So they plan to retain 800k by years end, so much for the WOW killer estimates. I do think that might be around the number though if I am being honest. I do not see it dropping to the 200k version like most. That being said I also think for the company, title and supposed budget that 800k retained would be a failure with those three things in consideration.
200 million Cost
2.2 Million sold @ $60 (not even calculating increases sales from collectos and digital collectors which accounted for at least 1 milion) = 132 Million
800k x $14 /month = 11.2 Million
143 Million as of today.... which means they may be in the hole for another 50-60 million. If the numbers stay the same, they break even in 5-6 months.
Let's assume they retain 500k subscribers for the next 2-3 years. That's 7 million a month and 84 million a year.
If it cost them ~200 million to develop the game for the past four (4) years... that means they're spending ~50 million a year in development and operating costs.
That still leaves them ~25 million dollars a year in pure profit.
Stop comparing games to WoW. By any objectie measure.... 25 million a year profit from a single game is very good.
What that tells me is that this game is going to be around for a VERY VERY long time, with constant patches and expansions. After that, I don't give a rip about how many "I'm canceling my sub" posts there are.
I don't need forum trolls telling me what games I should and shouldn't enjoy.
PS - Those of you who are saying this game will only have 200k a month subscribers are delusional. FFXIV, as big of a flop it was in the history of gaming still retains 50k.
85% of my guild is subbed and staying for the long haul. Go check out the general chat in game and you see NO ONE complaining... it's only the minority.
If this game has a steady 500k subscriber base... it's a financial success.....
No one is telling you what you should enjoy. Also would not say those who do not enjoy is a minority. If they plan to sell 2.2 million and retain 800k by years end then it would in theory be the minority who enjoyed the game. At the end of the day does not really matter but its always fun to discuss. To me with the things I mentioned the game with anything less than a million subs is a failure.
Failure? says who? You have to compare retention rates with the industry average.
If the industry average is that only 20% of people stick with an mmo after the frist month, and SWTOR has 36% (800k / 2.2 mill), then by definition it is a success.
Plus, it's never black and white. I've subbed, unsubbed and resubbed to mmo's for the past 8 years. SWTOR may not have reach expectations because some jack ass who doesun't understand anything about mmo's said they should ahve 2 million subscribers by the end of the first year. What is he/she basing that on.
If SWTOR maintains a 500k subscriber base, then that's the second largest subscriber base in North America.
The expectations were so high that they had no where else to go but down. But even if you aim for heaven and miss, you're still amongst the stars.
Objectively speaking, if this game is making millions of profit a year, than it is a success. I can't imagin this game every going F2P if it's bringing in a profit that justifies the development and maintainance costs.
The biggest mistake EA/Bioware made, was already before the project even started.
They licensed the Hero Engine. An unproven engine that now turned around and bit them in the butt... real hard!
For such an expensive project.... this was quite a gamble that turned sour on them.
In the past BioWare has done really well at creating their own engines... not sure what prompted the use of the Hero Engine... regardless, whats done is done.. and they aren't the only company using it. Lets hope others have more success.
The biggest mistake EA/Bioware made, was already before the project even started.
They licensed the Hero Engine. An unproven engine that now turned around and bit them in the butt... real hard!
For such an expensive project.... this was quite a gamble that turned sour on them.
In the past BioWare has done really well at creating their own engines... not sure what prompted the use of the Hero Engine... regardless, whats done is done.. and they aren't the only company using it. Lets hope others have more success.
They're tweaking the engine to create more responsiveness in pvp.... here's a link to a post by one of the devs released today.
"Hi everyone; I wanted to give you all an update on the ability delay situation.
Thanks to constructive feedback from the community, including some great videos, we were able to identify an issue that could cause abilities on global cooldown to appear available to the player, resulting in unresponsive/ignored player input. A fix for the issue is currently scheduled to go to the public test server with our next update.
