The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
Skyrim a game that sold over 12 million copies. Became fastest selling PC game. And why ?
Because its first quality sandbox RPG
Wait... what?
Skyrim isn't a sandbox game. It's a massive themepark in the sense that content is given to the player; regardless in how much there is and what they can do with it.
If Skyrim is a sandbox then technically GW2 would be too, even more so since while Skyrim has mainly quests (although non-linear), GW2's DEs are as sandbox-y as developer content gets. Yet neither of them are anyway.
A sandbox is where players create the content and then drive it. Skyrim just has lots of developer-made attraction sites. Whether you wanted to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood is entirely driven by developer content rather than player.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
I said it all along SWTOR must die so that MMORPGs would live.
It represents everything that is wrong with post WOW MMO industry , and only if it crashes and burns the message will be loud enough (for investors) that gamers can not be taken for fools anymore.
On other hand GW2 is not MMO saviour. Far from that.
Its not even the perfect direction MMOs should take off. Its a big gamechanger though.
As a MMO that dares to challenge everything WOW does - from subscription , to gameplay.
Its sucess will send all the right signals to investors.
But if you ask me what is the real perfect storm ?
I would say Skyrim and Minecraft.
Skyrim a game that sold over 12 million copies. Became fastest selling PC game. And why ?
Because its first quality sandbox RPG
And Minecraft that sold just as much , and being just pure sandbox creativity tool.
I think this will pave the way for revolution in gaming and MMOs
And I think that real MMO revolution and perfect storm will be Archeage
( And still everyone and their dog will play GW2 - thats the smart trick from Anet)
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
Skyrim a game that sold over 12 million copies. Became fastest selling PC game. And why ?
Because its first quality sandbox RPG
Wait... what?
Skyrim isn't a sandbox game. It's a massive themepark in the sense that content is given to the player; regardless in how much there is and what they can do with it.
If Skyrim is a sandbox then technically GW2 would be too, even more so since while Skyrim has mainly quests (although non-linear), GW2's DEs are as sandbox-y as developer content gets. Yet neither of them are anyway.
A sandbox is where players create the content and then drive it. Skyrim just has lots of developer-made attraction sites. Whether you wanted to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood is entirely driven by developer content rather than player.
The difference you fail to see is that, while you're peppered with quests and here is an obvious main quest line, you don't have to follow it at all. In fact months after playing the game, I haven't progressed in the main quest almost at all while having a character in the upper 60s. Try doing that with a Bioware game and you will realise the difference. Sure, Skyrim is not Mount and Blade, but it's not DragonAge Origins either.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW1 was a niche game with not much mainstream appeal (wasn't a true MMO). It was and is very popular; but there is a difference between popular and mainstream. GW2 on the other hand has the potential to become extremely mainstream while still retaining uniqueness, so it's very possible other developers will follow on. That's the difference between the two games.
Skyrim a game that sold over 12 million copies. Became fastest selling PC game. And why ?
Because its first quality sandbox RPG
Wait... what?
Skyrim isn't a sandbox game. It's a massive themepark in the sense that content is given to the player; regardless in how much there is and what they can do with it.
If Skyrim is a sandbox then technically GW2 would be too, even more so since while Skyrim has mainly quests (although non-linear), GW2's DEs are as sandbox-y as developer content gets. Yet neither of them are anyway.
A sandbox is where players create the content and then drive it. Skyrim just has lots of developer-made attraction sites. Whether you wanted to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood is entirely driven by developer content rather than player.
The difference you fail to see is that, while you're peppered with quests and here is an obvious main quest line, you don't have to follow it at all. In fact months after playing the game, I haven't progressed in the main quest almost at all while having a character in the upper 60s. Try doing that with a Bioware game and you will realise the difference. Sure, Skyrim is not Mount and Blade, but it's not DragonAge Origins either.
