The second I finish my Centurion/Champion set of gear, I'll be collecting Battlemaster bags (if I can, even if I can't open them) and even after getting to Valor Rank 60, I'll probably keep them unopened, filling up my whole bank vault with them if I need to.
Simple reason: this game will die if they don't change BM drop rates. Right now, it is absolute insanity. They will fix the drop rates and when they do, I'll have a full BM set ready to go (knock on wood).
To the broader point: PvP can't be ignored. It's why WoW became The Game and EQ2 became... whatever it became, who even cares at this point. These games were released within a month of each other and everyone picked WoW by a nose simply because it had PvP on release, even if it was broken and completely unsupported. Sony knew it screwed up and scrambled to put PvP in within months, but the damage had already been done.
PvP is vital to a successful game, because in every PvEers heart is the drive to be better than other players, even if it is just being better at slapping around AI monsters than someone else. Without PvP being possible in a game, the whole game just loses its spirit. Even LOTRO recognized this, hence Monster Play.
The second I finish my Centurion/Champion set of gear, I'll be collecting Battlemaster bags (if I can, even if I can't open them) and even after getting to Valor Rank 60, I'll probably keep them unopened, filling up my whole bank vault with them if I need to.
Simple reason: this game will die if they don't change BM drop rates. Right now, it is absolute insanity. They will fix the drop rates and when they do, I'll have a full BM set ready to go (knock on wood).
To the broader point: PvP can't be ignored. It's why WoW became The Game and EQ2 became... whatever it became, who even cares at this point. These games were released within a month of each other and everyone picked WoW by a nose simply because it had PvP on release, even if it was broken and completely unsupported. Sony knew it screwed up and scrambled to put PvP in within months, but the damage had already been done.
PvP is vital to a successful game, because in every PvEers heart is the drive to be better than other players, even if it is just being better at slapping around AI monsters than someone else. Without PvP being possible in a game, the whole game just loses its spirit. Even LOTRO recognized this, hence Monster Play.
You can only have one Battlemaster bag at a time, meaning you cant stockpile them for when you hit 60. The drop rate is fairly decent, my battlemaster friend gets enough tokens for 1-2 pieces a week. The upgrade over champion isnt that big. A fully decked out battlemaster only has 2% more expertise than a champion. And its very quick and easy to get fully decked out in champion.
Also EQ2 didnt scramble to get PvP. It was released during Kingdom of Sky, which was the second expansion (2 years later). Most attribute EQ2s failure to the fact that it was group oriented and fairly harsh on new players with death penalties etc, while WoW was the easymode casual friendly game with low computer requirements. Hell, most computers these days - 7 years later - can barely run EQ2 at max settings.
glad Idont PvP. PvP just makes the game stale. WoW's focus was PvE, then PvP. and ever since its a stupid balancing act. I hope swtor doesn't follow this and just sticks to PvE, if you want to PvP, go play WoW or LoL
Hey, don't blame us for wanting to pvp in a game that shipped with pvp.
Everyone who has posted on this forum has a valid point, even if you don't agree with it. I admit that I was feeling the level 50 blues. However, I took down the first operation boss with my guild the other night. This gave me the lust for this game that I first had. At this point I am happy with leveling ALT's and oing trhought heir story,w hile doing end game content and PVP. So far there hasn't been an end game that turns into dungeon raiding, PVP, grind etc. My only issue is that it took me 5 weeks to get to level 50. I miss the days where it took you 3-6 months to get to end game.
1. BW never said this was gonna be a pvp centric game. It was, is, and always will be a pve game that's about the story. BW stated that from the first announcment till now. It was stated there would be pvp in the game, but that it was not the main focus.
2. Those that bitch about the pvp sucking so bad it could get a bowling ball thru a garden hose obviously NEVER played or just plain do not remember WoW's pvp when it first started. 3 zones that you had to get thru to the portal, with no flight path and unless you were high lvl, possible death all the way there. Not to mention the hour or more Q's to get in and the random kicks from the servers. And that was just the pvp side of things, pve was not much better with only a few raids and no hardmode/heroic anything and the same type of server problems with a Q just to play.
