dosen't look to Optimistic over at the offical forums

select20 · February 2012

OP, don't be ignorant. Look at the Official forums of any game, WoW, EQ2, AoC, CoH, etc. All of them will make you think the games are horrible. Hell, you come here and read the forums and it makes you never want to play MMO's again. I stopped reading the official forums of any games. I only come here to see what game is on the hater list. It was SWTOR for a bit, now it seems to be switching over to TERA.

Here is a bit of advice if you ever want to enjoy a game without bias....DON'T READ OFFICIAL FORUMS.

There you go, it will make you MMO experiences so much better. I stopped reading WoW's forums about 2 years ago, and it made everything better.

Wickedjelly · February 2012

Originally posted by dannydeuce
All I know is what I personally see during the game. I see my guild of about 230ish characters with 100 or so actual players considering alts. The guild has 50 or so characters that are active as in played within the past 10 days. Of those characters, a fair share are alts considering my knowledge of the people playing and the levels of the chars. From my calculations, around 50% of the guild with characters on average about level 35 have either quit, moved on to a different character/guild/server, or something else. I could make an educated guess that 25% have quit based on these numbers and conversations over vent/in game chat. This is after 1 1/2 months of play. I do not consider this a good retention rate at all and does not bode well for the longevity of this game.

Been in two guilds. Left because the on only had me and another player logging in and the other one had a decent amount logging in (low teens) but no one ever grouped together or even chatted much. Was rather pointless really. Not to mention I never saw the gm once so I gather him along with god knows how many others quit or rerolled elsewhere.

Anyways, to me what is really telling are simply the amount of players on planets and fleet. The numbers are simply dwindling down everywhere. Does that mean they're quitting completely? Not necessarily, could be rerolling ona more populated server.

But one thing is clear. I cannot talk for the game as a whole, but I can say my server is dying. Which considering it used to be one of the more populated ones really says something.

Frankly, I think their biggest fuckup is they simply released way too many servers for this game so I get the sense may are quitting out of frustration due to being unable to group or feeling the game is lifeless. This game isn't the best for grouping to begin with because of how people get spread out and thier weakass mechanics. Throw in the fact that some of these servers simply don't have the population to justify having a separate server then it only exacerbates the issue.

It doesn't help when you have dickweeds that constantly dismiss these issues going around saying everything is fine everywhere and constantly downplaying those having these issues. Frankly, anymore I find them as much to blame for these games having retention issues and dragging their feet on fixing things as I do the companies. They're so goddamn stubborn they just muddy the waters, giving false info to new players, and false bravado to the company so some issues take way longer to be assessed and evaluated properly. They cause way more damage to these games than the haters they despise so much.

The irony is most times once their rose colored glasses fall off they either slink away without a word or become one of the bigger complainers on forums about the status of the game and its condition. Never fails...

teakbois · February 2012

Originally posted by dannydeuce
All I know is what I personally see during the game. I see my guild of about 230ish characters with 100 or so actual players considering alts. The guild has 50 or so characters that are active as in played within the past 10 days. Of those characters, a fair share are alts considering my knowledge of the people playing and the levels of the chars. From my calculations, around 50% of the guild with characters on average about level 35 have either quit, moved on to a different character/guild/server, or something else. I could make an educated guess that 25% have quit based on these numbers and conversations over vent/in game chat. This is after 1 1/2 months of play. I do not consider this a good retention rate at all and does not bode well for the longevity of this game.

Theres more factors to consider, such as quality of the guild/leadership. eople could have just rolled new toons elsewhere.

But 75% retention would be fairly good, I dont think Rift was that high after 6 weeks. I also dont think SWTOR is that high.

Hatewall · February 2012

I know people enjoy rubbing peoples face in their wrong predictions, so I'll give you some ammo for the near future.

This game will level off at about 300k subs.

FrostWyrm · February 2012

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by dannydeuce

All I know is what I personally see during the game. I see my guild of about 230ish characters with 100 or so actual players considering alts. The guild has 50 or so characters that are active as in played within the past 10 days. Of those characters, a fair share are alts considering my knowledge of the people playing and the levels of the chars. From my calculations, around 50% of the guild with characters on average about level 35 have either quit, moved on to a different character/guild/server, or something else. I could make an educated guess that 25% have quit based on these numbers and conversations over vent/in game chat. This is after 1 1/2 months of play. I do not consider this a good retention rate at all and does not bode well for the longevity of this game.

Theres more factors to consider, such as quality of the guild/leadership. eople could have just rolled new toons elsewhere.

But 75% retention would be fairly good, I dont think Rift was that high after 6 weeks. I also dont think SWTOR is that high.

If I were to guess I would say this is likely due to the whole class tree system. A lot of people (myself included) like to try out multiple classes to find out which one they like best in a new MMORPG. Unfortunately SWTOR's tree system means you dont even get to begin trying a new class until you're level 10. You dont get a good grasp of how the class differs from it's opposing branch until level 20~ish. Then you really dont know if you want to stick with the differences until 30-ish.

FrodoFragins · February 2012

Those forums were so giddy about December 21st arriving and getting rid of the disgruntled forum posters who obviously weren't going to subscribe. Things actually got a little better at first but have gone steadily downhill since.

Wickedjelly · February 2012

Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Those forums were so giddy about December 21st arriving and getting rid of the disgruntled forum posters who obviously weren't going to subscribe. Things actually got a little better at first but have gone steadily downhill since.

Eh, they always do that. They somehow think the forums are magically going to change and all the issues will suddenly disappear. Because clearly the only ones with issues, problem, or are unhappy about things must be people that aren't going to sub anyways.

sanosukex · February 2012

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by dannydeuce

All I know is what I personally see during the game. I see my guild of about 230ish characters with 100 or so actual players considering alts. The guild has 50 or so characters that are active as in played within the past 10 days. Of those characters, a fair share are alts considering my knowledge of the people playing and the levels of the chars. From my calculations, around 50% of the guild with characters on average about level 35 have either quit, moved on to a different character/guild/server, or something else. I could make an educated guess that 25% have quit based on these numbers and conversations over vent/in game chat. This is after 1 1/2 months of play. I do not consider this a good retention rate at all and does not bode well for the longevity of this game.

Been in two guilds. Left because the on only had me and another player logging in and the other one had a decent amount logging in (low teens) but no one ever grouped together or even chatted much. Was rather pointless really. Not to mention I never saw the gm once so I gather him along with god knows how many others quit or rerolled elsewhere.

Anyways, to me what is really telling are simply the amount of players on planets and fleet. The numbers are simply dwindling down everywhere. Does that mean they're quitting completely? Not necessarily, could be rerolling ona more populated server.

But one thing is clear. I cannot talk for the game as a whole, but I can say my server is dying. Which considering it used to be one of the more populated ones really says something.

Frankly, I think their biggest fuckup is they simply released way too many servers for this game so I get the sense may are quitting out of frustration due to being unable to group or feeling the game is lifeless. This game isn't the best for grouping to begin with because of how people get spread out and thier weakass mechanics. Throw in the fact that some of these servers simply don't have the population to justify having a separate server then it only exacerbates the issue.

It doesn't help when you have dickweeds that constantly dismiss these issues going around saying everything is fine everywhere and constantly downplaying those having these issues. Frankly, anymore I find them as much to blame for these games having retention issues and dragging their feet on fixing things as I do the companies. They're so goddamn stubborn they just muddy the waters, giving false info to new players, and false bravado to the company so some issues take way longer to be assessed and evaluated properly. They cause way more damage to these games than the haters they despise so much.

The irony is most times once their rose colored glasses fall off they either slink away without a word or become one of the bigger complainers on forums about the status of the game and its condition. Never fails...

+1 good post

patsfan32 · February 2012

The funniest thing in all of this is that on average the people saying the game is dead and guild is dying are rpublic players, while the everything is fine pop is great! crew is often Empire...

On my server i made an empire just too see how bad it is or if people are over reacting, on rep fleet 34 people on, Empire fleet 207 haha. So ya in these arguments people really need to say what side of the fense you are on cause it makes a huge difference in how you see the game.

edit: just wanted to throw in a p.s that these numbers were taken during est prime time. Cause I know people will demand that info lol

StonesDK · February 2012

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by dannydeuce

All I know is what I personally see during the game. I see my guild of about 230ish characters with 100 or so actual players considering alts. The guild has 50 or so characters that are active as in played within the past 10 days. Of those characters, a fair share are alts considering my knowledge of the people playing and the levels of the chars. From my calculations, around 50% of the guild with characters on average about level 35 have either quit, moved on to a different character/guild/server, or something else. I could make an educated guess that 25% have quit based on these numbers and conversations over vent/in game chat. This is after 1 1/2 months of play. I do not consider this a good retention rate at all and does not bode well for the longevity of this game.

