"Back in EQ1 it usedto be considered rude to inspect someones gear without asking. Now most games do not even tell you if your being inspected removing the knowledge of the intrusion."
Very True, I remember those days, and even during EQ1 days I still did inspect people if I saw something I liked, BUT did that after asking for permission to inspect from the person.
Performance analysis? how can you relax and immerse when your being analysed by your team mates?
maybe its the best a player can do...Don't think its anyone's place to judge.
Wiping repeatedly to what should be easy content isn't my idea of fun. If it's happening, and I've beaten this particular boss a zillion times, I'm going to investigate the issue.
If party members are underperforming and we're still doing fine, it usually doesn't go any further than that. I'm totally OK with carrying a subpar player provided it doesn't prevent me from finishing the dungeon or whatever. I'm not OK with carrying bots, but that's another matter.
If we're wiping, on the other hand, I'm going to do something about it, be it offer advice or remove them, depending on the circumstances.
Performance analysis? how can you relax and immerse when your being analysed by your team mates?
maybe its the best a player can do...Don't think its anyone's place to judge.
Wiping repeatedly to what should be easy content isn't my idea of fun. If it's happening, and I've beaten this particular boss a zillion times, I'm going to investigate the issue.
If party members are underperforming and we're still doing fine, it usually doesn't go any further than that. I'm totally OK with carrying a subpar player provided it doesn't prevent me from finishing the dungeon or whatever. I'm not OK with carrying bots, but that's another matter.
If we're wiping, on the other hand, I'm going to do something about it, be it offer advice or remove them, depending on the circumstances.
Either way, bad players get inspected.
True if you are getting wiped over and over it is important to find the reason. I agree with you on that!
I must admit it did happen to me one time and I was happy that someone did offer advice or help! Thouh there is one time a group I was in a group and the whole time 2 people were arguing back and forth disagreeing with eachother and blaming eachother cause each one thinks he is right and the other is causing the wipe. Now that was an annoying run for me and I could not wait till it was over so I can leave the group.
never actually given a toss about my own gear,nevermind anyone else's..i dont play online games for gear...i play em for fun.i guess thats why i got 12 mmo's in my system,if i went for gear that would go down to 2 max.
I have to admit, I do check other players regularly. I call it R & D. It is often a good way to see gear that you haven't attained or are completely unaware of. Also, if players are underperforming or over performing, I like to know why.
Often, I will see items such as Talismans/Rep items etc that I haven't seen before and it will lead me on a path of discovery to see how I can get those items.
How gear is equipped and how it is used can often tell me a lot about the player and their preferred playing style.
Wiping repeatedly to what should be easy content isn't my idea of fun. If it's happening, and I've beaten this particular boss a zillion times,
me me me. Why does this just shout "I just want My loot" - I will use you guys to get it. This easy content you refer too could be 'quite fucking hard' for some new people? empathy, use it.
If party members are underperforming and we're still doing fine, it usually doesn't go any further than that. I'm totally OK with carrying a subpar player provided it doesn't prevent me from finishing the dungeon or whatever. I'm not OK with carrying bots, but that's another matter.
Its ok until shit goes downhill then you have blame someone right?
If we're wiping, on the other hand, I'm going to do something about it, be it offer advice or remove them, depending on the circumstances.
Either way, bad players get inspected.
Bad players or "baddies" I hear the wow people call it now.. there's no such thing as a bad player just Inexperienced or undergeared relevant to different people.
I'm sorry if this is a dated way of thinking in today's standards but what happened to the values of "Fun" "Community" and "Helping"?
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There are definitely bad, bad, just absolutely terrible players. In every mmorpg I've played, I've encountered plenty of just terrible players. They are there. They exist. They can and sometimes will make your group gimp as fuck. I very rarely ever say anything, but I do notice when someone sucks as a player.
Wiping repeatedly to what should be easy content isn't my idea of fun. If it's happening, and I've beaten this particular boss a zillion times,
me me me.
Why does this just shout "I just want My loot" - I will use you guys to get it.
This easy content you refer too could be 'quite fucking hard' for some new people?
empathy, use it.
If party members are underperforming and we're still doing fine, it usually doesn't go any further than that. I'm totally OK with carrying a subpar player provided it doesn't prevent me from finishing the dungeon or whatever. I'm not OK with carrying bots, but that's another matter.
Its ok until shit goes downhill then you have blame someone right?
