Ok, to start of I'll talk some about your ideas that need to be tweaked. You said Faux NPC crafting xp gains are the same as if you were playing online. I think they should be significaltly lower than doing it yourself especially if their effectiveness will be lower than a player would be doing the minigame. IMO All xp gains should be really low in any offline progression. Players should want to play the game and not let it play itself. More MMO, less ProgressQuest.
Two major problems I foresee is: Population with difference in timezone and AI limitations.
You will absolutely have to have a single shard server that connects to hundreds... thousands of players all of the world. Why? So everyone isn't offline at the same time with all the little Faux NPCs running around doing their thing while nobody there to see it or even need their services. So lets say you have a single server. There still may be a imbalance in population from one timezone to another. I don't know, you'd just have to hope for the best.
You said that the Faux NPCs would benefit a guild by granting access to them but I see a conflict. You joined the guild because you are in the same timezone as they are so you can play together but the use of a Faux is used. Do you intend guilds to function the best because they have players from all different timezones?(and little socializing between the players) I can see it maybe working only if players don't play at regular times but casuals will. Over all, it doesn't improve much as far as socializing goes. Socializing comes from communicating and interacting with players not so much thier Faux NPC pet.. thingy.
The AI is going to freak out over your concept. Having them path to and from areas all over the world, doing ad hoc tasks on the way... I don't know if you mean for them to literally walk all over the place to attack and defend locations or to "go do those things" But I just can't see an AI in an MMO perform those things intellegently for hundreds of other players too without them glitching up and bugging out. Uppon log in this is what you will think... *Where the hell am I??? What the hell happened to my character???*
Is it really socializing when you are playing and interacting with an automated Faux NPC? I wouldn't say it is but the perks of having them go do things that you don't want or helping someone else when offline is kinda nice. I'd rather it be person.
Faux NPCs cannot just go do things as I explained. They can allow portions of your shop to function while offline. They can FOLLOW ACTUAL PLAYERS when those players are doing tasks. They can't just run all over the map gathering things and they can't kill seek out and kill creatures. They can respond to assaults on their settlement. They can follow players and attack creatures who attack those players. They can hold things on gathering missions. They cannot as you seem to say run all over the world performing ad hoc tasks along the way. The game is an rpg/rts hybrid. So another player would be setting their actions to a slight degree. Follow/guard/buy/sell w/e.
The social bonus is that you have to socialize. Players who refuse to socialize won't have friends who will put them on offline lists. Also, there are rules. For instance, if the guild is doing a raid on a monster lair its probably planned out days in advance. So you will be like: "Okay I set him up to go on the raid. It won't be as good as if I was online but it should help. I will be on sometime next week after vacation."
Also there is a mobile device chat app so you will know what is going on. And again you will know who can do what with your guy. You won't just log in and have no idea where you are.
Its not replacing player gameplay its supplementing it. Maybe you just happen to have a date the day of the raid or you are out of town or something.
And selling items in the shop is a convenience feature.
You seem to have this idea that the system has features I never said it has.
As for exp EvE has a real time skill system which goes the same speed online or off. This is way less hands off than that.
I don't understand at all how you thought this was like progress quest.
And yes there is only one world that all the players in the game use.
Ok, that's a relief. It sounded like it was bigger than it really was.
So in short It is, if you are Offline you have the choice to become either..
A controlable pet by others
Afk player shop/crafter
Or an NPC that stands at your fort (1 vs many I suppose)
It's a side feature that can get you to socialize a little to set up the arragent of use of your Faux NPC, got it.
Progress Quest.. you know if you were to constantly have your Faux NPC to kills stuff with another players, craft stuff, whatever to constantly gain xp and level up in the background while you never actually play the game.
Yeah, you cannot get really good leveling with the Faux NPC system. Playing the game will always be superior.
The feature is just to ameliorate problems like no crafters being on or your friends all being busy irl or defending a settlement if it gets attacked with few people online. Stall the enemy for people to get there.
In that case, I really like it. Mostly for the use of an offline crafter and shopkeeper. I'm still unsure how effective the use of it as an attacker/defender would be, though. And for mobs that stay dead... I don't like the idea but would settle for something else. Perhaps spawning fields that move around? That and dynamic content that reacts with player interaction. As in, certain events can only occur if players or groups of players are nearby. Or if nobody is around the epic monster leaves to fight another day. The triggers wouldn't always simply being in the area, it could be from harvesting, number of travelers, killing something, etc.
Ok, to start of I'll talk some about your ideas that need to be tweaked. You said Faux NPC crafting xp gains are the same as if you were playing online. I think they should be significaltly lower than doing it yourself especially if their effectiveness will be lower than a player would be doing the minigame. IMO All xp gains should be really low in any offline progression. Players should want to play the game and not let it play itself. More MMO, less ProgressQuest.
