OP and his/her type of gamer is why MMO's are crap.IMOP (my opinion,i am not saying its true but to me it is!)
Anyone who can't be arsed reading text at least the 1st time you do the quest with a toon is the reason why games are like they are.Fast easy single play to level cap.And quick leveling too.New mmo's are all this way because there are more brainless people playing them than in the past.
It goes as far as crafting too,most games are turn 1000 tin clusters to 500 tin bars,500 tin bars - 250 tin boots and so on without you having to be even at your keyboard. Its a joke and I for one am sick of it!
What is up with the TOR/Tera comparisons? TOR is a linear single path, phased, non action combat themepark based on a old graphics engine. It is insane to try and compare very much in Tera to TOR.
With Tera, I can only seem to enjoy it for 2-3 hours max at best. after that it becomes too repetitive
with SWTOR, despite the simple combat mechanics, I look forward to the storyline/new planet and twist/turns
this could be because I'm playing on a republic side and going berserk, but nevertheless, it's a lot more fun at the moment
I think SWTOR is an MMO i've enjoyed longer than most so far, on par with Eve Online, which I still play too, Asheron's call which I played for years and Darkfall, which though I like a lot, I could never play too much because of the crappy crowd..oh wait I'm forgetting WURM hehe.
they're all different, but they all had something nice and unique to offer, soemthing that held me in the game. SWTOR has that too. Tera has combat, but it's not as much fun if you do it for hours on end. you basically repeat the same combos over and over, on 1000s of monsters, so it does get repetitive
How could anyone pick grind as the right word for this. NOT a single game in the last 7 Years was a Grinder not even Aion u fools. I love how ppl forgot old games were u played 6 months or even a year to get max level. Nowdays you are in 1 month max level and everyone is crying grind. Go back to CS and single rpg kids.
I remember those days.. It gave you a great sense of accomplishment when you dinged and there were only a few high lvl characters, which made a very tight community. I also hated that I had to spend 2 weeks for 10-20% of a level. A compromise inbetween would have been nice but, we're too spoiled now a days to do any real grinding(Mob or Quest)
Aion was extremely grindy, it punished you for grouping.. I was grouped with my wife and it took way longer playing with my wife than it did playing alone... there was no real benefit to being in a group. Not everyone who plays MMORPGS are in it to play with a bunch of socially akward nerds. The people crying to go back to Counterstrike are as bad or if not worse than people whining about grinding.
Well in TERA you get bonus exp for grouping and you can't really do a lot of the elite monster(BAM quests) alone unless you're quite skilled and have patience(or just like a challenge). So I found myself grouped for level 18-22 both times I did it and even afterwards just grinding BAMs for...fun?
haven't played tera yet,but Starwars was flacid in areas of game play and leveling.
I do miss the old EQ days back in 2000. It was a comfortable medium between asian MMO and US mmo in comparison to today's games.
Wow seems geared towards 12-14 year old attention spans per how easy it is. WOW was fun in it's 1st 2 years per leveling and questing and content,it too is a flacid game to me now.
I am unsure if I will try tera, based on any reviews I have read or the sites info,but it also appears to be a low attention span targetted game.
Thanks for the read
If you're looking for an experience more akin to EQ1 than modern theme parks I suggest you check out FFXIV. No, I'm not kidding. It's actually pretty good now.
Thanks for the comparison. I had been flirting with the idea of picking up Tera but if its just another loot treadmill (with flashy combat) I'm going to pass.
FFXIV is barely any different now than it was at launch, and is NOTHING like EQ.
I understand if you like the game and want to get more people in those empty servers, but at least set a realistic expectation.
I agree with the OP. And I'll take engaging combat over engaging story any day. I actually rolled every single class and cleared the starter island this weekend trying to decide what to play at release. I'm usually not into melee but had a great time with the Warrior and Slayer combat! And I hate playing healer but LOVED the Priest, at least up to level. I'm going to take the Priest up to level 22 during the next CB and see how it feels.
