The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line.
Don't give them that much credit. They just copied EverQuest's formula.
Did you even play EQ before WoW had any influence on it? TOTALLY different game on every level, except that they're both fantasy MMOs. Calling WoW an EQ clone is just silly. WoW's more of a CoH/DAoC hybrid/clone, but that's pretty silly too.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
An MMO like say, WAR is mainstream. It didn't do very well but it was built to be as such due to it's features and relevence to the genre (no matter how good or bad it was).
GW wasn't mainstream because it was designed to completelygo against the norm or what was mainstream at the time; it wasn't really an MMO nor had any conventions MMOs typically have.
GW2 is designed to be mainstream for a lot of reasons. The recent console rumors is one example. The game itself, while still rather unique is evolving conventions rather than completely different ones like GW.
I guess people change definition of terms to suit their arguments as they go. Which is allright. uptill now if game is popular it sells more copies which makes it mainstream and now popular means mainstream and got nothing to do with how much copies it sells.
I'm sorry? I'm changing definitions when and how?
By definition, mainstream is when something trends for a long-term period of time. When something is designed to be mainstream it follows trends based on what has previously been done. Everquest became mainstream due to retaining trends from MMOs before that; established by the genre. WoW evolved from that; thus did similar MMOs such as WAR, Rift, TOR etc... They are all mainstream.
When something isn't mainstream it doesn't follow standards or trends because it doesn't evolve on what's established to be the norm or what's generally marketable. Games such as Portal, while now very popular, isn't technically mainstream because it's established it's own niche by not really following trends in the past. GW was the same way, so is EVE etc... All rather popular amongst their fanbase. But they are niches because they still target a soecific audience seperate from what is typically trend-setting or mainstream.
It isn't hard to get your head around. Niche =/= unpopular and mainstream =/= popular. Duke Nukem forever was designed to be mainstream but still fell flat on it's arse. Minecraft is not mainstream; it has it's own niche but is obviously now insanely popular. However, if future games evolved on what Minecraft has done and it continued to be successful, a trend would establish and thus it could become mainstream. That's how things work.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
The whole 'all intelligent people understand and agree with my viewpoint and if people disagree then they're average joes' is getting kinda old, don't you think? Besides it being an obvious fallacy ofc.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
The whole 'all intelligent people understand and agree with my viewpoint and if people disagree then they're average joes' is getting kinda old, don't you think? Besides it being an obvious fallacy ofc.
Understand, yes.
Agree ?
Maybe. And maybe not.
But disagreeing without even understanding (or even more common : not even reading) , that is what i am talking about.
When guild wars 2 comes out paying a monthly fee for an mmo will no longer feel justified. Guild wars 2 seems to have more content than swtor and it has no monthly fee.
There are so many twisted people in these forums. If people are enjoying something, what kind of people want something to fail that takes away from the fun those people are having even if you don't like something? Whats the point of rooting for something to fail? Seems like a lot of wasted energy to me.
If enough people are enjoying it then it won't fail will it? What are you worried about?
The point is that we as players should express our opinions, both positive and negative, so that people sitting on the fence about games can decide to try them or not. We should also express opions in the vain hope it influences developers.
What I don't understand is why you'd want people to stay quiet about a game they consider to be very poor. Do you want us all to be yes-men? Sometimes telling white lies (or simply staying silent) is the worst thing you can do to a person.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
Let us say i am average joe, where is your proof that EA lost billions over billions? any shred of evidence you got? making vague statements doesn't equal to intelligent debate.
By definition, mainstream is when something trends for a long-term period of time. When something is designed to be mainstream it follows trends based on what has previously been done. Everquest became mainstream due to retaining trends from MMOs before that; established by the genre. WoW evolved from that; thus did similar MMOs such as WAR, Rift, TOR etc... They are all mainstream.
When something isn't mainstream it doesn't follow standards or trends because it doesn't evolve on what's established to be the norm or what's generally marketable. Games such as Portal, while now very popular, isn't technically mainstream because it's established it's own niche by not really following trends in the past. GW was the same way, so is EVE etc... All rather popular amongst their fanbase. But they are niches because they still target a soecific audience seperate from what is typically trend-setting or mainstream.
It isn't hard to get your head around. Niche =/= unpopular and mainstream =/= popular. Duke Nukem forever was designed to be mainstream but still fell flat on it's arse. Minecraft is not mainstream; it has it's own niche but is obviously now insanely popular. However, if future games evolved on what Minecraft has done and it continued to be successful, a trend would establish and thus it could become mainstream. That's how things work.
Bottom line is -- this is how GW and GW2 differ.