If we're wiping, on the other hand, I'm going to do something about it, be it offer advice or remove them, depending on the circumstances.
Either way, bad players get inspected.
Bad players or "baddies" I hear the wow people call it now.. there's no such thing as a bad player just Inexperienced or undergeared relevant to different people.
I'm sorry if this is a dated way of thinking in today's standards but what happened to the values of "Fun" "Community" and "Helping"?
So, here's the thing. An intelligent person's method of problem-solving, especially when it comes to something they already know quite a lot about already, typically begins with identifying variables. Your party members are variables. Their gear, their class, and their talents are also variables. When a problem arises, you investigate, you find the unfavorable variable, and you correct it. Whether this means booting someone from the group, or suggesting to them that maybe using melee weapons exclusively isn't the best play style for a hunter, you're solving the problem based on what you see happening. So, yes, when things are going bad and they very well should not be, I find the source of the issue. No need to try to villainize me for that.
And yes, some players are bad. Some playersare terrible. Some of my best friends are awful, awful gamers, who simply cannot be taught, and don't really care to be. And that's fine! They aren't lesser human beings for it, and we're still friends. Some of my other friends have surprised me after doing a little research, cleaning up their playstyle and changing up their talents or gear a bit for the better.
I mean, are you suggesting that when you are in a group, and you can't finish the dungeon you're doing, you continue slamming your head against the same brick wall for hours until the servers shut down? I get the feeling you didn't even read my post - I'm completely fine with helping a player out with tips and advice when they need it, and you're telling me not to ruin their "fun." Regardless, some people cannot be helped, and are dead-set in their ways. At that point, their "fun" is ruining my fun, and they get the boot.
I've only ever kicked maybe five people out of a group in my entire time playing MMORPGs. It is an absolute last resort, and I'll try my damnedest to help pull the group together and make it a positive experience in which people learned something every single time. But if I want to know why Jackowacko is doing 500 DPS when the standard for his class is 10,000, a quick gear check will probably tell me quite a bit about exactly how to approach solving the issue.
Yeh, I usually do look at guildies/friends gear to see what combinations work for them or even a good opponent I face and try to see what they have going. Hell I inspect random people, even noobs for the sake of doing it. Call it curiosity if you will but it always interests me.
Only time another person's gear affects me is in PUGs. Even then, I don't have to look. It's easy to see when the tank is taking much more damage than normal. The reason is almost always gear.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Only time another person's gear affects me is in PUGs. Even then, I don't have to look. It's easy to see when the tank is taking much more damage than normal. The reason is almost always gear.
Almost always. Say you check his gear and it looks good, then what? You can rule that out, and then look for the other things that might be wrong. Is he in Defensive stance? What? No? He's in Berserker Stance? Well, that could be an issue. Maybe he's using Defensive Stance and wearing all the right gear, but his spec isn't even built toward tanking. That's another possibility. Maybe he just forgot to switch specs or gear sets before starting pulls. Hey, it happens.
But even then, there are some situations where a tank will need to do a particular thing to take less damage, like move away while the mob is standing there channeling a melee attack that doesn't follow him, or use cooldowns at the right times to reduce heavy-damage periods. These are all player knowledge and skill, and if everything else checks out, you know the problem is with the player if this hypothetical tank is still getting whooped. There's a lot more to tanking than gear.
Regardless, a quick inspect is the best way to begin troubleshooting when things aren't going as they should. It's the first thing you should look at.
oh GOD don't ask any of the world of warcraft players this because as one they even had mods that just autochecked the score to see if people would do better in dungeons or not and began booting people from groups, it got so bad that blizz had to break the mods for a time.
I have checked out other players gear once or twice when I really liked the look of it in EQ2 to check where I could get the same for my fashion slot.
Otherwise I sometimes done it while waiting for a player to the group, but that is more out of boredom than anything else. I must say that I was surprised how crappy gear many tanks wore though. Never kicked anyone for crappy gear though, it is not what you have but what you do with it that matters (even though several of those tanks indeed got kicked but because incompetence instead, not all though).
I have checked out other players gear once or twice when I really liked the look of it in EQ2 to check where I could get the same for my fashion slot.