Been in two guilds. Left because the on only had me and another player logging in and the other one had a decent amount logging in (low teens) but no one ever grouped together or even chatted much. Was rather pointless really. Not to mention I never saw the gm once so I gather him along with god knows how many others quit or rerolled elsewhere.

Anyways, to me what is really telling are simply the amount of players on planets and fleet. The numbers are simply dwindling down everywhere. Does that mean they're quitting completely? Not necessarily, could be rerolling ona more populated server.

But one thing is clear. I cannot talk for the game as a whole, but I can say my server is dying. Which considering it used to be one of the more populated ones really says something.

Frankly, I think their biggest fuckup is they simply released way too many servers for this game so I get the sense may are quitting out of frustration due to being unable to group or feeling the game is lifeless. This game isn't the best for grouping to begin with because of how people get spread out and thier weakass mechanics. Throw in the fact that some of these servers simply don't have the population to justify having a separate server then it only exacerbates the issue.

It doesn't help when you have dickweeds that constantly dismiss these issues going around saying everything is fine everywhere and constantly downplaying those having these issues. Frankly, anymore I find them as much to blame for these games having retention issues and dragging their feet on fixing things as I do the companies. They're so goddamn stubborn they just muddy the waters, giving false info to new players, and false bravado to the company so some issues take way longer to be assessed and evaluated properly. They cause way more damage to these games than the haters they despise so much.

The irony is most times once their rose colored glasses fall off they either slink away without a word or become one of the bigger complainers on forums about the status of the game and its condition. Never fails...

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remedy that is not to accept random invites

I could be the author of your post 5 years ago on WoWs main forums, back when I made some poor choices joining guilds going nowhere myself

Calling people dickweeds doesn't do much to help your case either. Your a posterboy for poor judgement both ingame and outside of it

Wickedjelly · February 2012

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remidy that is not to accept random invites

Not only did you clearly not read the majority of my post, but you also pretty much proved one of my points. Doubt you even realize it.

Thank you

I actually thought it would take a bit longer.

Far as what I said? If the shoe fits...

Plenty of other things you could say. Ignorant, self absorbed, etc. so what difference does it make? I mean why is it perfectly acceptable for them to equate people having problems with the game regardless the issue is somehow their incompetence or personal issue but to hold those accusers in the same light is somehow bad form?

Give me a break...

Least most of them are referring to their personal experience and not everyone as a whole. Unlike some others that make assumptions for everyone. You can chalk it up however you want and find a better word for it that you deem more 'pc' but doesn't change the type of person they come across as being least in relation to these discussions.

sanosukex · February 2012

Originally posted by Starpower

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remedy that is not to accept random invites

I could be the author of your post 5 years ago on WoWs main forums, back when I made some poor choices joining guilds going nowhere myself

many people are playing in guilds are mostly their own friends.. not much you can do when all your friends ditch the game...

StonesDK · February 2012

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Starpower

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remedy that is not to accept random invites

I could be the author of your post 5 years ago on WoWs main forums, back when I made some poor choices joining guilds going nowhere myself

many people are playing in guilds are mostly their own friends.. not much you can do when all your friends ditch the game...

Most of my gaming friends started with EQ just like myself. They all long for tha era of gaming of open worlds, camp spots and fun world pvp with consequences. They all quit except 1. All that just shows me I'm part of a group of friends who wish it was 99 again

spizz · February 2012

"Of course I will subb for at least a year...well at least until the 1st April

I think It is really obvious that Swtor is that tasty and great that I will swallow my game DVD."

"Couple of years probably"

"GW2,secret world,Tera and specially Diablo 3 is coming within next few month so not very long."

"Nothing has had more hype than TOR..."

"Have about 4 days left on my first month sub.

Enjoyed leveling but its waaaaayyyy too linear to do over again.

Probly wont re-sub since all my family decided to quit."

"Would like to stay a long time, maybe it's my server, but the questing in silence and no one ever answering you is getting to me."

"A few more months, no single player RPG could hold me longer than that except those with mods like the elder scrolls games...no amount of online capabilities like this single player game will make a difference.

