It's not that I hate the quests so much, I just don't feel that I get any worthwhile rewards for doing all these quests in the long run. What do I look forward to when I level up? I now get to grind for gear that will only lead to more gear that leads to more gear. There never really seems to be an end in sight.
When it comes to that point it doesn't seem like all that work I put into my character accomplished anything. It just seems like I wasted all that time leveling just so I can level up my gear, when in reality, I want to have done hard/ardous quests that should feel rewarding when you finish them.
I just don't see how people enjoy doing endless quest after quest, or repeating the same dungeon over and over just so they can do more dungeons. I would understand if they did that so that they can experience the new content, but most people do it so they can get better gear for their character. I understand that you can get new improved armor (WoW) for grinding the dungeons, but it seems so worthless when you have to do it all over again because that armor is worse by 5-10 stat points.
I don't know, I think about this often and I tell myself, "Well, don't you get the same sense of achievement for getting all this gear in the end and having the best gear in WoW and then killing Deathwing?"
I don't feel like I accomplished anything because it wasn't hard to get to that point, it was TIME CONSUMING. IN MY OPINION, just because it took forever to get doesn't mean it was hard.
Yea the current quest system was created to disguise the original grind-it-out system in UO/EQ. Sure EQ had SOME quests, but they were not made to replace the combat-specific leveling. WoW was able to disguise a grind and it appealed to lots of players. But after a while, just like with the older games the players wise up and realize they are grinding. Not only are they grinding, but its "accomplishments" they have already achieved. Maybe its just be, but after the 100th time of "getting my level 20 mount" it gets very ho-hum, but the first time it was very exciting.
I agree EVE has replaced an active grind to a passive grind, at which point one can question whether or not it is still a grind or not. But I'm still waiting for the next "hiding of the grind" just like when the bread-crumbing quests came out, that will be new and exciting for a while.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
That's a big reason why GW2 won't have quests like that anymore. Instead you'll have a world full of dunamic events that are going on whether or not you're there, and as you join events and change the outcome that outcome will persist. The next person to come along will see the world as you've helped change it. The days of NPCs standing there with exclamation points over their heads wanting you (and the next guy, and the next guy...) to go kill ten orcs that are standing around in a field staring at bumblebees are pretty much ending. You haven't been doing MMOs wrong... they've been doing you wrong.
are you serious? GW2 will ditch WoW typical quest system?
that is, zone after zone after zone of damn NPC's with their hated exclamation marks?
i've always thought that the quest system IS the heart of the hated themepark sub-genre.
Like I stated previously about Guild Wars. I had to do these quests and I could do fun farms on bosses and mobs and I could get a cool looking armor set for my character and when that was done I could go do my own things. It felt like I worked hard to get my character where it was and my character was a Grade-A Certified Badass of Epic Proportions raised to the Nth power of Sick Nastiness. But recently, it just feels like I get gear, so I can get more gear, to get gear that will allow me to get better gear.
Am I just playing the wrong games? Am I missing the fun content because the game ephisizes on getting me to level cap? Or am I just playing MMOs incorrectly?
Well, I went through a similar thing when I played EQ, WOW and AoC. For me, I think it was just evolution. As some people get older, their "tastes" change. You're not playing MMO's incorrectly. You might just be tired of what motivated you at first.
It may be that you might need to redefine what if "fun" for you.
I moved on to enjoying exploring the world I'm in. I began to enjoy the story and lore in the game.
Don't get me wrong: I still enjoy getting nicer gear and better skills. It's just not my primary motivation anymore. I would say to either redefine what is "fun" for you, or simply take a break from games.
It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.
I also agree 100%. I think the age of MMO gaming might actually decline soon. It seems that people are starting to question it. It's my dream to see people playing outside again.
Like I stated previously about Guild Wars. I had to do these quests and I could do fun farms on bosses and mobs and I could get a cool looking armor set for my character and when that was done I could go do my own things. It felt like I worked hard to get my character where it was and my character was a Grade-A Certified Badass of Epic Proportions raised to the Nth power of Sick Nastiness. But recently, it just feels like I get gear, so I can get more gear, to get gear that will allow me to get better gear.
Am I just playing the wrong games? Am I missing the fun content because the game ephisizes on getting me to level cap? Or am I just playing MMOs incorrectly?
Well, I went through a similar thing when I played EQ, WOW and AoC. For me, I think it was just evolution. As some people get older, their "tastes" change. You're not playing MMO's incorrectly. You might just be tired of what motivated you at first.
It may be that you might need to redefine what if "fun" for you.
I moved on to enjoying exploring the world I'm in. I began to enjoy the story and lore in the game.