Why every game has to be like other? aren't we talkign about diversity here and yet people complain how every other RPG isn't Skyrim. Bioware's main strength is storytelling and strong character narration. Bethesda is known more for open world settings. Both studios have their own strengths. What ever happened to diversity? i don't want all RPG's to be like Skyrim and i also don't want all RPG's to be like DA or ME.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW1 was a niche game with not much mainstream appeal (wasn't a true MMO). It was and is very popular; but there is a difference between popular and mainstream. GW2 on the other hand has the potential to become extremely mainstream while still retaining uniqueness, so it's very possible other developers will follow on. That's the difference between the two games.
If you look at the total sales of GW i really don't believe that GW wasn't mainstream. Fallen Earth isn't main stream. Darkfall and Mortal Online isn't mainstream. GW on the other hand sold 6.5 million units... it is pretty mainstream.
Skyrim a game that sold over 12 million copies. Became fastest selling PC game. And why ?
Because its first quality sandbox RPG
Wait... what?
Skyrim isn't a sandbox game. It's a massive themepark in the sense that content is given to the player; regardless in how much there is and what they can do with it.
If Skyrim is a sandbox then technically GW2 would be too, even more so since while Skyrim has mainly quests (although non-linear), GW2's DEs are as sandbox-y as developer content gets. Yet neither of them are anyway.
A sandbox is where players create the content and then drive it. Skyrim just has lots of developer-made attraction sites. Whether you wanted to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood is entirely driven by developer content rather than player.
The difference you fail to see is that, while you're peppered with quests and here is an obvious main quest line, you don't have to follow it at all. In fact months after playing the game, I haven't progressed in the main quest almost at all while having a character in the upper 60s. Try doing that with a Bioware game and you will realise the difference. Sure, Skyrim is not Mount and Blade, but it's not DragonAge Origins either.
But that doesn't mean Skyrim is a sandbox by definition.
I'm not arguing whether Skyrim is relevant in how the industry moves forward, but why it is labeled a sandbox. Like I said, GW2 is the exact same; you could go out and do non-linear DEs while completely ignoring your main personal story. But GW2 certainly isn't a sandbox either.
What I'm trying to say is that while the distinction between Themepark and Sandbox MMOs are commonly known, for single player RPGs the definitions are skewed for some reason.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW2 is vastly different from GW1...either your logic is off, OR you don't know what you're talking about.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW1 was a niche game with not much mainstream appeal (wasn't a true MMO). It was and is very popular; but there is a difference between popular and mainstream. GW2 on the other hand has the potential to become extremely mainstream while still retaining uniqueness, so it's very possible other developers will follow on. That's the difference between the two games.
If you look at the total sales of GW i really don't believe that GW wasn't mainstream. Fallen Earth isn't main stream. Darkfall and Mortal Online isn't mainstream. GW on the other hand sold 6.5 million units... it is pretty mainstream.
not necessarily, as those units that GW1 sold, you have to take into account over the time period the units were sold, and whether they were expacs or not, of which gw1 had more than a few, thats not to say that gw1 wasnt good at what it did, but it was pretty much a niche game.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW2 is vastly different from GW1...either your logic is off, OR you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for telling me the obvious even though that is not what we are talkign about here. Discussion is mostly about B2P, model and popularity of GW.
Not anythign remotely negative being said about GW equals to attack on your beloved GW2. Take it easy.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
So five years from now when everyone is crying about all the GW2 clones, what then?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
not necessarily, as those units that GW1 sold, you have to take into account over the time period the units were sold, and whether they were expacs or not, of which gw1 had more than a few, thats not to say that gw1 wasnt good at what it did, but it was pretty much a niche game.
In the end it is always about how much the game sold isn't it? Even WOW didn't get 10 million subs in first few months. It grew slowly over the period of 4 to 5 years to get that many players. Since when a game that sold close to 7 million copies considered a niche?
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW1 was a niche game with not much mainstream appeal (wasn't a true MMO). It was and is very popular; but there is a difference between popular and mainstream. GW2 on the other hand has the potential to become extremely mainstream while still retaining uniqueness, so it's very possible other developers will follow on. That's the difference between the two games.
If you look at the total sales of GW i really don't believe that GW wasn't mainstream. Fallen Earth isn't main stream. Darkfall and Mortal Online isn't mainstream. GW on the other hand sold 6.5 million units... it is pretty mainstream.
