Originally posted by Lepidus I was pretty much commenting on how this debate comes up every time we breath the word Horizons. That said, you are correct, it would be interesting reading and in the end, it provides balanced coverage. I shall look into it. UPDATE: ...and there we go. It is arranged. Check back in the coming weeks for David Allen's turn.
Lepidus you just went up a lot in my book of respect.
Great present you gave me on my 51st Birthday.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by Aldaron Speaking of Horizons...Who was that original idea fellow. The one that created the whole schmill of the game. The one that they backstabbed, overthrew, then tore out about every page of his idea's and created this debauchery?
I do agree that Horizons is a love/hate relationship.. at least you can just pop some corn sit back and read all the posts from Fanboys and FanHaters of the game.
Good job Dana. I'm glad that you are willing to do the right thing and show the "other" side of the Horizons story.
BTW for all those reading these forums, please understand that there isnt much DA is going to say that we dont already know. Seriously. The depths of the AE soap opera are so immersive that most of the followers of the tradgedy over hte last year know more about every little detail than some of the key players . Hell I've read the court docs/transcripts so many times going over all of the stuff I concidered interesting that I doubt even DB is aware of some of the things that are in there.
So in short, dont expect Lepi to post a sharp critique of DB and crew. More specifically, and quite remarkably infact concidering DA has stated he's not intrested in developing anymore period, I expect we will get the details of how DA saw his role in building AE and what pitfalls and accomplishments he encountered along the way.
As a final note, we all know right now the HZ fan-patrol we be in bashing DA and calling his story BS etc, just like most of the people who have read and studied what happened with AE/Horizons point out the "inconsistancies" of DBs "interviews". Really this DA interview will resolve nothing but.. I really am glad that Lepi is at least going the extra mile to provide a second opinion of the hieghts and depths of the tradgedy that is Artifact Entertainment.
Accuse Lepi of being somewhat one sided, yes we've all seen numerous praises given to HZ, but all I really was ever concerned about is that he truely believed and published DBs ficticious numbers and PR twist as fact. I think Lepi himself might be surprised at some of the answers he gets.
Originally posted by SLyxsith Hell I've read the court docs/transcripts so many times going over all of the stuff I concidered interesting that I doubt even DB is aware of some of the things that are in there.
Actually, I spoke to David Allen for quite a while the other day. Basically, neither he nor I, see any point in restating the whole drama. We all know both side's opinions - there is no news there and nothing has happened to change that.
That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.
I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Originally posted by Lepidus That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.
WOW! Now that would be a very interesting artical to read! I can't wait to see that!
Originally posted by Lepidus Actually, I spoke to David Allen for quite a while the other day. Basically, neither he nor I, see any point in restating the whole drama. We all know both side's opinions - there is no news there and nothing has happened to change that. That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many. I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.
I think that will be a great read. I play Horizons also and even with the stigma attached to it, the game itself has a certain magic within it. Be it the ghost of David Allen or his blood sweat and tears that went into the game, the game is truly unique and special. I can't wait to read his thoughts surrounding it as I wasn't around for the soap opera. All I have to go by is disgruntled former players and their venom and avarice clouds their judgement of even the most innane occurance: visions of David Bowman as Satan and David Allen as a winged cherub come to mind.
Originally posted by Lepidus That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many. I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.
I think this is a wonderful idea, and I look forward to reading the article.
david allen says the company was stolen from him, what he forgets to say is that all the investors said they'd close their coffins if he wont quit...That was from one of the original devs...
He was just THAT kind of difficult artist personality...he wasn't ready for compromises and demanded too much from the team and was extremely moody and would scrap a half ready code just out of a whim...there was long writing from ex employee of his...i'll see if i can find a link...
Originally posted by kishe david allen says the company was stolen from him, what he forgets to say is that all the investors said they'd close their coffins if he wont quit...That was from one of the original devs... He was just THAT kind of difficult artist personality...he wasn't ready for compromises and demanded too much from the team and was extremely moody and would scrap a half ready code just out of a whim...there was long writing from ex employee of his...i'll see if i can find a link...
So how can you believe a developer that was in on getting him out? To say DA lied and this dev told the truth just can't be believed. Yet DA has and did share documents that would back up his claims. So what is next are you going to say he forged them?