Don't get me wrong: I still enjoy getting nicer gear and better skills. It's just not my primary motivation anymore. I would say to either redefine what is "fun" for you, or simply take a break from games.
I enjoy the exploration aspects of some games as well. I enjoyed the scenery in many games, but I want to be able to create my own story. The reasons I always wanted to play MMOs was that you get to play an RPG but do your own thing. I want to go kill these dragons and conquer lands not because I was told to, but because I want to.
Oddly enough, I don't think I ever played EVE or any other MMOs in the "sandbox" genre due to there being so few good games in that genre.
The fact is that they slowly eroded all the purpose in these games. First you would do quests because of the endgame, then endgame was eliminated, then they took away the challenge of actually solving a quest(WoW had no map marker, you had to FIND the location to find the NPC that dropped the quest object), then they took away the reason for growing your character because it is always stronger than every NPC.
There's nothing left, we're playing with chewed carcasses of dead rabbits. Problem is, software houses know that many LOVE dead carcasses, if they smell like cake.
What drove me to do all the quests and collections in SWG was the really cool items you got as rewards, and the items were physical objects ( if you can call it that) that you could trade, use or just decorate with.
I also find todays MMO´s boring since its all a long grind, you really dont get much rewards for completing quests.
I mean, in an MMO without housing or other ways to use rewards its simple; if it doesnt have stat on it, its useless.
IF, and thats a big IF, the quest isnt worth doing for the sheer fun....but how common is that?
most MMOs it is possible yes but the amount of time is considerably crazy huge mega more than if you do quests.
I remember when WoW made the firm shift toward quest progression. It was toward the end of Vanilla or possibly the beginning of BC. Many of us were still grinding and grind groups were fairly common. Then quest XP doubled in a patch. It pretty much killed off kill XP progression in favor of "quest grind".
The reason I remember this is I was playing a hunter. Pets only gained XP from kills. Doubling quest XP made it impossible to keep a pet to level. They fixed it something like 2 patches later after all the hunters complained.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I dont want to sound all negative - but its clearly to see that you have overdone things - you are "sated" with gaming. Until there is nothing game-breaking new, you will end up like almost 60% of all people online: start complaining and complaining.
Every "normal" human out there stops if he has enough of something, not a "gamer" - I dont want to sound racist, but you can see differences. Normal brain activity seems to switch and for some reason, one start to consume and consume and consume - literally MINDLESS.
Everyone can realize this if he or she steps away a few hours (best: days) and think about the last gaming sessions. Was it good? What did I achieve exactly? Was it worth it spending my time? Do I really want to continue with this particular game?
Who here played WOW and remembers the quest line to gain entrance to Onyxia's Lair? Now that was one of the few chains that truely felt legendary in that game, and the best moment came at the end when you would march into Stormwind to a hero's welcome.
If MMORPG quests were more like that, and a whole lot less of fetch this, kill that, I think we'd find the magic in them once again.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Who here played WOW and remembers the quest line to gain entrance to Onyxia's Lair? Now that was one of the few chains that truely felt legendary in that game, and the best moment came at the end when you would march into Stormwind to a hero's welcome.
If MMORPG quests were more like that, and a whole lot less of fetch this, kill that, I think we'd find the magic in them once again.
Bascially you mean if quests were actually quests.
Basically, MMO's always have SOME kind of "why am I doing X over and over again?" sort of gameplay. Before quests, it was just killing mob after mob after mob...
Ultimately, once you've finally done it so much that you can no longer deny having seen the "man behind the curtain", there aren't likely many options available to you.
As Kyleran suggested, Eve is probably your last resort, IMO. It's not that it doesn't have a grind; it's just that that grind is NOT advancing in character power. In terms of determining what you want to do, character skill level is off the table, so there's more of a feeling of freedom than you have with other games.
However, a person can still end up grinding in that game just like any other. Missions are the simplest, most predictable means to aquire wealth, so you may end up just doing mission after mission after mission. Mining is every bit as dull as it sounds, at least without company, while at the same time you can potentially have your cans stolen, and/or your mining vessel blown up. Manufacturing/research is about as involved(though more interesting) as SWTOR's crafting system is.
Anyhoo... it ultimately comes down to whether you're still capable of NOT actively looking for the "man behind the curtain"... where your cynicism has brought you to the point to where you feel like you're just pressing buttons to go through hoops to get some reward which allows you to press more buttons to go through hoops to get some reward(ad infinitum)... to where you actually get involved in the world which the game is trying to create.
