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was interested until i played HnH
seeing as this game is basicly haven and hearth 2.0 (same coding just 3d graphics)
i figured i would try out their first game HnH.. to see what salem will be similar to (i know its not the same but both are using the same gameplay setup. crafting/pvp/perma-death ect)
WELL after playing HnH for about 1 week i no longer have any hype towards trying salem. if it does infact go down the same road as HnH it will never get beyond the small player base that HnH has.
in my week of playing HnH i have been randomly killed for lulz. as well as looted. iv had a relocated little settlement i and 2 friends spent 3 days building 50% claimed by some random douchebag (before people pip in about land claim.. he spent about 10-20k LP to claim my village area as well as a good chunk of the other side of the river several map blocks away..)
i forsee similar asshats in salem doing the same stuff. and frankly i dont see how anyone can call it fun unless you are the one doing the "trolling"
the are no rules in HnH just like there will be no rules in salem. of the 1000 people the devs claim they have had... i cant help but wonder if that 1000 is just a few 100 people with all their scripted bot alts... (yes people publicly post game scripts for everything from farming to logging as well as possibly mining)
soo pretty much if you dont play 24/7 from day 1 of launch dont bother playing salem, as that is the same vibe i get from HnH if you are a "noob" you shouldnt play the game. it seems to take elitistism to another dimention or some thing.
all in all, i am no longer interested in salem as i used to be. i can take asshattery, i can take being randomly killed for lulz but after playing hnh and seeing it used as actual intended game play.. i wash my hands of it.... there is no enjoyment from that unless you are the person doing it.
while i do hope salem launches well, i cant see it being extremely popular unless you are a machocist or enjoy making alt after alt and running scripts 24/7 instead of playing the game.
~im sure people will QQ about this thread but i dont care at this point. just 1 less person playing salem, wont bother suggesting it to friends anymore either.~
Comments
It's true... HnH is how Russians take revenge on the west for the Cold War, heh.
It attracts a super hardcore crowd of asshats that marginalizes the creative aspects through usurping them, or outright ruining them. Wurm Online is the same way, but it has PvE servers (where it can still happen, but not as rampantly... you have to be creative to be a douchebag). If HnH and Salem had seperate servers where f**kery could be kept at a minimum, and people were free to get their creative fix ala Minecraft without Creepers, then they would have a much larger (and more permanent) playerbase.
Sadly though, like HnH and other creation games, every map needs a wipe once at critical mass. Running out of room is the one caveat that cannot be stopped without flipping the game board over. So, expect the answer to too much crowding to be a reset.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
i dont know on that, reading the forums it seems the current world (i think its world 6 now) is already long past as some of the alliance groups go out of their way to "grief" new players and i mean really new players.. guys who just spawned on the game (not a reincarnated one)
its also pretty sad when they openly state within a few months of a new world people can take down the first level of defense walls by hand walls that barehanded require around 600 str...
i was enjoying HnH until all this ass hattery started happening. being killed for lulz i can live with.. but to have people land claim your area (as you are working to rebuild your LP to claim your new home) is just pathetic.
watching some of the videos on salem already tells me similar stuff will happen in it. people will join the game and be spawned killed just because an older player is there. or they will wait for the noob to build a nice little farm house and land claim all or half of it just because they can.
then you will have the players bitching about how there arent enough new people in the game its always the same 10 people every day.. but they wont wonder why everyone quit...
i dont know which game you are refering this post to but it adds nothing to the discussion of the OP. do you mean move on from salem? or what?? seeing as i have only seen the alpha videos of salem, making the claim the game is not for me at this stage its development is kind of assenine. simply do to the fact no one can actually play to make that claim.
but its fine. using your post one can say.