3. STOP comparing this game, barely 1 month old to games that have had YEARS to iron out all the bugs and get them to what they are today. I still play WoW once in a while and yes it is a lot more polished than TOR, and it is also 7 years older and therfore had the time to get it right.
All in all in my mind TOR has had the best launch features and smoothest launch I have ever been in. I for one have already subbed for 6 months and I see this game going no where but up. WoW had it's share of dropped subs when it started and now it's still #1 in the sub category. I only hope the TOR does not go the WoW route and dumb the entire game down just to get people in.
So far have yet to hit 50, highest is 29, and I'm running several alts at the same time. 2 Servers, one Empire the other Republic. Been playing almost daily since early access started, so yea I like the story and will take my time and not rush endgame. By the time I'm ready for endgame they might have introduced a new planet or 2 like they said the want to do every so often. As stated, I'm in no rush.
The game has in the end been rushed by EA - Who probably thought Story would be enough.
Crafting and pvp is omg bad, and it is scary that the guys from Mythic didn't even have the skill to copy the game they came from, for just a descent pvp system......
First, how can you blame EA? This game was delayed from its original projected launch of Spring 2011, while costing EA over $100 million to make. I don't think it's wrong of a publisher to set a hard date when they've thrown that much cash at the development. And speaking of the delay, anyone who played early beta over a year ago could tell you that the game was just bad. It was obvious at that point that Bioware put next to no development time into actual gameplay. Great, every quest in the game has a movie and voices, too bad the gaming part is terrible.
Second, let's be honest about Mythic. Mythic officially died when MJ was canned (unofficially it was dead the minute EA bought it) and Bioware quickly stuck WAR into maintenance mode to be mostly forgotten about except to test DLC in the MMO format, leading to the horrendous ratpack. Also Mythic's staff barely survived several rounds of EA's blanket layoffs. So to sit there and blame any of SWTOR's problems on the 5 former Mythic employees that they absorbed from the remaining 10 is laughable (leaving 3 devs for DAoC/Ultima/WAR, Paul Barnett forgotten in a cubicle making Ultima Facebook Edition, and Carry eating donuts and playing WoW).
This game is just typical Bioware focusing completely on storytelling and ignoring gameplay. They should find another medium that would be both more condusive to their stories and cheaper to produce. But then people would realize that most of their stories are mediocre at best.
My biggest criticism of the game is that the stories are far more interesting on 1 faction over the other. Imperial stories are extremely well done, complex at times and mostly compelling the entire way through
Republic have a few compelling stories, but they're definitely lacking on classes like the Trooper.
This game is a very well developed and fleshed out MMORPG in every sense that term entails. The planets are all seamless, there is no zoning except into your space ship, and out of it. Most of the "instancing" you ever experience is just a matter of phasing into it such as dungeons and such. No loading screen what so ever. You ONLY ever see that when going to your ship, or using instant travel/equivilant to hearth stone. You progress through the game by doing missions as well as your class missions, like any other MMO, except they're fully dialogued and voiced over. And for the first time in my extensive experience with this genre, they feel IMPORTANT. Like you're actually making a difference in this world, story wise. Anyone who says this isn't a MMO, and is a lobby game is a complete and total idiot and nobody should listen to them as they don't know at all what they're talking about. There isn't a lobby in this game unless you count the VIP lounge which doesn't even require zoning to get to, or the Imperial Fleet I guess, but you cannot access much of the game through either of those, you have to go out and be a part of it like any MMO.
I'm not enjoying either endgame because it's the same crap I can do in every other themepark MMO since WoW. I'm tired of the raid or die or pvp or die mentality of endgame mechanics. I want mechanics the likes of FFXI's dynamis, gardening, mission storylines for each nation, deep crafting, fishing, overarching storyline/campaign encompassing the whole game, low level raids like Garrison, Expeditionary Force. As well as a plethora of other activities I can't remember at the moment because there are so many.
