The one thing missing from all styles of games that I have played is great questing locations.
The quests themselves are to linear goal oriented with a specific location marked out on a map.
If the games has more action styles quests that required jump, climbing, use of special spells/abilities/equipement to get to higher places, swimming to different areas, triggers to open doors, keys found in different dungeons or random drops, etc.
It is like developers think if they just make the story interesting they can forget about making the ADVENTURE of traveling the land and going the dungeons interesting. The land and the dungeons are the setting that help tell the story
Asheron's Call made some amazing quests and dungeons that I haven't seen equaled in any game since. There where dungeons where you had to jump up and up and up the entire time to get to the goal at the top while fighting flying mobs all the way. There was a dungeon that spiraled all the way down to the goal at the end. There were entire islands that where large quests where you had to do a lot of things in many dungeons to get to the end.
Quests these days are just go to this marked place, kill something, and watch a cutscene or read some type.
Items are also not as rare as they were back then. Back then when you finished a quest or got a rare random item from a mob or a chest you were extremely exited. These days there is just many items or to few rare ones that you can set a goal and go out and get.
That's kinda why I see brilliance in Eve. Levelling speed is no longer the driving motivator for what you choose to do. Since there's no way to "grind" your skills, you're stuck with doing... whatever you WANT to do.
But then, I've been lucky in that I don't feel that huge rush to get to max level like many do. The only time I felt that way is when that's ALL there is to do, as was the case in STO at launch.
SWTOR and LotRO both are pretty good at making me not feel urged to rush to max level, though LotRO does it better. There are places in LotRO that just feel like a HOME(not just your house) and you just wanna relax and craft for a while, or even fish, of all things.
TOR does lack that feeling, that homey place to put your feet up and relax. What's more, the main stories have you feeling the urgency to keep moving forward. But at least, I still like to take a detour and wander the maps to see what's going on.
Talking like this, a person might think that I dug the UO/EQ first gen world building approach.
Not really. People complain about how empty TOR is... EQ and UO felt FAR more empty to me. Just a bunch of monsters standing around waiting for you to kill them, in dull, random seeming scenery. I'm not wowed by 1 mile of this; having 1000 miles of it won't change a thing.
I'm hoping for something in a happy medium. A game that can find a way to talk players into getting off the XP trail to relax for a bit.
Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.
Not that i dont want player built cities and such, but WoW kind of single handedly disproves your little theory. Vanilla WoW was no different than SWToR in regards to social features.
This is just a typical reminiscing rant seeing things through rose colored glasses. "I had to walk to school in the snow, up hill both ways, barefoot. And we drank turpentine for lunch and we liked it! Oh how great we felt." There's a reason MMOs were niche games back then.
It's the same reasoning over and over again with any mmo that comes out since WoW launched.
It's the leveling is to fast, gear is forgettable, game over in a few weeks, I have 293 max level toons.
The difference between the late 90's mmo's and the current crop of crap is the people developing them. It's no longer passionate people who just finished playing a game of D&D with their friends and are now taking our fantasy dreams into a 3d virutal world.
It is money hungry corporations that have dollar signs in their eyes after smelling blood in the water of the mmo genre.
"Hey Bob, you know WoW makes a trillion billion dollars a month from their subs?"
"No shit? Well we have a billion dollars to throw around, lets buy up some gaming company and force them to make a clone of WoW so we can make money off these geeks too!"
That was a part of the conversation EA execs had before they bought and raped Mythic and spit out WAR.
The MMORPG genre is DEAD, these games coming out are not anything but stagnant copies of each other and the greedy pigs behind them are profitting off our stupidty, yes our because I fall for this shit cycle too.
We all knew what SWTOR was going to be like even if we didn't have beta access, some of us just choose not to believe what was known for our own sake of hoping it would change this dead pool.
I mean, come on, why do you think every mmo that is being launched over the last few years moves closer and closer to being a single player game with co-op mini games (pvp).
The best age for mmo's was its beginning and what I refer to as the golden age. EQ1, DAOC, AC, UO, Nexustk, games like those were when mmo's were truly mmo's to the core.