Otherwise I sometimes done it while waiting for a player to the group, but that is more out of boredom than anything else. I must say that I was surprised how crappy gear many tanks wore though. Never kicked anyone for crappy gear though, it is not what you have but what you do with it that matters (even though several of those tanks indeed got kicked but because incompetence instead, not all though).
very true. i joined once a guild in one mmo dont wanna mention name cause otherwise its been said too much here.. =p
well anyway my gear was shit as hell and i started raiding dungeons with them and was healing better than any of those nicely geared healers and become main healer in no time , its not about gear so much its about what you do and how.
but i dont want to know what whos having and etc i think gearscoring players is stupid idea.
I hate the function to be able to see another players gear or stats, its imo completely retarded. L2 style, if the player wishes to they can link the items or you can look at their character and see what gear it has on if you recognize it.
What kind of enchantments or such a player have on their gear and such should imo be secret, let others figure out alone... Why should everything be so damn simple these days, why should there be functions to do everything fast and easy. I wish there was less teleportfunctions and whisper functions in games then maybe some of the exploration and mysteries would come back a bit.
Only time another person's gear affects me is in PUGs. Even then, I don't have to look. It's easy to see when the tank is taking much more damage than normal. The reason is almost always gear.
Almost always. Say you check his gear and it looks good, then what? You can rule that out, and then look for the other things that might be wrong. Is he in Defensive stance? What? No? He's in Berserker Stance? Well, that could be an issue. Maybe he's using Defensive Stance and wearing all the right gear, but his spec isn't even built toward tanking. That's another possibility. Maybe he just forgot to switch specs or gear sets before starting pulls. Hey, it happens.
But even then, there are some situations where a tank will need to do a particular thing to take less damage, like move away while the mob is standing there channeling a melee attack that doesn't follow him, or use cooldowns at the right times to reduce heavy-damage periods. These are all player knowledge and skill, and if everything else checks out, you know the problem is with the player if this hypothetical tank is still getting whooped. There's a lot more to tanking than gear.
Regardless, a quick inspect is the best way to begin troubleshooting when things aren't going as they should. It's the first thing you should look at.
ah wow disease, troubleshooting? Checking out people to make sure they have an understanding equal to yours? what happens when you see something you don't like? Yhey are not going to suddenly change there and then. What happens when someone better than you inspects you and makes comment on something they dont like? usually it is rudeness, lack of respect, arguements, threats to leave pugs etc etc.
Inspecting should be for fun or to see how you personally can improve you have no business telling others how to play a game. Hardcore raiding is a little different, that's competitive gaming and should be treated more professionally with raid leaders being more proactive, but even then good raid leaders often trust their players to work out best practice amongst themeselves through discussions, rather than 'inspecting people'
This is where a lot of the elitism rubbish came from unfortunately, lack of respect and trust and people too free with their critisisms (justified or not) Sometimes it is ok to play with people that are just not as good as you and play less than perfect, you don't need a flawless run/raid/pug to have fun.
im not having a go at your post personally, its more the 'perfect performance culture in wow, it went way to far to the point where even casual pug play was afffected by this. more fun less seriousness and need to rush through content perfectly.
edit, example inspecting peoples gems and enchants, you often heard people slagging off other peoples builds, when actually it only represented a fraction of their performance, its irrelevant and should be left for people to explore and have fun. its ok for them not to have an optimal setup in a pug.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I hate the function to be able to see another players gear or stats, its imo completely retarded. L2 style, if the player wishes to they can link the items or you can look at their character and see what gear it has on if you recognize it.
What kind of enchantments or such a player have on their gear and such should imo be secret, let others figure out alone... Why should everything be so damn simple these days, why should there be functions to do everything fast and easy. I wish there was less teleportfunctions and whisper functions in games then maybe some of the exploration and mysteries would come back a bit.
Well, the real reason for it is lazyness of the devs.
If you could see all the gear a player is wearing and all of it have unique skins then there is no reasons for this feature.
Like 2 warriors starring at eachother before deciding if they should attack or not, they can see what the other guy(or gal) is wearing. In MMOs far too much stuff share the same skin and you can´t see stuff like rings, earrings neclaces in most games.
I think it partly is because lazyness since there isn´t any technical reason for it anymore (there was in the 90s) and partly it is because we would see how silly your tough male barbarian looks with all his silly jewelry on.
So yeah, in a game you can recognize the gear it is something we don´t need. And we certainly shouldn´t see buffs or specific spells cast on the player or his gear.
But with the info we can see by looking on a current MMO avatar the function makes sense.
