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EVE Online: A Truly Stellar Council
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
In today's One Jump Home column, we explore the uniqueness of the EVE Online Council of Stellar Management.
One of the ultimate personifications of EVE Online's political meta-element is where the game laps the shores of reality, this entity is known as the Council of Stellar Management, and it has evolved to become of the most important avenues in the dialogue between CCP Games and EVE Online's general player-base. If we can imagine EVE Online as a pocket reality, then the CSM effectively has the job of petitioning the very builders of that reality for changes that they and hopefully the community can agree are for the betterment of the greater EVE society. In effect, the CSM is responsible for petitioning 'God' with the concerns of the mortals who make a home in God's reality.
Read more of Ross McDermott's One Jump Home: A Truly Stellar Council.
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Comments
When the community is producing white noise of conflicting opinions on an issue, is it really healthy for the CSM to be imposing a direction? My concern for the institution is that when it starts to see itself as a decision-making body, it becomes an invitation for metagaming and well-organized minorities to make the politics outside of the game itself a part of their gameplay.
I too fear the metagaming opportunity that the CSM could become. When you look at one of the big alliances that is trying to gain more control of it, it makes you wonder what direction it will wind up going in.
Some animals are more equal than others?! Sounds awesome.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
CSM6 is a shame and the worst CSM in history, there is no doubt about it.
Unfortunately CSM6 members took an opportunity of CCP momentarily weakness to turn CSM into something it was never meant to be. CCP is so much out of touch with their game and lacking competent developers that they indeed not only allowed but actively helped the process...
There is little hope for brigther tomorrows for EVE and I do not expect EVE population to rise again any time soon...if ever..
Your concern is a common one, and it was raised by Jessica Mulligan at Fanfest 2007 in the panel on the CSM. Here's my take on that:
Jessica Mulligan’s Pink Ponies are Real
Jessica presented a scenario that may seem farfetched, but anyone who has played MMOs for a while can attest is a very real possibility and something to be prepared for. What if several creative and determined individuals started a push to turn all of the ships into Pink Ponies? The panel goes through all the motions, does all the paperwork, and completes all the requested tasks - in the end, they bring forth everything necessary to put in the request to change all ships into Pink Ponies.
Do you tell them “No, you cannot have all ships turned into pink ponies?” This is the spot where I don’t feel the discussion really made the headway it should have, as it became wrapped up in this being the final step - the place where the devs either stamp APPROVED or HELL NO on the paperwork. Bartle presented that to say NO at this point is to paint the whole thing as a facade. To say YES is even worse.
Hilmar tried to briefly explain where things go from there, but he didn’t press the issue. The issue got stuck on “Do you say Yes or do you say No?”
The Pink Ponies are a perfect example of how the Council of Stellar Management will be an asset to the EVE Community. The important information gained from the Council of Stellar Management isn’t so much the offered solution as it is identification of an actual issue and the reasons for it.
If the players want Pink Ponies, the documentation and discussion will show why, because players aren’t asking for pink ponies - they are asking for a concern to be addressed and pink ponies is the best solution that they came up with. Maybe the problem is that players are sick of several years of just rust and grey as the only two ship colors. Maybe they are looking for more levity in the game. Maybe pink ponies are all the rage right now and people simply want them everywhere. By the process of the Council, these concerns and wants are identified and expanded upon. In the event that “all ships need to be pink ponies” turns out to be their solution, the devs can offer alternate solutions to the problem based on why they asked for the particular solution. They’re sick of the grey and rust? Maybe more colorful textures on ships is a viable solution. Maybe ship dyes are a solution. The game lacks levity? Maybe a module that allows you to turn your ship into a pink pony when fitted and activated is the solution. Maybe a “pink pony event” where all ships are pink ponies temporarily or some other such nonsense is the solution.
Whatever the case may be, there are issues and problems that the players want resolved. The CSM provides a structured manner in which they can be identified and documented and, as a result, more than likely properly solved. It is system where both players and devs can work together to improve our game world and virtual community, and I really believe it is the next step in productive interaction with a virtual world community. (source)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
On a MUD I played, I took the position of a council member (elected by the playerbase) that served to handle a certain type of player dispute. The game is a permadeath PvP game, but RP enforced, so if a player felt that their killer broke rules and guidelines laid out for killing a player, then they could submit a character restore appeal to the council and we would investigate (individually) and then pass judgment (as a group).
To aid us in this task, we were given access to special tools not given to normal players. We were allowed to use certain commands that could be used to obtain information like who killed who, which players played which characters, what secrets a certain character could be hiding, etc. We had access to a 'syslog' - the MUD's log of every single command that is written by players, easily searchable by character name (For those who do not know how muds work, every action you take must be a command of some sort).