Two major problems I foresee is: Population with difference in timezone and AI limitations.
You will absolutely have to have a single shard server that connects to hundreds... thousands of players all of the world. Why? So everyone isn't offline at the same time with all the little Faux NPCs running around doing their thing while nobody there to see it or even need their services. So lets say you have a single server. There still may be a imbalance in population from one timezone to another. I don't know, you'd just have to hope for the best.
You said that the Faux NPCs would benefit a guild by granting access to them but I see a conflict. You joined the guild because you are in the same timezone as they are so you can play together but the use of a Faux is used. Do you intend guilds to function the best because they have players from all different timezones?(and little socializing between the players) I can see it maybe working only if players don't play at regular times but casuals will. Over all, it doesn't improve much as far as socializing goes. Socializing comes from communicating and interacting with players not so much thier Faux NPC pet.. thingy.
The AI is going to freak out over your concept. Having them path to and from areas all over the world, doing ad hoc tasks on the way... I don't know if you mean for them to literally walk all over the place to attack and defend locations or to "go do those things" But I just can't see an AI in an MMO perform those things intellegently for hundreds of other players too without them glitching up and bugging out. Uppon log in this is what you will think... *Where the hell am I??? What the hell happened to my character???*
Is it really socializing when you are playing and interacting with an automated Faux NPC? I wouldn't say it is but the perks of having them go do things that you don't want or helping someone else when offline is kinda nice. I'd rather it be person.
Faux NPCs cannot just go do things as I explained. They can allow portions of your shop to function while offline. They can FOLLOW ACTUAL PLAYERS when those players are doing tasks. They can't just run all over the map gathering things and they can't kill seek out and kill creatures. They can respond to assaults on their settlement. They can follow players and attack creatures who attack those players. They can hold things on gathering missions. They cannot as you seem to say run all over the world performing ad hoc tasks along the way. The game is an rpg/rts hybrid. So another player would be setting their actions to a slight degree. Follow/guard/buy/sell w/e.
The social bonus is that you have to socialize. Players who refuse to socialize won't have friends who will put them on offline lists. Also, there are rules. For instance, if the guild is doing a raid on a monster lair its probably planned out days in advance. So you will be like: "Okay I set him up to go on the raid. It won't be as good as if I was online but it should help. I will be on sometime next week after vacation."
Also there is a mobile device chat app so you will know what is going on. And again you will know who can do what with your guy. You won't just log in and have no idea where you are.
Its not replacing player gameplay its supplementing it. Maybe you just happen to have a date the day of the raid or you are out of town or something.
And selling items in the shop is a convenience feature.
You seem to have this idea that the system has features I never said it has.
As for exp EvE has a real time skill system which goes the same speed online or off. This is way less hands off than that.
I don't understand at all how you thought this was like progress quest.
And yes there is only one world that all the players in the game use.
Ok, that's a relief. It sounded like it was bigger than it really was.
So in short It is, if you are Offline you have the choice to become either..
A controlable pet by others
Afk player shop/crafter
Or an NPC that stands at your fort (1 vs many I suppose)
It's a side feature that can get you to socialize a little to set up the arragent of use of your Faux NPC, got it.
Progress Quest.. you know if you were to constantly have your Faux NPC to kills stuff with another players, craft stuff, whatever to constantly gain xp and level up in the background while you never actually play the game.
Yeah, you cannot get really good leveling with the Faux NPC system. Playing the game will always be superior.
The feature is just to ameliorate problems like no crafters being on or your friends all being busy irl or defending a settlement if it gets attacked with few people online. Stall the enemy for people to get there.
In that case, I really like it. Mostly for the use of an offline crafter and shopkeeper. I'm still unsure how effective the use of it as an attacker/defender would be, though. And for mobs that stay dead... I don't like the idea but would settle for something else. Perhaps spawning fields that move around? That and dynamic content that reacts with player interaction. As in, certain events can only occur if players or groups of players are nearby. Or if nobody is around the epic monster leaves to fight another day. The triggers wouldn't always simply being in the area, it could be from harvesting, number of travelers, killing something, etc.
I'm really sorry I included that monster thing now. It seems to have upset gt and people keep talking about it.
I described this in the raid thread but I guess I should explain here.
Monsters enter the world from rifts. The number and size of the rifts scales with the number of players. Every spawn cycle each rift spawns new creatures based on its size. Monsters travel out from the rift until they pick a lair area. Some monsters are social and some are loners.
Here I'll just link the thread and you can read the first post if you have the time:
That thread and a few others talk about raids. There is stuff in more detail on my admittedly not kept up well website. I swear I'm gonna get it finished with all the info at some point.
i was just going to ask if you had a blog of this lol.