I want housing, guild housing/perks, collections, real achievements for me to strive for, not this quasi encyclopedic codex that isn't really rewarding, more class story, more quest variation like bombing runs from vehicles, escorts, king of the hill moments.
I want PVP in open world areas to matter, I want each valor level or every other valor level to offer me some sort of incentive or reward, I want varying sets of armor to choose from so I don't look like everyone else in my class, I want to dye my armor or at least get it to match, I want to log in and take a jog around my favorite world and discover exotic locations I had never seen before. I want to go wandering off into the sands of tattooine's desert without dying of exhaustion, I want....
I'll stop there. Granted, I realize this is launch and many things will be added over time, but the current game itself....it's not keeping me around long enough for these things to get implemented. A good mmorpg launches with enough content and addictive qualities that I last long enough for the game to add the above. SWTOR has not launched with these qualities and it's a shame.
Wow...sorry for the rant...but all these ideas just kept coming into my head as I thought about what would keep me playing the game and enjoying it now that I've "beat" the game already.
I'm not enjoying either endgame because it's the same crap I can do in every other themepark MMO since WoW. I'm tired of the raid or die or pvp or die mentality of endgame mechanics. I want mechanics the likes of FFXI's dynamis, gardening, mission storylines for each nation, deep crafting, fishing, overarching storyline/campaign encompassing the whole game, low level raids like Garrison, Expeditionary Force. As well as a plethora of other activities I can't remember at the moment because there are so many.
I want housing, guild housing/perks, collections, real achievements for me to strive for, not this quasi encyclopedic codex that isn't really rewarding, more class story, more quest variation like bombing runs from vehicles, escorts, king of the hill moments.
I want PVP in open world areas to matter, I want each valor level or every other valor level to offer me some sort of incentive or reward, I want varying sets of armor to choose from so I don't look like everyone else in my class, I want to dye my armor or at least get it to match, I want to log in and take a jog around my favorite world and discover exotic locations I had never seen before. I want to go wandering off into the sands of tattooine's desert without dying of exhaustion, I want....
I'll stop there. Granted, I realize this is launch and many things will be added over time, but the current game itself....it's not keeping me around long enough for these things to get implemented. A good mmorpg launches with enough content and addictive qualities that I last long enough for the game to add the above. SWTOR has not launched with these qualities and it's a shame.
Wow...sorry for the rant...but all these ideas just kept coming into my head as I thought about what would keep me playing the game and enjoying it now that I've "beat" the game already.
Well said
EA - give this guy a job. Listen to him and your game can only get better.
Everyone who has posted on this forum has a valid point, even if you don't agree with it. I admit that I was feeling the level 50 blues. However, I took down the first operation boss with my guild the other night. This gave me the lust for this game that I first had. At this point I am happy with leveling ALT's and oing trhought heir story,w hile doing end game content and PVP. So far there hasn't been an end game that turns into dungeon raiding, PVP, grind etc. My only issue is that it took me 5 weeks to get to level 50. I miss the days where it took you 3-6 months to get to end game.
How can everyone have a 'valid point'? That makes no logical sense. If two people have opposite opinions, they both can't be valid.
I'm not enjoying either endgame because it's the same crap I can do in every other themepark MMO since WoW. I'm tired of the raid or die or pvp or die mentality of endgame mechanics. I want mechanics the likes of FFXI's dynamis, gardening, mission storylines for each nation, deep crafting, fishing, overarching storyline/campaign encompassing the whole game, low level raids like Garrison, Expeditionary Force. As well as a plethora of other activities I can't remember at the moment because there are so many.
I want housing, guild housing/perks, collections, real achievements for me to strive for, not this quasi encyclopedic codex that isn't really rewarding, more class story, more quest variation like bombing runs from vehicles, escorts, king of the hill moments.
I want PVP in open world areas to matter, I want each valor level or every other valor level to offer me some sort of incentive or reward, I want varying sets of armor to choose from so I don't look like everyone else in my class, I want to dye my armor or at least get it to match, I want to log in and take a jog around my favorite world and discover exotic locations I had never seen before. I want to go wandering off into the sands of tattooine's desert without dying of exhaustion, I want....
