facebook app games as a future money maker- Your Honor, I rest my case.
And a terrible, terrible loss for humanity ...
Well they rebrand many of their EA studios on Bioware name, so that's hardly surprising.
They know Bioware brand = better sales , well at least it does now.
Actually I think its going to be more of a increase in diversity more than an increase in complexity. And diversification will inevitably bring complexity as the target audiences become smaller and smaller. The problem right now is if an MMO takes 5-7 years of development plus a 100+million dollar budgets then reducing complexity is a smart business move. But if due to upgrades to technologies, programming models, better game and graphics engines, and new business models smaller might be the new better.
An example would be the apps for smartphones. Small development teams, on standard systems (iOS, AndroidOS), with the potential to sell millions of copies of something for cheap (Angry Birds). As opposed to the behemoth monster that is the typical software market developed to support all systems, need shelf space, need to sell millions at huge up front purchase costs ($50-$60 for a copy of BF3).
Also I agree simplifcation can only go so far until people again want complexity.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
And they may need that F2P expertise at bioware real soon
Well, I'm a professional pessimist as well, but reading in the US has increased 200 to 300 percent in the past few years, thanks to Kindle (or so I hear.)
I thought reading is pretty much dead with younger generations until Harry Potter came along...
The thing is, times change but human nature doesnt. If there is too much dumbing down, there is bound to be a backlash. Some human needs, such as the one for intelligent entertainment (as well as dumb one) is never going to go away, unless our hdden reptilian overlords decide to permanently dumb us down through chemical or radiological means.
SW:TOR's now quite certain ignomious demise is a case in point. In the "good old days" mmos were a bit too criptic and geeky. Heck I couldn't really get into DAOC because of clunky gameplay, controls, UI and a general wtf factor. WoW was a reaction to that - mmo that is clear, simple and accessible to all. Now there is too much "dumb and accessible" in gaming and I sense a real blowback brewing for skinnerian games. Somehow I doubt Zynga is making as much money as 2 years ago. The general populace is beginning to see through those exploitative games.
Imo next gen games that are going to be succesful will have increased depth (not necessatily complexity) but will retain other advances in the game design that appeared in the past decade.
Personally, and I can see that in my family and casual gaming friends, a game that has this tired xp/level/unlock skinnerian mechanic that they now shove into absolutely everything is usually not considered even worth trying out.
I dispute that games are simplier. The UIs are better, my imagination is more used to rapidly assimilating all the information a game is throwing at me, but the overall complexity of the games that come out today is immensely higher than the games of my nostalgic youth.
The thing is that complexity, or rather "depth" actually does not cost anything... or at least not much compared to other costs.
Just consider SW:TOR, probably the most expensive PC game to date which is amazingly shallow and simplistic.
Imo, the investors will learn that adding depth to the game is actually an amazingly cost-effective way of adding value to the game, unlike VOs, cutscenes, insanely expensive IPs and massive PR campaigns.
What games were you playing?
I played games like Master of Magic, Master of Orion 1 & 2, X-com UFO,TFTD, and APOC, Baldur's Gate, etc.
Most modern games are still pretty shallow compared to any of these.
He's probably right you know....a lot of games are similar to previous ones so we just know so it seems simpler. I tried teaching my mom Rift and she was overwhelmed lol.
How many craftables were there in XCOM? How many different monsters and different moves? How many different maps are there? I'll bet you could blow through XCOM in a day today.
I'm not going to argue there aren't features from these games that I miss seeing. I still think nethack has better replay value in its dungeon crawls than any MMO I've yet encountered. But pause for a moment and just count the number of stats, the number of mechanics that actually exist and you'll notice that your perception of complexity does not match the reality of complexity.
No, I think Ceridith was more online with that answer. It all depends upon what you are comparing it to. There is no way that modern MMORPGs are as complex games such as EQ and DAoC.
1. there were not magic exclamation points and question marks to indicate who you needed to talk to to acquire or turn in a quest
2. there were no magically highlighter areas on your minimap to tell you "Go here to find the super secret ROUS's that you need for the princes bride quest".
3. Also back then quest spoiler/walk throughs were no where near as prevalent as they are now.
4. You had to worry about over pulls and navigating through areas because corpse runs were really a detriment to stupidity (some CRs were overly drastic).
5. You actually had to pay a little bit of attention to the quest contents (see 2 and 3 above)
6. Content wasn't designed for a single player barely paying attention. For example, in EQ as a lvl 17 half elf hunter you couldn't generally solo a lvl 17 mob without a very long downtime after the fight, but two could play pinball with said mob and keep it running back and forth between the two of you and take almost no damage. Back then it was a case of brains over brawns. It's no longer the case.
There are numerous craftables in XCOM. Map wise, for tactical maps there were technically infinite because they were randomly generated. Yes the monsters were fixed types, but again the number of them, their equipment, and abilities varied greatly due to random generation. Even statwise, all of your soldiers have random stats when you get them that they can improve. Each and every playthrough of the game is different from the last.
As per blowing through it in a day these days... hardly. I actually just fired up X-COM:UFO this past weekend. I started a new game at the mid level difficulty. During the first five minutes of me playing my base was attacked, and I spent the next hour constantly saving and reloading the game to get through the FIRST combat mission of my playthrough... Honestly the game is still incredibly enjoyable, because there is so much depth, choices, and randomization in the game that it allows for a great deal of variation between play throughs. Hell I've already passed the game a couple dozen times, and I still find it fun everytime I go back and start the game over again.
The point I'm getting at, is that much of the complexity lies in the freedom of choices and randomization, that allows for a great deal of variation. That's why games like X-COM, Master of Magic, and Master of Orion are still enjoyable to play after close to two decades later.
Most new games simply lack these things. They're so static and linear. Predictable, and well, just plain boring.
I'd disagree and wonder if that's just hubris talking.
Isn't it interesting that one of the things people complain about in WoW today is raiding growing harder again? The pendulum swings back, the way it always has.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think that accessibility and simplification are two very different things.
I think in order for there to be growth in the industry, the game primarily has to be accessible from a time standpoint. Someone who is otherwise busy needs to be able to get into the game and accomplish something in the time they have. That might mean fast travel, LFG tools, no arduous corpse recovery, daily quests, or whatever. To me, that's one part of accessibility.
There is another part which is about making it easy for the nongamer to play and to understand, but it doesn't mean the game has to be simple. It just needs to be easy to learn. A game can still be hard to master.
Take WoW for instance. Stereotypically, Hunters are terrible. You can play a hunter just by facerolling and do ok. But to play a Hunter well is a whole different ballgame. I've personally used a 17 tab simulation spreadsheet from elitistjerks to try to figure out the optimum gear upgrades and rotation. It's not really that hard to execute, but a true understanding of the game and the mechanics is something that the casual player doesn't really need to involve themselves with. I think a great game will have something for both audiences.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
What you're comparing XCOM to?
Besides I think perception of that older games are more complex are because :
- current games usually have shallow lore / world / story
- are streamlined to the point of being ridiculous - for example Ultima Online used some VERY simple mechanics and not so much of them either. Nowadays any f2p low-budget game will provide your character with FAR more skills / talents / etc but that does not change a fact that this does not translate into complexity as most of them are useless anyway, while in UO almost everything had it's uses.
- games nowadays are far more forgiving and frequently just plain easy
Second thing is that nowadays games usually offer one type of gameplay.
Compare Duke Nukem 3D and recent Duke Nukem Forever.
Overall modern single player FPS make your experience totally railed. You just have one way and one option to go and cannot do nothing else than to follow your predefined route. At same time you usually have more weapons , that usually can get upgraded , you can frequently use some vehicle, psychics frequently is present ,etc - so more mechanics but LESS ways and opportunities to use them and LESS freedom.
Games from 90's and early 00' and I am talking about strategy, crpg and FPS games had usually less mechanics but more freedom, less hand-holding, less forgiving, more attention to detail, some mechanics hidden on purpose and if they had stories / lore like in crpg's usually those were more beliveable , dialogues had more options, choices mattered more (having cake and eating it was hard or impossible nowadays it is common), etc
Two links:
http://i.imgur.com/jFNzE.jpg
http://imgur.com/fWK2L.jpg
Really what blew me away was when I went and played the original Daggerfall. And just completely dumbfounded by the sheer complexity, size and scope of the game. Those pictures are quite lol, especially the FPS one, its so true.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath