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Why did they decide to keep levels ?
aSynchro
Member UncommonPosts: 194
That must be the only thing i don't "get" about GW2: why didn't ANet make it level-less, like Ultima Online or The Secret World ?
They said that they want to remove grind.
DE are scallable, depending of who join them.
Your level auto-scale if you team with someone with a different level.
They want to scratch the end-game concept, thus there's no difference in content between leveling and max-level players.
They even said that the leveling curve will be linear (ie super fast).
They also want the players to focus on fun and horizontal farming (cosmetic gear, achievements etc.) instead of vertical farming (the mindless stats race)
So what's the point of having 80 levels ?
I could understand having just 20 levels like GW1, because it's a easy way to keep the new players appart and let them get use to the game mechanism with easier content. After a few days they reach 20 and can explore the whole -dangerous- world.
But 80 levels seem like a long way to me (at least 4-6 weeks if you play casual 2h/day).
Reguarding that problem, i've got two questions:
_ What will be the difference between, say, a level 57 and a level 73 ? I mean: pass the first levels when you discover how your class, the combats etc. work, what will you learn more except new spells/skills ?
_ As a low-level, will you be limited to some zones ? Or can you explore everything and creatures will scale with you ?
Comments
So you know how things get harder and harder right?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Level
- Stat point accumulation
- Unlock new armor with cooler look or better stats
- World map is divided by lvl. wouldn't make sense if a starter character was doing end game dungeon.
- because most rpg player like lvl
- Adding a sense of progression
All of this "apart of player like lvl" can be done perfectly fine wiothout levels.
NO WAY THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!
...not
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
One of the biggest complaints they had about GW was the low level cap, people like chasing that 'ding', I'm guessing that would have factored in to their decision. Personally I'd be happy without them but thankfully everything is geared towards making any level gap easily overcome with the sidekicking system. Attracting players who want that kind of progression while making sure mechanics don't constrain anyone in to it is a good move imho
It still need an element of progression somewhere. If it isn't level then it's something else.
Well i do hope the leveling curve is not as linear as OP says it ot be. I dont like fast progression leveling systems, and in the case of GW2 where i am expecting not much of an endgame content that would keep me playing more than 3-4 months, it is even worst.
I hope ANet realises that what makes people stay in a game is endgame content. If players get too fast to cap level and then burn endgame too fast, servers will vacate as usual no matter how good the game is.
From ArenaNet
Our goal with Guild Wars 2 is to flatten out the leveling curve, keeping progression simple and straightforward. We expect everyone to make a reasonable amount of progression with each play session. It shouldn’t take days of playing before you feel like you have made any progress, and you definitely shouldn’t have to kill a bunch of creatures or do a bunch of repetitive tasks just to see what’s over that next hill. We want our progression to keep up with your play style. If you’re a casual gamer who plays for a few hours here and there, why should you feel like it’s going to take you a decade to finish your character? If you’re a hardcore player, why shouldn’t you be able to blast through the game with skill and speed, trying to experience every last bit of content?So how did we accomplish our goals, you ask? Good question! First off, we set the level cap for the game at 80, but we made the time between levels rather short. Instead of taking longer and longer to reach each level, it takes about the same time to go through each level. It’s pretty simple; if we expect you to level up every few hours, then why shouldn’t it be that way all through the game?
In red
ArenaNet won't need to keep people playing since they don't charge a monthly fee. But expansion/content patch and pvp will probably keep people playing.
There is no "endgame." The entire game is still playable at 80, because the entire world is designed to be relevant at any level. There will be stuff happening in zones you traveled through at level 20 that you hadn't seen when you go back at 80.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Apparently, they considered making the game level-less, but people just couldn't relate to the concept. They've already done oodles to minimize the negatives of levels, while maintaining the positives. This is already a huge step forward and may provide a foundation for level-less titles in the future.
One thing I worry about when contemplating a level-less system is that the counterbalance to preserve some order and prevent the game from develving into complete chaos would have to be a more linear story and other systems to gate progress. Of course, you also can not underestimate the psychological need for progress that levels represent. Some already complain that GW2 doesn't do enough to reward progression with a steep gear and power curve, imagine if the game also lacked levels?