I'll stop there. Granted, I realize this is launch and many things will be added over time, but the current game itself....it's not keeping me around long enough for these things to get implemented. A good mmorpg launches with enough content and addictive qualities that I last long enough for the game to add the above. SWTOR has not launched with these qualities and it's a shame.
Wow...sorry for the rant...but all these ideas just kept coming into my head as I thought about what would keep me playing the game and enjoying it now that I've "beat" the game already.
Hear, hear.
Well said, you managed to touch just about every gripe and desire I have in regards to SWTOR, apart from scrapping those unimmersive fleets / shopping malls that is.
That said, I am still nowhere close to max level and am only putting about 4 hours a week into the game (if that...).
To be certain, the game isn't as immersive as I would like it to be. If the story is about growing tensions between the empire and the republic there should be enough instances where we encounter one another in game to make me dislike them.
The story is incredible, but maybe too heavily scripted. I want my own choices to matter more so that the story becomes MY story at the end.
These are small gripes and things that should resolve themselves in time I'd wager.
My pervasive feeling about all this is that we are still looking at a product that lacks its' true form. I am going to wait for their next 5 content updates to see if the games starts moving in the right directions.
For my money, It still has many of the hallmarks of the game I was looking for...
Sci-Fi : AO is hard on the eyes now and STO is just yucky. Not crazy about it being Star Wars though and wish it had been done in the Mass Effect universe instead. Star Wars creates 30 years of formed expectations that no one can effectively live up to.
MMO where things can be accomplished with small groups: My spouse and some RL friends can get together in game and kill stuff... Good times.
Story.
That said...
It can certainly stand improvement though if for no other reason than do to the fact that MMO's will have to become dynamic as both sandboxes and themparks in the coming years to remain competitive.
Dynamic worlds, story, and gameplay is what was touted and from a company that can deliver on the promise. Bioware has created a history of offering the options to build the character you wanted while following the story path you wished to (story wasn't linear) which created the spectre of "what if ?" that we love.
They didn't do it for this game and I think that's what has let alot of people down in truth.
They still can though and that's the hope I'm holding out.
To address the original question about how we feel about progressing pvp or pve through the seeming grind, I am desperate for them to add more warzones--I actually like them, but to get to 65 valor playing only 3 is insane, especially if you have more than one toon. We need some variety. I hear they will be adding at least one more warzone, they need to add at least five more warzones.
I am doing the majority of my progression through pvp and class quests because I'm not a fan of having to run back and forth on the huge planets with no really good transportation system (seriously, Scotty, beam me up to my ship already). Warzones get you cash, exp, levels, and gear.
i don't wanna "help them" cause they made an evil game, themepark user-friendly accessible bullshit without the smallest trace of challenge for the player, but they should just conjure up a great RvR political system, a big senate, discussions and battles and a little tool for the player to write their own content.
Do this and hey presto the game beats any WoW of any multiversus.
Bam. It took me 30 seconds to write the secret to MMO success. How hard was it?
Comments
The second I finish my Centurion/Champion set of gear, I'll be collecting Battlemaster bags (if I can, even if I can't open them) and even after getting to Valor Rank 60, I'll probably keep them unopened, filling up my whole bank vault with them if I need to.
Simple reason: this game will die if they don't change BM drop rates. Right now, it is absolute insanity. They will fix the drop rates and when they do, I'll have a full BM set ready to go (knock on wood).
To the broader point: PvP can't be ignored. It's why WoW became The Game and EQ2 became... whatever it became, who even cares at this point. These games were released within a month of each other and everyone picked WoW by a nose simply because it had PvP on release, even if it was broken and completely unsupported. Sony knew it screwed up and scrambled to put PvP in within months, but the damage had already been done.
PvP is vital to a successful game, because in every PvEers heart is the drive to be better than other players, even if it is just being better at slapping around AI monsters than someone else. Without PvP being possible in a game, the whole game just loses its spirit. Even LOTRO recognized this, hence Monster Play.