Dwarf Paladin in full bronze armor I looted off goblins getting trained constantly in Unrest by groups running for their lives from a named in the basement narrowly escaping death by the savior of a zone line.
That is what made me happy and kept my blood racing, I honestly can't even remember anything about any of the other characters in any other mmo I've played since, and I've played them all.
Why? Because they all blend together into a blur of mindless garbage with pretty pictures that just fly by since it is a never ending race of "go here, kill that, now go here and kill that, GO GO GO GO GO!!!!!" congrats you are now level 50, time played 3 days.
I spent a week in The Overthere at a ledge group with a friend and some swedish people we met camping mobs to get into my 30's level range, we talked, we laughed, we cried when we got wiped by a dragoons. It was adventure.
Christ, I could go on about how mmo's have betrayed themselves for hours but I'll stop here since nobody reads anything unless it's trolling someone.
But since we are talking quest leveling...and swtor is the latest....They didn't have 200 hours of content in the class, as they said they would....The wife and I watch every VO scene, didn't hit space bar, didn't power game, we work different shifts, so we mainly play on the weekend or like an hour at most during the weekday, and the content didn't last as long as it should of.
I call BS on this one, ok CLASS quests ONLY maybe, but not content total leveling up. If you do Taris, Tatooine, Balmorra, and Hoth you have more than 200 hours of content. If you do it all, on those 4 planets, class quests, misc quests, bonus quests, area quests, and all the heroics you will be there FOREVER. And that doesn't include datacrons, named champions, and world bosses, or actually exploring the entire map of each of these planets. If you say the whole game has less than 200 hours of content...you skipped some. And that is just 4 planets.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Skill-Based instead of Level-Based = Problem Solved.
I played UO near constantly for at least 4-5 years. There was no "end-game" because the game never ended. How can an MMO released 14 years ago get it so right while every MMO released now does it wrong?
AMEN !!!!
----- Pay-to-Win / F2P will be the death of real gaming, Boycott it !!
These are generalities, and of course some people like grind.
But can someone explain to me how a game can have slow leveling and not be grindy and boring?
Generally I can only survive the grind by grouping with other people for fun.
I have done crafting in DAOC (mind numbing boredom but you could make sellable items)
I have leveled a character in DAOC back in the day (Mind numbing grind), and that was just to level 50, no real realm rank or trials of atlantis done at all.
I have fled from Lineage 2 back in the day from the uber mind numbing grind.
Its a matter of perspective and how well the developers can 'mask' the grind mechanic. I can grind forever as long as its towards something worth while (aspects include story, music, atmospehere, etc). Its like a movie. A longer runtime doesnt make a movie better, its the content (or the draw).
If the game cant draw your attention, capture your imagination, then it will always be seen as a grind because there is nothing else to make you think otherwise.
That's it! Masking the grind is how to make the game fun. Works for me.
Well, when I played SWG that had almost no 'content' there was always stuff to do. I played for a year and a half and they didn't have any voice acting that I recall. In fact, there was so much to do and experience in SWG that had no 'content' that I had two accounts.
Some of the things I did:
started a guild
scouted for and built my house
decorated my house
shopping on different planets, always looking for the best deal or best stats
touch bases with crafters, have to keep on their radar
gathering materials for crafters or people in our guild
built a city
created a governement
defended an imp base I built
waged war repeatedly on two neighboring rebel cities and rebels where ever I found them in the world.
fishing (I don't know why. I guess to catch a bigger fish than my buddy? lol)
more house decorating
collecting trophies to place in my house
collecting guns and melee weapons for displays in my house
collecting paintings for my house because I have to...I just have to
experimenting with the best way to make fireplace and aquarium for my house
collecting pets
collecting outfits, cause my baby has to look good, i need an outfit for every occasion, lol
romance
guild drama
faction drama....certain reb keeps killing me....I keep upgrading my gear, practicing, can't kill him, none of my friends can kill him, make him my boyfriend, problem solved
dating someone of the oposite faction drama
jedi/bh drama
jump to light speed
starting a second toon for image design and crafting
makeovers for the guild!!!!!
