If anything WOW brought gaming into the mainstream. So no, they didnt destroy the genre they actually took it out of the basement and made it a booming business. Dont like what games are offered? Play the old games that were so much better, there are a few still around.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
If anything WOW brought gaming into the mainstream. So no, they didnt destroy the genre they actually took it out of the basement and made it a booming business. Dont like what games are offered? Play the old games that were so much better, there are a few still around.
I WANT my UO2 with my hot pockets. Come on E.A., save the day! (Yea right., lol)
Sometimes its good to think deep. Some times it good just to play games.
If anything WOW brought gaming into the mainstream. So no, they didnt destroy the genre they actually took it out of the basement and made it a booming business. Dont like what games are offered? Play the old games that were so much better, there are a few still around.
I WANT my UO2 with my hot pockets. Come on E.A., save the day! (Yea right., lol)
I liked the Capt. Crunch clicky better myself
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Everyone wanting to make the next WoW, by making it like WoW made the industry a little stale for 5-7 years for the most part.
The development cycle is showing that people have decided that they need to do something different.
Hopefully TSW, GW2, ArcheAge, and others will give us something new and fresh, with some good ideas.
SWTOR tried something a little different by meshing a single player story game with an MMO, and I think it dilutes both to where they are no good as a whole...The individual story doesn't develop enough, being that it is an mmo, atleast the way they did it....Then they worked on the single story aspect so much, that the MMO part is lacking many things that most MMOs have had for the past 5 years, to even a decade+ on some....
WoW itself didn't destroy gameplay of MMORPGs. It's the other 99% of other developers out there that can't fathom anything different towards their own road to success.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Lady Gaga is currently the biggest selling music artist it the world. Same old sells, new is an unknown.
See x-factor/pop idol/glee. They make millions in recycled old songs repacked for the mindless masses who lap it up and pay for it. MMO gamers are part of that same demographic, they just bitch more.
Lady Gaga is currently the biggest selling music artist it the world. She is also fighting law suits from a number of 80s and 90s artists for paligamy so obvious it can be seen as break of trademark.
Innovation is good for sitting in a cafe, smoking french cigarettes and talking about how everyone else is stupid and only you and your small group of friends 'get it'.
For big business, people buy what is trendy. What is trendy? Whatever they tell you is trendy this month. Why on earth do you think Simon Cowell makes so much money from the brainless multitudes who take his spoon fed, cynically created 'talents' from x-factor and britain/america's got talent?
People will follow the trends regardless as they don't have the mind to think for themselves. Swtor is getting bashed to high heaven just now, not because it is bad (it just might be) but because thats what they are supposed to do. GW2 will be next, them diablo 3 and so on.
What is great about this site is just how desperate many tolls are to get the validation of their peers to be seen as part fo a group. It certainly makes for an interesting microcosm of otherwise socially excluded underachievers.
Get on one ride then get in line and wait for the next one. That can't be right, then this would sound more like a Themepark or is it.
my opinion is that WoW set the genere at level no post-WoW developers have reach because they want to earn all the money Blizzard earned with WoW so they dont want to be better than WoW, they want to be WoW re-skinned.
Thats my opinion, no need to say its true or false here
edit: i agree with the post above this one too. The consumer has an influence on mmo development. IF you are willing to pay for a game that does not make the genre better, then you are telling (without words) that developers are doing it well.
Dunno, music's been relatively dead (creatively) for at least thirty years now.
No worries, every half-century (plus or minus) we get an entirely new genre that outlasts the decade it was created in.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is such a old question, but has many answers I think. Did it save MMORPGS? Yes. Did it Destory MMORPGS? Yes. The quality work on WoW is so high and its been going for so long, everyone will compare a new MMO to it, and there is no chance for anything to ever compare to that unless they spend years and years in development making sure they launch with tons of content for any level to do.