So, you are already far in designing, I'll tried to have a quick look at your PvP section but it gave a 404 page not found, sorry.
I'll read it all if I get the time, to see how your designing plans are fitted together. If my questions are related to answers in your blog forgive me for the moment.
If you don't mind me asking here,
Will the "monsters" also be player controlled, ie. PvP ?
While planning all this, what type of player do you have in mind ? I don't mean the sandbox fan, off course, that is obvious, you seem to be focussing on the killer types and the social types, am I correct ?
Is there any point in which you can "win" the game, so to speak ?
[Edit]
I have seen the site, lots of 404 pages, though. I just have one big non-game topic: please reconsider the colors you use on the screens it is heavy on the eyes and makes reading very hard ! ( why not making it easy on you and use one of the CMS systems: Joomla, Drupal ? )
At this point, I haven't a clue on what you are trying to accomplish or what game it is you try to describe or whatever. I am not even sure it is a sandbox game after all, it all is too much detached and I seem to be unable to get a whole picture. not to wory, perhaps it is only because of the things I missed because of the 404's.
I do understand some of the mechanics you describe. I dare say you have some personal and neat ideas, but at the moment I only can summon up a mountain of questions of the type "howto" or "Why", which would drive you nuts I suppose.
Rated M for Mature - May contain content inappropriate for children
i was just going to ask if you had a blog of this lol.
So, you are already far in designing, I'll tried to have a quick look at your PvP section but it gave a 404 page not found, sorry.
I'll read it all if I get the time, to see how your designing plans are fitted together. If my questions are related to answers in your blog forgive me for the moment.
If you don't mind me asking here,
Will the "monsters" also be player controlled, ie. PvP ?
While planning all this, what type of player do you have in mind ? I don't mean the sandbox fan, off course, that is obvious, you seem to be focussing on the killer types and the social types, am I correct ?
Is there any point in which you can "win" the game, so to speak ?
[Edit]
I have seen the site, lots of 404 pages, though. I just have one big non-game topic: please reconsider the colors you use on the screens it is heavy on the eyes and makes reading very hard ! ( why not making it easy on you and use one of the CMS systems: Joomla, Drupal ? )
At this point, I haven't a clue on what you are trying to accomplish or what game it is you try to describe or whatever. I am not even sure it is a sandbox game after all, it all is too much detached and I seem to be unable to get a whole picture. not to wory, perhaps it is only because of the things I missed because of the 404's.
I do understand some of the mechanics you describe. I dare say you have some personal and neat ideas, but at the moment I only can summon up a mountain of questions of the type "howto" or "Why", which would drive you nuts I suppose.
I believe I said that I have not kept the site up to date with my ideas. Stupid school. So yeah a lot of pages don't exist.
I like certain color patterns, but I understand that other people despise them. I will probably change to a more broadly appealing format as I update the site. It wasn't originally intended for public use.
I am actually probably going to remove PvP because it interferes with the value of PvE which for this particular game I am more focused on.
Creatures are AI. The only playable race is humans.
As for the player archetypes I have functions for everyone. The game had extensive opportunities for explorers and in fact exploring provides you with what is one of the most powerful items in the game, the components to spells. I am creating the magic system as it was in fantasy novels. Rare and incredibly powerful.
I wanted to make a game where the social and explorer types had way more to do than in other games. For achievers I may have leaderboards or I may not. There are no levels and someones power doesn't have to be visible. You could wear crappy looking gear that is quite powerful.
The game is not winnable. The scope of the world is effectively infinite. If players choose to open gates to other worlds those will be just as large as the initial world.
I will go ahead and make a list of links on the site to all my threads on various forums which go into quite a bit of detail on many game functions. Should be up on saturday.
And scroll down there is a list of links now to tall my threads here and on Game Dev. 23 in all.
That would be helpful in understanding all the stuff. Some threads may contain ideas I am not using currently. I will try and update the website format over the weekend.
Have you read Neal Stephenson's REAMDE? He postulates an MMO that works the way you describe, with avatars that never log off.
The idea isn't new, I want to say that it was tried in text muds as well.
Don't underestimate how dumb an NPC (or faux NPC) will be. Survivability rates will be low, especially with a sandboxy world.
One of the biggest challenges would likely be exactly that bot issue; it could be difficult for players to find other live players.
Given the focus of PvE I would probably just have a display of which characters were actual players. PvP would add a whole new level of complexity though especially FFA.
The player characters will most likely be fighting PvE enemies who are just as dumb if not dumber than them.
Faux NPCs will not be going out doing things on their own, too complicated.
I have not read that particular Steph book. So many books to read, so little time.
I will have a testable program this year, but it will be mostly image maps and php code, just cause php is the easiest language for me and has quick to make displays cause HTML.