give everyone pink afros then pretend you are bugged and cant change it back
becoming dedicated crafter
building my business
built a workshop, decorated it, have to level to get good npcs...i don't want any hobos selling my wears
fend off all the panting guys trying to date my character...should I tell them I'm a guy? Naaaa, I'm a roleplayer, lol, that would ruin it
more guild drama
city starts to fall apart
relocating to another city, starting over in a new guild
new character...rping a guy this time...hey this is fun...nice to be one of the guys
experimeting with my character, stacking defences, upgrades to clothing/armor, need spice food/drink/more shopping
ingame girlfriend (my wife is so understanding. Helped that I had an ingame bf before this though...its RP)
long drives in my two seater with my virtual sweetie
decorating my space cruiser....don't forget the bed!
long space trips with my little cutie pie.
Waging more war. Exacting revenge for past injustices.
Flirting with cute rebel girls while attacking their city.
Well, when I played SWG that had almost no 'content' there was always stuff to do. I played for a year and a half and they didn't have any voice acting that I recall. In fact, there was so much to do and experience in SWG that had no 'content' that I had two accounts.
Some of the things I did:
started a guild
scouted for and built my house
decorated my house
shopping on different planets, always looking for the best deal or best stats
touch bases with crafters, have to keep on their radar
gathering materials for crafters or people in our guild
built a city
created a governement
defended an imp base I built
waged war repeatedly on two neighboring rebel cities and rebels where ever I found them in the world.
fishing (I don't know why. I guess to catch a bigger fish than my buddy? lol)
more house decorating
collecting trophies to place in my house
collecting guns and melee weapons for displays in my house
collecting paintings for my house because I have to...I just have to
experimenting with the best way to make fireplace and aquarium for my house
collecting pets
collecting outfits, cause my baby has to look good, i need an outfit for every occasion, lol
romance
guild drama
faction drama....certain reb keeps killing me....I keep upgrading my gear, practicing, can't kill him, none of my friends can kill him, make him my boyfriend, problem solved
dating someone of the oposite faction drama
jedi/bh drama
jump to light speed
starting a second toon for image design and crafting
makeovers for the guild!!!!!
give everyone pink afros then pretend you are bugged and cant change it back
becoming dedicated crafter
building my business
built a workshop, decorated it, have to level to get good npcs...i don't want any hobos selling my wears
fend off all the panting guys trying to date my character...should I tell them I'm a guy? Naaaa, I'm a roleplayer, lol, that would ruin it
more guild drama
city starts to fall apart
relocating to another city, starting over in a new guild
new character...rping a guy this time...hey this is fun...nice to be one of the guys
experimeting with my character, stacking defences, upgrades to clothing/armor, need spice food/drink/more shopping
ingame girlfriend (my wife is so understanding. Helped that I had an ingame bf before this though...its RP)
long drives in my two seater with my virtual sweetie
decorating my space cruiser....don't forget the bed!
long space trips with my little cutie pie.
Waging more war. Exacting revenge for past injustices.
Flirting with cute rebel girls while attacking their city.
NGE....
You are not supposed to be Uncle Owen! XD
Or somewhat... lulz.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Who are you to say that someone cant prefer sandbox games but still like SWTOR. Shes not insulting anyone, she is simply stating some opinions.
[Mod Edit]
If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!
Devs do listen to their players, thats' exactly the reason why MMOs are what they are today.
We oldschoolers just have to face the fact that we have become the exception to the rule. Our worlds of old exist no more, our voices matter not, at least not anymore. While we flood forums with our complaints about the pace, we get flooded ourselves by a plethora of fanboys claiming the exact opposite, labelling us old and about to become extinct.
We just have to either put up or shut up and move on.