Yes, I called this a single player game with online capabilities cause that is what it is. To call this an MMORPG is a slap in the face to other MMORPGs. "

"I see myself in game at least through the 6 month mark and probably a lot longer than that. Currently I have a 3-month recurring sub, which ends in April I guess (launch +4 months since month 1 was free), and I will probably at least re-up another 3 monther. I don't have even a single character capped, and I definitely want to play all 8 character slots at least on my main server.

Once all 8 characters are 50, then we will see. But since it has taken me 2 months and I'm not even close to capping character #1 yet (in part due to alt-aholism), that's going to take at least until summer, and probably more like until this time next year.

That's with the content they have right now. Assuming they put in tons of new content between now and 6-12 months from now, they'll keep me around even longer."

.....did read some answers.

BilboDoggins · February 2012

Originally posted by patsfan32
The funniest thing in all of this is that on average the people saying the game is dead and guild is dying are rpublic players, while the everything is fine pop is great! crew is often Empire...

On my server i made an empire just too see how bad it is or if people are over reacting, on rep fleet 34 people on, Empire fleet 207 haha. So ya in these arguments people really need to say what side of the fense you are on cause it makes a huge difference in how you see the game.

edit: just wanted to throw in a p.s that these numbers were taken during est prime time. Cause I know people will demand that info lol

My guild is Empire on one of the pre-order severs with one the highest population.

Of course the fleet is still going to have a ton of people because its been a month and a half since release and the majority of people are max level and stand around in the fleet most of the time. Most of the planets you lvl up with that used to have 50-200 people are like 0-20 now.

SWTOR isnt dead and it isnt dying. But anyone who claims it isn't bleeding subs is kidding themselves. SWTOR will eventually get made into a decent game and because it is SWTOR it will maintain a healthy number of people. 300k-500k is my guess. But Bioware missed their chance. If this game had been good from the outset it would have kept many more and possibly have grown. It didnt. Now it will be just another game which tried to copy WoW and beat them at their own game.

sanosukex · February 2012

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Starpower

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remedy that is not to accept random invites

I could be the author of your post 5 years ago on WoWs main forums, back when I made some poor choices joining guilds going nowhere myself

many people are playing in guilds are mostly their own friends.. not much you can do when all your friends ditch the game...

Most of my gaming friends started with EQ just like myself. They all long for tha era of gaming of open worlds, camp spots and fun world pvp with consequences. They all quit except 1. All that just shows me I'm part of a group of friends who wish it was 99 again

funny because me and several others stopped playing because many aspects of the game feel like 1999 again... also more than half my firends who played were first time MMOers and none could get past the first month.. it was for various reason but most just said they had no desire to log in..

NBlitz · February 2012

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

Originally posted by patsfan32

<>

<>300k-500k is my guess. But Bioware missed their chance. <>

Didn't BioW say that with 500k they'd be profitable? Anything below that and it's officially a bust. No?

Bunks · February 2012

Originally posted by NBlitz

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

Originally posted by patsfan32

<>

<>300k-500k is my guess. But Bioware missed their chance. <>

Didn't BioW say that with 500k they'd be profitable? Anything below that and it's officially a bust. No?

actually after the Q&A on 2/1/11 call, they said 500k to break even now and a million to be slightly profitable. (cost overuns are a bitch)

Opapanax · February 2012

Vulkars Highway, normally standard EST PVP Server..

Opapanax Empire side of course.. I've told my GM straight up to just check out The Secret World and let me know what he thinks..

We are a good sized guild. I think the count is about 85-90 members currently. Honestly there's maybe 15-20 that log on a semi-regular basis. That's minus 1 now though since I've unsubbscribbed last week and my last time in game lasted all of one warzone to test something. We also had another one of our 50's quit the week before.

The avg. number I see on Fleet is 180 - the low 200's. Well if that's correct then we either have a guild full of people that rolled alts and have them in the guild or a bunch of people simply left the game. When I go to Illum it's pure pain. Highs can be in the 60's - 70's and this is ONLY on Tues when they reset the weeklies. Others days are more than bland and finding Republics is even harder than getting one of the boxes in the middle.

There's little spurts throughout the day as to be expected; well not really expected. You EXPECT it to be busy all the time, but maybe this isn't how a majority of successful MMO's work I don't know I could be complete anti-Star Wars derp that's just trolling the shit out of a crap title that really deserves most of it. Or.. I could be telling the dead ass truth...

You decide....