I never even once diagreed that mainstream doesn't mean popular but how do you gauge popularity of a thing? say whther it is music, movies or videogames? obvious answer is sales and charts. So for games to sell millions of copies it has to be popular which means it is a mainstream. You and i can put our own twists on what it actually means but when something sells in millions it is hard to call it a niche. Niche means small and selected audience. 7 million player base is neither niche nor small.
I love how people always want to say one or the other. If you look at statistics you will notice that most people play 1-2 MMO's. Its very possible that someone like myself who has always wanted a good Sci-Fi MMO and a good Fantasy MMO will be playing both TOR and GW2. Hmmm what a strange concept. Seriously all you gold farmers trying to move the masses to the games you have setup...please stop wasting our time with your pathetic posts.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
The whole 'all intelligent people understand and agree with my viewpoint and if people disagree then they're average joes' is getting kinda old, don't you think? Besides it being an obvious fallacy ofc.
Understand, yes.
Agree ?
Maybe. And maybe not.
But disagreeing without even understanding (or even more common : not even reading) , that is what i am talking about.
Shrug. It's pretty obvious what direction you're taking your arguments, most people simply diagree with the farfetched nature of them.
For one, you're talking about future events that haven't even crystallised yet, while ignoring all the other products like for example the BF and ME franchise that it releases games for. Then you want to make EA's acquisition expenses of BW be all about TOR which has a big a flaw as well, as if 1) a game company is completely about the revenues and profit of 1 game they make in all the years since a company is acquired - that'd be like write the whole acquisition account of a Blizzard on a Warcraft 3 or WoW, or the whole acquisition cost of Infinity Ward on MW2 - and 2) ignoring completely the other games and franchises like the ME and DA series that are created as well as the goodwill, brand name and human resource pool that is acquired by EA in the process.
Anyway, this is off topic, so I'm gonna leave it at this.
Originally posted by Rikus25
I love how people always want to say one or the other. If you look at statistics you will notice that most people play 1-2 MMO's. Its very possible that someone like myself who has always wanted a good Sci-Fi MMO and a good Fantasy MMO will be playing both TOR and GW2. Hmmm what a strange concept. Seriously all you gold farmers trying to move the masses to the games you have setup...please stop wasting our time with your pathetic posts.
I think a number of people are serial monogamist in their MMO gaming habit: they fully, completely devote themselves and all their time to 1 game and none else and get completely attached to that one. While other people like me tend to switch playing various MMO's, sometimes even at the same time in the same weeks. Personally I don't intend to miss out on either TOR, TSW, GW2, Arche AGe and Firefall, but what the ratio of time I devote to all of these during the year depends on release dates and mood and how much I'm enjoying them from week to week.
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line. What came was a myriad of cookie cutter MMO's that at best are supporting a handful of there original player base. Who is to blame for these games? The executives are the driving forces behind these sub par games. The ones who finance it but doubtfully ever even play them. Its all about the bottom line.
The latest WOW clone to be released is SWTOR. I wouldn't call it a failure, it's too soon for that. But i wouldn't call it a success either. They spent 200 million dollars for a game that allot of gamers don't find very much value in. With GW2 right around the corner and the praise it is receiving for its refreshingly different game play, it seems to make Star Wars even more of a target to the disillusioned masses. Good i say! I sincerely hope that SWTOR goes down in flames and I also hope Arena net delivers in the face of so much hype. Then maybe. Just maybe, the gaming execs will finally wake up and the new industry buzzwords will be "innovation" and "fun". Not WOW.
Somewhere along the way our dreams of what future games would be, became derailed and stuck in the mud. I hope these two games releasing within months of each other (fingers crossed) do become a perfect storm and force the future of gaming back on track.
Thoughts?
My thoughts:
I just love the fact that once GW2 is released very much the same ppl who are crying how bad MMOs are right now, will once again whine because something (or some things) in that fab new game that they were so looking forward to just isn't working as they had expected it...
and then of course they'll be all wise and point to thye next big thing that is just around the corner...
Face it people, you killed the MMO genre... well, maybe 'killed' is too much but you turned it a whimpy lightweight that couldn't even haul its own arse off to the loo... maybe MMO should be killed?
There are so many twisted people in these forums. If people are enjoying something, what kind of people want something to fail that takes away from the fun those people are having even if you don't like something? Whats the point of rooting for something to fail? Seems like a lot of wasted energy to me.
If enough people are enjoying it then it won't fail will it? What are you worried about?
The point is that we as players should express our opinions, both positive and negative, so that people sitting on the fence about games can decide to try them or not. We should also express opions in the vain hope it influences developers.