I hate the function to be able to see another players gear or stats, its imo completely retarded. L2 style, if the player wishes to they can link the items or you can look at their character and see what gear it has on if you recognize it.
What kind of enchantments or such a player have on their gear and such should imo be secret, let others figure out alone... Why should everything be so damn simple these days, why should there be functions to do everything fast and easy. I wish there was less teleportfunctions and whisper functions in games then maybe some of the exploration and mysteries would come back a bit.
Well, the real reason for it is lazyness of the devs.
If you could see all the gear a player is wearing and all of it have unique skins then there is no reasons for this feature.
Like 2 warriors starring at eachother before deciding if they should attack or not, they can see what the other guy(or gal) is wearing. In MMOs far too much stuff share the same skin and you can´t see stuff like rings, earrings neclaces in most games.
I think it partly is because lazyness since there isn´t any technical reason for it anymore (there was in the 90s) and partly it is because we would see how silly your tough male barbarian looks with all his silly jewelry on.
So yeah, in a game you can recognize the gear it is something we don´t need. And we certainly shouldn´t see buffs or specific spells cast on the player or his gear.
But with the info we can see by looking on a current MMO avatar the function makes sense.
in WOW it was used to inspect enchants,gemming etc. OMG you ar wearing stamina gems instead of expertise gems etc etc. Think you are bang on, gear should be seen and not inspected
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
What happens when somoene better than you inspects you and makes comment on something they dont like?
Excellent question! I remember when Burning Crusade had just come out; I was playing one of the shiny new Paladins we Horde players hadn't had access to before. I was in a guild at the time, and had gotten my paladin up to about level 30 or so. Someone in my guild asked, "What's the best spec for levelling a paladin?"
I replied with, "Retribution is the best." I was specced Retribution, and I found it to be fairly easy to level up with.
After that, another person in the guild piped up. He was a druid player, and he said "Actually Retribution will leave you with a lot of downtime and if you have to fight more than one thing at a time you might be in trouble. You have to kill things one by one, and drink to recover mana very often. If you were to use a Protection spec, you could pull a bunch of things, kill them all at once, and never have to drink."
Now, I could have argued with him, and said that no, Retribution was a better spec, but I said "Huh, really? Well, maybe I'll try that myself, then." Both of us ended up doing so, and at that time, the druid was right; Protection was a far superior spec for levelling. It's not really true anymore, but that's not the point. The point was that I had stated my opinion, received a counter-opinion, and then after putting it to the test, changed my outlook. Years later that druid player, who I still talk to, told me that that exact exchange was when he realized I was "good people," and a "good player." I was doin' it rong, and I wasn't too prideful to take what someone else said into consideration. In the end, we were all better off.
And that's the real difference: a good player doesn't always do the optimal thing, a good player always seeks the optimal thing.
That's why I'm totally fine with offering advice to people when they clearly need it. I've needed it before, too, and I'm glad someone corrected me. What people do with others' suggestions is up to them in the end, sure, but I still think it's a disservice to your fellow gamer not to point it out to them when they're doing something incorrectly or suboptimally.
What happens when somoene better than you inspects you and makes comment on something they dont like?
Excellent question! I remember when Burning Crusade had just come out; I was playing one of the shiny new Paladins we Horde players hadn't had access to before. I was in a guild at the time, and had gotten my paladin up to about level 30 or so. Someone in my guild asked, "What's the best spec for levelling a paladin?"
I replied with, "Retribution is the best." I was specced Retribution, and I found it to be fairly easy to level up with.
After that, another person in the guild piped up. He was a druid player, and he said "Actually Retribution will leave you with a lot of downtime and if you have to fight more than one thing at a time you might be in trouble. You have to kill things one by one, and drink to recover mana very often. If you were to use a Protection spec, you could pull a bunch of things, kill them all at once, and never have to drink."
Now, I could have argued with him, and said that no, Retribution was a better spec, but I said "Huh, really? Well, maybe I'll try that myself, then." Both of us ended up doing so, and at that time, the druid was right; Protection was a far superior spec for levelling. It's not really true anymore, but that's not the point. The point was that I had stated my opinion, received a counter-opinion, and then after putting it to the test, changed my outlook. Years later that druid player, who I still talk to, told me that that exact exchange was when he realized I was "good people," and a "good player." I was doin' it rong, and I wasn't too prideful to take what someone else said into consideration. In the end, we were all better off.
And that's the real difference: a good player doesn't always do the optimal thing, a good player always seeks the optimal thing.
