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Carter's View on the Iraq War
Kiamde
Member CommonPosts: 5,820
BIRMINGHAM, England Former President Jimmy Carter said Saturday the detention of terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay Naval base was an embarrassment and had given extremists an excuse to attack the United States.Carter also criticized the U.S.-led war in Iraq as "unnecessary and unjust."
"I think what's going on in Guantanamo Bay and other places is a disgrace to the U.S.A.," he told a news conference at the Baptist World Alliance's centenary conference in Birmingham, England. "I wouldn't say it's the cause of terrorism, but it has given impetus and excuses to potential terrorists to lash out at our country and justify their despicable acts."
Carter said, however, that terrorist acts could not be justified, and that while Guantanamo "may be an aggravating factor ... it's not the basis of terrorism."
Critics of President Bush's administration have long accused the U.S. government of unjustly detaining terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base on the southeastern tip of Cuba. Hundreds of men have been held indefinitely at the prison, without charge or access to lawyers.
"What has happened at Guantanamo Bay ... does not represent the will of the American people," Carter said. "I'm embarrassed about it, I think its wrong. I think it does give terrorists an unwarranted excuse to use the despicable means to hurt innocent people."
Carter, who won the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize, has been an outspoken critic of the Iraq war.
"I thought then, and I think now, that the invasion of Iraq was unnecessary and unjust. And I think the premises on which it was launched were false," he said Saturday.
The Baptist World Alliance, comprising more than 200 Baptist unions around the world, was formed in London in 1905. The headquarters of the alliance, which meets in a different location every five years, moved to the United States in 1947.
An estimated 12,700 delegates gathered in the city of Birmingham in central England for the conference. Carter, a Sunday school teacher in his hometown of Plains, Ga., was due to lead a Bible study lesson during the conference.
He praised British police and intelligence services for the swift arrests in connection with the July 21 failed bombing attempts on London's transit system.
"I'm very proud to be in a nation that stands so stalwart against terrorism with us," he said. "The people of my country have united our hearts and sympathy for the tragedy that you have suffered from terrorism."
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
Comments
why does over half the nation choose to ignore what's described in that article?
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-Anarchyart
All you friggin suburban white kid wannabe poobutts that are in love with G-Unit are sad and pathetic. Find your own identity
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
Ack double postage
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
see? all the injustice, shrugged off with a cheap joke.
open your eyes.
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-Anarchyart
All you friggin suburban white kid wannabe poobutts that are in love with G-Unit are sad and pathetic. Find your own identity
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
Pointing out someone elses bad behavior doesnt justify your own. There are always worse examples in the world, I'm sure the 9/11 terriorsts could say "Well, we only killed 2,000, while hitler killed over 4 million, therefore, we're not that bad". Does that make it right or any less terrible? No.
We are America, we advertise ourselves as better, and should act that way.
Pointing out someone elses bad behavior doesnt justify your own. There are always worse examples in the world, I'm sure the 9/11 terriorsts could say "Well, we only killed 2,000, while hitler killed over 4 million, therefore, we're not that bad". Does that make it right or any less terrible? No.
We are America, we advertise ourselves as better, and should act that way.
I agree... adopting a China style approach to Justice, Evidence, Trails and Detention just because it seems expedient does not help.
I believe if you present yourself as being above the law you invite acts outside the law. If you demonstrate your adherence to democracy, freedom and the rule of law in the face of all threats then you are truly practicing what you preach.
Detaining people for years without trial is just not what the USA stands for and Im surprised anyone would defend it..
Defl is precisely correct, no matter how you feel... two wrongs dont make a right!
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
This post is mainly for arvainis:
"There are far greater evil deeds in our world then keeping some terrorists in a camp." -arvainis
This is what separates people like arvainis from people like me.
We in the United States live in a society that is law-bound to protect those who are innocent. Ignorant people like arvainis do not recognize that the people incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere are mostly innocent. In your haste to protect yourself and your society, you trample upon the rights of others with different cultures and racial identities.
From such statements as the above, its obvious that you don't even consider the possibility that there are many who have been wrongly imprisoned. I can't that believe you consider everyone in Guantamo Bay "terrorists in a camp". It's wrong to think of them like that. Some of the people who are there are good people with decent upbringings.
As for there being worse things in our world, I agree. There are more problems in our world, like censorship and the aftermath of Tienamen Square in China, starvation and AIDS in Africa and worldwide poverty. You're right.
But don't call the vast number of innocent people in Guantanamo Bay "terrorists". Don't incriminate the innocent; don't be prejudiced against the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay who are locked up simply for having funny last names and different skin colors.
www.draftgore.com
Gore '08
The worst part is until you put them on trial its all speculation!