Popular =/= mainstream.
An MMO like say, WAR is mainstream. It didn't do very well but it was built to be as such due to it's features and relevence to the genre (no matter how good or bad it was).
GW wasn't mainstream because it was designed to completelygo against the norm or what was mainstream at the time; it wasn't really an MMO nor had any conventions MMOs typically have.
GW2 is designed to be mainstream for a lot of reasons. The recent console rumors is one example. The game itself, while still rather unique is evolving conventions rather than completely different ones like GW.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW2 is vastly different from GW1...either your logic is off, OR you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for telling me the obvious even though that is not what we are talkign about here. Discussion is mostly about B2P, model and popularity of GW.
Not anythign remotely negative being said about GW equals to attack on your beloved GW2. Take it easy.
I read your post, you inferred that since developers didn't rush out to copy GW1, that they will not rush out to copy GW2...and your logic is off. Has nothing to do with my 'beloved GW2', but everything to do with your assertion being incorrect. I was correcting you, not insulting you...you'd be amazed at the amount of misinformation and ignorance in this forum. As a previous post stated, if you're basing your opinion off of the box sales of GW1, you also have to factor in the amount of time it took to sell all of those copies. GW1 is quite old.
No for real, I hope ArenaNet dosn`t stay the only company trying something different, even if it is risky and a lot of work. No matter wether its a WoW or GW2 clone... Trying to be like another game can`t be the goal in the long run.
An MMO like say, WAR is mainstream. It didn't do very well but it was built to be as such due to it's features and relevence to the genre (no matter how good or bad it was).
GW wasn't mainstream because it was designed to completelygo against the norm or what was mainstream at the time; it wasn't really an MMO nor had any conventions MMOs typically have.
GW2 is designed to be mainstream for a lot of reasons. The recent console rumors is one example. The game itself, while still rather unique is evolving conventions rather than completely different ones like GW.
I guess people change definition of terms to suit their arguments as they go. Which is allright. uptill now if game is popular it sells more copies which makes it mainstream and now popular means mainstream and got nothing to do with how much copies it sells.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW2 is vastly different from GW1...either your logic is off, OR you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for telling me the obvious even though that is not what we are talkign about here. Discussion is mostly about B2P, model and popularity of GW.
Not anythign remotely negative being said about GW equals to attack on your beloved GW2. Take it easy.
I read your post, you inferred that since developers didn't rush out to copy GW1, that they will not rush out to copy GW2...and your logic is off. Has nothing to do with my 'beloved GW2', but everything to do with your assertion being incorrect. I was correcting you, not insulting you...you'd be amazed at the amount of misinformation and ignorance in this forum. As a previous post stated, if you're basing your opinion off of the box sales of GW1, you also have to factor in the amount of time it took to sell all of those copies. GW1 is quite old.
I am just taking example of WOW which is insanely popular / mianstream and sold more than any other MMO. So i guess for WOW it is ok to use number of sales to show it is mainstream but if GW sells 7 million copies it is still a niche? WOW also didn't sell millions at release, it grew slowly with time just like GW which kept steady sale numbers over the years.
You really sound obnoxious when you say 'you are trying to correct me'. Correct what? meaning of popular and mainstream? which changes faster on these forums than Paris Hilton's boyfriends?
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
GW2 is vastly different from GW1...either your logic is off, OR you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for telling me the obvious even though that is not what we are talkign about here. Discussion is mostly about B2P, model and popularity of GW.
Not anythign remotely negative being said about GW equals to attack on your beloved GW2. Take it easy.
I read your post, you inferred that since developers didn't rush out to copy GW1, that they will not rush out to copy GW2...and your logic is off. Has nothing to do with my 'beloved GW2', but everything to do with your assertion being incorrect. I was correcting you, not insulting you...you'd be amazed at the amount of misinformation and ignorance in this forum. As a previous post stated, if you're basing your opinion off of the box sales of GW1, you also have to factor in the amount of time it took to sell all of those copies. GW1 is quite old.