You can only have one Battlemaster bag at a time, meaning you cant stockpile them for when you hit 60. The drop rate is fairly decent, my battlemaster friend gets enough tokens for 1-2 pieces a week. The upgrade over champion isnt that big. A fully decked out battlemaster only has 2% more expertise than a champion. And its very quick and easy to get fully decked out in champion.
Also EQ2 didnt scramble to get PvP. It was released during Kingdom of Sky, which was the second expansion (2 years later). Most attribute EQ2s failure to the fact that it was group oriented and fairly harsh on new players with death penalties etc, while WoW was the easymode casual friendly game with low computer requirements. Hell, most computers these days - 7 years later - can barely run EQ2 at max settings.
Hey, don't blame us for wanting to pvp in a game that shipped with pvp.
Everyone who has posted on this forum has a valid point, even if you don't agree with it. I admit that I was feeling the level 50 blues. However, I took down the first operation boss with my guild the other night. This gave me the lust for this game that I first had. At this point I am happy with leveling ALT's and oing trhought heir story,w hile doing end game content and PVP. So far there hasn't been an end game that turns into dungeon raiding, PVP, grind etc. My only issue is that it took me 5 weeks to get to level 50. I miss the days where it took you 3-6 months to get to end game.
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1. BW never said this was gonna be a pvp centric game. It was, is, and always will be a pve game that's about the story. BW stated that from the first announcment till now. It was stated there would be pvp in the game, but that it was not the main focus.
2. Those that bitch about the pvp sucking so bad it could get a bowling ball thru a garden hose obviously NEVER played or just plain do not remember WoW's pvp when it first started. 3 zones that you had to get thru to the portal, with no flight path and unless you were high lvl, possible death all the way there. Not to mention the hour or more Q's to get in and the random kicks from the servers. And that was just the pvp side of things, pve was not much better with only a few raids and no hardmode/heroic anything and the same type of server problems with a Q just to play.
3. STOP comparing this game, barely 1 month old to games that have had YEARS to iron out all the bugs and get them to what they are today. I still play WoW once in a while and yes it is a lot more polished than TOR, and it is also 7 years older and therfore had the time to get it right.
All in all in my mind TOR has had the best launch features and smoothest launch I have ever been in. I for one have already subbed for 6 months and I see this game going no where but up. WoW had it's share of dropped subs when it started and now it's still #1 in the sub category. I only hope the TOR does not go the WoW route and dumb the entire game down just to get people in.
So far have yet to hit 50, highest is 29, and I'm running several alts at the same time. 2 Servers, one Empire the other Republic. Been playing almost daily since early access started, so yea I like the story and will take my time and not rush endgame. By the time I'm ready for endgame they might have introduced a new planet or 2 like they said the want to do every so often. As stated, I'm in no rush.
First, how can you blame EA? This game was delayed from its original projected launch of Spring 2011, while costing EA over $100 million to make. I don't think it's wrong of a publisher to set a hard date when they've thrown that much cash at the development. And speaking of the delay, anyone who played early beta over a year ago could tell you that the game was just bad. It was obvious at that point that Bioware put next to no development time into actual gameplay. Great, every quest in the game has a movie and voices, too bad the gaming part is terrible.
Second, let's be honest about Mythic. Mythic officially died when MJ was canned (unofficially it was dead the minute EA bought it) and Bioware quickly stuck WAR into maintenance mode to be mostly forgotten about except to test DLC in the MMO format, leading to the horrendous ratpack. Also Mythic's staff barely survived several rounds of EA's blanket layoffs. So to sit there and blame any of SWTOR's problems on the 5 former Mythic employees that they absorbed from the remaining 10 is laughable (leaving 3 devs for DAoC/Ultima/WAR, Paul Barnett forgotten in a cubicle making Ultima Facebook Edition, and Carry eating donuts and playing WoW).
This game is just typical Bioware focusing completely on storytelling and ignoring gameplay. They should find another medium that would be both more condusive to their stories and cheaper to produce. But then people would realize that most of their stories are mediocre at best.