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
When it comes to David Allen, let's not forget that he's the lead designer who didn't sit in on design meetings while he was CEO, he left that to his 'business partner', you know, the one who didn't design the game.
Let's also not forget that David Allen freely admits to being paid $10k a month. $10k a month ?!?! He discusses salaries of $8k to $10k a month as if it's common! $4k, $5k, maybe even $6k a month would be acceptable especially for a start-up that haven't got a product out the door yet, but $10k a month ?!?!
Face it Dozer, David Allen should have been in those design meetings. He shouldn't have been on such an inflated salary. He obviously learnt some lessons from his time at AE (I do feel some sympathy since he was obviously taken for a ride by James Jones), those lessons have left a bitter taste in his mouth which is still apparent to this very day.
TBH I can't feel much sympathy for David Allen, anyone who openly calls all his ex work colleagues scum and uses all sorts of unsavoury descriptions of those people who in some cases thought they were his friends, well I just can't respect the guy. Especially a guy who was driving extremely flashy cars and being paid $10k a month in a startup company without a product on the shelves.
There, I've said my piece about David Allen. Unless he apologises (privately or publicly, I don't care) to those people who believed a friendship existed but have since been on the receiving end of insults from him, I just can't accept his credibility. I don't care what he says about James Jones, Mr Jones was obviously in it for the money and karma will take its course in that respect.
Originally posted by DoomReaper When it comes to David Allen, let's not forget that he's the lead designer who didn't sit in on design meetings while he was CEO, he left that to his 'business partner', you know, the one who didn't design the game. Let's also not forget that David Allen freely admits to being paid $10k a month. $10k a month ?!?! He discusses salaries of $8k to $10k a month as if it's common! $4k, $5k, maybe even $6k a month would be acceptable especially for a start-up that haven't got a product out the door yet, but $10k a month ?!?! Face it Dozer, David Allen should have been in those design meetings. He shouldn't have been on such an inflated salary. He obviously learnt some lessons from his time at AE (I do feel some sympathy since he was obviously taken for a ride by James Jones), those lessons have left a bitter taste in his mouth which is still apparent to this very day. TBH I can't feel much sympathy for David Allen, anyone who openly calls all his ex work colleagues scum and uses all sorts of unsavoury descriptions of those people who in some cases thought they were his friends, well I just can't respect the guy. Especially a guy who was driving extremely flashy cars and being paid $10k a month in a startup company without a product on the shelves. There, I've said my piece about David Allen. Unless he apologises (privately or publicly, I don't care) to those people who believed a friendship existed but have since been on the receiving end of insults from him, I just can't accept his credibility. I don't care what he says about James Jones, Mr Jones was obviously in it for the money and karma will take its course in that respect.
You have link to backup statements? Also you really think DB should be paid 10k for the HZ of today?
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by D0ZeR You have link to backup statements?
Yes, it's called the GameMethod article. Direct quotes attributed to David Allen within that article. I'm sure you've heard of the article ...
Other than the 10k comment I do not see your points. Plz link me to these links. I know the article would say how the people he worked with treated him and hide things from him. The way you put it you are turning a lot around to make it look like DA was in the wrong.
Now about the 10k comment, you really think DB should be paid 10k for the game you have now? More so when the coders are working under scale.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by D0ZeR Other than the 10k comment I do not see your points. Plz link me to these links. I know the article would say how the people he worked with treated him and hide things from him. The way you put it you are turning a lot around to make it look like DA was in the wrong. Now about the 10k comment, you really think DB should be paid 10k for the game you have now? More so when the coders are working under scale.
You claim to be familiar with posts on the Pharoah forums, go have another read and you'll find out all about David Allen's cars, how they were his pride and joy and his last fond memories of AE and how he had to sell them eventually.
Also on Pharoah forums are all the unsavoury things that David Allen has said about people who thought he was a friend until he left AE and started making unnecessary comments about them all. You can't possibly have overlooked the various snide comments there that he's directed at AE employees as a whole, without any exceptions stated in those such posts.
The GameMethod article covers not only his extortionate salary in a start-up without a product on the shelves, but also the fact that he was not party to the development / design meetings. What sort of CEO who is trying to make their baby, their creation, their design a reality, fails to take part in meetings of that nature ? He makes it sound as if he was being blocked from such meetings, but in all seriousness as the original designer of the game and as the CEO why on earth would he have never attended such meetings until it was too late ? That's a rhetorical question by the way. We can surmise all we like. All we know is that he didn't attend development / design meetings, and has suggested that he was blocked from attending for the whole time he worked at AE.