I haven't touched SW:tOR and probably won't. I have given up on MMOs that look like typical MMOs. I loved DAoC and enjoyed that game. I still hold as my best MMO experience overall as EQ. I never got past 33 on that game as I played on friends PCs as I didn't have one but I could watch them and the fact that they would camp spawns for a piece of gear and it last them a week+ made it awesome. I seem to play more FPS now than RPG because the massive multi-player experience is more satisfying to me in a FPS over RPG because I feel no accomplishment in most RPGs. Of the MMORPGs I have bought in last 5 years, FFXIV is only one that catches my attention and I have fun with. And I know how much hate that game has gotten but I actually feel like I was having to try in that game.
Devs do listen to their players, thats' exactly the reason why MMOs are what they are today.
We oldschoolers just have to face the fact that we have become the exception to the rule. Our worlds of old exist no more, our voices matter not, at least not anymore. While we flood forums with our complaints about the pace, we get flooded ourselves by a plethora of fanboys claiming the exact opposite, labelling us old and about to become extinct.
We just have to either put up or shut up and move on.
What do you mean by 'put up or shut up and move on' though...are you expecting me at 42 years of age to quit my profitable career at a time when it's hard to find a good job, go back to college and spend 30 to 60 grand, and then take an internship making minimum wage to get my foot in the door.
I play games to be entertained, just like I watch movies and listen to music. The fact that I am not crazy about the current crop of movies doesn't mean I have any interest in becoming a movie/music director and producer.
So I'll still ask for the things I like. I'll still vote with my dollars. SWTOR is an ok game. It's not horrible. I'm tentatively giving it two months and will reassess. The blinking/flickering/stuttering has improved or completely abated, and the ability delay is much less.
Isabelle Parsley, sorry but you're NOT a "sandbox player at heart". Saying that can even be considered a DIRECT insult to sandbox players after you just gave such a glowing opinion of SWTOR.
SWTOR is a poorly designed EXACT clone of World of Warcraft with a StarWars theme & voiced main storyline. It isn't good, and if YOU like it then I am sorry, but you are NOT a sandbox player whatsoever.
I am sorry, but it needed to be said. Insulting sandbox players isn't cool when we STILL have yet to be given a AAA sandbox title done right. What you said is misrepresentation of a fanbase, and it would have been like me saying "I'm an Artist at heart, but I absolutely LOVE Lady Gaga". Let's face it, we all know Lady Gaga isn't about art, but the money.
Interesting but wrong, I cut my teeth on swg, pre nge will always be my fav game probably ever but I still like swtor. I gave swtor an 8 and am still playing it but I far prefer sandboxes. So before you take that attitude consider the fact that some of us sandboxers do enjoy games outside of the sandbox genre and you clearly don't speak for us all.
Devs do listen to their players, thats' exactly the reason why MMOs are what they are today.
We oldschoolers just have to face the fact that we have become the exception to the rule. Our worlds of old exist no more, our voices matter not, at least not anymore. While we flood forums with our complaints about the pace, we get flooded ourselves by a plethora of fanboys claiming the exact opposite, labelling us old and about to become extinct.
We just have to either put up or shut up and move on.
When the masses are moving on along with us, maybe we aren't the minority that the "content locusts" (read: hardcore Themepark lovers) claim we are.
The real question to me is are themeparks really designed to be long-term homes for gamers, or are they designed to be games that we play until we get our fill? To me the design seems to fit the latter, a game you can play for months and consume as you go. The entire design seems to be about consumption. We can only consume so much before we get full.
IS a game that kept you playing for 3-4 month intervals or longer, really failing to be what it's intended to be?
SWG wasn't a game made for consumption, it was a design all about community building and forging your own way. This design lends itself to being a home for gamers, I don't see this in any form in games like TOR, RIFT, WOW, etc...
I would agree with you, that the themepark design generally isn't created to last. That being said, there certainly are themepark games which have been able to persist, such as WoW, but they are few and far between. Most often than not, we play these themepark MMO's for a couple months, discover the glaring issues that they almost always carry, and realize how ultimately shallow the experience is. I don't really want to get into a discussion regarding themepark vs. sandbox, but I do believe that this reason, that the design of themeparks is relatively short lived in comparison to sandbox games, is why you see such a vocal community calling these games CRPG's, or CORPG's. They don't even feel massive anymore, or otherworldly. What they do feel like is the same linear style gameplay I get on my consoles, which games contain exactly the opposite in regards to design as I would desire in an MMO.