The amount of innovtion with GW2 is amazing. One thing that Arenanet has found, though, is that with all the innovation, they needed to make adjustments in presentation to allow people to adapt to the new way of presenting MMO systems and content. It would be completely possible to create the most elegant and original re-imagining of the MMO that would be perfect on paper, but fail because it would require to much from players and their ability to cmpletely readjust their expectations and perceptions.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Honestly level or not really don't make much a difference its more how the game is build than if it have level or not. DF was a skill based game, but damn it felt even worth that some super xp grind like L2, so it really mean nothing, its more the intention behind really. What i would have loved is skill rather than class though, but its probably better for good pvp.
they decided to do levels becuase throughout the game you will come across dungeons that have a required level for you to enter it, so you just cant come across a dungeon and enter it if your not high enough, that makes you go out and do dynamic events to level to get to come back to the higher dungeons.
Skill grind like in UO are just another type of level grind.
Archlinux ftw
With the way the scaling works, levels don't make much of a difference anyway. I suppose it is a way for people to gauge their progress that they are used to.
It would without levels too.
Goop point OP, yeah maybe they should have kicked levels altogether. I think they left them in so many people will feel familiar with the game.
But you would still need some mechanics that makes your character better as you play. A skill based system alá Darkfall just don´t cut it.
Maybe something close to EQ2s AA or better, something like Shadowruns (P&P) karma.
The same reason many games that have them: brag rights.
Look at COD, you have completely meaningless levels that even leave you weaker as you go up... it is similair to GW2, based on skill, but GW2 doesn't make you weaker.
Look at Skyrim (or any single player rpg). The reason is to give you this false sense of accomplishment by a) Getting that awesomer skill or b) killing that awesomer monster.
In MMORPGs it is practically the same, but with one difference- you are watching the healthbar more than anything else.
Look a Zelda. Link never levels. It is based on skill, very similair to GW2, CoD, etc.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Im sorry, but that sounds too much like GW. I hope that doesnt happen in GW2. I dont want to burn content out and spend the time waiting for new content grinding for some tittles and doing PvP. I like it, i have fun playing it, but i get bored quickly if all there is at the end is that. OFC that is just me
That sounds just about right
tittles? i'm only 12, what is this?
(edited for a sillier line)
they kept levels, yet the game is far more innovative and different from the norm than The Secret World.
check out TSW footage. tank/healer/dps and instead of leveling your character you have to spend your time levleling up skills.
it'll play just like the MMO's that came before it,.
Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPS1SvmVHI#t=4m0s
Exhibit B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk57oisDDJ0
i'll take what Anet is cooking. have fun grinding 50 - 80 skill levels.
I think the levels are going to exist for the same reason ranks in FPS games exist. Some people just need those baby step rewards to continue until they reach an ultimate goal in a game. In the case of the FPS game genre, this is usually a gun or some other perk that is nice to have, but it is not needed. I think GW2 wants that same kind of concept. You give the players that care about progression a bunch of little goals (levels, ranks, minor upgraded gear, vanity items) that encourage them to move forward to a big goal, but you give the players who just want to have fun the necessities they need to achieve whatever goals they see fun and then leave them alone.
Levels havn't been brag rights in a MMO since Lineage. It is just too easy to level up in MMOs today. You might impress someone who just logged on the first time but it is gear and titles that is the real bragging right. Wait until the first player on your server gets her obsidian armor, you wont hear the end of it until you got one yourself.
Levels have 2 functions in modern MMOs: They give you a hint about how powerful you are against another player or a mob and they simulate that your character is getting more experienced the first few weeks you play.
guess it's like WoW,, but WoW started with 60, how fast can you level in GW2 is to be seen. I should get an extra level just for creating a hairy-chested nord, yes?
If you are playing GW2 to level from 1 to 60 or whatever as fast as you can - you're doing it wrong.
This is to be a game where you htt the level cap and say "wow, that was a hell of a lot of content and entertainment for 60 bucks."
Then, like a FPS game or some such, you can keep playing at no additional cost and do PvP or go back and do stuff or play cooperatively with your friends etc.
Then, at some point, they'll be new content and such available for purchase, like DLC for a FPS game.
Well, TSWs levelless system is far from perfect. It is pen and paper RPGs that perfected levelless mechanics many years ago.
In Shadowrun for example you get karma as you play. this karma can be used to increease skills or attributes and buy new spells if you are a magic user. You can´t up your hitpoints though since Shadowrun don´t use hitpoints but raising your attributes make you soak more damage anyways. There is no classes or max out there, but you decide if you can use magic or not when you start playing.
There are many other system though that doesthe same and work fine, including what CCP seems to be using for World of darkness online...