And that isn't mentioning the fact that being part of this council had us naturally exposed to all these juicy RP secrets. We were allowed to still play regular characters, and we were given an exception to the multiplaying rule - we could have our council character and one regular character connected at any time, whereas other players could only connect with one character. There were many written rules that tried to deter us from using any of the tools / information we had for purposes other than the council's role, but in the end, they all amounted to one thing: we were being trusted to not do bad stuff.
Remember that this game is RP enforced and information like this was the stuff in-game intrigue was made of. Naturally, certain unscrupulous players abused their positions in this council and things got leaked. 'Certain' characters in-game suddenly got a lot smarter and this spoiled the game for players who made it their character concept to use disguises and alternate identities or to play spies. Other players went a bit deeper with this power and used the syslogs to dig up dirt against other players that they simply did not like. And some were too tied to their specific clique to be balanced - making sure that all of their friends got favorable restoration votes and doctored investigations, while their enemies never had a chance.
The council still exists, but there are a lot of checks against them now, and they don't have nearly as much power as they once did. They are constantly being watched by real staff - it's clear that the staff has a pretty pessimistic attitude towards the behavior of the council, especially ones that have never been a part of the council before (re-election every other term is possible) or those who had a dirty background. And it's all understandable, because of how much power these players still have and how much damage they can cause to the game.
Because these elected members are avid players of the game, it's a gamble taking any of them in and giving them access to the tools and information needed for their job. But without them, the staff would be burdened and would have to look to 'hiring' (the game is completely free and run by hobbyists and volunteers) new staff just to run things. Staff for MUDs are most always recruited from the actual players, and staff are given even more power and information than this council, so the problems stay the same no matter which way it goes.
This is really long now, but my opinion is that it's a good idea to keep a close eye on people who have a lot of effect on your game, no matter what purpose they serve.
Sadly, that is not how CCP nor CSM operate these days as CSM gained unjustified, unreasonable weight in development process lately.
CCP development strategy now is bending - being it CSM or just whoever is the loudest...
Have people forgotten how the CSM first came about? It was a smokescreen to try and give the illusion of transparency and oversight after the CCP developer t20 was caught giving favors and free t2 blueprints (at that time a valuable and limited commodity) to his buddies in an alliance. Is it any surprise that it is showing infiltration of politicking and old boys network and other shady dealings? The dysfunctional corrupt culture at CCP practically encourages and lauds such behavior.
Unfortunatly, this is the truth about this game and company. It has been seen time and again that this single shard world, with real world consequences, is not run in an impartial way.
That the CSM is being touted as some sort of balancing body against the hypocritical, nepotistical and dictatorial nature of CCP is comical.
Add into this the introduction of a cash-shop "by stealth", I refer to the PLEX system of RMT, and the failure of the attempted cash-grab by way of the expansion of a cash shop into this highly competitive PvP game with in-game perminant asset loss really does, at least for me, put this game at more than barge-pole length away.
If you can work yourself up to the point where these words escape your fingers, I think it's time to take a step back, go out for a walk and ask yourself if you are taking the game too seriously.
The CSM was brought into being purely as a smokescreen to try and mollify a playerbase that was in apoplexy due to the corruption that was revealed, denied, then admitted to on a much smaller scale.
It worked, to many players disgust, and then was ignored.
It's been rolled out again as some mythical player champion, when it was nothing more than a mouthpiece to be conveniently ignored, though trumpeted in the media as a wonderful development by CCP.
It's only because CCP communications are so dire, their decision making so flawed, and that they REALLY dropped the ball with Aurum and Barbies-In-Space resulting in riots and a massive hike in sub cancellations, that the CSM and the playerbase now actually have a voice that IS listened to.
The results, in the last patches, are plain to see.
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Pay-to-Win / F2P will be the death of real gaming, Boycott it !!
Basically the CSM is a bad idea. CCP had good intentions with this, but in the end failed to grasp the problems they would end up having with the panel.
The CSM panel is mostly made up of players from major Alliances. First off most of these alliances like the old way of doing things and don't really want to change much unless it benefits them. Secondly, you are talking about 20-25% of the playerbase, not even close to a majority. Thirdly most of these players spend their time in 0.0 or low sec.
It is good to know that CCP is getting advice from the veteran players, but they also have to put that into perspective that they really only represent just a small segment of the playerbase.
If you have the opinion that CCP is corrupt you have been played. They probably spend more time listening to their audience than any developer out there. The minor issues over the years have been majorly overblown by a very small cadre of disallusioned players. Listening to these screamers basically says you can't think and reason on your own.
CSM is currently the hottest metagaming tool for "hardcore" EVE players.
It is telling just how much time has passed since the creation of the CSM as more and more people appear to have forgotten the events that lead to its creation; a little too close ties between a specific group of hardcore EVE players, their interests and a few CCP developers.
And now, the CSM is new channel for the exact same metagaming.
No, people did not. CSM was never meant to be what you are describing.
What you talk about is Internal Affairs dept., not CSM.
CSM has never been as potent as the CSM members think. The biggest change in direction, as of late, was because of a player movement but CSM was ready and waiting for the oportunity to claim responsibility. All I really see in this column is another CSM member thinking they matter more than the monkeys before.
It appears you don't know your history.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/arts/07eve.html
The relevant part is quoted:
So now, in a sociological twist, the company that makes Eve, CCP, based in Iceland (population 300,000), says it will tackle the problem the way a democracy would. In what appears to be a first, the company plans to hold elections so that players can select members of an oversight committee.
The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCP’s operations and report back to their player-constituents. And taking cues from transitions to democracy in the developing world, CCP says it will call in election monitors from universities in Europe and the United States.
“Perception is reality, and if a substantial part of our community feels like we are biased, whether it is true or not, it is true to them,” Hilmar Petursson, CCP’s chief executive, said in a telephone interview. “Eve Online is not a computer game. It is an emerging nation, and we have to address it like a nation being accused of corruption.
“A government can’t just keep saying, ‘We are not corrupt.’ No one will believe them. Instead you have to create transparency and robust institutions and oversight in order to maintain the confidence of the population.”
The above clearly shows the original intent of CSM was to give the illusion of transparency given "Internal Affairs" lacking credibility. Is it any wonder that Internal Affairs has always exonerated and claimed CCP were innocent of any wrongdoing every time since it was established? The employees are investigating the same people and company that pays them. There is a vested interest in reporting innocence.
Words aside, the committee was never ever set up as an oversight committee, if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Just because some journalist said so does not make it so. They tend to exaggerate to inflate the importance of the article.
Yes, Hilmar was speaking of plans for an audit team in that interview.
No, that is not the Council of Stellar Management. My writeup linked earlier in this thread describes the CSM.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The article I linked earlier is from four months after the NYT article you are quoting. The CSM as it currently exists was announced 4 months after that. To the best of my knowledge, since then... the core purpose of it has remained relatively unchanged.
It's entirely possible I'm wrong on that. If so, please post links to where the CSM changed changed in intent or purpose.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
CSM was never meant to be an audit team, sorry.
You seem to be misunderstanding the point. The sequence of events was:
1. Developer cheating confirmed and big uproar
2. CSM idea proposed to be an audit team to show transparency and fairness
3. Uproar dies down
4. By the time of actual implementation of CSM, no mention of auditing is made and hasn't been made since the cheating uproar died down.
The whole reason why a CSM arose in the first place was supposedly to be an outside check on cheating, yet once the problem seemed to have been settled, CCP then quietly dropped that. The fact so many people seem to be unaware that it was originally to audit shows the strategy: don't mention it and hope people forget and newbies don't inquire
CSM has only ever existed as a smokescreen to distract from whatever the latest issue is and so that CCP can then say "See? We are listening"
Again, can you link to where it was said the CSM was intended for that? You seem to be making this leap that because the idea of one originalted before the implementationof the other that the first has anything to do with the second, despite the completely unrelated purpose, design and focus of the two.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
CSM was created to soften/divert the PR nightmare of the T2 scandle. For years it was nothing short of a joke, it's only gotten more attn because of the recent player backlash which CSM took full PR advantage of stating how they got the developers to listen.
It's a bunch of crap.
They are more organized now and are utilized more for filtering through the loads of suggestions and such from players into coherant suggestions for the developers.
Did you actually read the article in full?
“I envision this council being made up of nine members selected by the players themselves, where you announce your candidacy, and if you win the election, they come here to Iceland, and they can look at every nook and cranny and get to see that we are here to run this company on a professional basis,” said Mr. Petursson, CCP’s chief executive. “They can see that we did not make this game to win it.”
No gyrating or reaching for excuses of it being merely a journalist, as this is a quote by a high level CCP member. It is clear this is the CSM in structure, and everything except name. Names and labels are easily changed. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Or do you take the position that unless something is said explicitly then it is never true? Would you expect the accused to always have to admit guilt directly and explicitly before a conviction is possible? The jails would be very empty if the accused had to plead guilty for any conviction to stick.
The plan, of flying elected players over in person, to speak directly is clearly the CSM, unless you know of another group of elected players getting flights over there. The options are basically 2:
1) The above is the CSM and as it evolved, the bit about auditing for developer fairness has quietly been dropped and unmentioned (hear anything about audits recently from them?), in favor of the PR of claiming "listening to players", and "player government" (that of course was ignored previously whenever they became inconvenient)
2) The above is not the CSM, in which case CCP have NOT followed through with their promise of having a group of players flown over specifically for the purpose of checking for fairness.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck even if you don't call it a duck. Option 1 is more likely.