Grind is definitely the wrong word to use for games you can max level in a month tops. If you got to 22 in Tera in a weekend it doesn't seem that you or anyone else could cry about too much "grind", same with SWTOR.
I will say TERA's combat system is horrific (you have to stop to cast an instant...no thanks).
Go play a console game....they're even more shallow and you can finish those in a weekend.
I will say TERA's combat system is horrific (you have to stop to cast an instant...no thanks).
To each there own, it's absolutely terrific in my opinion. Especially when you get higher levels and get glyphs to change certain spells or combo-chains to activate them quicker. Plus with the variety in skills later on it makes for better combat as you only look for opportunities to use your wind up attacks that lock you in place rather than quicker attacks.
In other words it means you actually have to "think" about what you're doing which might be a little too much for most people. Becuase using a wind up/animation locked skill at certain times will cause you to die, other times it works great.
If a game is a combat game, it will ALWAYS have "Kill X". Back before there were quests, MMO's were STILL largely about killing X, it's just that you did it solely for XP and/or resources.
So, if you're tired of "Kill X", then just admit that you're tired of combat based MMO's and retire from them.
Sure, TOR's quests more often than not lead me to a situation in which I have to "kill X" to achieve an objective. If I have to infiltrate a base to click on some node somewhere, there's likely to be mobs peppered throughout the place which can't be avoided. But still, I'd rather there be SOME supposed reason to do it other than, "I'm here, so I should just kill stuff to get XP and gold".
I haven't tried Tera yet. But I've heard the phrase "breath of fresh air" to describe alot of things. Including TOR's 4th pillar.
I'll reserve judgment on Tera til' open beta. I don't suspect it will be my cup of tea; seems a bit too anime cutesy from what I've seen, which also turned me off from Aion... but we'll see.
SWTOR is better when it comes to the questing. Endgame sucks in swtor though. But I really enjoyed level 1-50, after that the game just died in my eyes. I wanted to play alot of pvp but big battles in swtor equals huge lag. Around 4-7 fps is not playable in pvp or pve for that matter. Swtor is definetly the least grinding mmo game I played. One char max level 50 and battlemaster level 63 valor, and 3 level 26.
TERA questing was really boring, and the NPC´s where just anoying so I turned of sounds for them. Pvp seemed fun, didnt get to try it much only for dueling. What I found out with the duels was that if youre melee vs range you lose. Tera was very different in playstyle. But alot of it looked like Aion: the icons on the skills,crafting system, map, inventory and some others even same font as Aion. Got to level 22 in beta which was max though. Questing was kill X mobs which I think is boring boring boring!
I bought swtor, not playing it much longer, doing daily pvp for the battlemaster parts I am missing for full.
I preordered Tera digital mini just for the beta test, dont think I will be playing it on release though.
I understand what the OP is saying but it would only be fare if he also mentions the world and how the two games run.Tera's world is open and seemless,swtor is a instance box and actually pretty bad when it comes to world design.I never felt like i was in a vast open world in SWTOR but in Tera you do.
On top of that,Tera runs way better than swtor ever did.
Tera does not have the voice overs but it has politics which will come into play,if only swtor had a similar system.The combat and world win it for me when comparing the two games.When attacking a mob in Tera you really feel like you have hit it,especially playing a melee class.
Tera also takes a while to warm up.Up until level 20ish the mobs are very easy but once BAM come into play it's a whole different stories.
Tera 8
SWTOR 5
Ask yourself this question: if you knew nothing about the history of either game,which one would you think had $200 Million spent on it.
If SWTOR had released by any other dev team and not published by EA it would get laughed out of the ball park.
I've played SWTOR up to level 50, and Tera up to 22. Let me tell you something about them straight off the bat, they are both "grind" games of "kill x" and "collect x", or "kill named mob". Anyone telling you different is delusional. SWTOR's 90 percent of quests are like this, and Tera is 100%. But, what these games do is offer you that same old grind in two different flavors.