MMO's of late certainly feel more "gamey", but I don't think that's a good thing. In fact, I think it's the antithesis to the entire concept of the genre. To say MMO's can't exist for all preferences is ridiculous, but there's certainly a philosophical question that developers need to begin confronting: should they be designing MMO's for short term consumption or longevity, and what about their specific design structure keeps their advertised-as-MMO product within the genre.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
"that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game."
Thats the majority since WoW. We call them casuals for a reason as most never played the older mmorpgs!
It took me 6 months to reach level cap in Aion (first time around), just as you suggest in your article.
What happened at launch: "Oh no this game is a massive grind", "It takes too long to level". etc, you have all read the posts, the endless posts!
I personally agree I want to need 3-4 months to level minimum!! However, most gamers seem to be infected by modern (not vanilla) WoW and want to reach max in <1 month. Stupidity if you ask me.
I think SWTOR will be the last US MMO I buy (I am english for those wondering) they are simply too american. Bland and easy, its as though they take a great idea and turn it into fast food and the end game is "do you want cheese with that?"
Please note that was not intended to be anti america just the best example I could think of.
Alot of people want a mmo with a lot to do at max level not just grinding for more gear. Cities are a good start good housing with full decoration and item placment. Good usefull crafting not loot based gear. Reasons to be social that arn't a pain or dreadful reasons that are fun and needed and lots to do at end game for content and rewards to fill both sense of completing it and somthing you would want. Tor has a good story and if you rush your wasting it it think Tor as a game is ok long term it will probley fall off to the wayside like so many mmo's that could have been great. I like Tor but think it will shrink alot in time.
I m currently playing eq2 and swtor. I love both games and see great things still to come, especially in SWTOR. I can t wait for gw2, D3, and PS 2. That said I miss the slow leveling bigtime. I remember when DAOC first came out, it took me 1.5 years to hit max. In that time I looked forward to logging in everyday, because everything felt like an accomplishment. The community was amazing because of this. We needed each other. I also LOVED FFXI, for that reason. Everything and I mean everything had a purpose. Now you don t really need anyone and things feel almost lifeless.
Heres hoping FFXIV 2.0 can be alot more like FFXI, then WOW and i ll be happy again.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
The one thing missing from all styles of games that I have played is great questing locations.
The quests themselves are to linear goal oriented with a specific location marked out on a map.
If the games has more action styles quests that required jump, climbing, use of special spells/abilities/equipement to get to higher places, swimming to different areas, triggers to open doors, keys found in different dungeons or random drops, etc.
It is like developers think if they just make the story interesting they can forget about making the ADVENTURE of traveling the land and going the dungeons interesting. The land and the dungeons are the setting that help tell the story
Asheron's Call made some amazing quests and dungeons that I haven't seen equaled in any game since. There where dungeons where you had to jump up and up and up the entire time to get to the goal at the top while fighting flying mobs all the way. There was a dungeon that spiraled all the way down to the goal at the end. There were entire islands that where large quests where you had to do a lot of things in many dungeons to get to the end.
Quests these days are just go to this marked place, kill something, and watch a cutscene or read some type.
Items are also not as rare as they were back then. Back then when you finished a quest or got a rare random item from a mob or a chest you were extremely exited. These days there is just many items or to few rare ones that you can set a goal and go out and get.
That's kinda why I see brilliance in Eve. Levelling speed is no longer the driving motivator for what you choose to do. Since there's no way to "grind" your skills, you're stuck with doing... whatever you WANT to do.
But then, I've been lucky in that I don't feel that huge rush to get to max level like many do. The only time I felt that way is when that's ALL there is to do, as was the case in STO at launch.