Additionally, we have located an issue that would cause player input for certain instant abilities to fail in frantic combat situations, resulting in unpredictable and frustrating gameplay issues for the affected player. A fix for the issue is currently scheduled to go to the public test server with our next update.
Finally, our engineers have identified an issue introducing a significant delay between player input and ability execution in certain game situations, most notably (but not limited to) fast paced PvP. The magnitude of the delay varies with a number of factors, including processor hardware, but can, especially on dual core CPUs, result in a very perceivable reduction in game responsiveness. We are in the later stages of testing a fix for the problem and hope to be able to roll it out to the servers very soon.
We're still investigating a number of additional issues, along with some usability and quality of life improvements for responsiveness regarding player input, but the above mentioned developments should provide a very measurable improvement in combat responsiveness.
Thanks again for your patience and support and we hope to see you on the public test server to help us validate these improvements before pushing them to the live servers.
The biggest mistake EA/Bioware made, was already before the project even started.
They licensed the Hero Engine. An unproven engine that now turned around and bit them in the butt... real hard!
For such an expensive project.... this was quite a gamble that turned sour on them.
In the past BioWare has done really well at creating their own engines... not sure what prompted the use of the Hero Engine... regardless, whats done is done.. and they aren't the only company using it. Lets hope others have more success.
They're tweaking the engine to create more responsiveness in pvp.... here's a link to a post by one of the devs released today.
"Hi everyone; I wanted to give you all an update on the ability delay situation.
Thanks to constructive feedback from the community, including some great videos, we were able to identify an issue that could cause abilities on global cooldown to appear available to the player, resulting in unresponsive/ignored player input. A fix for the issue is currently scheduled to go to the public test server with our next update.
Additionally, we have located an issue that would cause player input for certain instant abilities to fail in frantic combat situations, resulting in unpredictable and frustrating gameplay issues for the affected player. A fix for the issue is currently scheduled to go to the public test server with our next update.
Finally, our engineers have identified an issue introducing a significant delay between player input and ability execution in certain game situations, most notably (but not limited to) fast paced PvP. The magnitude of the delay varies with a number of factors, including processor hardware, but can, especially on dual core CPUs, result in a very perceivable reduction in game responsiveness. We are in the later stages of testing a fix for the problem and hope to be able to roll it out to the servers very soon.
We're still investigating a number of additional issues, along with some usability and quality of life improvements for responsiveness regarding player input, but the above mentioned developments should provide a very measurable improvement in combat responsiveness.
Thanks again for your patience and support and we hope to see you on the public test server to help us validate these improvements before pushing them to the live servers.
Georg Zoeller
Principal Lead Combat Designer"
[Mod Edit]
This is really good news, IF they really managed to address this! As it was highly highly frustrating and I really lost count how many times I died due to abilities / medpacks refusing to activate on critical and hectic moments!
So again... if they really figured it out and managed to fix this..... I might get a "tiny" bit of faith back in the developers!
The question about the cost to make SWTOR is a fair one as it will ultimately impact revenue numbers. Obviously the larger the development cost, the more has to be taken from the gross revenue generated when the game was released, making more sales/higher subscription numbers a MUST.
Just want to point out that revenues are not dependent on cost. I'm guessing you meant to say profit....
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
So they plan to retain 800k by years end, so much for the WOW killer estimates. I do think that might be around the number though if I am being honest. I do not see it dropping to the 200k version like most. That being said I also think for the company, title and supposed budget that 800k retained would be a failure with those three things in consideration.
200 million Cost
2.2 Million sold @ $60 (not even calculating increases sales from collectos and digital collectors which accounted for at least 1 milion) = 132 Million
800k x $14 /month = 11.2 Million
143 Million as of today.... which means they may be in the hole for another 50-60 million. If the numbers stay the same, they break even in 5-6 months.
Let's assume they retain 500k subscribers for the next 2-3 years. That's 7 million a month and 84 million a year.
If it cost them ~200 million to develop the game for the past four (4) years... that means they're spending ~50 million a year in development and operating costs.