So many people can't enjoy newer MMOs for the reasons above. They just can't compare, but they shouldn't. Its not fair comparing a new game to one thats been going for so much longer. I think the MMO community is destorying MMORPGS personally. Yes, the new MMOs do have flaws, but guess what, WoW did also. FFXIV is a great example of this. It was the worst launch of any game I've ever seen. I wrote it off as a dead MMO. Square Enix is putting so much work and effort into it, thats its turning into a great game. Will this game ever get a second chance though? No, it won't. In the MMO world you get one shot at greatness and if you fail, its over. Who's fault is that though? Yeah, its our fault. We want perfection at launch, but that isn't something you should always expect.
I do have hope for a bright future though. Guild Wars 2 is taking its sweet time(as many of you know) but this is a good sign. They know they need to have everything as perfect as possible. Have tons of content the moment its released. Future MMOs are gonna need to step it up to this quality if they want to succeed in this market.
Also on the subject of re-using the same style for MMOs. Fantasy, sci-fi, wild west, etc. Do you know how dangerous it is to go out and try something new in this genre? The reason we keep getting the same type of MMOs is cause they have proved to be successful. Is this a good enough reason to keep repeating the process? Hell no. You need to keep in mind though, if you're making a MMO, and you want to innovate and try to change what the norm is, who is gonna fund you? Is someone gonna give you millions of dollars for you to gamble on something that may fail? The risk is too high for most to try to gamble like that. So they just do the tried and tested method. Its not so easy in just complaining that you want new and interesting stuff. If you want something like I described, go make millions and invest in a indie company willing to gamble.
I skipped UO, EQ and SWG because they didn't offer me anything interesting to me. UO released horribly and had harsh penalties on death. EQ had horrendous graphics, required grouping to level and had people sitting around for hours waiting for spawns. SWG didn't take advantage of the XWing vs. Tie Fighter crowd and you couldn't simply start as a force user. From what I remember it was random and you had to level up just to find out if your character could be a force user.
WOW changed that and got me to commit to MMOs. I tried the open beta and loved it. I bought it and became a hardcore raider and later a hardcore pvper. I've since burned out on MMO content that requires me to schedule time to do content or use ventrillo.
The problem is that other developers haven't figured out how to use blzzards formula against them. Namely, take the good things from WOW and leave out the bad and add some new things of your own.
If not for WoW, 'sub of 500k' will be considered gigantic and people will laugh at you if you say 'I play MMOs'.
Social stigma of MMOs were very real back in the UO/EQ days.
Honestly i prefered MMO's back when they weren't popular & you didn't have things like chuck norris jokes and other idiotic meme's and such being spouted in global chat channels & I didn't fear for the future of humanity on the internet..
Something about that social stigma that you described actually kept a great deal of the unruley/immature people away from the games & it was good for them.
No it didn't, like others here I say it saved MMOs. Now as far as did it kill the RPG in MMORPG then that would be a different answer and would say yes it did.
In short WoW turned MMOs from an ashamed admittance to an acceptable hobby.. MMOs at WoW adolesnce was very hardcore to the point that it was a cancer to society. What WoW turned into in todays age is only was the gamers allowed it to be.
I don't think so. They brought MMOs to the masses. The industry is MUCH bigger than it was before WoW. Look at the many new games coming out all the time. Sure, many of them try to emulate WoW, but you can probably count on two hands the MMO game choices at the time WoW came out.
Now, on the other hand, have games changed because of WoW? Most certainly. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Depends upon on the individual viewpoint
WoW is not a terrible game. It just happens to be the big boy on the block. It has changed the industry, but not "destroyed" it as asked
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Thats right before Wow, people said "Ok, don't know what mmo's is but sound interesting" Now they laugh because every one seen and heard about all the crazy kids playing more than they study for school. I liked it better before, and now people will say and some already did "Then go back to your old MMO" Thats the problem, its destroyed by Wow too. So I can say it destroy MMO's for sure. Every one want to have the same 9 mill subs and not just make a good game
When World of Warcraft released there was a boom in broadband accessibility. Everyone could get on the net at acceptable prices, so naturally when those new players looked for a game to make use of their new internets they found World of Warcraft a fluid, low demand on the old graphics game. It was marketed well and basically rid the wave to the top.