I've gone far enough off the beaten track. You brought me there though Dozer. I hope if a moderator does step in and cleans up this topic that they do the decent thing and remove any posts (including my own) that are not related to the original interview which this topic is intended to be a comment are for.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Other than the 10k comment I do not see your points. Plz link me to these links. I know the article would say how the people he worked with treated him and hide things from him. The way you put it you are turning a lot around to make it look like DA was in the wrong. Now about the 10k comment, you really think DB should be paid 10k for the game you have now? More so when the coders are working under scale.
You claim to be familiar with posts on the Pharoah forums, go have another read and you'll find out all about David Allen's cars, how they were his pride and joy and his last fond memories of AE and how he had to sell them eventually.
Also on Pharoah forums are all the unsavoury things that David Allen has said about people who thought he was a friend until he left AE and started making unnecessary comments about them all. You can't possibly have overlooked the various snide comments there that he's directed at AE employees as a whole, without any exceptions stated in those such posts.
The GameMethod article covers not only his extortionate salary in a start-up without a product on the shelves, but also the fact that he was not party to the development / design meetings. What sort of CEO who is trying to make their baby, their creation, their design a reality, fails to take part in meetings of that nature ? He makes it sound as if he was being blocked from such meetings, but in all seriousness as the original designer of the game and as the CEO why on earth would he have never attended such meetings until it was too late ? That's a rhetorical question by the way. We can surmise all we like. All we know is that he didn't attend development / design meetings, and has suggested that he was blocked from attending for the whole time he worked at AE.
I've gone far enough off the beaten track. You brought me there though Dozer. I hope if a moderator does step in and cleans up this topic that they do the decent thing and remove any posts (including my own) that are not related to the original interview which this topic is intended to be a comment are for.
Once again you make statements but can't back them up with one link. I also find it strange you ignore how DB is making 10k when others under him is making under scale. I find it funny how you now want posts deleted including yours after you find you can't backup one of your statements. Also I like how you state it is all in that article and now say it is on forums. Can you please stick to the original points you made.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by D0ZeR Once again you make statements but can't back them up with one link. I also find it strange you ignore how DB is making 10k when others under him is making under scale. I find it funny how you now want posts deleted including yours after you find you can't backup one of your statements. Also I like how you state it is all in that article and now say it is on forums. Can you please stick to the original points you made.
Thankyou for muddying the waters, since you baited, I'll bite. First of all I'm not asking moderators to delete posts, however I'm saying that if they're going to delete posts, then it would be appreciated if they removed all off-topic posts from this topic.
Next up, I've given you the links. You know where the Pharoah forums are (you've posted there) and you know where the GameMethod article resides, because you've used it as a reference often enough. I don't need to provide links to sites you are already more than familiar with. Therefore you know where to look to find the evidence to back up my statements.
I have no knowledge of Bowman's salary, except for some rumour that during the bankruptcy he opted not to be paid. I don't know if that's true or not, so up until now I've not commented on his salary.
I'm not changing my tune, you asked for links, I referred to the GameMethord article. You asked for more info, so I was more explicit in my directions, stating exactly where each of the points I had raised could be found, some points were from the GameMethod article, some were from David Allen's forums. You go ahead and read, take it all in.
Next time you try to turn the tables like that on me, you might want to remember that you have a reputation for saying that there's evidence to back up your claims, but to this day I have yet to see you refer to anything other than some legal documents from the time of the bankruptcy filing that failed to demonstrate your points for you. I remember all too well how you ended up digging a deeper hole for yourself on the VN boards with that. After that your posts all said they were backed up with documentation but refused to refer to which documents you meant. I daresay you didn't want to be tripped up again. Don't worry, the majority of folks haven't forgotten that this is how you play your game.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Once again you make statements but can't back them up with one link. I also find it strange you ignore how DB is making 10k when others under him is making under scale. I find it funny how you now want posts deleted including yours after you find you can't backup one of your statements. Also I like how you state it is all in that article and now say it is on forums. Can you please stick to the original points you made.