That still leaves them ~25 million dollars a year in pure profit.
Stop comparing games to WoW. By any objectie measure.... 25 million a year profit from a single game is very good.
What that tells me is that this game is going to be around for a VERY VERY long time, with constant patches and expansions. After that, I don't give a rip about how many "I'm canceling my sub" posts there are.
I don't need forum trolls telling me what games I should and shouldn't enjoy.
PS - Those of you who are saying this game will only have 200k a month subscribers are delusional. FFXIV, as big of a flop it was in the history of gaming still retains 50k.
85% of my guild is subbed and staying for the long haul. Go check out the general chat in game and you see NO ONE complaining... it's only the minority.
If this game has a steady 500k subscriber base... it's a financial success.....
Some good stuff here, you do however need to add in Lucas Arts cut.. which is rumored to be around the 35% range (I think it's more personally.. George Lucas is one greedy dude).
If there is one thing WoW, Rift etc have on SWTOR from a profit stand point, is that they own their own IP, EA doesn't here.
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
RIFT
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
RIFT
I played Rift for 6 months and enjoyed it. I quit because macros ruined the game. You could optimize the rotation into three to four macros... that aside.
Rift came with A LOT of content, however, unlike SWTOR none of the content had the depth of story and the voice acting. In rift, just like in WoW, I would pick up 10 quests, NEVER read the story nor care for it, go kill mobs, return to quest hub.. turn it in, then move ot the next quest hub.
Even assuming that Rift had as much "content," it lackluster compared to SWTOR because the content is shallow. YES, voice acting means that much to me because I actually care about my character... there's a rhyme and reason why i'M going to a certain person on a certain planet.
My contention still stands, SWTOR has offered more content (deeper content) than any other mmo ever released. 200 million well spent. I have KOTOR 3 - 15 i one game, with mmo components and pvp.
I played Rift for 6 months and enjoyed it. I quit because macros ruined the game. You could optimize the rotation into three to four macros... that aside.
Rift came with A LOT of content, however, unlike SWTOR none of the content had the depth of story and the voice acting. In rift, just like in WoW, I would pick up 10 quests, NEVER read the story nor care for it, go kill mobs, return to quest hub.. turn it in, then move ot the next quest hub.
Even assuming that Rift had as much "content," it lackluster compared to SWTOR because the content is shallow. YES, voice acting means that much to me because I actually care about my character... there's a rhyme and reason why i'M going to a certain person on a certain planet.
My contention still stands, SWTOR has offered more content (deeper content) than any other mmo ever released. 200 million well spent. I have KOTOR 3 - 15 i one game, with mmo components and pvp.
SWTOR was exactly what I was waiting for.
Excuse me and I don't mean to be abrupt but what on earth are you talking about?
Just because the personal story of each character is deeper than other mmos that doesn't make ALL it's content deep.
The flashpoints / operations are AT LEAST the same as most others with some being much worse than other games.
I'm suprised you mention PvP... I don't think there has been a multiplayer game in the history of gaming that has failed on this aspect as much as SWTOR has. I'm pretty sure, and yes I am exagerating a bit, the designer from PONG could have done a better job.
MMO components?... most of them are missing and those that are in there work sub par or at best the same as 99% of games out there... with the emphasis on "sub par".
Kotor 3 - 15 ?... don't you find that comment to be a tad exagerating?.. I know it was popular around beta n' all.. but seriously... there's only going to be a ridiculously small minority who are going to be fanboy/bored/insane enough to go through ALL the stories and more importantly repeat ALL the side quests over and over again (korean grinders would be very proud)... and still you wouldn't come close to what you would have seen in THIRTEEN singleplayer KOTOR games......
for the love of Cthulhu it's ok to like the game.. but try and restrain yourself from overrating a game to such a ridiculous degree.
Ok, for anyone who doesn't understand economics, having something have 800'000 subscribers by the end of a companies fiscal year merely means that when the company pays out it's dividends, it is considered the end of it's fiscal year (or sometimes companies pay dividends more frequently). This means that EA will have 800'000 subscribers in March (it's own end of fiscal year).