I don't even want to attempt to roll a Jedi toon. Even going through the character creation process, it's just not worth it anymore to play (or at least PAY) SWTOR at this time I don't think I'll ever return to this game. The way the world is built and how closed in everything is by the "pathing" is unchangable. It's the core of their design and it will never change, so if your one of those waiting around to see if that part does evolve..

Sorry not happening..

Bioware will be merging servers in Patch 1.2.. What more information do you need about population decline. Could it be them trying to adjust the populations? - Like adding servers with more Republics to servers with more Empire.. Maybe.. But why not just cap the population and only have one faction able to be rolled? - Possibly because there just aren't enough PLAYERS in SWTOR to do that and the decline tells them that servers will never be equal even if only one side is able to be rolled.

StonesDK · February 2012

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remidy that is not to accept random invites

Not only did you clearly not read the majority of my post, but you also pretty much proved one of my points. Doubt you even realize it.

Thank you

I actually thought it would take a bit longer.

Far as what I said? If the shoe fits...

Plenty of other things you could say. Ignorant, self absorbed, etc. so what difference does it make? I mean why is it perfectly acceptable for them to equate people having problems with the game regardless the issue is somehow their incompetence or personal issue but to hold those accusers in the same light is somehow bad form?

Give me a break...

Least most of them are referring to their personal experience and not everyone as a whole. Unlike some others that make assumptions for everyone.

Look

You are allowed to have issues with the game. If you told me PvP sucks and the game is a lobby instanced hellhole. You are more than welcome to make that point to me. I won't even argue with you because you are allowed to have that view. I know there are people here who would argue against it but to me arguing against tastes and opinions about games is like competing in the special olympics

That is not what I came here to discuss. I came here to discuss if the game is declining in a rapid rate and the so called proof.

Point A. Bioware has indeed changed server caps several times both during beta and during launch. The first week where servers had queues bioware upped the cap on how many people could join to relieve the queues. That caused the server which before said "full" now to show "heavy". Did people unsubscribe after a week making room for more?: No the cap got changed. Yet people started posting graphs how "full" "very heavy" "heavy" was an indicator of people leaving. This makes graphs without any real numbers suspect at the very least.

Point B. This lends to the end of point A. Since Bioware can define and manipulate cap and what constitutes as full or heavy to suit their lets call it tinfoil hat theory of trying to manipulate you the player to believe there are more playing than there actually are. Again proves that graphs and trends from third party sites are useless.

Point C. Whatever personal experince you have with two guilds just shows poor judgement on your part. If you say that supports what you are already saying then we are in agreement. Ones personal experience with your own guild is no guideline of anything

NBlitz · February 2012

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by NBlitz

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

Originally posted by patsfan32

<>

<>300k-500k is my guess. But Bioware missed their chance. <>

Didn't BioW say that with 500k they'd be profitable? Anything below that and it's officially a bust. No?

actually after the Q&A on 2/1/11 call, they said 500k to break even now and a million to be slightly profitable. (cost overuns are a bitch)

Wow, OK, thanks.

Holy guacamole. They need to hit it out of the park.

StonesDK · February 2012

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Starpower

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remedy that is not to accept random invites

I could be the author of your post 5 years ago on WoWs main forums, back when I made some poor choices joining guilds going nowhere myself

many people are playing in guilds are mostly their own friends.. not much you can do when all your friends ditch the game...

Most of my gaming friends started with EQ just like myself. They all long for tha era of gaming of open worlds, camp spots and fun world pvp with consequences. They all quit except 1. All that just shows me I'm part of a group of friends who wish it was 99 again

funny because me and several others stopped playing because many aspects of the game feel like 1999 again... also more than half my firends who played were first time MMOers and none could get past the first month.. it was for various reason but most just said they had no desire to log in..

I'm curious to what MMO from 99 this game feels like. It would help if you name some features

Matt_UK · February 2012

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by Zlayer77
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=294210

Lots of other threads but I think this one just shows that the mayority is either leaving.. on the fence or just to blind to see what is going on...

So the majority of SWTOR players fit on 11 pages of replies to a single thread do they?

The way you put it anyone that says they might leave one day is leaving asap, and anyone that is basing their decision on other games is on the fence umming and aahing. Anyone who wants to stay and enjoy the great game that SWTOR is is blind.

I think that last fact opens your bias up for the whole forum to see.