Some things it did really well.
Low demand on most PCs to run it, even ancient PCs now can managed to run it, hell my phone could probably run it.
Fluid animations and combat.
No loading times.
Good looking stylish graphics for the time it released which have held up well.
Now as to why it killed the market.
The market began creating clone games when WoW released because they made so much money. Unfortunately no one challeneged them soon enough with the same model and core features I listed above. EQ2 was the main contender when World of Warcraft released and its demand on graphics, loading times, and terrible animations cost it big.
Now we have a big problem. I can create a game just like it, say Rift for example. Sadly for Rift it's like going against a grown man as a five year old. World of Warcraft has established communities packs of content and still rides its cartoon graphics.
What we are waiting for is a team to challenge the features of World of Warcraft. Only then will it be toppled.
The one that beats it will need however those initial features that made WoW a hit, smooth, good graphics, low demand on the PC playing it.
I think the one to beat it will come from a hybrid model, basically take the harder elements out of the sandbox, full loot, full pvp. Throw in consensual sieges and pvp, instances and all that jazz.
no they didn't. In fact even tho im not a fan of what's happening right now with their idiot dev Ghostcrawler, I have to say that WoW in general did actually bring many good ideas and some of those ideas turned out to be mainstays in the mmorpg design. Unfortunately, for new mmo devs, they now have to innovate the old styles of gaming in new ways to keep up or what happens is what happened to SWTOR, they don't have anywhere near WoW's numbers even though the majority of the game is and will be after their "fixes" become based on WoW's designs for overall gameplay. I have a large list of the similarities but i won't post it in this thread.
So no Blizz didn't kill mmo's with WoW and it's not their fault people think that they can copy them and get as many players as WoW has had That idea is the fault of the developers of new games.
The other major factor in games today is polish. Everyone expects every game to be polished ESPECIALLY if they are directly competing for WoW's players and that's just not going to happen on mmo's that are poorly managed. They gain a reputation after launch by making poor decisions when handling exploits and design flaws and then they see other people who have played that game leaving it to do something else or being banned and they end up with a huge problem with word of mouth giving them con advertising. The fault lies with the management.
Wow was not polished when it came out, and was down alooooot for fixes. I dont understand why people can't wait abit before bashing new games. It will need to be tested with mass loggings and all before they get it right. Even WoW went through that.
Comments
If anything WOW brought gaming into the mainstream. So no, they didnt destroy the genre they actually took it out of the basement and made it a booming business. Dont like what games are offered? Play the old games that were so much better, there are a few still around.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
I WANT my UO2 with my hot pockets. Come on E.A., save the day! (Yea right., lol)
Sometimes its good to think deep. Some times it good just to play games.
It's inspired numerous MMO's who have tried to compete. WoW is still the megaelephant of the herd though. Eat up, other elephants.
I liked the Capt. Crunch clicky better myself
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Everyone wanting to make the next WoW, by making it like WoW made the industry a little stale for 5-7 years for the most part.
The development cycle is showing that people have decided that they need to do something different.
Hopefully TSW, GW2, ArcheAge, and others will give us something new and fresh, with some good ideas.
SWTOR tried something a little different by meshing a single player story game with an MMO, and I think it dilutes both to where they are no good as a whole...The individual story doesn't develop enough, being that it is an mmo, atleast the way they did it....Then they worked on the single story aspect so much, that the MMO part is lacking many things that most MMOs have had for the past 5 years, to even a decade+ on some....
WoW itself didn't destroy gameplay of MMORPGs. It's the other 99% of other developers out there that can't fathom anything different towards their own road to success.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Lady Gaga is currently the biggest selling music artist it the world. Same old sells, new is an unknown.
See x-factor/pop idol/glee. They make millions in recycled old songs repacked for the mindless masses who lap it up and pay for it. MMO gamers are part of that same demographic, they just bitch more.
Get on one ride then get in line and wait for the next one. That can't be right, then this would sound more like a Themepark or is it.