IMO potentionaly biggest problem for financial success of SWTOR are terms of using SW IP. We dont know anything about how much they payed for IP and how much they will have to pay from future revenue. Even though I despise Kotick, it is pretty hard to not believe him that dealing with Lucas is expensive ...
You simply cant compare needed amount of boxes sold for Rift and SWTOR, Trion doesnt have any hidden additional payments from its revenue, but I realy doubt that Lucas doesnt have significant cut from SWTOR boxes and subs and if he doesnt have any I bet EA payed premium price for this kind license.
I played Rift for 6 months and enjoyed it. I quit because macros ruined the game. You could optimize the rotation into three to four macros... that aside.
Rift came with A LOT of content, however, unlike SWTOR none of the content had the depth of story and the voice acting. In rift, just like in WoW, I would pick up 10 quests, NEVER read the story nor care for it, go kill mobs, return to quest hub.. turn it in, then move ot the next quest hub.
Even assuming that Rift had as much "content," it lackluster compared to SWTOR because the content is shallow. YES, voice acting means that much to me because I actually care about my character... there's a rhyme and reason why i'M going to a certain person on a certain planet.
My contention still stands, SWTOR has offered more content (deeper content) than any other mmo ever released. 200 million well spent. I have KOTOR 3 - 15 i one game, with mmo components and pvp.
SWTOR was exactly what I was waiting for.
Excuse me and I don't mean to be abrupt but what on earth are you talking about?
Just because the personal story of each character is deeper than other mmos that doesn't make ALL it's content deep.
The flashpoints / operations are AT LEAST the same as most others with some being much worse than other games.
I'm suprised you mention PvP... I don't think there has been a multiplayer game in the history of gaming that has failed on this aspect as much as SWTOR has. I'm pretty sure, and yes I am exagerating a bit, the designer from PONG could have done a better job.
MMO components?... most of them are missing and those that are in there work sub par or at best the same as 99% of games out there... with the emphasis on "sub par".
Kotor 3 - 15 ?... don't you find that comment to be a tad exagerating?.. I know it was popular around beta n' all.. but seriously... there's only going to be a ridiculously small minority who are going to be fanboy/bored/insane enough to go through ALL the stories and more importantly repeat ALL the side quests over and over again (korean grinders would be very proud)... and still you wouldn't come close to what you would have seen in THIRTEEN singleplayer KOTOR games......
for the love of Cthulhu it's ok to like the game.. but try and restrain yourself from overrating a game to such a ridiculous degree.
I was trying to keep my fanboism proportional to the claim that SWTOR did not have any content compared to other MMOS....
Assuming that the 200 million is correct for cost, 2.2 million copies of the client are sold, and 800k subs every month... Figure 60% of sales (using an average of $70/copy), and 80% of subs can be applied to cover the initial investment (All very generous numbers)
That works out to roughly 13 months to break even.
Not that bad really. There are costs not accounted for in there, and the reality is that it will take closer to 2 years to see an actual profit, but on the other hand this also doesn't take into account merchandise, books, comics and the inevitable "shiney" cash shop item(s).
Not a success by Trion standards, but not quite a disasTOR.
Of course if it turns out the rumored 300 or 500 million is more accurate in terms of costs, or the game isn't able to hold as many subs as assumed, things could become problematic.
Same...would overall love a refund on the game, but I do think leveling from 1 to 49 was decent. The story was pretty fun for sorc. I probably could have passed on the game overall, especially after experiencing what little end game there is for a 200 million (?) dollar game. Pretty apalling actually.
For people saying others rushed through the amazing story by hitting spacebar, I have to laugh. Most people who play casually in my guild (around 2 hours a night) have already hit 50 and took their time through the story, including myself. It was a great story for most classes, but let's not kid ourselves about how much story is really in the game.