That's why I'm totally fine with offering advice to people when they clearly need it. I've needed it before, too, and I'm glad someone corrected me. What people do with others' suggestions is up to them in the end, sure, but I still think it's a disservice to your fellow gamer not to point it out to them when they're doing something incorrectly or suboptimally.
Read just the bolded part for the tl;dr version.
Remember some players are not as good and are not seeking to be optimal, but actually they are nice people who are good fun to play with, but need to be compensated for by better players. (and im saying this as somenoe who was obsessed with reaching perfect results at all times)
I agree however giving and accepting advice is a great thing when done in the right spirit and context and you give a good example. An anti-example as it were (and im sure you have seen this as well) is where you are in a pug raid and after just 1 wipe on the boss you see someone type in chat, "omg the tank doesnt even have shoulder enchants" etc. Actually the issue is more likely to be lack of experience with the boss mechanics, and the answer is more discussion on tactics and more retries and reorganising the raid to work around player strengths and weaknesses. Offen however in PUGS you got no patience or empathy, open critisism, bullying and kicking of players, and Gear checking was often amunition for this behaviour.
As with real life, you have to judge wether someone would be offended if you give advice, and never be critical when you do. If you think the person would be offended then you have no business giving advice, unless you have a professional obligation and relationship with the person.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
Yeah like other people said, I check gear if it looks cool to see what the cool looking items are called.
Not really. But I love running away when people are inspecting me so their inspection window closes and they have to chase me around! Hilarious!
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
AAAAH!.....so that was you I chased around town one day huh!
Wiping repeatedly to what should be easy content isn't my idea of fun. If it's happening, and I've beaten this particular boss a zillion times, I'm going to investigate the issue.
If party members are underperforming and we're still doing fine, it usually doesn't go any further than that. I'm totally OK with carrying a subpar player provided it doesn't prevent me from finishing the dungeon or whatever. I'm not OK with carrying bots, but that's another matter.
If we're wiping, on the other hand, I'm going to do something about it, be it offer advice or remove them, depending on the circumstances.
Either way, bad players get inspected.
True if you are getting wiped over and over it is important to find the reason. I agree with you on that!
I must admit it did happen to me one time and I was happy that someone did offer advice or help! Thouh there is one time a group I was in a group and the whole time 2 people were arguing back and forth disagreeing with eachother and blaming eachother cause each one thinks he is right and the other is causing the wipe. Now that was an annoying run for me and I could not wait till it was over so I can leave the group.
never actually given a toss about my own gear,nevermind anyone else's..i dont play online games for gear...i play em for fun.i guess thats why i got 12 mmo's in my system,if i went for gear that would go down to 2 max.
I have to admit, I do check other players regularly. I call it R & D. It is often a good way to see gear that you haven't attained or are completely unaware of. Also, if players are underperforming or over performing, I like to know why.
Often, I will see items such as Talismans/Rep items etc that I haven't seen before and it will lead me on a path of discovery to see how I can get those items.
How gear is equipped and how it is used can often tell me a lot about the player and their preferred playing style.
Cheers
I inspect people from time to time. Not to judge them or anything but it helps me learning about new items/enchants I didn't know of before.
Of course, specially if the gear is HOT.... Learn the name of the gear, then wiki how to get it. Also look at enchants and get an idea of builds.
Why does this just shout "I just want My loot" - I will use you guys to get it.
This easy content you refer too could be 'quite fucking hard' for some new people?
empathy, use it. Its ok until shit goes downhill then you have blame someone right?
Bad players or "baddies" I hear the wow people call it now.. there's no such thing as a bad player just Inexperienced or undergeared relevant to different people.
I'm sorry if this is a dated way of thinking in today's standards but what happened to the values of "Fun" "Community" and "Helping"?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
There are definitely bad players...
There are definitely bad, bad, just absolutely terrible players. In every mmorpg I've played, I've encountered plenty of just terrible players. They are there. They exist. They can and sometimes will make your group gimp as fuck. I very rarely ever say anything, but I do notice when someone sucks as a player.
So, here's the thing. An intelligent person's method of problem-solving, especially when it comes to something they already know quite a lot about already, typically begins with identifying variables. Your party members are variables. Their gear, their class, and their talents are also variables. When a problem arises, you investigate, you find the unfavorable variable, and you correct it. Whether this means booting someone from the group, or suggesting to them that maybe using melee weapons exclusively isn't the best play style for a hunter, you're solving the problem based on what you see happening. So, yes, when things are going bad and they very well should not be, I find the source of the issue. No need to try to villainize me for that.