Thankyou for muddying the waters, since you baited, I'll bite. First of all I'm not asking moderators to delete posts, however I'm saying that if they're going to delete posts, then it would be appreciated if they removed all off-topic posts from this topic.
Next up, I've given you the links. You know where the Pharoah forums are (you've posted there) and you know where the GameMethod article resides, because you've used it as a reference often enough. I don't need to provide links to sites you are already more than familiar with. Therefore you know where to look to find the evidence to back up my statements.
I have no knowledge of Bowman's salary, except for some rumour that during the bankruptcy he opted not to be paid. I don't know if that's true or not, so up until now I've not commented on his salary.
I'm not changing my tune, you asked for links, I referred to the GameMethord article. You asked for more info, so I was more explicit in my directions, stating exactly where each of the points I had raised could be found, some points were from the GameMethod article, some were from David Allen's forums. You go ahead and read, take it all in.
Next time you try to turn the tables like that on me, you might want to remember that you have a reputation for saying that there's evidence to back up your claims, but to this day I have yet to see you refer to anything other than some legal documents from the time of the bankruptcy filing that failed to demonstrate your points for you. I remember all too well how you ended up digging a deeper hole for yourself on the VN boards with that. After that your posts all said they were backed up with documentation but refused to refer to which documents you meant. I daresay you didn't want to be tripped up again. Don't worry, the majority of folks haven't forgotten that this is how you play your game.
I'm done biting the bait. Have a nice day Dozer.
If you read the documents from the chapter 11 it clearly states he was being paid 10k a month. I see you turn things around which is exactly what you have done right along. Seems like people that play HZ can make whatever statements they want without either putting quotes in there post or links to the posts they refer too. Not like I started us down this road you were the one that made the comments, least you could do is show the statements.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
This SOB ruined a potentially amazing game, mainly with his great idea of removing ALL pvp.. whata fool, anyone remeber wat that game used to promise? Guild wars.. city construction even, and racial pvp
Comments
I think I should do a future dev profile with David Allen just to taunt you guys
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I really don't think he would give you a interview. But if you think he would then go for it. I think it would be more taunting Bowman than any of us.
Be great reading though.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
I was pretty much commenting on how this debate comes up every time we breath the word Horizons.
That said, you are correct, it would be interesting reading and in the end, it provides balanced coverage. I shall look into it.
UPDATE: ...and there we go. It is arranged. Check back in the coming weeks for David Allen's turn.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
David Allen is the Gentleman that you are looking for. You can find more information and links to his other projects here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Allen_(game_designer)
I do agree that Horizons is a love/hate relationship.. at least you can just pop some corn sit back and read all the posts from Fanboys and FanHaters of the game.
Good job Dana. I'm glad that you are willing to do the right thing and show the "other" side of the Horizons story.
BTW for all those reading these forums, please understand that there isnt much DA is going to say that we dont already know. Seriously. The depths of the AE soap opera are so immersive that most of the followers of the tradgedy over hte last year know more about every little detail than some of the key players
. Hell I've read the court docs/transcripts so many times going over all of the stuff I concidered interesting that I doubt even DB is aware of some of the things that are in there.
So in short, dont expect Lepi to post a sharp critique of DB and crew. More specifically, and quite remarkably infact concidering DA has stated he's not intrested in developing anymore period, I expect we will get the details of how DA saw his role in building AE and what pitfalls and accomplishments he encountered along the way.
As a final note, we all know right now the HZ fan-patrol we be in bashing DA and calling his story BS etc, just like most of the people who have read and studied what happened with AE/Horizons point out the "inconsistancies" of DBs "interviews". Really this DA interview will resolve nothing but.. I really am glad that Lepi is at least going the extra mile to provide a second opinion of the hieghts and depths of the tradgedy that is Artifact Entertainment.
Accuse Lepi of being somewhat one sided, yes we've all seen numerous praises given to HZ, but all I really was ever concerned about is that he truely believed and published DBs ficticious numbers and PR twist as fact. I think Lepi himself might be surprised at some of the answers he gets.
Cheers all
any idea of where one might find those documents?
Actually, I spoke to David Allen for quite a while the other day. Basically, neither he nor I, see any point in restating the whole drama. We all know both side's opinions - there is no news there and nothing has happened to change that.
That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.