SWTOR and LotRO both are pretty good at making me not feel urged to rush to max level, though LotRO does it better. There are places in LotRO that just feel like a HOME(not just your house) and you just wanna relax and craft for a while, or even fish, of all things.
TOR does lack that feeling, that homey place to put your feet up and relax. What's more, the main stories have you feeling the urgency to keep moving forward. But at least, I still like to take a detour and wander the maps to see what's going on.
Talking like this, a person might think that I dug the UO/EQ first gen world building approach.
Not really. People complain about how empty TOR is... EQ and UO felt FAR more empty to me. Just a bunch of monsters standing around waiting for you to kill them, in dull, random seeming scenery. I'm not wowed by 1 mile of this; having 1000 miles of it won't change a thing.
I'm hoping for something in a happy medium. A game that can find a way to talk players into getting off the XP trail to relax for a bit.
Not that i dont want player built cities and such, but WoW kind of single handedly disproves your little theory. Vanilla WoW was no different than SWToR in regards to social features.
SWToR, at max level, has story, raids, minigames (space), Dungeons, Warfronts, Illum and crafting. Just as many things as GW2.
Quality of them is another matter. Having things to do doesnt help much if they arent implemented right.
Leveling speed is the least of SWTOR problems.
This is just a typical reminiscing rant seeing things through rose colored glasses. "I had to walk to school in the snow, up hill both ways, barefoot. And we drank turpentine for lunch and we liked it! Oh how great we felt." There's a reason MMOs were niche games back then.
It's the same reasoning over and over again with any mmo that comes out since WoW launched.
It's the leveling is to fast, gear is forgettable, game over in a few weeks, I have 293 max level toons.
The difference between the late 90's mmo's and the current crop of crap is the people developing them. It's no longer passionate people who just finished playing a game of D&D with their friends and are now taking our fantasy dreams into a 3d virutal world.
It is money hungry corporations that have dollar signs in their eyes after smelling blood in the water of the mmo genre.
"Hey Bob, you know WoW makes a trillion billion dollars a month from their subs?"
"No shit? Well we have a billion dollars to throw around, lets buy up some gaming company and force them to make a clone of WoW so we can make money off these geeks too!"
That was a part of the conversation EA execs had before they bought and raped Mythic and spit out WAR.
The MMORPG genre is DEAD, these games coming out are not anything but stagnant copies of each other and the greedy pigs behind them are profitting off our stupidty, yes our because I fall for this shit cycle too.
We all knew what SWTOR was going to be like even if we didn't have beta access, some of us just choose not to believe what was known for our own sake of hoping it would change this dead pool.
I mean, come on, why do you think every mmo that is being launched over the last few years moves closer and closer to being a single player game with co-op mini games (pvp).
The best age for mmo's was its beginning and what I refer to as the golden age. EQ1, DAOC, AC, UO, Nexustk, games like those were when mmo's were truly mmo's to the core.
Dwarf Paladin in full bronze armor I looted off goblins getting trained constantly in Unrest by groups running for their lives from a named in the basement narrowly escaping death by the savior of a zone line.
That is what made me happy and kept my blood racing, I honestly can't even remember anything about any of the other characters in any other mmo I've played since, and I've played them all.
Why? Because they all blend together into a blur of mindless garbage with pretty pictures that just fly by since it is a never ending race of "go here, kill that, now go here and kill that, GO GO GO GO GO!!!!!" congrats you are now level 50, time played 3 days.
I spent a week in The Overthere at a ledge group with a friend and some swedish people we met camping mobs to get into my 30's level range, we talked, we laughed, we cried when we got wiped by a dragoons. It was adventure.
Christ, I could go on about how mmo's have betrayed themselves for hours but I'll stop here since nobody reads anything unless it's trolling someone.
I call BS on this one, ok CLASS quests ONLY maybe, but not content total leveling up. If you do Taris, Tatooine, Balmorra, and Hoth you have more than 200 hours of content. If you do it all, on those 4 planets, class quests, misc quests, bonus quests, area quests, and all the heroics you will be there FOREVER. And that doesn't include datacrons, named champions, and world bosses, or actually exploring the entire map of each of these planets. If you say the whole game has less than 200 hours of content...you skipped some. And that is just 4 planets.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
AMEN !!!!