SWTOR tries to make you care about "killing x" by offering a story wrapped around it, with voice overs to add to the immersion. Even though the quest is still "kill x", you would, supposedly, want to do it because you want to see how the story unfolds. In my opinion, this is mostly true for the unique class quest storylines. However, the side quests I found to be quite repetitive after the first few worlds. They all boil down to the same basic plots (i.e. "mean guys did something mean to me, kill them", "I'm too lazy or scared to go fetch this, you do it").
Tera's quests are a simple excuse to grind. That's it. But while SWTOR gives you "story" slapped on them, Tera gives you combat. Here's the thing, I didn't read quest text, I didn't watch cutscenes; I didn't care about them. BUT, the combat is fun; it's refreshing. The combat is what makes Tera different. I cannot say how it'll be in the future at higher levels, but as of right now Tera makes me want to do the quests because I want to kill mobs; and I want to kill mobs because I want to keep experiencing the combat.
Both these games are more similar than most would believe; they are both themepark grinds. But they offer that grind in different platters.
Kinda shallow. A grind? That can be said about most mmo's. I mean, even Guild Wars 2 "dynamic events" are a grind. Even if someone says, defend the town from an onslaught, rather then kill x, it's still a grind. It's the nature of an MMO.
The combat in these two games could not be more different. So why compare them and say they're both a "grind". All mmo's will be in some way.
The pvp in Tera remains to be seen, but from the sould of the politcal system, no factions and open world pvp, it sould A LOT different then TOR. You shouldn't confuse people into thinking these games are that similar based on your interpretation of a "grind". As I said, show me an MMO without one?
Ask yourself this question: if you knew nothing about the history of either game,which one would you think had $200 Million spent on it.
If SWTOR had released by any other dev team and not published by EA it would get laughed out of the ball park.
I couldn't agree more, I love the story and VO approach, and I wish that content was in TERA, but when I look at the world around me and the characters in TERA I constantly think "why did SWTOR look like a bag of ass?"
I think it’s too early for any real complete comparisons, we still haven’t seen the majority of TERA's leveling content, pvp, endgame or the stuff they are still working on such as the fabled dynamic content and SvSvS, but to talk of grind in either case is to miss the point of each, in SWTOR the story can tie you over between combat, and in TERA you don't need any story as the combat is actually fun.
Ask yourself this question: if you knew nothing about the history of either game,which one would you think had $200 Million spent on it.
If SWTOR had released by any other dev team and not published by EA it would get laughed out of the ball park.
I couldn't agree more, I love the story and VO approach, and I wish that content was in TERA, but when I look at the world around me and the characters in TERA I constantly think "why did SWTOR look like a bag of ass?"
I think it’s too early for any real complete comparisons, we still haven’t seen the majority of TERA's leveling content, pvp, endgame or the stuff they are still working on such as the fabled dynamic content and SvSvS, but to talk of grind in either case is to miss the point of each, in SWTOR the story can tie you over between combat, and in TERA you don't need any story as the combat is actually fun.
I don't agree with you about SW:ToR VO's, I found them very annoying after 1d/played. But that's offtopic.
I'm looking forward to the combat mechanics too. I really wish hand-eye-coordination will play a factor in combat instead of just being a gimmick.
haven't played tera yet,but Starwars was flacid in areas of game play and leveling.
I do miss the old EQ days back in 2000. It was a comfortable medium between asian MMO and US mmo in comparison to today's games.
Wow seems geared towards 12-14 year old attention spans per how easy it is. WOW was fun in it's 1st 2 years per leveling and questing and content,it too is a flacid game to me now.
I am unsure if I will try tera, based on any reviews I have read or the sites info,but it also appears to be a low attention span targetted game.
Thanks for the read
If you're looking for an experience more akin to EQ1 than modern theme parks I suggest you check out FFXIV. No, I'm not kidding. It's actually pretty good now.
Thanks for the comparison. I had been flirting with the idea of picking up Tera but if its just another loot treadmill (with flashy combat) I'm going to pass.