I am just taking example of WOW which is insanely popular / mianstream and sold more than any other MMO. So i guess for WOW it is ok to use number of sales to show it is mainstream but if GW sells 7 million copies it is still a niche? WOW also didn't sell millions at release, it grew slowly with time just like GW which kept steady sale numbers over the years.
You really sound obnoxious when you say 'you are trying to correct me'. Correct what? meaning of popular and mainstream? which changes faster on these forums than Paris Hilton's boyfriends?
Sorry, not trying to offend. I was referring to the similarity between GW1 and GW2, and how different they are. If you already KNEW that, then it was a misinterpretation on my end. I think maybe what they're referring to is active playerbase. Sure, GW1 has sold 6.5 million copies, but how did that translate into a longterm playerbase? WoW is undisputably atop the heap in terms of active subs/active playerbase. PART of that could certainly have to do with the subscription model that WoW prescribes to, but the difference between GW1 and WoW active playerbase is so vast, that it can't possibly be down to JUST P2P vs. B2P. Thus the argument that GW1 isn't as 'mainstream'.
So five years from now when everyone is crying about all the GW2 clones, what then?
I'd hope developers come up with some new ideas and not act like just because it sold well in the past it will sell well now.. or stand behing a famous IP in excuse for making a horribly generic copycat game... people act like everything has been done already and nothing with new ideas could possibly be made. I think it's this close minded way of thinking that has developers put out this same copycat stuff every year.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
So five years from now when everyone is crying about all the GW2 clones, what then?
I'd hope developers come up with some new ideas and not act like just because it sold well in the past it will sell well now.. or stand behing a famous IP in excuse for making a horribly generic copycat game... people act like everything has been done already and nothing with new ideas could possibly be made. I think it's this close minded way of thinking that has developers put out this same copycat stuff every year.
In that regard, alot of gamers aren't much different from those that maintained the earth was flat in spite of evidence to the contrary, lol.
If GW2 is Buy to Play with no sub then even without some features from WoW and other games, in these austere times I predict it will take many subscriptions away from those other games. I will no doubt be one of the non-returning subs... but it is up to the company's that rival ArenaNet to retain their playerbases, no one else can take the blame but themselves for sucking at game creation or praising themselves for creating a great game that keeps people returning for more. Healthy competition is healthy.
If GW2 is Buy to Play with no sub then even without some features from WoW and other games, in these austere times I predict it will take many subscriptions away from those other games. I will no doubt be one of the non-returning subs... but it is up to the company's that rival ArenaNet to retain their playerbases, no one else can take the blame but themselves for sucking at game creation or praising themselves for creating a great game that keeps people returning for more. Healthy competition is healthy.
B2P is all well and good, but, where GW2 is probably diverging from the GW1 model, is that it will be B2P with microtransactions, of the sort normally associated with the mass of F2P games currently on the market. Probably this was always going to be inevitable, but its not something im particularly comfortable with either.
so the question really is, how much of the game is viable without being forced to buy things from the cash shop, either to be able to compete in PVP or to gain/advance in a particular skill in PVE.. until the full details are known its not really possible call GW2 a B2P game, because it very well might not be.
I can only dedicate time to 1 game and that will be GW2, for me it doesnt matter if its a sub based mmo or free to play / buy to play format.
So yes iam sure people who try out GW2 and like it are going to unsub from their current mmo or stop playing their current mmo unless they have no life and work and live in grand mothers basement.
If GW2 live up to his standards then omg are other mmo's in danger ? i believe so as from what i have seen so far it just rocks on so many levels that no other mmo's can nopy or even come close tot the level of fun GW2 is going to offer.
WoW already lost 2 million + players within 1 year
SWTOR 2 million playerbase ? might lose all their pvp players on day one
Dunno about the less common pvp mmo's but i bet ALOT of people are looking into GW2 so they might get an even harder time then SWTOR and WoW.
My bet is that GW2 might be the next best thing to play in PvP and PvE.