How is SW:TOR not a MMO??? Seriously? What is a MMO to some of you people?
Open persistant gaming worlds? Yes.
Fully functioning solo, group, raid content intergrated into an open persistent gaming world? Yes...
Phasing/Instancing? Hardly at all and only ever in the early planets if the population cap exceeds 200+ in a small area.
Lobbys? None.
I could go on; all in all this is probably the biggest MMO I've seen in a long time.
My biggest criticism of the game is that the stories are far more interesting on 1 faction over the other. Imperial stories are extremely well done, complex at times and mostly compelling the entire way through
Republic have a few compelling stories, but they're definitely lacking on classes like the Trooper.
This game is a very well developed and fleshed out MMORPG in every sense that term entails. The planets are all seamless, there is no zoning except into your space ship, and out of it. Most of the "instancing" you ever experience is just a matter of phasing into it such as dungeons and such. No loading screen what so ever. You ONLY ever see that when going to your ship, or using instant travel/equivilant to hearth stone. You progress through the game by doing missions as well as your class missions, like any other MMO, except they're fully dialogued and voiced over. And for the first time in my extensive experience with this genre, they feel IMPORTANT. Like you're actually making a difference in this world, story wise. Anyone who says this isn't a MMO, and is a lobby game is a complete and total idiot and nobody should listen to them as they don't know at all what they're talking about. There isn't a lobby in this game unless you count the VIP lounge which doesn't even require zoning to get to, or the Imperial Fleet I guess, but you cannot access much of the game through either of those, you have to go out and be a part of it like any MMO.
EA - give this guy a job
How can everyone have a 'valid point'? That makes no logical sense. If two people have opposite opinions, they both can't be valid.
Hear, hear.
Well said, you managed to touch just about every gripe and desire I have in regards to SWTOR, apart from scrapping those unimmersive fleets / shopping malls that is.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I'm getting my money's worth so far...
That said, I am still nowhere close to max level and am only putting about 4 hours a week into the game (if that...).
To be certain, the game isn't as immersive as I would like it to be. If the story is about growing tensions between the empire and the republic there should be enough instances where we encounter one another in game to make me dislike them.
The story is incredible, but maybe too heavily scripted. I want my own choices to matter more so that the story becomes MY story at the end.
These are small gripes and things that should resolve themselves in time I'd wager.
My pervasive feeling about all this is that we are still looking at a product that lacks its' true form. I am going to wait for their next 5 content updates to see if the games starts moving in the right directions.
For my money, It still has many of the hallmarks of the game I was looking for...
Sci-Fi : AO is hard on the eyes now and STO is just yucky. Not crazy about it being Star Wars though and wish it had been done in the Mass Effect universe instead. Star Wars creates 30 years of formed expectations that no one can effectively live up to.
MMO where things can be accomplished with small groups: My spouse and some RL friends can get together in game and kill stuff... Good times.
Story.
That said...
It can certainly stand improvement though if for no other reason than do to the fact that MMO's will have to become dynamic as both sandboxes and themparks in the coming years to remain competitive.
Dynamic worlds, story, and gameplay is what was touted and from a company that can deliver on the promise. Bioware has created a history of offering the options to build the character you wanted while following the story path you wished to (story wasn't linear) which created the spectre of "what if ?" that we love.
They didn't do it for this game and I think that's what has let alot of people down in truth.
They still can though and that's the hope I'm holding out.
Brilliant article. It just sums up all my feelings.
To address the original question about how we feel about progressing pvp or pve through the seeming grind, I am desperate for them to add more warzones--I actually like them, but to get to 65 valor playing only 3 is insane, especially if you have more than one toon. We need some variety. I hear they will be adding at least one more warzone, they need to add at least five more warzones.
I am doing the majority of my progression through pvp and class quests because I'm not a fan of having to run back and forth on the huge planets with no really good transportation system (seriously, Scotty, beam me up to my ship already). Warzones get you cash, exp, levels, and gear.
those are good ideas
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
You killed your pvp experiance by starting at 50, nuff said.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"