"so dont post this thread isn't for you" for the same effect...
where am i bitching? am i QQing about perma death? no. i am not.
if you actually read what i posted i stated i accepted being killed and looted. and spending 3 days relocating and rebuilding.
what i do not accept is some asshat coming along and claiming half the game map because he can.. a land claim is 5x5 tiles his is 5x2000 tiles.. it cuts my little town in half.
now if that was an actual game mechanic i wouldnt care i would say WELL fk.. much like i did when a guy killed me for lulz.
but i really do not see how you can adapt to this when 1 player who either is bored or hacks enough LP (im not surpized if people dont have 1million LP stocked up on alts) comes along and land claims the whole game world FYI if you havent played HnH you can not land claim 5 tiles near another claim.
so this player as pretty much cut not only my little town my friends and i built over 3 days on our own.. but he prevents me from protecting my walls from him and his friends breaking them down for kicks and looting the place.
salem like HnH is marketed as a crafting game. much like minecraft was/is marketed as.
what they should be listed as is FFA-PVP games not crafting.
how would you feel if this kind of thing was done in WoW or EQ? where you could not leave the starting town period do to someone owning the land right outside the door? (hnh you have to put on criminal acts to move across land not owned by you. if you use any illegal actions "theft ect" you leave a scent that can and will get you tracked/hunted and summed to your spawn where you are killed. Argo i come along to your nice little village you spent 1 month building all by your self. and land claim right outside your door/exit making it so you have to do criminal actions to even leave your town.. then you some how leave a scent and BAM i kill you for lulz... yup thats fun right there)
seeing as a good majority of salem's future players are from HnH that means anyone who is not part of their little click or epic leet pro should never play salem. aka no new population growth.. = boring game
He is not bitching this thread was VERY helpful. Thanks man. Oh, and troller just move on the post isnt for you.
John ***win
im glad my thread is helpful to some extent. while i do still plan to atleast try salem (its the reason im trying HnH) time will tell if i actually enjoy it or not.
im giving HnH a bit longer before i pull the plug on it fully... as im getting tired of relocating across the game world. (iv relocated my "town" 3 times now which is not an easy/ quick thing to do)which is quite a large map (least in HnH's case) but there is also very limited space.
one of the real reason i seem to find (going by the HnH forums) is that a map/server reset/wipe is almost manditory given the style these kinds of games try to impart on the players. without a restart you wind up with people who literally can own the whole game world preventing anyone from doing anything.
the only real issue i have seem to find in HnH (which i think will be an issue in salem given its closely relatated setup) is that anyone at any time can kill you and put a landclaim on half/all of your land. as well as if you do play long enough to aquire the resources for a village claim (takes alot of work solo to do. or a team of atleast 4+ players dedicated to do it) they can take your village claim from you.
they have gates in the game but every "noob" guide you read they flat out say dont use gates make villages for "crossroad" signs to teleport outside the walls ect.. (kinda ruins my immersion of the game porting around but it does save you up to 50minutes walking) as well the gates have keys that can and will be stolen if you are killed or foolishly leave your gate open (how a bandit killed me the first time, afk with a gate open was a bad idea) hopefully salem alters that to some extent i really do not like needing 2 pcs and 2 accounts just to play the game.. (1 account holds my gate keys and opens my doors so i can leave... rather annoying)
though i do have 1 thing to bitch about that i and many have found super annoying in HnH, and given that salem is using the same coding it may very well be a similer gripe in salem. and that is the horrible server lag. they openly boast about how HnH can/has supported up to 1500 players... but i look at their website and it says 400 users online or 500 online ect.. and i go ingame and wind up spending 10 minutes frozen in place or walking in spot while i wait for the game to stop lagging out/freezing. i feel like i jump from a 50-100ms ping up to 999-1000ms ping in 0.5seconds during play at random.
now i dont know if thats just do to where the server is located (seems odd as i can and have connected to russian/aussie/asia game servers with 0-250ms ping just fine) or if its all the bots being used in game but i find the game lag super annoying. given that even though you are lagged out some of the animals in the game can and will kill you while you cant move.
hopefully they get some sort of handle on the lag problems from hnh when they launch salem. as i cant help but see 1500+ people trying it at launch only to bash and flame it right after because they lagged out and got killed by a rabbit. thats my only real gripe.
ya the 2nd relocate i did a player was nice enough to drop off some enthroned toads and other W10+ LP items as well as some Q30+ items. the drawback i hit was, i had just died so was in the processes of relocating my old village (the bandit had taken my gate key so i had no means to secure my walls (it was before i created a 2nd account solely for key holding) so i was spending upwards of 30-40 minutes moving whole cabinates of items by boat/leather backpack to the new spot, while there a bear spawned ontop of me (my game had froze still not sure why i think its my ender client messingup) and killed me again.. so i was again back at square one. so a friend who managed to get yoaman was working to claim our camp walls (i had started the walls when i died.)