/thread
no the consumer did...we showed the corporates that we will gladly give them $$$ no matter what scrap they throw to us
my opinion is that WoW set the genere at level no post-WoW developers have reach because they want to earn all the money Blizzard earned with WoW so they dont want to be better than WoW, they want to be WoW re-skinned.
Thats my opinion, no need to say its true or false here
edit: i agree with the post above this one too. The consumer has an influence on mmo development. IF you are willing to pay for a game that does not make the genre better, then you are telling (without words) that developers are doing it well.
Dunno, music's been relatively dead (creatively) for at least thirty years now.
No worries, every half-century (plus or minus) we get an entirely new genre that outlasts the decade it was created in.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WoW saved MMORPG and made it legitamate.
If not for WoW, 'sub of 500k' will be considered gigantic and people will laugh at you if you say 'I play MMOs'.
Social stigma of MMOs were very real back in the UO/EQ days.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
OK I would have to agree with this...But i still think devs could do somthing ground breaking if they had the financiall backing, and freedom.
Lip stick and hiar spray butt rock bands were poular for a while...It took a while for every one to quit copying them.
I guess we will just have to wait a while.
Sometimes its good to think deep. Some times it good just to play games.
This is such a old question, but has many answers I think. Did it save MMORPGS? Yes. Did it Destory MMORPGS? Yes. The quality work on WoW is so high and its been going for so long, everyone will compare a new MMO to it, and there is no chance for anything to ever compare to that unless they spend years and years in development making sure they launch with tons of content for any level to do.
So many people can't enjoy newer MMOs for the reasons above. They just can't compare, but they shouldn't. Its not fair comparing a new game to one thats been going for so much longer. I think the MMO community is destorying MMORPGS personally. Yes, the new MMOs do have flaws, but guess what, WoW did also. FFXIV is a great example of this. It was the worst launch of any game I've ever seen. I wrote it off as a dead MMO. Square Enix is putting so much work and effort into it, thats its turning into a great game. Will this game ever get a second chance though? No, it won't. In the MMO world you get one shot at greatness and if you fail, its over. Who's fault is that though? Yeah, its our fault. We want perfection at launch, but that isn't something you should always expect.
I do have hope for a bright future though. Guild Wars 2 is taking its sweet time(as many of you know) but this is a good sign. They know they need to have everything as perfect as possible. Have tons of content the moment its released. Future MMOs are gonna need to step it up to this quality if they want to succeed in this market.
Also on the subject of re-using the same style for MMOs. Fantasy, sci-fi, wild west, etc. Do you know how dangerous it is to go out and try something new in this genre? The reason we keep getting the same type of MMOs is cause they have proved to be successful. Is this a good enough reason to keep repeating the process? Hell no. You need to keep in mind though, if you're making a MMO, and you want to innovate and try to change what the norm is, who is gonna fund you? Is someone gonna give you millions of dollars for you to gamble on something that may fail? The risk is too high for most to try to gamble like that. So they just do the tried and tested method. Its not so easy in just complaining that you want new and interesting stuff. If you want something like I described, go make millions and invest in a indie company willing to gamble.
I skipped UO, EQ and SWG because they didn't offer me anything interesting to me. UO released horribly and had harsh penalties on death. EQ had horrendous graphics, required grouping to level and had people sitting around for hours waiting for spawns. SWG didn't take advantage of the XWing vs. Tie Fighter crowd and you couldn't simply start as a force user. From what I remember it was random and you had to level up just to find out if your character could be a force user.
WOW changed that and got me to commit to MMOs. I tried the open beta and loved it. I bought it and became a hardcore raider and later a hardcore pvper. I've since burned out on MMO content that requires me to schedule time to do content or use ventrillo.
The problem is that other developers haven't figured out how to use blzzards formula against them. Namely, take the good things from WOW and leave out the bad and add some new things of your own.
Honestly i prefered MMO's back when they weren't popular & you didn't have things like chuck norris jokes and other idiotic meme's and such being spouted in global chat channels & I didn't fear for the future of humanity on the internet..
Something about that social stigma that you described actually kept a great deal of the unruley/immature people away from the games & it was good for them.
No it didn't, like others here I say it saved MMOs. Now as far as did it kill the RPG in MMORPG then that would be a different answer and would say yes it did.
In short WoW turned MMOs from an ashamed admittance to an acceptable hobby.. MMOs at WoW adolesnce was very hardcore to the point that it was a cancer to society. What WoW turned into in todays age is only was the gamers allowed it to be.
I don't think so. They brought MMOs to the masses. The industry is MUCH bigger than it was before WoW. Look at the many new games coming out all the time. Sure, many of them try to emulate WoW, but you can probably count on two hands the MMO game choices at the time WoW came out.
Now, on the other hand, have games changed because of WoW? Most certainly. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Depends upon on the individual viewpoint
WoW is not a terrible game. It just happens to be the big boy on the block. It has changed the industry, but not "destroyed" it as asked
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Oh, look, another one who lives in a world where just UO, EQ1/2 and wow exist
But yes, wow made mmos popular amongs the non-gamers.
people started laughing at MMO players because of WoW.......
Thats right before Wow, people said "Ok, don't know what mmo's is but sound interesting" Now they laugh because every one seen and heard about all the crazy kids playing more than they study for school. I liked it better before, and now people will say and some already did "Then go back to your old MMO" Thats the problem, its destroyed by Wow too. So I can say it destroy MMO's for sure. Every one want to have the same 9 mill subs and not just make a good game
Zoos the Slacker
When World of Warcraft released there was a boom in broadband accessibility. Everyone could get on the net at acceptable prices, so naturally when those new players looked for a game to make use of their new internets they found World of Warcraft a fluid, low demand on the old graphics game. It was marketed well and basically rid the wave to the top.
Some things it did really well.
Low demand on most PCs to run it, even ancient PCs now can managed to run it, hell my phone could probably run it.
Fluid animations and combat.
No loading times.
Good looking stylish graphics for the time it released which have held up well.
Now as to why it killed the market.
The market began creating clone games when WoW released because they made so much money. Unfortunately no one challeneged them soon enough with the same model and core features I listed above. EQ2 was the main contender when World of Warcraft released and its demand on graphics, loading times, and terrible animations cost it big.
Now we have a big problem. I can create a game just like it, say Rift for example. Sadly for Rift it's like going against a grown man as a five year old. World of Warcraft has established communities packs of content and still rides its cartoon graphics.
What we are waiting for is a team to challenge the features of World of Warcraft. Only then will it be toppled.
The one that beats it will need however those initial features that made WoW a hit, smooth, good graphics, low demand on the PC playing it.
I think the one to beat it will come from a hybrid model, basically take the harder elements out of the sandbox, full loot, full pvp. Throw in consensual sieges and pvp, instances and all that jazz.
no they didn't. In fact even tho im not a fan of what's happening right now with their idiot dev Ghostcrawler, I have to say that WoW in general did actually bring many good ideas and some of those ideas turned out to be mainstays in the mmorpg design. Unfortunately, for new mmo devs, they now have to innovate the old styles of gaming in new ways to keep up or what happens is what happened to SWTOR, they don't have anywhere near WoW's numbers even though the majority of the game is and will be after their "fixes" become based on WoW's designs for overall gameplay. I have a large list of the similarities but i won't post it in this thread.
So no Blizz didn't kill mmo's with WoW and it's not their fault people think that they can copy them and get as many players as WoW has had That idea is the fault of the developers of new games.
The other major factor in games today is polish. Everyone expects every game to be polished ESPECIALLY if they are directly competing for WoW's players and that's just not going to happen on mmo's that are poorly managed. They gain a reputation after launch by making poor decisions when handling exploits and design flaws and then they see other people who have played that game leaving it to do something else or being banned and they end up with a huge problem with word of mouth giving them con advertising. The fault lies with the management.
Wow was not polished when it came out, and was down alooooot for fixes. I dont understand why people can't wait abit before bashing new games. It will need to be tested with mass loggings and all before they get it right. Even WoW went through that.
Zoos the Slacker