Comments
In that case, I really like it. Mostly for the use of an offline crafter and shopkeeper. I'm still unsure how effective the use of it as an attacker/defender would be, though. And for mobs that stay dead... I don't like the idea but would settle for something else. Perhaps spawning fields that move around? That and dynamic content that reacts with player interaction. As in, certain events can only occur if players or groups of players are nearby. Or if nobody is around the epic monster leaves to fight another day. The triggers wouldn't always simply being in the area, it could be from harvesting, number of travelers, killing something, etc.
I'm really sorry I included that monster thing now. It seems to have upset gt and people keep talking about it.
I described this in the raid thread but I guess I should explain here.
Monsters enter the world from rifts. The number and size of the rifts scales with the number of players. Every spawn cycle each rift spawns new creatures based on its size. Monsters travel out from the rift until they pick a lair area. Some monsters are social and some are loners.
Here I'll just link the thread and you can read the first post if you have the time:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336847/page/1
That thread and a few others talk about raids. There is stuff in more detail on my admittedly not kept up well website. I swear I'm gonna get it finished with all the info at some point.
www.lordofthedawn.com
So, you are already far in designing, I'll tried to have a quick look at your PvP section but it gave a 404 page not found, sorry.
I'll read it all if I get the time, to see how your designing plans are fitted together. If my questions are related to answers in your blog forgive me for the moment.
If you don't mind me asking here,
Will the "monsters" also be player controlled, ie. PvP ?
While planning all this, what type of player do you have in mind ? I don't mean the sandbox fan, off course, that is obvious, you seem to be focussing on the killer types and the social types, am I correct ?
Is there any point in which you can "win" the game, so to speak ?
[Edit]
I have seen the site, lots of 404 pages, though. I just have one big non-game topic: please reconsider the colors you use on the screens it is heavy on the eyes and makes reading very hard ! ( why not making it easy on you and use one of the CMS systems: Joomla, Drupal ? )
At this point, I haven't a clue on what you are trying to accomplish or what game it is you try to describe or whatever. I am not even sure it is a sandbox game after all, it all is too much detached and I seem to be unable to get a whole picture. not to wory, perhaps it is only because of the things I missed because of the 404's.
I do understand some of the mechanics you describe. I dare say you have some personal and neat ideas, but at the moment I only can summon up a mountain of questions of the type "howto" or "Why", which would drive you nuts I suppose.
Rated M for Mature - May contain content inappropriate for children
I believe I said that I have not kept the site up to date with my ideas. Stupid school. So yeah a lot of pages don't exist.
I like certain color patterns, but I understand that other people despise them. I will probably change to a more broadly appealing format as I update the site. It wasn't originally intended for public use.
I am actually probably going to remove PvP because it interferes with the value of PvE which for this particular game I am more focused on.
Creatures are AI. The only playable race is humans.
As for the player archetypes I have functions for everyone. The game had extensive opportunities for explorers and in fact exploring provides you with what is one of the most powerful items in the game, the components to spells. I am creating the magic system as it was in fantasy novels. Rare and incredibly powerful.
I wanted to make a game where the social and explorer types had way more to do than in other games. For achievers I may have leaderboards or I may not. There are no levels and someones power doesn't have to be visible. You could wear crappy looking gear that is quite powerful.
The game is not winnable. The scope of the world is effectively infinite. If players choose to open gates to other worlds those will be just as large as the initial world.
I will go ahead and make a list of links on the site to all my threads on various forums which go into quite a bit of detail on many game functions. Should be up on saturday.
Okay, if you go to:
http://www.lordofthedawn.com/GameInsRef.php
And scroll down there is a list of links now to tall my threads here and on Game Dev. 23 in all.
That would be helpful in understanding all the stuff. Some threads may contain ideas I am not using currently. I will try and update the website format over the weekend.
Have you read Neal Stephenson's REAMDE? He postulates an MMO that works the way you describe, with avatars that never log off.
The idea isn't new, I want to say that it was tried in text muds as well.
Don't underestimate how dumb an NPC (or faux NPC) will be. Survivability rates will be low, especially with a sandboxy world.
One of the biggest challenges would likely be exactly that bot issue; it could be difficult for players to find other live players.
Given the focus of PvE I would probably just have a display of which characters were actual players. PvP would add a whole new level of complexity though especially FFA.
The player characters will most likely be fighting PvE enemies who are just as dumb if not dumber than them.
Faux NPCs will not be going out doing things on their own, too complicated.
I have not read that particular Steph book. So many books to read, so little time.
I will have a testable program this year, but it will be mostly image maps and php code, just cause php is the easiest language for me and has quick to make displays cause HTML.
I will try and read that book, thanks for post.