BUT with the lack of LP (reincarnated toons dont get the lp for finding bark or branches) we were slowed down on getting LP to claim the camp fully when some asshat claimed half of it. as well as forded the river with the claim and such. (rather stupid claim frankly 5x1000 or so is just dumb)
but sadly im getting hit with the lack of claimable areas, im trying to not build near towns/player homes. my "horror" story isnt that uncommon with HnH, just alot of people get lucky. sadly though i have nothing of offer to high levels, i mean at times the best items i get is like Q10-20 crops or maybe a Q20 curio the only floatsom i had i used the day before i died lol so rebuilding a toon back up is time consuming while trying to protect your land.
naturally i would suggest people try the game a few days instead of just taking mine or someone's elses word for how the game is. but they shouldnt go in expecting any sort of safety
brand new spawned players can and will be killed by a guy just because he can kill them. i think that is part of what keeps the population small they rage quit.
You need(ed), (if you didn't already) move to the south end of Haven and Hearth. Has been the case since every world I've been a part of the game, since world 3. Best to find a cave too.
The northern regions are filled with Russians that want to kill you and drive around in mechs with nuclear bombs as weapons and shoot lazers out of their eyes.
The northern regions also have raiders, griefers, pirates and killer Koreans.
The southern regions are much less populated, and mostly filled with friendly people. The last world, I lived just north of an abandoned Russian village...the ones left were actually really friendly and it was more of a farming village...but they got put in the middle of a war between two cities and a lot of it got destroyed. It was like walking around in a post-apocalyptic style city, with a few survivors making due with what was left. But, I stayed in this area for 4-5 months and never even got stolen from and all I had was a stick fence and not even a claim lol.
But the current world, without stating a location besides the southern area of the world...I've been here since a month after the start, took a week to find a place to live, did some stuff, took a couple months break and no one has come by to take over or grief anything. Except there was a large settlement that moved in not too far away and they dug into the cavern(s) I live in...they did take some stuff, mostly boar meat and a few pieces of leather. But they actually helped protect my cavern. Since the tunnels have two caves (might have one or two more, haven't explored it all) to get into the area...I have one cave protected, and the now abandoned settlement secured the second cave entrance. I plan to get vandalism so I can harvest their farm they have. They have tons of carrots that I want, and carrots are a pain to get lol.
But the cavern I live in is literally 300 tiles long, about 50 or so tiles wide and plus, there is 3 other, smaller but still medium sized caverns that connect up to the main cavern. Its where my home is going to be..
Three or four koreans did recently move into the area, can walk to their home in 30 seconds, maybe not even that, lol...but I met one guy and he was really really friendly. Haven't met the other two/three, since I'm PST time they play while I'm sleeping. But, he gave me a dead boar, and I gave him some stuff. So that was cool. Before it was just me in the area, cause I don't have anyone else to play with. And the area is kind of dead of people, most people who come by end up disappearing after a few weeks or a couple months lol...there was a village to the north, but their area looks to have become abandoned since after I came back on a break.
But yeah...HnH actually does have a good community, but there is a lot of asshats as well. The best people I've found since world 3, have always been in the southern areas of the map. Which are also a lot less populated. But I'm sure that isn't always the case, I'm sure there are griefers around too...but the northern areas are full of douches for the most part. They seem to go north mostly, where as survivors being forced out of the northern areas or people wanting peace, tend to go south. But really, my area is really empty for the most part, there are people around, but a lot of abandoned areas.
The problem I have is, I have a hard time finding people to join me in my cavern/settlement. I never recruit on the official forums, because too easy to get griefers and the worst place ever to find someone, would be like going to 4chan and recruiting their...would only end in fails. Or the person ends up leaving the game after a day or two if you do find someone legit. And I do recruit on another forum I go to, and that has been a good success...I will probably try that again. But, I don't really have a way to get people to play, besides that one forum. So I just play as a lonely hermit, but trade or chat with people that happen to come by or make their home in the area (which is rare), like I did with the Korean dude.