But who i am ? just a random joe with a big mouth spitting out predictions
Comments
What's more likely to happen in the event of a huge GW2 hit is that all the execs start ordering their studios to clone GW2 instead of WoW... Innovation and risk taking isn't part of these people's vocabulary.
Wait... what?
Skyrim isn't a sandbox game. It's a massive themepark in the sense that content is given to the player; regardless in how much there is and what they can do with it.
If Skyrim is a sandbox then technically GW2 would be too, even more so since while Skyrim has mainly quests (although non-linear), GW2's DEs are as sandbox-y as developer content gets. Yet neither of them are anyway.
A sandbox is where players create the content and then drive it. Skyrim just has lots of developer-made attraction sites. Whether you wanted to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood is entirely driven by developer content rather than player.
If this was true we would see a lot more clones of GW..it was a pretty successful more than any MMOS released after it. Unless GW2 beats WOW to pulp i don't see anyone making GW2 clones.
Bite Me
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
Bite Me
The difference you fail to see is that, while you're peppered with quests and here is an obvious main quest line, you don't have to follow it at all. In fact months after playing the game, I haven't progressed in the main quest almost at all while having a character in the upper 60s. Try doing that with a Bioware game and you will realise the difference. Sure, Skyrim is not Mount and Blade, but it's not DragonAge Origins either.
GW1 was a niche game with not much mainstream appeal (wasn't a true MMO). It was and is very popular; but there is a difference between popular and mainstream. GW2 on the other hand has the potential to become extremely mainstream while still retaining uniqueness, so it's very possible other developers will follow on. That's the difference between the two games.
Why every game has to be like other? aren't we talkign about diversity here and yet people complain how every other RPG isn't Skyrim. Bioware's main strength is storytelling and strong character narration. Bethesda is known more for open world settings. Both studios have their own strengths. What ever happened to diversity? i don't want all RPG's to be like Skyrim and i also don't want all RPG's to be like DA or ME.
Bite Me
If you look at the total sales of GW i really don't believe that GW wasn't mainstream. Fallen Earth isn't main stream. Darkfall and Mortal Online isn't mainstream. GW on the other hand sold 6.5 million units... it is pretty mainstream.
Bite Me
But that doesn't mean Skyrim is a sandbox by definition.
I'm not arguing whether Skyrim is relevant in how the industry moves forward, but why it is labeled a sandbox. Like I said, GW2 is the exact same; you could go out and do non-linear DEs while completely ignoring your main personal story. But GW2 certainly isn't a sandbox either.
What I'm trying to say is that while the distinction between Themepark and Sandbox MMOs are commonly known, for single player RPGs the definitions are skewed for some reason.
GW2 is vastly different from GW1...either your logic is off, OR you don't know what you're talking about.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
not necessarily, as those units that GW1 sold, you have to take into account over the time period the units were sold, and whether they were expacs or not, of which gw1 had more than a few, thats not to say that gw1 wasnt good at what it did, but it was pretty much a niche game.
Thanks for telling me the obvious even though that is not what we are talkign about here. Discussion is mostly about B2P, model and popularity of GW.
Not anythign remotely negative being said about GW equals to attack on your beloved GW2. Take it easy.
Bite Me
So five years from now when everyone is crying about all the GW2 clones, what then?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
In the end it is always about how much the game sold isn't it? Even WOW didn't get 10 million subs in first few months. It grew slowly over the period of 4 to 5 years to get that many players. Since when a game that sold close to 7 million copies considered a niche?
Bite Me
Popular =/= mainstream.
An MMO like say, WAR is mainstream. It didn't do very well but it was built to be as such due to it's features and relevence to the genre (no matter how good or bad it was).
GW wasn't mainstream because it was designed to completelygo against the norm or what was mainstream at the time; it wasn't really an MMO nor had any conventions MMOs typically have.
GW2 is designed to be mainstream for a lot of reasons. The recent console rumors is one example. The game itself, while still rather unique is evolving conventions rather than completely different ones like GW.