Hero engine is what truly killed it for me, and I'm not convinced after 1.1 that BW knows how to program effectively at all whether it be for optimization or pvp objectives. My issues go much deeper though in terms of what is available for someone to do. I would never honestly expect someone to keep paying a monthly fee for what BW has provided for us at endgame. Serious lack of content and instance/raids that are a joke (either buggy as hell or ridiculously easy). I wanted so bad to love this game and for it to provide me something to do, especially after getting burned on FFXIV. I find myself playing my PS3 way more than TOR already though...
It was a number thrown out by a legitimate news source. We will all know in about 2 weeks when EA releases its financials so it's probably a moot point but one worth speculating on with regard to the larger picture painted by the warring stockbrokers.
Yep and I'm sure you are licking your chops to see some kind of underwhemling number come out of it. Can't wait to read that story.....
Same...would overall love a refund on the game, but I do think leveling from 1 to 49 was decent. The story was pretty fun for sorc. I probably could have passed on the game overall, especially after experiencing what little end game there is for a 200 million (?) dollar game. Pretty apalling actually.
For people saying others rushed through the amazing story by hitting spacebar, I have to laugh. Most people who play casually in my guild (around 2 hours a night) have already hit 50 and took their time through the story, including myself. It was a great story for most classes, but let's not kid ourselves about how much story is really in the game.
Hero engine is what truly killed it for me, and I'm not convinced after 1.1 that BW knows how to program effectively at all whether it be for optimization or pvp objectives. My issues go much deeper though in terms of what is available for someone to do. I would never honestly expect someone to keep paying a monthly fee for what BW has provided for us at endgame. Serious lack of content and instance/raids that are a joke (either buggy as hell or ridiculously easy). I wanted so bad to love this game and for it to provide me something to do, especially after getting burned on FFXIV. I find myself playing my PS3 way more than TOR already though...
I spend $60 buck on video games that I play to death in about a month. SWTOR is no different so even if I thought the end game was too crappy, I would still consider the game a good purchase.
So they plan to retain 800k by years end, so much for the WOW killer estimates. I do think that might be around the number though if I am being honest. I do not see it dropping to the 200k version like most. That being said I also think for the company, title and supposed budget that 800k retained would be a failure with those three things in consideration.
200 million Cost
2.2 Million sold @ $60 (not even calculating increases sales from collectos and digital collectors which accounted for at least 1 milion) = 132 Million
800k x $14 /month = 11.2 Million
143 Million as of today.... which means they may be in the hole for another 50-60 million. If the numbers stay the same, they break even in 5-6 months.
You are assuming they keep the entire amount of the sale. When sold by a retailer like Amzon, Gamestop, Best Buy a developer normlly only gets 25% back on the sale. But with digital copies they make a much higehr % of the sale. Now days the industry avergae is over 50% of pre-release sales come from digital sales. The digital sales sold by Bioware will net them a 100% of the sale price. But the digital sales by retailiers again will be 25%. Mostt likely the numbers average out to whre Bioware will recover a little less than 50% of the total pre-release sales..
Looking at your number Bioware should have got back about $65 million in revenue to offset their $200 million cost + whatever interest if any they will pay. Not even mentioning the money lost by not investing that money elsewhere. So at this point it would be fair to say they are 135 million in the hole plus any interest + the ongoing costs of running and maintaining and advertising the game each month.
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
Sorry, but can't you be any more wrong than that? 16 individual story lines? Really?
There are 8 individual story lines. One per class. 4 total on each faction!
Smuggler, Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, Trooper on Republic side.
Advanced classes share the same storyline based on their start class.
So if you go for Jedi Sage and later roll a Jedi Shadow.... your storyline will be the EXACT same thing all over again.
I rolled a Jedi Sage to play with my gf as support class... I would love to try out a Shadow as well later on, but the idea of doing 100% the EXACT same thing all over again is what is stopping me!
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
Sorry, but can't you be any more wrong than that? 16 individual story lines? Really?
There are 8 individual story lines. One per class. 4 total on each faction!