Quest hub to quest hub, to get the same exact rewards as everybody else. Finally hit max level, grind the raids and dungeons to get 'uber gear'... that everybody has.
The problem with quests, ive always said it, is that they steal content. Following you from map to map in and out of the game they take away exploration, levelling, wealth gathering, gear gathering, and obviously story-telling, not to mention that since they provide everything a player needs, they take away the reason to interact with others, most of the time.
I've been trolling quests for years, they're content vampires, IMO.
They should be less invasive, i'd rather have the good old terminal or screen where i see all bounties and tasks and problems and from there accept one and go do it, and if they have to give you XP or make you level up in someway, they should take place in instances! While in current games it's the only thing that happens in open-world, stealing room off PvP and more interesting activities, which is what instead is exiled into instances.
Situation is very very very bad and it's all because of quests, imo. They murdered MMO's.
Comments
Sounds like the OP is burntout. Its a common sickness these days.
It's not that I hate the quests so much, I just don't feel that I get any worthwhile rewards for doing all these quests in the long run. What do I look forward to when I level up? I now get to grind for gear that will only lead to more gear that leads to more gear. There never really seems to be an end in sight.
When it comes to that point it doesn't seem like all that work I put into my character accomplished anything. It just seems like I wasted all that time leveling just so I can level up my gear, when in reality, I want to have done hard/ardous quests that should feel rewarding when you finish them.
I just don't see how people enjoy doing endless quest after quest, or repeating the same dungeon over and over just so they can do more dungeons. I would understand if they did that so that they can experience the new content, but most people do it so they can get better gear for their character. I understand that you can get new improved armor (WoW) for grinding the dungeons, but it seems so worthless when you have to do it all over again because that armor is worse by 5-10 stat points.
I don't know, I think about this often and I tell myself, "Well, don't you get the same sense of achievement for getting all this gear in the end and having the best gear in WoW and then killing Deathwing?"
I don't feel like I accomplished anything because it wasn't hard to get to that point, it was TIME CONSUMING. IN MY OPINION, just because it took forever to get doesn't mean it was hard.
Yea the current quest system was created to disguise the original grind-it-out system in UO/EQ. Sure EQ had SOME quests, but they were not made to replace the combat-specific leveling. WoW was able to disguise a grind and it appealed to lots of players. But after a while, just like with the older games the players wise up and realize they are grinding. Not only are they grinding, but its "accomplishments" they have already achieved. Maybe its just be, but after the 100th time of "getting my level 20 mount" it gets very ho-hum, but the first time it was very exciting.
I agree EVE has replaced an active grind to a passive grind, at which point one can question whether or not it is still a grind or not. But I'm still waiting for the next "hiding of the grind" just like when the bread-crumbing quests came out, that will be new and exciting for a while.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
are you serious? GW2 will ditch WoW typical quest system?
that is, zone after zone after zone of damn NPC's with their hated exclamation marks?
i've always thought that the quest system IS the heart of the hated themepark sub-genre.
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Like I stated previously about Guild Wars. I had to do these quests and I could do fun farms on bosses and mobs and I could get a cool looking armor set for my character and when that was done I could go do my own things. It felt like I worked hard to get my character where it was and my character was a Grade-A Certified Badass of Epic Proportions raised to the Nth power of Sick Nastiness. But recently, it just feels like I get gear, so I can get more gear, to get gear that will allow me to get better gear.
Am I just playing the wrong games? Am I missing the fun content because the game ephisizes on getting me to level cap? Or am I just playing MMOs incorrectly?
Well, I went through a similar thing when I played EQ, WOW and AoC. For me, I think it was just evolution. As some people get older, their "tastes" change. You're not playing MMO's incorrectly. You might just be tired of what motivated you at first.
It may be that you might need to redefine what if "fun" for you.
I moved on to enjoying exploring the world I'm in. I began to enjoy the story and lore in the game.
Don't get me wrong: I still enjoy getting nicer gear and better skills. It's just not my primary motivation anymore. I would say to either redefine what is "fun" for you, or simply take a break from games.
It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.
I also agree 100%. I think the age of MMO gaming might actually decline soon. It seems that people are starting to question it. It's my dream to see people playing outside again.
I enjoy the exploration aspects of some games as well. I enjoyed the scenery in many games, but I want to be able to create my own story. The reasons I always wanted to play MMOs was that you get to play an RPG but do your own thing. I want to go kill these dragons and conquer lands not because I was told to, but because I want to.
Oddly enough, I don't think I ever played EVE or any other MMOs in the "sandbox" genre due to there being so few good games in that genre.