-----
Pay-to-Win / F2P will be the death of real gaming, Boycott it !!
That's it! Masking the grind is how to make the game fun. Works for me.
Well, when I played SWG that had almost no 'content' there was always stuff to do. I played for a year and a half and they didn't have any voice acting that I recall. In fact, there was so much to do and experience in SWG that had no 'content' that I had two accounts.
Some of the things I did:
started a guild
scouted for and built my house
decorated my house
shopping on different planets, always looking for the best deal or best stats
touch bases with crafters, have to keep on their radar
gathering materials for crafters or people in our guild
built a city
created a governement
defended an imp base I built
waged war repeatedly on two neighboring rebel cities and rebels where ever I found them in the world.
fishing (I don't know why. I guess to catch a bigger fish than my buddy? lol)
more house decorating
collecting trophies to place in my house
collecting guns and melee weapons for displays in my house
collecting paintings for my house because I have to...I just have to
experimenting with the best way to make fireplace and aquarium for my house
collecting pets
collecting outfits, cause my baby has to look good, i need an outfit for every occasion, lol
romance
guild drama
faction drama....certain reb keeps killing me....I keep upgrading my gear, practicing, can't kill him, none of my friends can kill him, make him my boyfriend, problem solved
dating someone of the oposite faction drama
jedi/bh drama
jump to light speed
starting a second toon for image design and crafting
makeovers for the guild!!!!!
give everyone pink afros then pretend you are bugged and cant change it back
becoming dedicated crafter
building my business
built a workshop, decorated it, have to level to get good npcs...i don't want any hobos selling my wears
fend off all the panting guys trying to date my character...should I tell them I'm a guy? Naaaa, I'm a roleplayer, lol, that would ruin it
more guild drama
city starts to fall apart
relocating to another city, starting over in a new guild
new character...rping a guy this time...hey this is fun...nice to be one of the guys
experimeting with my character, stacking defences, upgrades to clothing/armor, need spice food/drink/more shopping
ingame girlfriend (my wife is so understanding. Helped that I had an ingame bf before this though...its RP)
long drives in my two seater with my virtual sweetie
decorating my space cruiser....don't forget the bed!
long space trips with my little cutie pie.
Waging more war. Exacting revenge for past injustices.
Flirting with cute rebel girls while attacking their city.
NGE....
You are not supposed to be Uncle Owen! XD
Or somewhat... lulz.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Who are you to say that someone cant prefer sandbox games but still like SWTOR. Shes not insulting anyone, she is simply stating some opinions.
[Mod Edit]
If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!
Swtor deserves the 8.7 rating MMORPG.com gave it. lol.
Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
And overall bitter old man.
Devs do listen to their players, thats' exactly the reason why MMOs are what they are today.
We oldschoolers just have to face the fact that we have become the exception to the rule. Our worlds of old exist no more, our voices matter not, at least not anymore. While we flood forums with our complaints about the pace, we get flooded ourselves by a plethora of fanboys claiming the exact opposite, labelling us old and about to become extinct.
We just have to either put up or shut up and move on.
I haven't touched SW:tOR and probably won't. I have given up on MMOs that look like typical MMOs. I loved DAoC and enjoyed that game. I still hold as my best MMO experience overall as EQ. I never got past 33 on that game as I played on friends PCs as I didn't have one but I could watch them and the fact that they would camp spawns for a piece of gear and it last them a week+ made it awesome. I seem to play more FPS now than RPG because the massive multi-player experience is more satisfying to me in a FPS over RPG because I feel no accomplishment in most RPGs. Of the MMORPGs I have bought in last 5 years, FFXIV is only one that catches my attention and I have fun with. And I know how much hate that game has gotten but I actually feel like I was having to try in that game.