I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I think that will be a great read. I play Horizons also and even with the stigma attached to it, the game itself has a certain magic within it. Be it the ghost of David Allen or his blood sweat and tears that went into the game, the game is truly unique and special. I can't wait to read his thoughts surrounding it as I wasn't around for the soap opera. All I have to go by is disgruntled former players and their venom and avarice clouds their judgement of even the most innane occurance: visions of David Bowman as Satan and David Allen as a winged cherub come to mind.
EDIT:spelling
I think this is a wonderful idea, and I look forward to reading the article.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
david allen says the company was stolen from him, what he forgets to say is that all the investors said they'd close their coffins if he wont quit...That was from one of the original devs...
He was just THAT kind of difficult artist personality...he wasn't ready for compromises and demanded too much from the team and was extremely moody and would scrap a half ready code just out of a whim...there was long writing from ex employee of his...i'll see if i can find a link...
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
When it comes to David Allen, let's not forget that he's the lead designer who didn't sit in on design meetings while he was CEO, he left that to his 'business partner', you know, the one who didn't design the game.
Let's also not forget that David Allen freely admits to being paid $10k a month. $10k a month ?!?! He discusses salaries of $8k to $10k a month as if it's common! $4k, $5k, maybe even $6k a month would be acceptable especially for a start-up that haven't got a product out the door yet, but $10k a month ?!?!
Face it Dozer, David Allen should have been in those design meetings. He shouldn't have been on such an inflated salary. He obviously learnt some lessons from his time at AE (I do feel some sympathy since he was obviously taken for a ride by James Jones), those lessons have left a bitter taste in his mouth which is still apparent to this very day.
TBH I can't feel much sympathy for David Allen, anyone who openly calls all his ex work colleagues scum and uses all sorts of unsavoury descriptions of those people who in some cases thought they were his friends, well I just can't respect the guy. Especially a guy who was driving extremely flashy cars and being paid $10k a month in a startup company without a product on the shelves.
There, I've said my piece about David Allen. Unless he apologises (privately or publicly, I don't care) to those people who believed a friendship existed but have since been on the receiving end of insults from him, I just can't accept his credibility. I don't care what he says about James Jones, Mr Jones was obviously in it for the money and karma will take its course in that respect.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Yes, it's called the GameMethod article. Direct quotes attributed to David Allen within that article. I'm sure you've heard of the article ...
Yes, it's called the GameMethod article. Direct quotes attributed to David Allen within that article. I'm sure you've heard of the article ...
Other than the 10k comment I do not see your points. Plz link me to these links. I know the article would say how the people he worked with treated him and hide things from him. The way you put it you are turning a lot around to make it look like DA was in the wrong.
Now about the 10k comment, you really think DB should be paid 10k for the game you have now? More so when the coders are working under scale.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
You claim to be familiar with posts on the Pharoah forums, go have another read and you'll find out all about David Allen's cars, how they were his pride and joy and his last fond memories of AE and how he had to sell them eventually.
Also on Pharoah forums are all the unsavoury things that David Allen has said about people who thought he was a friend until he left AE and started making unnecessary comments about them all. You can't possibly have overlooked the various snide comments there that he's directed at AE employees as a whole, without any exceptions stated in those such posts.
The GameMethod article covers not only his extortionate salary in a start-up without a product on the shelves, but also the fact that he was not party to the development / design meetings. What sort of CEO who is trying to make their baby, their creation, their design a reality, fails to take part in meetings of that nature ? He makes it sound as if he was being blocked from such meetings, but in all seriousness as the original designer of the game and as the CEO why on earth would he have never attended such meetings until it was too late ? That's a rhetorical question by the way. We can surmise all we like. All we know is that he didn't attend development / design meetings, and has suggested that he was blocked from attending for the whole time he worked at AE.
I've gone far enough off the beaten track. You brought me there though Dozer. I hope if a moderator does step in and cleans up this topic that they do the decent thing and remove any posts (including my own) that are not related to the original interview which this topic is intended to be a comment are for.
You claim to be familiar with posts on the Pharoah forums, go have another read and you'll find out all about David Allen's cars, how they were his pride and joy and his last fond memories of AE and how he had to sell them eventually.
Also on Pharoah forums are all the unsavoury things that David Allen has said about people who thought he was a friend until he left AE and started making unnecessary comments about them all. You can't possibly have overlooked the various snide comments there that he's directed at AE employees as a whole, without any exceptions stated in those such posts.