First it was month one, and everyone predicted the end of SWTOR. Month one passed and everything is going good. The servers are still busy and people are happily enjoying the game. So now the attention turns to the end of month two.

Are we going to have a 'SWTOR is going to die' thread from people at the end of every month?

Find something better to do with your time, people. Making up trends from a few pages of replies is a sign of madness.

Here's the deal, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see what's going on with the game.    In January they sold 300K copies of the game.    That was, essentially, a 20% increase in the install base.   espite that, server traffic dropped 40% from January 7th to January 28th.   It has continuted to drop.

In February, to hide the drop in server traffic, BioWare changed the sever-status thresholds to make people think the servers were more populated than they were.

On February 1st, 3% of servers registered as heavy. 60% registered as light.

On February 2nd, 3% of servers registered as heavy. 54% registered as light.

On February 3rd, 2% of servers registered as heavy.   58% registered as light.

On February 4th, 18% of servers registered as heavy and only 32% registered as light.

On February 5th, it was 25% heavy and 31% light.

Those numbers on the 4th and 5th were barely behind peak post-holiday useage on the 7th and 8th of January.    The game had not even approached those numbers since January 15th and 16th.     Further, now the weekly load is averaging over 10% heavy and peaking at 25% on the weekends...

Sales are down. People have been clearly leaving...   Yet, (not) mysteriously the servers suddenly have bigger populations?   You believe that?   You believe an MMO that only sold 45K (or so) units the week in question can increase server population that dramatically?   Over 215 servers?    Really?

Whatever...

I'm assuming these are US servers? I play in the EU and it's a fact that on release 100% of the servers were heavy, now it's probably 1% with the rest mostly Standard with a few Light and I see more Light appearing every week. The are FACTS, make of them what you will

Matt_UK · February 2012

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by BilboDoggins
All I have to do to see this game is rapidly declining is look at my guild where we have 110 members and in the last 20 days only about 30 have logged in. Of those 30 maybe 10 play daily.

I have played many mnay MMO's and SWTOR is just lacking to many damned features, has to mnay bugs, and a boring and poorly designed endgame. I'm not telling anyone they have to dislike SWTOR but it's pretty obvious a TON of people feel the same way about it as me. Outside of the story this game has nothing new or better to offer and story offers little replayability unless you are an altaholic.

Ooohh..I can play that game too....Two weeks ago, my guild only had a little overf 100 people on average logging in - but this weekend - we had over 200!

What's your point again?

What's yours?

My God there are some fools on here. Total denial as usual from the Biodroid. I don't care, your precious game sucks, see you in GW2.

Wickedjelly · February 2012

Originally posted by Starpower
Look

You are allowed to have issues with the game. If you told me PvP sucks and the game is a lobby instanced hellhole. You are more than welcome to make that point to me. I won't even argue with you because you are allowed to have that view. I know there are people here who would argue against it but to me arguing against tastes and opinions about games is like competing in the special olympics

That is not what I came here to discuss. I came here to discuss if the game is declining in a rapid rate and the so called proof.

Point A. Bioware has indeed changed server caps several times both during beta and during launch. The first week where servers had queues bioware upped the cap on how many people could join to relieve the queues. That caused the server which before said "full" now to show "heavy". Did people unsubscribe after a week making room for more?: No the cap got changed. Yet people started posting graphs how "full" "very heavy" "heavy" was an indicator of people leaving. This makes graphs without any real numbers suspect at the very least.

Point B. This lends to the end of point A. Since Bioware can define and manipulate cap and what constitutes as full or heavy to suit their lets call it tinfoil hat theory of trying to manipulate you the player to believe there are more playing than there actually are. Again proves that graphs and trends from third party sites are useless.

Point C. Whatever personal experince you have with two guilds just shows poor judgement on your part. If you say that supports what you are already saying then we are in agreement. Ones personal experience with your own guild is no guideline of anything

Point B.

I don't know why you're so stuck on the guild thing. Only reason I mentioned it was to relate my experiences with the poster I quoted. Wasn't trying to prove anything with that bit so not sure why you keep bringing it up.

My opinions as to the state of the server is what I see in game on planets, fleet, and talking to others. Has nothing to do with my guild experiences.

...and its just my server. As I said I cannot speak to the state of the game as a whole. I have no idea outside what I have seen on the two servers I have played on.

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dosen't look to Optimistic over at the offical forums

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