Smuggler, Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, Trooper on Republic side.
Advanced classes share the same storyline based on their start class.
So if you go for Jedi Sage and later roll a Jedi Shadow.... your storyline will be the EXACT same thing all over again.
Wrong because if you picked all light on that sage and on your shadow picked all dark questions then the storyline will chane IN DIALOG ONLY immensly.
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
Sorry, but can't you be any more wrong than that? 16 individual story lines? Really?
There are 8 individual story lines. One per class. 4 total on each faction!
Smuggler, Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, Trooper on Republic side.
Advanced classes share the same storyline based on their start class.
So if you go for Jedi Sage and later roll a Jedi Shadow.... your storyline will be the EXACT same thing all over again.
Wrong because if you picked all light on that sage and on your shadow picked all dark questions then the storyline will chane IN DIALOG ONLY immensly.
All the missions and objectives stay the exact same. Chosing light or dark doesn't have any impact on the storyline at all, other than the Dark/Light side bar on your character sheet and affection gain for your companions.
This was actually a big complaint and a huge dissapointment by many, that your dark/light choices have ZERO impact on your storyline! It's just another grind mechanism for rewards.
Sorry, but it's futile to make up something that doesn't exist! There are 8 storylines! 4 on each faction! That's it. And no matter how hard you try to twist and turn it... it won't magically double to 16!
Comments
The biggest mistake EA/Bioware made, was already before the project even started.
They licensed the Hero Engine. An unproven engine that now turned around and bit them in the butt... real hard!
For such an expensive project.... this was quite a gamble that turned sour on them.
I think I like you.
In the past BioWare has done really well at creating their own engines... not sure what prompted the use of the Hero Engine... regardless, whats done is done.. and they aren't the only company using it. Lets hope others have more success.
They're tweaking the engine to create more responsiveness in pvp.... here's a link to a post by one of the devs released today.
http://www.swtor.com/blog/georg-zoeller-gives-update-ability-delay
"Hi everyone; I wanted to give you all an update on the ability delay situation.
Thanks to constructive feedback from the community, including some great videos, we were able to identify an issue that could cause abilities on global cooldown to appear available to the player, resulting in unresponsive/ignored player input. A fix for the issue is currently scheduled to go to the public test server with our next update.
Additionally, we have located an issue that would cause player input for certain instant abilities to fail in frantic combat situations, resulting in unpredictable and frustrating gameplay issues for the affected player. A fix for the issue is currently scheduled to go to the public test server with our next update.
Finally, our engineers have identified an issue introducing a significant delay between player input and ability execution in certain game situations, most notably (but not limited to) fast paced PvP. The magnitude of the delay varies with a number of factors, including processor hardware, but can, especially on dual core CPUs, result in a very perceivable reduction in game responsiveness. We are in the later stages of testing a fix for the problem and hope to be able to roll it out to the servers very soon.
We're still investigating a number of additional issues, along with some usability and quality of life improvements for responsiveness regarding player input, but the above mentioned developments should provide a very measurable improvement in combat responsiveness.
Thanks again for your patience and support and we hope to see you on the public test server to help us validate these improvements before pushing them to the live servers.
Georg Zoeller
Principal Lead Combat Designer"
[Mod Edit]
This is really good news, IF they really managed to address this! As it was highly highly frustrating and I really lost count how many times I died due to abilities / medpacks refusing to activate on critical and hectic moments!
So again... if they really figured it out and managed to fix this..... I might get a "tiny" bit of faith back in the developers!
Just want to point out that revenues are not dependent on cost. I'm guessing you meant to say profit....
200 Million Dollars? Seriously?
Other MMO's had more content on launch day and cost about 75% (estimated) less. Sure they did not have voice overs, but who cares really? I ended up hitting the space bar during most conversations in Star Wars: The Old Republic just to get to the dark side options of speech, that was the only parts I listened to.