No way is FFXIV anything like EQ.I found the game to have good graphics but crap game-play with the quest system and the world is not very well laid out either.
If you want to compare EQ1 to a game running now then Vanguard wins hands down,it poops all over FFXIV.
haven't played tera yet,but Starwars was flacid in areas of game play and leveling.
I do miss the old EQ days back in 2000. It was a comfortable medium between asian MMO and US mmo in comparison to today's games.
Wow seems geared towards 12-14 year old attention spans per how easy it is. WOW was fun in it's 1st 2 years per leveling and questing and content,it too is a flacid game to me now.
I am unsure if I will try tera, based on any reviews I have read or the sites info,but it also appears to be a low attention span targetted game.
Thanks for the read
If you're looking for an experience more akin to EQ1 than modern theme parks I suggest you check out FFXIV. No, I'm not kidding. It's actually pretty good now.
Thanks for the comparison. I had been flirting with the idea of picking up Tera but if its just another loot treadmill (with flashy combat) I'm going to pass.
No way is FFXIV anything like EQ.I found the game to have good graphics but crap game-play with the quest system and the world is not very well laid out either.
If you want to compare EQ1 to a game running now then Vanguard wins hands down,it poops all over FFXIV.
Vanguard is good, but at the same time, there's no one playing. Last time I was on, there was prolly 200 people on... and I mean at all. I spent 80 bucks on the Collectors Ed. when the game dropped in January 2008, and was burned badly by a partly finished, buggy mess of a game. Now, FFXIV did precisely the same thing, but at least they are working hard to fix it. Sony has all but abandoned Vanguard. It has a skeleton staff that last I heard is putting out an update every year and a half or so.
Also, if anyone is going to try FFXIV, I would wait until after 2.0 - which I think is going to be november. The game is undergoing so many changes, it will have a new client. Different engine, changed world... it will finally be what it should have been.
but at least they are working hard to fix it. Sony has all but abandoned Vanguard. It has a skeleton staff that last I heard is putting out an update every year and a half or so.
Yeah, just ignore the fact that SoE spent almost two years trying to fix the game despite a dwindling population. SoE did work hard, and they did fix it mostly, but ultimately no one cared.
And SoE does not have anywhere close to the resources Square Enix has. They *should* since its a division of Sony, but its a division of Sony that Sony doesnt care about, at all.
ÄYeah, TOR is focused on the story, TERA on killing stuff.
So what? it is good that somegames focus on different things. TERAs combat actually felt really refreshing after tab killing things. AoC tried a bit of the same as TERA but think TERA did a better job, at least for the melee combat.
the only thing mmos really focus on is making $
It might take a while for developers to realize but, what is needed is an mmo with an open decision engine with no quests where you create your story but, even then people would complain about no quests and no story.....
Comments
Every MMORPG has some kind of grind, they are suppose to be a big time sink thats the idea behind them...
I guess the game you like is down to the type of grind you like
Me i loved the Character development in Darkfall others hated it calling it a massive grind.. i called it fun
OP and his/her type of gamer is why MMO's are crap.IMOP (my opinion,i am not saying its true but to me it is!)
Anyone who can't be arsed reading text at least the 1st time you do the quest with a toon is the reason why games are like they are.Fast easy single play to level cap.And quick leveling too.New mmo's are all this way because there are more brainless people playing them than in the past.
It goes as far as crafting too,most games are turn 1000 tin clusters to 500 tin bars,500 tin bars - 250 tin boots and so on without you having to be even at your keyboard. Its a joke and I for one am sick of it!
What is up with the TOR/Tera comparisons? TOR is a linear single path, phased, non action combat themepark based on a old graphics engine. It is insane to try and compare very much in Tera to TOR.