If someone cam on here and posted that 100 or more people had been detained for over 3 years without trial and treated in conditions worse than convicted muderers on death row and subjected to forms of abuse bordering on torture, with no prospect of going to trial for anything. We would all say "O DAMN those Chinese or North Koreans for having such a brutal system in their country"
But we arnt talking about China or NK are we ?
Thats what is so hard to believe and accept!
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
The worst part is until you put them on trial its all speculation!
If someone cam on here and posted that 100 or more people had been detained for over 3 years without trial and treated in conditions worse than convicted muderers on death row and subjected to forms of abuse bordering on torture, with no prospect of going to trial for anything. We would all say "O DAMN those Chinese or North Koreans for having such a brutal system in their country"
But we arnt talking about China or NK are we ?
Thats what is so hard to believe and accept!
I hate to sound snobbish, but you _are_ in Austrailia, where the biggest form of news occurs when your bicycle team gets run down by a car. It is simply a matter of perspective, which you have (which is designated by your location alone).
You do have valid points, but not being an American and simply dismissing our country as wrong is not correct or the proper thing to do. The reason that these people are in the Bay is because they have severe ties to terrorists--be it funding them or taking part in the global Jihad.
We cannot, for security purposes, know why the people are locked up there. We merely have their greiving families suggesting that he is innocent...and the media reports that...and people start to take it with their Oatmeal in the morning and keep it as factual truth.
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
- Edward R. Murrow
The worst part is until you put them on trial its all speculation!
If someone cam on here and posted that 100 or more people had been detained for over 3 years without trial and treated in conditions worse than convicted muderers on death row and subjected to forms of abuse bordering on torture, with no prospect of going to trial for anything. We would all say "O DAMN those Chinese or North Koreans for having such a brutal system in their country"
But we arnt talking about China or NK are we ?
Thats what is so hard to believe and accept!
I hate to sound snobbish, but you _are_ in Austrailia, where the biggest form of news occurs when your bicycle team gets run down by a car. It is simply a matter of perspective, which you have (which is designated by your location alone).
That's the US's point of view as well, after 911 there were bombings at Bombay, Aus has even made some televisions shows on it. The news in the US just well ignored that pretty much and put it somewhere hidden in the back pages of the newspaper. Arrogance is a common thing when countries communicate.
Then there was the case with the lady being held in India cause she sposedly was carrying drugs it was all over the aussie news, and as an american I didn't hear about it till my aussie friend told me via Instant Messeging.
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
The worst part is until you put them on trial its all speculation!
If someone cam on here and posted that 100 or more people had been detained for over 3 years without trial and treated in conditions worse than convicted muderers on death row and subjected to forms of abuse bordering on torture, with no prospect of going to trial for anything. We would all say "O DAMN those Chinese or North Koreans for having such a brutal system in their country"
But we arnt talking about China or NK are we ?
Thats what is so hard to believe and accept!
I hate to sound snobbish, but you _are_ in Austrailia, where the biggest form of news occurs when your bicycle team gets run down by a car. It is simply a matter of perspective, which you have (which is designated by your location alone).
You do have valid points, but not being an American and simply dismissing our country as wrong is not correct or the proper thing to do. The reason that these people are in the Bay is because they have severe ties to terrorists--be it funding them or taking part in the global Jihad.
We cannot, for security purposes, know why the people are locked up there. We merely have their greiving families suggesting that he is innocent...and the media reports that...and people start to take it with their Oatmeal in the morning and keep it as factual truth.
Ok so we will just ignore Bali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_terrorist_bombing
We will ignore the fact that Australian SAS troops were the first Coalition forces into Iraq. We will ignore the fact that Australian SAS troops saved dozens of Rangers in a firefight in Afghanistan. We will ignore the fact that Australia remains the most soild partner in the Coalition and will still be there after the UK has pulled out. We will ignore the fact that our Embassy in Indonesia was bombed. We will ignore the fact that one of our citizens David Hicks has sat in "the bay" for 3 years without trial.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/24/1050777363885.html?oneclick=true
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Special_Air_Service_Regiment
http://www.command-post.org/2_archives/010512.html Excerpt below from this link
"Australian SAS soldiers were the closest Coalition troops to Baghdad for several days early in the Iraq war and had to engage in running firefights with enemy forces who were actively hunting them down.
A report released today reviewing Australia's military performance in Iraq details skirmishes between Iraqi and elite SAS troops in the days before the fall of Baghdad.
SAS soldiers were involved in one of the first ground confrontations of the war, as troops negotiated Iraqi border posts in the first wave of the ground assault on the country."
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Afghanistan
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Terror/aus.html
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10335703
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Australia/SASR/afghanistan.htm excerpt from this link below
"In light of the tragic events of September 11, 2001, Australia was one of the first nations to offer military support to the US response against terrorism. On October 5, 2001 it was announced that the Australian government will be committing its forces in the War against Terror. The centrepiece of this contribution was a squadron group of approximately 150 personnel from the Special Air Service Regiment (SASR)."