So I hope, we as consumers, ask for some more flash in the content department for just our subscription fees. But I have a feeling any huge content additions will be 'boosters' or 'expansion packs' that are charged like DLC. Which, in my opinion, is lame.
I did not resub, only because I blew through the game in 3 weeks and I never had the sense of an actual adventure when I deviated from the story. If they give me something to do, or maybe add some discreet time sinks, I will gladly come back.
I'm not saying the game sucks or trying to dissaude people from enjoying it.
I'm saying that we as consumers need to get our heads out of our asses and start getting some damn value from our purchases.
I humbly disagree.
You skipped the "content" by pressing the space bar and complain that there is no content.
I don't know any other game with more content at release. Each advanced class has its own story (8 each side, x2 Advanced classes for 16 individual story lines).
15 Flashpoints with Normal, Hard and Very Hard Modes
4 Warfronts
2 Raids
14+ Planets with normal quests, heroic quests, bonus quests.
5 companions with their own story arc
I really feel people are trolling when they there is no content.
What you should be saying is that "I hated the type of content provided in this game." That i can agree with because it's an opinion, but to say there's no content is a flat out lie.
Some good stuff here, you do however need to add in Lucas Arts cut.. which is rumored to be around the 35% range (I think it's more personally.. George Lucas is one greedy dude).
If there is one thing WoW, Rift etc have on SWTOR from a profit stand point, is that they own their own IP, EA doesn't here.
RIFT
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I played Rift for 6 months and enjoyed it. I quit because macros ruined the game. You could optimize the rotation into three to four macros... that aside.
Rift came with A LOT of content, however, unlike SWTOR none of the content had the depth of story and the voice acting. In rift, just like in WoW, I would pick up 10 quests, NEVER read the story nor care for it, go kill mobs, return to quest hub.. turn it in, then move ot the next quest hub.
Even assuming that Rift had as much "content," it lackluster compared to SWTOR because the content is shallow. YES, voice acting means that much to me because I actually care about my character... there's a rhyme and reason why i'M going to a certain person on a certain planet.
My contention still stands, SWTOR has offered more content (deeper content) than any other mmo ever released. 200 million well spent. I have KOTOR 3 - 15 i one game, with mmo components and pvp.
SWTOR was exactly what I was waiting for.
Excuse me and I don't mean to be abrupt but what on earth are you talking about?
Just because the personal story of each character is deeper than other mmos that doesn't make ALL it's content deep.
The flashpoints / operations are AT LEAST the same as most others with some being much worse than other games.
I'm suprised you mention PvP... I don't think there has been a multiplayer game in the history of gaming that has failed on this aspect as much as SWTOR has. I'm pretty sure, and yes I am exagerating a bit, the designer from PONG could have done a better job.
MMO components?... most of them are missing and those that are in there work sub par or at best the same as 99% of games out there... with the emphasis on "sub par".
Kotor 3 - 15 ?... don't you find that comment to be a tad exagerating?.. I know it was popular around beta n' all.. but seriously... there's only going to be a ridiculously small minority who are going to be fanboy/bored/insane enough to go through ALL the stories and more importantly repeat ALL the side quests over and over again (korean grinders would be very proud)... and still you wouldn't come close to what you would have seen in THIRTEEN singleplayer KOTOR games......
for the love of Cthulhu it's ok to like the game.. but try and restrain yourself from overrating a game to such a ridiculous degree.
..Cake..
IMO potentionaly biggest problem for financial success of SWTOR are terms of using SW IP. We dont know anything about how much they payed for IP and how much they will have to pay from future revenue. Even though I despise Kotick, it is pretty hard to not believe him that dealing with Lucas is expensive ...
You simply cant compare needed amount of boxes sold for Rift and SWTOR, Trion doesnt have any hidden additional payments from its revenue, but I realy doubt that Lucas doesnt have significant cut from SWTOR boxes and subs and if he doesnt have any I bet EA payed premium price for this kind license.
I was trying to keep my fanboism proportional to the claim that SWTOR did not have any content compared to other MMOS....