I spent about 40 hours total playing Tera
I've been playing SWTOR a lot more now
With Tera, I can only seem to enjoy it for 2-3 hours max at best. after that it becomes too repetitive
with SWTOR, despite the simple combat mechanics, I look forward to the storyline/new planet and twist/turns
this could be because I'm playing on a republic side and going berserk, but nevertheless, it's a lot more fun at the moment
I think SWTOR is an MMO i've enjoyed longer than most so far, on par with Eve Online, which I still play too, Asheron's call which I played for years and Darkfall, which though I like a lot, I could never play too much because of the crappy crowd..oh wait I'm forgetting WURM hehe.
they're all different, but they all had something nice and unique to offer, soemthing that held me in the game. SWTOR has that too. Tera has combat, but it's not as much fun if you do it for hours on end. you basically repeat the same combos over and over, on 1000s of monsters, so it does get repetitive
I review lots of indie games and MMORPGs
Well in TERA you get bonus exp for grouping and you can't really do a lot of the elite monster(BAM quests) alone unless you're quite skilled and have patience(or just like a challenge). So I found myself grouped for level 18-22 both times I did it and even afterwards just grinding BAMs for...fun?
FFXIV is barely any different now than it was at launch, and is NOTHING like EQ.
I understand if you like the game and want to get more people in those empty servers, but at least set a realistic expectation.
I agree with the OP. And I'll take engaging combat over engaging story any day. I actually rolled every single class and cleared the starter island this weekend trying to decide what to play at release. I'm usually not into melee but had a great time with the Warrior and Slayer combat! And I hate playing healer but LOVED the Priest, at least up to level. I'm going to take the Priest up to level 22 during the next CB and see how it feels.
Tera > TOR
Grind is definitely the wrong word to use for games you can max level in a month tops. If you got to 22 in Tera in a weekend it doesn't seem that you or anyone else could cry about too much "grind", same with SWTOR.
I will say TERA's combat system is horrific (you have to stop to cast an instant...no thanks).
Go play a console game....they're even more shallow and you can finish those in a weekend.
To each there own, it's absolutely terrific in my opinion. Especially when you get higher levels and get glyphs to change certain spells or combo-chains to activate them quicker. Plus with the variety in skills later on it makes for better combat as you only look for opportunities to use your wind up attacks that lock you in place rather than quicker attacks.
In other words it means you actually have to "think" about what you're doing which might be a little too much for most people. Becuase using a wind up/animation locked skill at certain times will cause you to die, other times it works great.
Just a couple things.
If a game is a combat game, it will ALWAYS have "Kill X". Back before there were quests, MMO's were STILL largely about killing X, it's just that you did it solely for XP and/or resources.
So, if you're tired of "Kill X", then just admit that you're tired of combat based MMO's and retire from them.
Sure, TOR's quests more often than not lead me to a situation in which I have to "kill X" to achieve an objective. If I have to infiltrate a base to click on some node somewhere, there's likely to be mobs peppered throughout the place which can't be avoided. But still, I'd rather there be SOME supposed reason to do it other than, "I'm here, so I should just kill stuff to get XP and gold".
I haven't tried Tera yet. But I've heard the phrase "breath of fresh air" to describe alot of things. Including TOR's 4th pillar.
I'll reserve judgment on Tera til' open beta. I don't suspect it will be my cup of tea; seems a bit too anime cutesy from what I've seen, which also turned me off from Aion... but we'll see.
SWTOR is better when it comes to the questing. Endgame sucks in swtor though. But I really enjoyed level 1-50, after that the game just died in my eyes. I wanted to play alot of pvp but big battles in swtor equals huge lag. Around 4-7 fps is not playable in pvp or pve for that matter. Swtor is definetly the least grinding mmo game I played. One char max level 50 and battlemaster level 63 valor, and 3 level 26.
TERA questing was really boring, and the NPC´s where just anoying so I turned of sounds for them. Pvp seemed fun, didnt get to try it much only for dueling. What I found out with the duels was that if youre melee vs range you lose. Tera was very different in playstyle. But alot of it looked like Aion: the icons on the skills,crafting system, map, inventory and some others even same font as Aion. Got to level 22 in beta which was max though. Questing was kill X mobs which I think is boring boring boring!
I bought swtor, not playing it much longer, doing daily pvp for the battlemaster parts I am missing for full.
I preordered Tera digital mini just for the beta test, dont think I will be playing it on release though.
I understand what the OP is saying but it would only be fare if he also mentions the world and how the two games run.Tera's world is open and seemless,swtor is a instance box and actually pretty bad when it comes to world design.I never felt like i was in a vast open world in SWTOR but in Tera you do.
On top of that,Tera runs way better than swtor ever did.
Tera does not have the voice overs but it has politics which will come into play,if only swtor had a similar system.The combat and world win it for me when comparing the two games.When attacking a mob in Tera you really feel like you have hit it,especially playing a melee class.
Tera also takes a while to warm up.Up until level 20ish the mobs are very easy but once BAM come into play it's a whole different stories.
Tera 8
SWTOR 5
Ask yourself this question: if you knew nothing about the history of either game,which one would you think had $200 Million spent on it.
If SWTOR had released by any other dev team and not published by EA it would get laughed out of the ball park.
Kinda shallow. A grind? That can be said about most mmo's. I mean, even Guild Wars 2 "dynamic events" are a grind. Even if someone says, defend the town from an onslaught, rather then kill x, it's still a grind. It's the nature of an MMO.
The combat in these two games could not be more different. So why compare them and say they're both a "grind". All mmo's will be in some way.
The pvp in Tera remains to be seen, but from the sould of the politcal system, no factions and open world pvp, it sould A LOT different then TOR. You shouldn't confuse people into thinking these games are that similar based on your interpretation of a "grind". As I said, show me an MMO without one?
I couldn't agree more, I love the story and VO approach, and I wish that content was in TERA, but when I look at the world around me and the characters in TERA I constantly think "why did SWTOR look like a bag of ass?"
I think it’s too early for any real complete comparisons, we still haven’t seen the majority of TERA's leveling content, pvp, endgame or the stuff they are still working on such as the fabled dynamic content and SvSvS, but to talk of grind in either case is to miss the point of each, in SWTOR the story can tie you over between combat, and in TERA you don't need any story as the combat is actually fun.
I don't agree with you about SW:ToR VO's, I found them very annoying after 1d/played. But that's offtopic.
I'm looking forward to the combat mechanics too. I really wish hand-eye-coordination will play a factor in combat instead of just being a gimmick.
No way is FFXIV anything like EQ.I found the game to have good graphics but crap game-play with the quest system and the world is not very well laid out either.
If you want to compare EQ1 to a game running now then Vanguard wins hands down,it poops all over FFXIV.
Aren't kill this or fetch that the most common objectives in all genres?
The difference is the presentation, that's all. It defines the quality of a any game. I am glad you (op) realized it.
If they don't show you with big circles and arrows where to go to kill X then I don't care about the grind.
I don't know how they did in this game, perhaps someone can tell me?
Do they hold your hand for every quest? Any signs on the map where to go?
Vanguard is good, but at the same time, there's no one playing. Last time I was on, there was prolly 200 people on... and I mean at all. I spent 80 bucks on the Collectors Ed. when the game dropped in January 2008, and was burned badly by a partly finished, buggy mess of a game. Now, FFXIV did precisely the same thing, but at least they are working hard to fix it. Sony has all but abandoned Vanguard. It has a skeleton staff that last I heard is putting out an update every year and a half or so.
Also, if anyone is going to try FFXIV, I would wait until after 2.0 - which I think is going to be november. The game is undergoing so many changes, it will have a new client. Different engine, changed world... it will finally be what it should have been.
Yeah, just ignore the fact that SoE spent almost two years trying to fix the game despite a dwindling population. SoE did work hard, and they did fix it mostly, but ultimately no one cared.
And SoE does not have anywhere close to the resources Square Enix has. They *should* since its a division of Sony, but its a division of Sony that Sony doesnt care about, at all.
the only thing mmos really focus on is making $
It might take a while for developers to realize but, what is needed is an mmo with an open decision engine with no quests where you create your story but, even then people would complain about no quests and no story.....