And yes, some players are bad. Some players are terrible. Some of my best friends are awful, awful gamers, who simply cannot be taught, and don't really care to be. And that's fine! They aren't lesser human beings for it, and we're still friends. Some of my other friends have surprised me after doing a little research, cleaning up their playstyle and changing up their talents or gear a bit for the better.
I mean, are you suggesting that when you are in a group, and you can't finish the dungeon you're doing, you continue slamming your head against the same brick wall for hours until the servers shut down? I get the feeling you didn't even read my post - I'm completely fine with helping a player out with tips and advice when they need it, and you're telling me not to ruin their "fun." Regardless, some people cannot be helped, and are dead-set in their ways. At that point, their "fun" is ruining my fun, and they get the boot.
I've only ever kicked maybe five people out of a group in my entire time playing MMORPGs. It is an absolute last resort, and I'll try my damnedest to help pull the group together and make it a positive experience in which people learned something every single time. But if I want to know why Jackowacko is doing 500 DPS when the standard for his class is 10,000, a quick gear check will probably tell me quite a bit about exactly how to approach solving the issue.
Yeh, I usually do look at guildies/friends gear to see what combinations work for them or even a good opponent I face and try to see what they have going. Hell I inspect random people, even noobs for the sake of doing it. Call it curiosity if you will but it always interests me.
Only time another person's gear affects me is in PUGs. Even then, I don't have to look. It's easy to see when the tank is taking much more damage than normal. The reason is almost always gear.
Almost always. Say you check his gear and it looks good, then what? You can rule that out, and then look for the other things that might be wrong. Is he in Defensive stance? What? No? He's in Berserker Stance? Well, that could be an issue. Maybe he's using Defensive Stance and wearing all the right gear, but his spec isn't even built toward tanking. That's another possibility. Maybe he just forgot to switch specs or gear sets before starting pulls. Hey, it happens.
But even then, there are some situations where a tank will need to do a particular thing to take less damage, like move away while the mob is standing there channeling a melee attack that doesn't follow him, or use cooldowns at the right times to reduce heavy-damage periods. These are all player knowledge and skill, and if everything else checks out, you know the problem is with the player if this hypothetical tank is still getting whooped. There's a lot more to tanking than gear.
Regardless, a quick inspect is the best way to begin troubleshooting when things aren't going as they should. It's the first thing you should look at.
oh GOD don't ask any of the world of warcraft players this because as one they even had mods that just autochecked the score to see if people would do better in dungeons or not and began booting people from groups, it got so bad that blizz had to break the mods for a time.
I have checked out other players gear once or twice when I really liked the look of it in EQ2 to check where I could get the same for my fashion slot.
Otherwise I sometimes done it while waiting for a player to the group, but that is more out of boredom than anything else. I must say that I was surprised how crappy gear many tanks wore though. Never kicked anyone for crappy gear though, it is not what you have but what you do with it that matters (even though several of those tanks indeed got kicked but because incompetence instead, not all though).
very true. i joined once a guild in one mmo dont wanna mention name cause otherwise its been said too much here.. =p
well anyway my gear was shit as hell and i started raiding dungeons with them and was healing better than any of those nicely geared healers and become main healer in no time , its not about gear so much its about what you do and how.
but i dont want to know what whos having and etc i think gearscoring players is stupid idea.
I hate the function to be able to see another players gear or stats, its imo completely retarded. L2 style, if the player wishes to they can link the items or you can look at their character and see what gear it has on if you recognize it.
What kind of enchantments or such a player have on their gear and such should imo be secret, let others figure out alone... Why should everything be so damn simple these days, why should there be functions to do everything fast and easy. I wish there was less teleportfunctions and whisper functions in games then maybe some of the exploration and mysteries would come back a bit.
ah wow disease, troubleshooting? Checking out people to make sure they have an understanding equal to yours? what happens when you see something you don't like? Yhey are not going to suddenly change there and then. What happens when someone better than you inspects you and makes comment on something they dont like? usually it is rudeness, lack of respect, arguements, threats to leave pugs etc etc.