Assuming that the 200 million is correct for cost, 2.2 million copies of the client are sold, and 800k subs every month... Figure 60% of sales (using an average of $70/copy), and 80% of subs can be applied to cover the initial investment (All very generous numbers)
That works out to roughly 13 months to break even.
Not that bad really. There are costs not accounted for in there, and the reality is that it will take closer to 2 years to see an actual profit, but on the other hand this also doesn't take into account merchandise, books, comics and the inevitable "shiney" cash shop item(s).
Not a success by Trion standards, but not quite a disasTOR.
Of course if it turns out the rumored 300 or 500 million is more accurate in terms of costs, or the game isn't able to hold as many subs as assumed, things could become problematic.
waste of money
i wish i could get a refund
Same...would overall love a refund on the game, but I do think leveling from 1 to 49 was decent. The story was pretty fun for sorc. I probably could have passed on the game overall, especially after experiencing what little end game there is for a 200 million (?) dollar game. Pretty apalling actually.
For people saying others rushed through the amazing story by hitting spacebar, I have to laugh. Most people who play casually in my guild (around 2 hours a night) have already hit 50 and took their time through the story, including myself. It was a great story for most classes, but let's not kid ourselves about how much story is really in the game.
Hero engine is what truly killed it for me, and I'm not convinced after 1.1 that BW knows how to program effectively at all whether it be for optimization or pvp objectives. My issues go much deeper though in terms of what is available for someone to do. I would never honestly expect someone to keep paying a monthly fee for what BW has provided for us at endgame. Serious lack of content and instance/raids that are a joke (either buggy as hell or ridiculously easy). I wanted so bad to love this game and for it to provide me something to do, especially after getting burned on FFXIV. I find myself playing my PS3 way more than TOR already though...
Yep and I'm sure you are licking your chops to see some kind of underwhemling number come out of it. Can't wait to read that story.....
I spend $60 buck on video games that I play to death in about a month. SWTOR is no different so even if I thought the end game was too crappy, I would still consider the game a good purchase.
You are assuming they keep the entire amount of the sale. When sold by a retailer like Amzon, Gamestop, Best Buy a developer normlly only gets 25% back on the sale. But with digital copies they make a much higehr % of the sale. Now days the industry avergae is over 50% of pre-release sales come from digital sales. The digital sales sold by Bioware will net them a 100% of the sale price. But the digital sales by retailiers again will be 25%. Mostt likely the numbers average out to whre Bioware will recover a little less than 50% of the total pre-release sales..
Looking at your number Bioware should have got back about $65 million in revenue to offset their $200 million cost + whatever interest if any they will pay. Not even mentioning the money lost by not investing that money elsewhere. So at this point it would be fair to say they are 135 million in the hole plus any interest + the ongoing costs of running and maintaining and advertising the game each month.
Sorry, but can't you be any more wrong than that? 16 individual story lines? Really?
There are 8 individual story lines. One per class. 4 total on each faction!
Smuggler, Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, Trooper on Republic side.
Advanced classes share the same storyline based on their start class.
So if you go for Jedi Sage and later roll a Jedi Shadow.... your storyline will be the EXACT same thing all over again.
I rolled a Jedi Sage to play with my gf as support class... I would love to try out a Shadow as well later on, but the idea of doing 100% the EXACT same thing all over again is what is stopping me!
Wrong because if you picked all light on that sage and on your shadow picked all dark questions then the storyline will chane IN DIALOG ONLY immensly.
All the missions and objectives stay the exact same. Chosing light or dark doesn't have any impact on the storyline at all, other than the Dark/Light side bar on your character sheet and affection gain for your companions.
This was actually a big complaint and a huge dissapointment by many, that your dark/light choices have ZERO impact on your storyline! It's just another grind mechanism for rewards.
Sorry, but it's futile to make up something that doesn't exist! There are 8 storylines! 4 on each faction! That's it. And no matter how hard you try to twist and turn it... it won't magically double to 16!