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We will instead focus on this "bike race" .... which bike race ? Lance Armstrong is American!
If you and your Government are so certain of these peoples undeniable guilt you will no doubt be in a huge hurry to get them to trial and get them convicted no ? Guilt or innocence in any civilised country is determined by a court not by allegations. Im not suggesting they are innocent nor am I suggesting they are guilty. The US Govenment is suggesting they are guilty of "something". So why then 2 years after most of them have been detained do they still sit there with 95% of the NOT EVEN HAVING BEEN CHARGED with any offence AT ALL!!!
Our nation is extremely commited to the coalition and our citizens including me... in fact especially me as a former member of the Australian Regular Army, have EVERY RIGHT to comment on the way the people who are SUSPECTED of involvment in this mess are being treated.
So yes lets stick to the factual truth shall we! My fisrt sugestion to you is to turn off fox news and go LEARN SOME FACTS before you run off at the mouth with your ill informed rhetoric and just make yourself look like a fool.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
The worst part is until you put them on trial its all speculation!
If someone cam on here and posted that 100 or more people had been detained for over 3 years without trial and treated in conditions worse than convicted muderers on death row and subjected to forms of abuse bordering on torture, with no prospect of going to trial for anything. We would all say "O DAMN those Chinese or North Koreans for having such a brutal system in their country"
But we arnt talking about China or NK are we ?
Thats what is so hard to believe and accept!
I hate to sound snobbish, but you _are_ in Austrailia, where the biggest form of news occurs when your bicycle team gets run down by a car. It is simply a matter of perspective, which you have (which is designated by your location alone).
You do have valid points, but not being an American and simply dismissing our country as wrong is not correct or the proper thing to do. The reason that these people are in the Bay is because they have severe ties to terrorists--be it funding them or taking part in the global Jihad.
We cannot, for security purposes, know why the people are locked up there. We merely have their greiving families suggesting that he is innocent...and the media reports that...and people start to take it with their Oatmeal in the morning and keep it as factual truth.
And that is the problem with us Americans these day. Some of us have turned into a pack of snobs. We think that since another country does not agree with our policies and they don't have the military might that we have, we look down our noses with contempt! "How DARE they disagree with us! Don't they know that we're the USA? We know what is best for everyone. Didn't we save thw world X amount of times? Didn't we give them foreign aid? They should be grateful to us! " Sorry but if we want to "win the hearts and minds" of the Islamic world (or even our allies) and bring peace between two very different ways of life then we are going to have to check the ego at the door and start practicing what we preach. If these people are guilty then put them to trial and lets see the evidence against them. Let's get some due process in here! If we are not very, very careful we run the risk of become the very thing we're claiming to fight. We run the risk of becoming the Soviet Union, or the Peoples Republic of China or North Korea. People say it could never happen here. But that's exactly the same thing that the Roman Republic thought. That Rome could never be a empire run by a dictator. If it happened to them, it can happen to us too!!
To anyone that hasn't read this,
Congressman Conyers has made a compete timeline on the war in Iraq, with quotes of all the lies we were given before the war:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/downloads/conyerstimeline.pdf
Why are so many American's up their own arses?
Not all of them... but a good chunk of them.
[we need a worldwide genocide/ a planetary suicide/ and when the whole damned world is dead/ there''s your f***ing peace]
He can't, he was a failure as a peanut farmer as well.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Double post, site errored.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
No, the site threw an error on me as usual when I posted and didn't show that my first one went through, even though apparently it had.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
coming from the guy who destroyed 13 million jobs, put inflation up to 12.4% and the interest rates up to 21%
oh yea...good source Kiamde.
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
Whats with this attitude of pointing to other peoples/countries mistakes in an attemp to justify our own actions? this is missdirection at its best.
Fact is, nowhere in U.S history have "detainees" been so wrongly treated, why did they choose guantanamo? simply because it is not part of U.S territory, U.S laws prohibit prisoners to be turtured, imprisoned without a trial and without any charges presented.
Is this the act of an administration you want to support? people who have no qualms about kidnaping you from your home, torturing you, and keeping you in a cell for several years without the right to a trial or even telling you why you are there? remmenber, there are U.S citizens there, as well as U.K citizens, spanish, australian and german amongts other nationalities, those are supposed to be allied countries, even so we ask ourselfs why countries that always supported the U.S are backing down from the coalition? because thats their citizens that are beeing tortured and they are powerless to do anything.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Thank you...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
What that is true or not it totally beyond the point. Carter was a good man, and was always intrested in upholding christian value of helping his fellow man, something Bush doesn't. At least he didn't kill thousands of people, just to install a islamic fundamentalist government with ties to Iran.