The GameMethod article covers not only his extortionate salary in a start-up without a product on the shelves, but also the fact that he was not party to the development / design meetings. What sort of CEO who is trying to make their baby, their creation, their design a reality, fails to take part in meetings of that nature ? He makes it sound as if he was being blocked from such meetings, but in all seriousness as the original designer of the game and as the CEO why on earth would he have never attended such meetings until it was too late ? That's a rhetorical question by the way. We can surmise all we like. All we know is that he didn't attend development / design meetings, and has suggested that he was blocked from attending for the whole time he worked at AE.
I've gone far enough off the beaten track. You brought me there though Dozer. I hope if a moderator does step in and cleans up this topic that they do the decent thing and remove any posts (including my own) that are not related to the original interview which this topic is intended to be a comment are for.
Once again you make statements but can't back them up with one link. I also find it strange you ignore how DB is making 10k when others under him is making under scale. I find it funny how you now want posts deleted including yours after you find you can't backup one of your statements. Also I like how you state it is all in that article and now say it is on forums. Can you please stick to the original points you made.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Thankyou for muddying the waters, since you baited, I'll bite. First of all I'm not asking moderators to delete posts, however I'm saying that if they're going to delete posts, then it would be appreciated if they removed all off-topic posts from this topic.
Next up, I've given you the links. You know where the Pharoah forums are (you've posted there) and you know where the GameMethod article resides, because you've used it as a reference often enough. I don't need to provide links to sites you are already more than familiar with. Therefore you know where to look to find the evidence to back up my statements.
I have no knowledge of Bowman's salary, except for some rumour that during the bankruptcy he opted not to be paid. I don't know if that's true or not, so up until now I've not commented on his salary.
I'm not changing my tune, you asked for links, I referred to the GameMethord article. You asked for more info, so I was more explicit in my directions, stating exactly where each of the points I had raised could be found, some points were from the GameMethod article, some were from David Allen's forums. You go ahead and read, take it all in.
Next time you try to turn the tables like that on me, you might want to remember that you have a reputation for saying that there's evidence to back up your claims, but to this day I have yet to see you refer to anything other than some legal documents from the time of the bankruptcy filing that failed to demonstrate your points for you. I remember all too well how you ended up digging a deeper hole for yourself on the VN boards with that. After that your posts all said they were backed up with documentation but refused to refer to which documents you meant. I daresay you didn't want to be tripped up again. Don't worry, the majority of folks haven't forgotten that this is how you play your game.
I'm done biting the bait. Have a nice day Dozer.
Thankyou for muddying the waters, since you baited, I'll bite. First of all I'm not asking moderators to delete posts, however I'm saying that if they're going to delete posts, then it would be appreciated if they removed all off-topic posts from this topic.
Next up, I've given you the links. You know where the Pharoah forums are (you've posted there) and you know where the GameMethod article resides, because you've used it as a reference often enough. I don't need to provide links to sites you are already more than familiar with. Therefore you know where to look to find the evidence to back up my statements.
I have no knowledge of Bowman's salary, except for some rumour that during the bankruptcy he opted not to be paid. I don't know if that's true or not, so up until now I've not commented on his salary.
I'm not changing my tune, you asked for links, I referred to the GameMethord article. You asked for more info, so I was more explicit in my directions, stating exactly where each of the points I had raised could be found, some points were from the GameMethod article, some were from David Allen's forums. You go ahead and read, take it all in.
Next time you try to turn the tables like that on me, you might want to remember that you have a reputation for saying that there's evidence to back up your claims, but to this day I have yet to see you refer to anything other than some legal documents from the time of the bankruptcy filing that failed to demonstrate your points for you. I remember all too well how you ended up digging a deeper hole for yourself on the VN boards with that. After that your posts all said they were backed up with documentation but refused to refer to which documents you meant. I daresay you didn't want to be tripped up again. Don't worry, the majority of folks haven't forgotten that this is how you play your game.
I'm done biting the bait. Have a nice day Dozer.
If you read the documents from the chapter 11 it clearly states he was being paid 10k a month. I see you turn things around which is exactly what you have done right along. Seems like people that play HZ can make whatever statements they want without either putting quotes in there post or links to the posts they refer too. Not like I started us down this road you were the one that made the comments, least you could do is show the statements.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee