Given the level of exaggeration, hyperbole, aggression and general spitefulness you get on forums simply because people think they are a consequence-free zone, it shouldn't be surprising that moderation gets tough. Moderation (or censorship if you prefer the more emotive and hyperbolic term) is the consequence of general asshattery.
In many cases, moderation of "general asshattery" isn't needed. People should be free to argue and have heated debates as they please.
Also, the "censorship" here isn't referring to proper moderation of forum TOS violations, but rather it refers to the abuse of power by the moderators in censoring posts and/or comments that don't actually violate any TOS or rules of the forum.
To say that moderation is the consequence of general asshattery is to justify moderation even in cases where actual moderation abuse occurs. I don't see any need or reason why someone would want to support moderation abuse...the only entity that stands to gain from such abuse is the abuser.
Problem is that some people have not grown their Internet Thick-skin yet. So they get all butthurt and go and commit suicide or some such nonsense because of what some obvious troll is spouting.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Well thats why there are forums like MMORPGs.. its sad but most companies now use a overarrogant posture dealing with their own forums to try to keep down the noise.
they have the wrong idea that people are so stupid that by not reading what others complain about they will think all is nice and roses fil the blue sky near an romantic beach.
I have noticed their forum moderation posture increasing as the first month went by.. and lots of the affected posts were just sugestions on how to improve the game made by honest players giving a constructive opinion.. not a good way to create a good relation with their costumers ( Failcom did the same btw ).
when a company starts moderating forums as they did, that will send red signs to all the player base.. i dont get why people dont look to the past of the mmo industry and learn from it. So many examples of what should and not be done..
They did the exact same as they did with the HighRes texture debacle. Removing all posts with links that showed proof.
During the HighRes texture debacle, they deleted a lot of posts where people were posting their old beta screenshots showing full HighRes textures in the game.
They conveniently only left one post remain in that whole topic, where and old beta tester accidently posted a screen of a cutscene, which was later used in the "official" response to debunk it and call everyone a liar and that HighRes textures never existed outside cutscenes!
Now they do the exact same thing with the Ilum / Valor gain debacle yesterday.
I am just glad we canceled our accounts yesterday, just in time before the billing period! Which was also 2 days too early I might add!
They did the exact same as they did with the HighRes texture debacle. Removing all posts with links that showed proof.
During the HighRes texture debacle, they deleted a lot of posts where people were posting their old beta screenshots showing full HighRes textures in the game.
They conveniently only left one post remain in that whole topic, where and old beta tester accidently posted a screen of a cutscene, which was later used in the "official" response to debunk it and call everyone a liar and that HighRes textures never existed outside cutscenes!
Now they do the exact same thing with the Ilum / Valor gain debacle yesterday.
I am just glad we canceled our accounts yesterday, just in time before the billing period! Which was also 2 days too early I might add!
Yeah that whole "Medium setting was a bug" bullshit made me loose some respect for this game. But I have (blind?) faith that they will patch it back in as soon as they fix whatever caused them to have to take it out.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Given the level of exaggeration, hyperbole, aggression and general spitefulness you get on forums simply because people think they are a consequence-free zone, it shouldn't be surprising that moderation gets tough. Moderation (or censorship if you prefer the more emotive and hyperbolic term) is the consequence of general asshattery.
In many cases, moderation of "general asshattery" on a forum isn't needed. People should be free to argue and have heated debates as they please.
Also, the "censorship" OP is talking about isn't referring to proper, reasonable moderation of forum TOS violations. Rather, OP is referring to the abuse of power by moderators in censoring posts and/or comments that don't actually violate any TOS or rules of the forum, or for punishing too much for just a small TOS infraction.
To say that moderation is the consequence of general asshattery is to justify moderation even in cases where actual moderation abuse occurs (this statement is just IN MY OPINION. I know you didn't make this statement). I don't see any need or reason why someone would want to support moderation abuse...the only entity that stands to gain from such abuse is the abuser.
Very well said. The part that really bothers me is that I was banned for a full month simply for mentioning the word SOPA. I've never even heard of a troll recieving that kind of ban.
It is very clear to me this was intentional and not simply regular enforcement of forum rules.
I thought the game was great but I just couldn't deal with the crazy amount of censorship they practice on the forums and in game any longer. It got to be completly and utterly rediculous.
I'm not a fan of any kind of censorship even if it is their site. I'd rather just not play the game at all than condone censorship with my continued subscription. I realize I shouldn't be so bothered by it because it is their site but I just couldn't help it. It seriously bugged me so much that I couldn't continue to support EA/Bioware.
Did anyone else feel this way or even go so far as to unsub because of it like I did?
Unmoderated forum may as well be shut down. The extremeists will drive away the majority of players and there will be nothing useful that is posted there for the developers to look at.
The examples of forum moderation that I have seen in the SW:TOR forums have been reasonable as far as I am concerned. There have been a large number of people crying over the fact that bugs take longer than a minute and that with the launch there were both bugs and inexperience by EA showing up as problems. The developers acknowledged the problems and that they were being addressed. The constant crying because no fix/change was instantly avaliable was just shy of a smear campaign and I agree with the moderators that removed them. They were not productive discussions.
Also unsubing because of forum moderation? I judge a game and if I am going to continue to subscribe based on my in game experience and not what people are posting on forums.
As to the statements that talking about SOPA geting people banned. Well that is talking politics which are against the forum rules. Also EA is most likely one of the companies pushing hard to get it passed so of course they would clean up any anti SOPA discussion.
I have a great solution. Just dont bother with the forums. They are useless in any case. If you otherwise enjoy the game just play the game and let all of the other crap go. The devs dont really care about the forums or what is posted in there,,,the game is what it is and wont be changing in any significant way except for more of the same type of content.
I personally never saw anthing that would relate to in-game censorship unless perhaps someone was trying to use a copyrighted name.
You're probably right... But since I know it's happening I can't continue to subscribe to this game in good faith
because they wont let you add fuel to the fire in the forums? Really?
Given the level of exaggeration, hyperbole, aggression and general spitefulness you get on forums simply because people think they are a consequence-free zone, it shouldn't be surprising that moderation gets tough. Moderation (or censorship if you prefer the more emotive and hyperbolic term) is the consequence of general asshattery.
In many cases, moderation of "general asshattery" on a forum isn't needed. People should be free to argue and have heated debates as they please.
Also, the "censorship" OP is talking about isn't referring to proper, reasonable moderation of forum TOS violations. Rather, OP is referring to the abuse of power by moderators in censoring posts and/or comments that don't actually violate any TOS or rules of the forum, or for punishing too much for just a small TOS infraction.
To say that moderation is the consequence of general asshattery is to justify moderation even in cases where actual moderation abuse occurs (this statement is just IN MY OPINION. I know you didn't make this statement). I don't see any need or reason why someone would want to support moderation abuse...the only entity that stands to gain from such abuse is the abuser.
I don't support moderation abuse or forum censorship or any of that stuff. All I am saying is that moderation is a direct consequence of people being knobs on the internet, and just as you get trollish posters you get trollish moderators too.
It's karma in the strictest and most perfect sense of the word.
I've seen some interesting discussions that were closed down with everyone being pointed to that one thread where you could state your concerns. Their forum is the last place to check opinions right now.
I've tried to stay out of General Discussion TOR forums, that place, even with heavy-handed moderation is truly a cess pool. I feel you OP, but just don't bother with forums at the moment. A lot of the people causing issues will probably soon be gone, and moderation may slack a little.
I actually like the moderation over here. It's pretty fair imo. Now...the worst forums I have ever encountered are the Steam forums. The moderation over there is quite insane. I have personally never gotten in trouble over there (don't post much), but I have a friend who was recently lifetime banned for typing the word torrent. He wasn't saying to download something illegally, was actually commenting on someone who he thought torrented a game. It's pretty ridiculous.
I've tried to stay out of General Discussion TOR forums, that place, even with heavy-handed moderation is truly a cess pool. I feel you OP, but just don't bother with forums at the moment. A lot of the people causing issues will probably soon be gone, and moderation may slack a little.
I actually like the moderation over here. It's pretty fair imo. Now...the worst forums I have ever encountered are the Steam forums. The moderation over there is quite insane. I have personally never gotten in trouble over there (don't post much), but I have a friend who was recently lifetime banned for typing the word torrent. He wasn't saying to download something illegally, was actually commenting on someone who he thought torrented a game. It's pretty ridiculous.
Well I said the word "SOPA" and did not recieve a 30 day ban instantly... So yea this forum is lightyears better tahn the SWTOR forum.
I don't support moderation abuse or forum censorship or any of that stuff. All I am saying is that moderation is a direct consequence of people being knobs on the internet, and just as you get trollish posters you get trollish moderators too.
It's karma in the strictest and most perfect sense of the word.
I completely misunderstood you. My bad. I understand what you are saying now.
Very well said. The part that really bothers me is that I was banned for a full month simply for mentioning the word SOPA. I've never even heard of a troll recieving that kind of ban.
It is very clear to me this was intentional and not simply regular enforcement of forum rules.
Why do I feel there is a lot more to this story that isnt being told
I've seen some interesting discussions that were closed down with everyone being pointed to that one thread where you could state your concerns. Their forum is the last place to check opinions right now.
This is standard though. Rift does this too, but it varies week by week how much of it they do.
I thought the game was great but I just couldn't deal with the crazy amount of censorship they practice on the forums and in game any longer. It got to be completly and utterly rediculous.
I'm not a fan of any kind of censorship even if it is their site. I'd rather just not play the game at all than condone censorship with my continued subscription. I realize I shouldn't be so bothered by it because it is their site but I just couldn't help it. It seriously bugged me so much that I couldn't continue to support EA/Bioware.
Did anyone else feel this way or even go so far as to unsub because of it like I did?
I agree with you to a certian extent. You should be able to discuss anything game related. But most companies try to avoid the negatives because it hurts their wallets. EA is one of the biggest censors to this date.
Funny thing is that stuff like this always leaks out anyways.. The more you try and hide something the more people digg for the truth...
No you wont fool the childrean of the Revolution.. no you wont fool... enough said...
Censorship hurts you as much, if not even more then just leaving the so called " Bad posts alone".....
Originally posted by Worstluck Now...the worst forums I have ever encountered are the Steam forums. The moderation over there is quite insane. I have personally never gotten in trouble over there (don't post much), but I have a friend who was recently lifetime banned for typing the word torrent. He wasn't saying to download something illegally, was actually commenting on someone who he thought torrented a game. It's pretty ridiculous.
Same here.
My first ban was handed down because A poster that was very helpful in a game forum showing players how to better run a game. He was accused (rightly it turns out) of torrenting the game. I came on to state that it doesn't matter how he got the game the help is still valid. I got perma-banned for "advocating piracy". Of course I DO advocate file-sharing. We all should.
The second ban was SOPA-related and i got into a heated debate with some corporate shill and admited that this was my second forum account. Bam perma-banned again.
The moral of the story is that $team has so far lost almost $200 of sales from this "pirate". I will never buy a game from $team again. So GG and i hope they choke on a piece of SOPA!
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Originally posted by Worstluck Now...the worst forums I have ever encountered are the Steam forums. The moderation over there is quite insane. I have personally never gotten in trouble over there (don't post much), but I have a friend who was recently lifetime banned for typing the word torrent. He wasn't saying to download something illegally, was actually commenting on someone who he thought torrented a game. It's pretty ridiculous.
Same here.
My first ban was handed down because A poster that was very helpful in a game forum showing players how to better run a game. He was accused (rightly it turns out) of torrenting the game. I came on to state that it doesn't matter how he got the game the help is still valid. I got perma-banned for "advocating piracy". Of course I DO advocate file-sharing. We all should.
The second ban was SOPA-related and i got into a heated debate with some corporate shill and admited that this was my second forum account. Bam perma-banned again.
The moral of the story is that $team has so far lost almost $200 of sales from this "pirate". I will never buy a game from $team again. So GG and i hope they choke on a piece of SOPA!
Same concept as dictator need to suppress it's people. And to think that player in the state would appreciate the value of freedom. Kudos for continuing support for censorship
People should put this thread in their sigs for the SWTOR forums so we can try to gather some more info on this and make people aware of what's going on. We'll be the underground resistance on the SWTOR forums
I'm down for a bit of covert gamer activism. If you're going to do it be sneaky though. EA doesn't mess around from what I'm reading.
You're in for a surprise if you think these forums are not censored.
after the ToR beta nda lifted i posted some major concerns about the game and the way marketing was handled here and got a nice perma ban on my 8 year account even though i posted maturely and not really agressively....i guess if you mess with the affiliate $$$$$ from percentage cuts from linked box sales you WILL be censored.
Before release TOR was the holy grail (because it meant extra revenue for advertisers) now it is not so important
People should put this thread in their sigs for the SWTOR forums so we can try to gather some more info on this and make people aware of what's going on. We'll be the underground resistance on the SWTOR forums
I'm down for a bit of covert gamer activism. If you're going to do it be sneaky though. EA doesn't mess around from what I'm reading.
You're in for a surprise if you think these forums are not censored.
after the ToR beta nda lifted i posted some major concerns about the game and the way marketing was handled here and got a nice perma ban on my 8 year account even though i posted maturely and not really agressively....i guess if you mess with the affiliate $$$$$ from percentage cuts from linked box sales you WILL be censored.
Before release TOR was the holy grail (because it meant extra revenue for advertisers) now it is not so important
Sigh... Are there any sites out there aside from 4chan and reddit that do not use such aggressive censorship methods? Is there a site with a descent forum on the web that you can post on without fear of being censored?
Comments
Problem is that some people have not grown their Internet Thick-skin yet. So they get all butthurt and go and commit suicide or some such nonsense because of what some obvious troll is spouting.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Well thats why there are forums like MMORPGs.. its sad but most companies now use a overarrogant posture dealing with their own forums to try to keep down the noise.
they have the wrong idea that people are so stupid that by not reading what others complain about they will think all is nice and roses fil the blue sky near an romantic beach.
I have noticed their forum moderation posture increasing as the first month went by.. and lots of the affected posts were just sugestions on how to improve the game made by honest players giving a constructive opinion.. not a good way to create a good relation with their costumers ( Failcom did the same btw ).
when a company starts moderating forums as they did, that will send red signs to all the player base.. i dont get why people dont look to the past of the mmo industry and learn from it. So many examples of what should and not be done..
It's called Damage Control!
They did the exact same as they did with the HighRes texture debacle. Removing all posts with links that showed proof.
During the HighRes texture debacle, they deleted a lot of posts where people were posting their old beta screenshots showing full HighRes textures in the game.
They conveniently only left one post remain in that whole topic, where and old beta tester accidently posted a screen of a cutscene, which was later used in the "official" response to debunk it and call everyone a liar and that HighRes textures never existed outside cutscenes!
Now they do the exact same thing with the Ilum / Valor gain debacle yesterday.
I am just glad we canceled our accounts yesterday, just in time before the billing period! Which was also 2 days too early I might add!
Yeah that whole "Medium setting was a bug" bullshit made me loose some respect for this game. But I have (blind?) faith that they will patch it back in as soon as they fix whatever caused them to have to take it out.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Very well said. The part that really bothers me is that I was banned for a full month simply for mentioning the word SOPA. I've never even heard of a troll recieving that kind of ban.
It is very clear to me this was intentional and not simply regular enforcement of forum rules.
Unmoderated forum may as well be shut down. The extremeists will drive away the majority of players and there will be nothing useful that is posted there for the developers to look at.
The examples of forum moderation that I have seen in the SW:TOR forums have been reasonable as far as I am concerned. There have been a large number of people crying over the fact that bugs take longer than a minute and that with the launch there were both bugs and inexperience by EA showing up as problems. The developers acknowledged the problems and that they were being addressed. The constant crying because no fix/change was instantly avaliable was just shy of a smear campaign and I agree with the moderators that removed them. They were not productive discussions.
Also unsubing because of forum moderation? I judge a game and if I am going to continue to subscribe based on my in game experience and not what people are posting on forums.
As to the statements that talking about SOPA geting people banned. Well that is talking politics which are against the forum rules. Also EA is most likely one of the companies pushing hard to get it passed so of course they would clean up any anti SOPA discussion.
because they wont let you add fuel to the fire in the forums? Really?
I don't support moderation abuse or forum censorship or any of that stuff. All I am saying is that moderation is a direct consequence of people being knobs on the internet, and just as you get trollish posters you get trollish moderators too.
It's karma in the strictest and most perfect sense of the word.
I've seen some interesting discussions that were closed down with everyone being pointed to that one thread where you could state your concerns. Their forum is the last place to check opinions right now.
I've tried to stay out of General Discussion TOR forums, that place, even with heavy-handed moderation is truly a cess pool. I feel you OP, but just don't bother with forums at the moment. A lot of the people causing issues will probably soon be gone, and moderation may slack a little.
I actually like the moderation over here. It's pretty fair imo. Now...the worst forums I have ever encountered are the Steam forums. The moderation over there is quite insane. I have personally never gotten in trouble over there (don't post much), but I have a friend who was recently lifetime banned for typing the word torrent. He wasn't saying to download something illegally, was actually commenting on someone who he thought torrented a game. It's pretty ridiculous.
Well I said the word "SOPA" and did not recieve a 30 day ban instantly... So yea this forum is lightyears better tahn the SWTOR forum.
At least in how it's moderated.
Not exactly better here, I got a infraction here for mentioning the very political bill they wrote a story about here... I lol'd.
I completely misunderstood you. My bad. I understand what you are saying now.
Simple solution:
If you don't like how they run their forums....
Set up & run your own one.
Why do I feel there is a lot more to this story that isnt being told
This is standard though. Rift does this too, but it varies week by week how much of it they do.
Funny thing is that stuff like this always leaks out anyways.. The more you try and hide something the more people digg for the truth...
No you wont fool the childrean of the Revolution.. no you wont fool... enough said...
Censorship hurts you as much, if not even more then just leaving the so called " Bad posts alone".....
Same here.
My first ban was handed down because A poster that was very helpful in a game forum showing players how to better run a game. He was accused (rightly it turns out) of torrenting the game. I came on to state that it doesn't matter how he got the game the help is still valid. I got perma-banned for "advocating piracy". Of course I DO advocate file-sharing. We all should.
The second ban was SOPA-related and i got into a heated debate with some corporate shill and admited that this was my second forum account. Bam perma-banned again.
The moral of the story is that $team has so far lost almost $200 of sales from this "pirate". I will never buy a game from $team again. So GG and i hope they choke on a piece of SOPA!
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
This my friend is genuinely funny.
LOL... so true
Very well put. QTF.
Same concept as dictator need to suppress it's people. And to think that player in the state would appreciate the value of freedom. Kudos for continuing support for censorship
good laughs from this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9C9OKMyZng
after the ToR beta nda lifted i posted some major concerns about the game and the way marketing was handled here and got a nice perma ban on my 8 year account even though i posted maturely and not really agressively....i guess if you mess with the affiliate $$$$$ from percentage cuts from linked box sales you WILL be censored.
Before release TOR was the holy grail (because it meant extra revenue for advertisers) now it is not so important
Sigh... Are there any sites out there aside from 4chan and reddit that do not use such aggressive censorship methods? Is there a site with a descent forum on the web that you can post on without fear of being censored?
Or do we need to make one?