I read your post, you inferred that since developers didn't rush out to copy GW1, that they will not rush out to copy GW2...and your logic is off. Has nothing to do with my 'beloved GW2', but everything to do with your assertion being incorrect. I was correcting you, not insulting you...you'd be amazed at the amount of misinformation and ignorance in this forum. As a previous post stated, if you're basing your opinion off of the box sales of GW1, you also have to factor in the amount of time it took to sell all of those copies. GW1 is quite old.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Then I´ll still be playing GW2 xD
No for real, I hope ArenaNet dosn`t stay the only company trying something different, even if it is risky and a lot of work. No matter wether its a WoW or GW2 clone... Trying to be like another game can`t be the goal in the long run.
I guess people change definition of terms to suit their arguments as they go. Which is allright. uptill now if game is popular it sells more copies which makes it mainstream and now popular means mainstream and got nothing to do with how much copies it sells.
Bite Me
I am just taking example of WOW which is insanely popular / mianstream and sold more than any other MMO. So i guess for WOW it is ok to use number of sales to show it is mainstream but if GW sells 7 million copies it is still a niche? WOW also didn't sell millions at release, it grew slowly with time just like GW which kept steady sale numbers over the years.
You really sound obnoxious when you say 'you are trying to correct me'. Correct what? meaning of popular and mainstream? which changes faster on these forums than Paris Hilton's boyfriends?
Bite Me
Sorry, not trying to offend. I was referring to the similarity between GW1 and GW2, and how different they are. If you already KNEW that, then it was a misinterpretation on my end. I think maybe what they're referring to is active playerbase. Sure, GW1 has sold 6.5 million copies, but how did that translate into a longterm playerbase? WoW is undisputably atop the heap in terms of active subs/active playerbase. PART of that could certainly have to do with the subscription model that WoW prescribes to, but the difference between GW1 and WoW active playerbase is so vast, that it can't possibly be down to JUST P2P vs. B2P. Thus the argument that GW1 isn't as 'mainstream'.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
I'd hope developers come up with some new ideas and not act like just because it sold well in the past it will sell well now.. or stand behing a famous IP in excuse for making a horribly generic copycat game... people act like everything has been done already and nothing with new ideas could possibly be made. I think it's this close minded way of thinking that has developers put out this same copycat stuff every year.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
In that regard, alot of gamers aren't much different from those that maintained the earth was flat in spite of evidence to the contrary, lol.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
If GW2 is Buy to Play with no sub then even without some features from WoW and other games, in these austere times I predict it will take many subscriptions away from those other games. I will no doubt be one of the non-returning subs... but it is up to the company's that rival ArenaNet to retain their playerbases, no one else can take the blame but themselves for sucking at game creation or praising themselves for creating a great game that keeps people returning for more. Healthy competition is healthy.
B2P is all well and good, but, where GW2 is probably diverging from the GW1 model, is that it will be B2P with microtransactions, of the sort normally associated with the mass of F2P games currently on the market. Probably this was always going to be inevitable, but its not something im particularly comfortable with either.
so the question really is, how much of the game is viable without being forced to buy things from the cash shop, either to be able to compete in PVP or to gain/advance in a particular skill in PVE.. until the full details are known its not really possible call GW2 a B2P game, because it very well might not be.
I play WoT (world of Tanks) free to play
I play GW2 soon free to play
I can only dedicate time to 1 game and that will be GW2, for me it doesnt matter if its a sub based mmo or free to play / buy to play format.
So yes iam sure people who try out GW2 and like it are going to unsub from their current mmo or stop playing their current mmo unless they have no life and work and live in grand mothers basement.
If GW2 live up to his standards then omg are other mmo's in danger ? i believe so as from what i have seen so far it just rocks on so many levels that no other mmo's can nopy or even come close tot the level of fun GW2 is going to offer.
WoW already lost 2 million + players within 1 year
SWTOR 2 million playerbase ? might lose all their pvp players on day one
Dunno about the less common pvp mmo's but i bet ALOT of people are looking into GW2 so they might get an even harder time then SWTOR and WoW.
My bet is that GW2 might be the next best thing to play in PvP and PvE.
But who i am
? just a random joe with a big mouth spitting out predictions 