What do you mean by 'put up or shut up and move on' though...are you expecting me at 42 years of age to quit my profitable career at a time when it's hard to find a good job, go back to college and spend 30 to 60 grand, and then take an internship making minimum wage to get my foot in the door.
I play games to be entertained, just like I watch movies and listen to music. The fact that I am not crazy about the current crop of movies doesn't mean I have any interest in becoming a movie/music director and producer.
So I'll still ask for the things I like. I'll still vote with my dollars. SWTOR is an ok game. It's not horrible. I'm tentatively giving it two months and will reassess. The blinking/flickering/stuttering has improved or completely abated, and the ability delay is much less.
Interesting but wrong, I cut my teeth on swg, pre nge will always be my fav game probably ever but I still like swtor. I gave swtor an 8 and am still playing it but I far prefer sandboxes. So before you take that attitude consider the fact that some of us sandboxers do enjoy games outside of the sandbox genre and you clearly don't speak for us all.
When the masses are moving on along with us, maybe we aren't the minority that the "content locusts" (read: hardcore Themepark lovers) claim we are.
Once upon a time....
I would agree with you, that the themepark design generally isn't created to last. That being said, there certainly are themepark games which have been able to persist, such as WoW, but they are few and far between. Most often than not, we play these themepark MMO's for a couple months, discover the glaring issues that they almost always carry, and realize how ultimately shallow the experience is. I don't really want to get into a discussion regarding themepark vs. sandbox, but I do believe that this reason, that the design of themeparks is relatively short lived in comparison to sandbox games, is why you see such a vocal community calling these games CRPG's, or CORPG's. They don't even feel massive anymore, or otherworldly. What they do feel like is the same linear style gameplay I get on my consoles, which games contain exactly the opposite in regards to design as I would desire in an MMO.
MMO's of late certainly feel more "gamey", but I don't think that's a good thing. In fact, I think it's the antithesis to the entire concept of the genre. To say MMO's can't exist for all preferences is ridiculous, but there's certainly a philosophical question that developers need to begin confronting: should they be designing MMO's for short term consumption or longevity, and what about their specific design structure keeps their advertised-as-MMO product within the genre.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
"that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game."
Thats the majority since WoW. We call them casuals for a reason as most never played the older mmorpgs!
It took me 6 months to reach level cap in Aion (first time around), just as you suggest in your article.
What happened at launch: "Oh no this game is a massive grind", "It takes too long to level". etc, you have all read the posts, the endless posts!
I personally agree I want to need 3-4 months to level minimum!! However, most gamers seem to be infected by modern (not vanilla) WoW and want to reach max in <1 month. Stupidity if you ask me.
I think SWTOR will be the last US MMO I buy (I am english for those wondering) they are simply too american. Bland and easy, its as though they take a great idea and turn it into fast food and the end game is "do you want cheese with that?"
Please note that was not intended to be anti america just the best example I could think of.
Healing the world since 2005
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Alot of people want a mmo with a lot to do at max level not just grinding for more gear. Cities are a good start good housing with full decoration and item placment. Good usefull crafting not loot based gear. Reasons to be social that arn't a pain or dreadful reasons that are fun and needed and lots to do at end game for content and rewards to fill both sense of completing it and somthing you would want. Tor has a good story and if you rush your wasting it it think Tor as a game is ok long term it will probley fall off to the wayside like so many mmo's that could have been great. I like Tor but think it will shrink alot in time.
I m currently playing eq2 and swtor. I love both games and see great things still to come, especially in SWTOR. I can t wait for gw2, D3, and PS 2. That said I miss the slow leveling bigtime. I remember when DAOC first came out, it took me 1.5 years to hit max. In that time I looked forward to logging in everyday, because everything felt like an accomplishment. The community was amazing because of this. We needed each other. I also LOVED FFXI, for that reason. Everything and I mean everything had a purpose. Now you don t really need anyone and things feel almost lifeless.
Heres hoping FFXIV 2.0 can be alot more like FFXI, then WOW and i ll be happy again.
Like player driven forums of mmorpg.com? That would be a horrible result.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"