The fact is that they slowly eroded all the purpose in these games. First you would do quests because of the endgame, then endgame was eliminated, then they took away the challenge of actually solving a quest(WoW had no map marker, you had to FIND the location to find the NPC that dropped the quest object), then they took away the reason for growing your character because it is always stronger than every NPC.
There's nothing left, we're playing with chewed carcasses of dead rabbits. Problem is, software houses know that many LOVE dead carcasses, if they smell like cake.
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The fact is even though theya re known as questhubs they should be known as chore hubs, Since a quest is somethign special to go on.
What drove me to do all the quests and collections in SWG was the really cool items you got as rewards, and the items were physical objects ( if you can call it that) that you could trade, use or just decorate with.
I also find todays MMO´s boring since its all a long grind, you really dont get much rewards for completing quests.
I mean, in an MMO without housing or other ways to use rewards its simple; if it doesnt have stat on it, its useless.
IF, and thats a big IF, the quest isnt worth doing for the sheer fun....but how common is that?
I remember when WoW made the firm shift toward quest progression. It was toward the end of Vanilla or possibly the beginning of BC. Many of us were still grinding and grind groups were fairly common. Then quest XP doubled in a patch. It pretty much killed off kill XP progression in favor of "quest grind".
The reason I remember this is I was playing a hunter. Pets only gained XP from kills. Doubling quest XP made it impossible to keep a pet to level. They fixed it something like 2 patches later after all the hunters complained.
I dont want to sound all negative - but its clearly to see that you have overdone things - you are "sated" with gaming. Until there is nothing game-breaking new, you will end up like almost 60% of all people online: start complaining and complaining.
Every "normal" human out there stops if he has enough of something, not a "gamer" - I dont want to sound racist, but you can see differences. Normal brain activity seems to switch and for some reason, one start to consume and consume and consume - literally MINDLESS.
Everyone can realize this if he or she steps away a few hours (best: days) and think about the last gaming sessions. Was it good? What did I achieve exactly? Was it worth it spending my time? Do I really want to continue with this particular game?
You're not alone on this one.
Who here played WOW and remembers the quest line to gain entrance to Onyxia's Lair? Now that was one of the few chains that truely felt legendary in that game, and the best moment came at the end when you would march into Stormwind to a hero's welcome.
If MMORPG quests were more like that, and a whole lot less of fetch this, kill that, I think we'd find the magic in them once again.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Tired of running endless quests? Time to graduate and step up to a sandbox.
I havent done a quest in a MMO in over... 2 or 3 years now.
Bascially you mean if quests were actually quests.
Basically, MMO's always have SOME kind of "why am I doing X over and over again?" sort of gameplay. Before quests, it was just killing mob after mob after mob...
Ultimately, once you've finally done it so much that you can no longer deny having seen the "man behind the curtain", there aren't likely many options available to you.
As Kyleran suggested, Eve is probably your last resort, IMO. It's not that it doesn't have a grind; it's just that that grind is NOT advancing in character power. In terms of determining what you want to do, character skill level is off the table, so there's more of a feeling of freedom than you have with other games.
However, a person can still end up grinding in that game just like any other. Missions are the simplest, most predictable means to aquire wealth, so you may end up just doing mission after mission after mission. Mining is every bit as dull as it sounds, at least without company, while at the same time you can potentially have your cans stolen, and/or your mining vessel blown up. Manufacturing/research is about as involved(though more interesting) as SWTOR's crafting system is.
Anyhoo... it ultimately comes down to whether you're still capable of NOT actively looking for the "man behind the curtain"... where your cynicism has brought you to the point to where you feel like you're just pressing buttons to go through hoops to get some reward which allows you to press more buttons to go through hoops to get some reward(ad infinitum)... to where you actually get involved in the world which the game is trying to create.
Hate themeparks for this reason.
Quest hub to quest hub, to get the same exact rewards as everybody else. Finally hit max level, grind the raids and dungeons to get 'uber gear'... that everybody has.
The problem with quests, ive always said it, is that they steal content. Following you from map to map in and out of the game they take away exploration, levelling, wealth gathering, gear gathering, and obviously story-telling, not to mention that since they provide everything a player needs, they take away the reason to interact with others, most of the time.
I've been trolling quests for years, they're content vampires, IMO.
They should be less invasive, i'd rather have the good old terminal or screen where i see all bounties and tasks and problems and from there accept one and go do it, and if they have to give you XP or make you level up in someway, they should take place in instances! While in current games it's the only thing that happens in open-world, stealing room off PvP and more interesting activities, which is what instead is exiled into instances.
Situation is very very very bad and it's all because of quests, imo. They murdered MMO's.
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