sadly im stuck in the northern area, we finally got our paliwall up (i know its a joke wall at this point but it helps) so we are going to make a go of it. the area we are in is pretty dead (aka lots of dead villages and towns) but thats fine. i kinda like the hermit while i learn how to play the whole aspect of the game. my old lot a nice russian "woman" (dont know her character name it was just "???" moved in not to far from us nice talking to her but havent seen her on since i moved every thing and ditched the claim on the town.
i really dont think my sister and friend want to relocate our mass stores that far south.. as using boats is quite time consuming plus we just spent 3 days inbetween moving stuff, building up what we have now. so we are long haulling it lol.
i mean dont get me wrong HnH on the surface seems like a fun if not confusing/complex game (hopefully the same will be true in salem.. with the mass confusing aspects) but asshats really detract from the enjoyment of the game (like all games) kinda like the old CS 1.0 awper camp crap years ago.. HnH could be a hugely populated game if the mass asshating wasnt so determental (ofcourse that requires the player to change so i dont see that happening)
i just worry salem will suffer the same problems
HnH has bad controls unfortunately
it's also somewhat unresponsive
these issues will be solved by Salem
I played HnH for a while and actually met pretty nice Russians out there. One helped me settle and gave me tons of crops, other suggested I live with him (in a non sexual kind of way hehe)
unfortunately I had to stop because of constant lag spikes and annoying unresponsiveness
I review lots of indie games and MMORPGs
well the lag and controls are all up in the air at this point. salem is a clicker like HnH but we havent seen how the lag is/will be (alpha videos never show off the lag cause its like what 10 high quality pcs and high quality Lan and maybe 10 people lolol no one will have lag with that)
as for the controls meh the controls never really bother me in HnH pulling a cart annoys me when it gets stuck on tree roots it shouldnt be getting stuck on and such but alot of that i think is partly do to lag as i find i get stuck on things alot of the time do to lag spikes that reset my path then when i click to try and refresh it i wind up spining around in to things. but again that will be unknown until an actual OB client is out for salem and more then 10-20 people are on it showing off the game lol.
though i still worry about the open script use that hnH allows, the years i have spent playing MMOs an games (non-SP games) they have never openly allowed players to use scripts to effect the game play but we will see i guess.
Lmao. There are people who still think the game servers are still running out of the devs' dorm room desktop PC's? That hasn't been true since some time in 2010, when loftar bought some real hosting. The servers are hosted by some company in Germany. The problem causing the lag is something else (and no, it isn't "SO MANY PEOPLE ARE USING BOTS AND THE SERVER CAN'T HANDLE IT")
(12:07:28) <Projeear> Loftar, what's with the lag, and how long till a fix? Hunting ants with 100 UA is as dangerous as hunting a Bear with 50 UA, at the moment.
(12:08:02) <loftar> I wish I knew, Projeear. I'll I'm seeing from my side of the code is that the kernel sometimes takes 10+ seconds to complete simple I/O requests.
(12:08:07) <loftar> I wish I knew why it did that.
(12:08:20) <Projeear> Yeah, it looked like it was having trouble catching up.
(12:08:23) <Projeear> With itself.
(12:08:40) <loftar> I *suspect* it has with XFS to do, but I'm very unsure.
(12:09:12) <Projeear> XFS?
(12:09:17) <loftar> The filesystem.
http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28106&p=361168#p361168
http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28106&p=360971#p360971
http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28106&p=360884#p360884
first as for the original post .its what the game is about.
you want peace full dont play a game with global pvp.cant understand why people QQ about global pvp when every game with it advertises the feature . will it attract a ceartain kind of player? mostly yes and every one knows its not worth it to start on a game like that late. your just entertainment for max / high lvls since theres nothing to do at that point.wouldnt matter if your talking salem , HnH or even aion. what YOU SHOULD PLAY is DARKFALL [mod edit]
and for the bit about mmo's not permiting open use of scripts well go check gravitys site and look in the ragnarok online forum. its not only allowed its required if you use a geneticist since homunculus s is broken ai wise. and people with alchemist just afk grind with homunculus and they encourage the use for mercanaries since the original ai script is poor to say the least.5 main ones to chose from and they all can be alterd theres a few sites that give instructions for altering them and you will get into 0 trouble for talking about how your doing nothing but watching anime online while you let your homunculus/mercinary do all the work