Inspecting should be for fun or to see how you personally can improve you have no business telling others how to play a game. Hardcore raiding is a little different, that's competitive gaming and should be treated more professionally with raid leaders being more proactive, but even then good raid leaders often trust their players to work out best practice amongst themeselves through discussions, rather than 'inspecting people'
This is where a lot of the elitism rubbish came from unfortunately, lack of respect and trust and people too free with their critisisms (justified or not) Sometimes it is ok to play with people that are just not as good as you and play less than perfect, you don't need a flawless run/raid/pug to have fun.
im not having a go at your post personally, its more the 'perfect performance culture in wow, it went way to far to the point where even casual pug play was afffected by this. more fun less seriousness and need to rush through content perfectly.
edit, example inspecting peoples gems and enchants, you often heard people slagging off other peoples builds, when actually it only represented a fraction of their performance, its irrelevant and should be left for people to explore and have fun. its ok for them not to have an optimal setup in a pug.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Well, the real reason for it is lazyness of the devs.
If you could see all the gear a player is wearing and all of it have unique skins then there is no reasons for this feature.
Like 2 warriors starring at eachother before deciding if they should attack or not, they can see what the other guy(or gal) is wearing. In MMOs far too much stuff share the same skin and you can´t see stuff like rings, earrings neclaces in most games.
I think it partly is because lazyness since there isn´t any technical reason for it anymore (there was in the 90s) and partly it is because we would see how silly your tough male barbarian looks with all his silly jewelry on.
So yeah, in a game you can recognize the gear it is something we don´t need. And we certainly shouldn´t see buffs or specific spells cast on the player or his gear.
But with the info we can see by looking on a current MMO avatar the function makes sense.
in WOW it was used to inspect enchants,gemming etc. OMG you ar wearing stamina gems instead of expertise gems etc etc. Think you are bang on, gear should be seen and not inspected
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Excellent question! I remember when Burning Crusade had just come out; I was playing one of the shiny new Paladins we Horde players hadn't had access to before. I was in a guild at the time, and had gotten my paladin up to about level 30 or so. Someone in my guild asked, "What's the best spec for levelling a paladin?"
I replied with, "Retribution is the best." I was specced Retribution, and I found it to be fairly easy to level up with.
After that, another person in the guild piped up. He was a druid player, and he said "Actually Retribution will leave you with a lot of downtime and if you have to fight more than one thing at a time you might be in trouble. You have to kill things one by one, and drink to recover mana very often. If you were to use a Protection spec, you could pull a bunch of things, kill them all at once, and never have to drink."
Now, I could have argued with him, and said that no, Retribution was a better spec, but I said "Huh, really? Well, maybe I'll try that myself, then." Both of us ended up doing so, and at that time, the druid was right; Protection was a far superior spec for levelling. It's not really true anymore, but that's not the point. The point was that I had stated my opinion, received a counter-opinion, and then after putting it to the test, changed my outlook. Years later that druid player, who I still talk to, told me that that exact exchange was when he realized I was "good people," and a "good player." I was doin' it rong, and I wasn't too prideful to take what someone else said into consideration. In the end, we were all better off.
And that's the real difference: a good player doesn't always do the optimal thing, a good player always seeks the optimal thing.
That's why I'm totally fine with offering advice to people when they clearly need it. I've needed it before, too, and I'm glad someone corrected me. What people do with others' suggestions is up to them in the end, sure, but I still think it's a disservice to your fellow gamer not to point it out to them when they're doing something incorrectly or suboptimally.
Read just the bolded part for the tl;dr version.
Remember some players are not as good and are not seeking to be optimal, but actually they are nice people who are good fun to play with, but need to be compensated for by better players. (and im saying this as somenoe who was obsessed with reaching perfect results at all times)
I agree however giving and accepting advice is a great thing when done in the right spirit and context and you give a good example. An anti-example as it were (and im sure you have seen this as well) is where you are in a pug raid and after just 1 wipe on the boss you see someone type in chat, "omg the tank doesnt even have shoulder enchants" etc. Actually the issue is more likely to be lack of experience with the boss mechanics, and the answer is more discussion on tactics and more retries and reorganising the raid to work around player strengths and weaknesses. Offen however in PUGS you got no patience or empathy, open critisism, bullying and kicking of players, and Gear checking was often amunition for this behaviour.
As with real life, you have to judge wether someone would be offended if you give advice, and never be critical when you do. If you think the person would be offended then you have no business giving advice, unless you have a professional obligation and relationship with the person.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D