What I don't understand is why you'd want people to stay quiet about a game they consider to be very poor. Do you want us all to be yes-men? Sometimes telling white lies (or simply staying silent) is the worst thing you can do to a person.
There is a big difference between having a different point of view and hoping that a game fails. It makes no sense whatsover. I hated Darkfall, but if you look at my history, no where will you see that I went lurking on the forums stating, "I hate this game, I hope it fails". Its just plain childish, not a point of view. Hating it is a point of view. Hoping it fails isn't. There are millions of players out there enjoying dozens of MMOs. The whole making a point to the developers is a bunch of BS.
I love how everyone seems to say that the only games being released or have been released with a focus of 2012 is SWTOR and GW2. 2012 is interestesting because the sheer amount of good looking games that are being released. so sorry to pop your bubble, if you really wanted to show what was happening just post the list of anticipated games being released this year.
Also the only way WoW is gonna go down is if they do it themselves, which they are doing quite well of at the moment. the only thing keeping them in their place is the sheer amount of people who dont want to admit that they wasted years upon years and hundreds of dollars on their characters by switching games.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
If the Guild Wars 2 model proves to be a greater financial success than the WoW model (something I highly doubt), the buzzword won't be "innovation" or "fun", it'll be "GW2 Clone".
The MMO gaming industry has been abysmal the past decade. I am not a WOW fan but Blizzard did do something right and something very very wrong. They created a formula that had every software house thinking they could reproduce Blizzards financial bottom line.
Don't give them that much credit. They just copied EverQuest's formula.
Did you even play EQ before WoW had any influence on it? TOTALLY different game on every level, except that they're both fantasy MMOs. Calling WoW an EQ clone is just silly. WoW's more of a CoH/DAoC hybrid/clone, but that's pretty silly too.
I wish, then it might have actually been fun. No, WoW's developers were hardcore EQ raiders and it showed. WoW's overarching design was linear dungeon/loot grind followed by dungeons based on gimmicks and loot progression. It took all the worst design features of EQ, then used instances to solve them all, creating one of the most anti social MMOs in recent memory. They left out all of EQ's depth, immersion, and social aspects and just kept the broken design.
I hope GW2 blows ToR out of the water for the sake of change.With that said,do I want other companies following Arenanets coat tails? (which im expecting them to) if GW2 is a complete success?
NO.
The market will only end up the same way it is now,a stagnant replicated mess.
The reason why WoW was successful was becaue first it had great production quality and second it was innovative for its time. Both of those reasons are exactly what GW2 is trying to do and ive said for many years now that the key to successful MMO gaming is to push the boundires and innovate the shit out of something to make it your own. Its jsut a crying shame that games like Rift, LotRO, SWTOR, Aion and WAR took the shortcut instead of doing what was necesaary. From this day on I'll never ever play a MMO that decides to take the "easy way out" and try and capitilize on anothers success. The drawback to this whole scenario is alot of game stupidos...err studios will copy GW2 for the next 5 years and the cycle will repeat.
Agreed.
This past decade, this whole copy cat method has really gotten stale and I will be VERY selective of what MMO I purchase if companies keep it up.
Do people on this site even actually like MMOs? Seriously? This isn't highlander, there doesn't have to be only one, has anyone even thought that perhaps there are people who are new to MMOs who have never played WoW so certain "WoW-clones" don't actually seem like clones to those people? Why can't the industry thrive and produce content that stretches the spectrum regardless of commercial success? Sure there are a lot of large companies that stick to one formula, but there are also companies that do try to break the mold. If GW2 succeeds, great, I'll have a game that I'd like to play and when I get bored of it, I'll know its always there for me to go back to, then I can switch over to one of my subbed games and be happy for that month that I've played it. I seriously don't understand the hivemind sometimes... perhaps its because I'm not a sheep.
Don't make brash judgements. I was sceptical about ToR but I gave it a chance and found out in beta it wasn't good. I'll wait to play it and see how it goes. Chances are I'll get it unless it makes me cringe like ToR.
Do people on this site even actually like MMOs? Seriously? This isn't highlander, there doesn't have to be only one, has anyone even thought that perhaps there are people who are new to MMOs who have never played WoW so certain "WoW-clones" don't actually seem like clones to those people? Why can't the industry thrive and produce content that stretches the spectrum regardless of commercial success? Sure there are a lot of large companies that stick to one formula, but there are also companies that do try to break the mold. If GW2 succeeds, great, I'll have a game that I'd like to play and when I get bored of it, I'll know its always there for me to go back to, then I can switch over to one of my subbed games and be happy for that month that I've played it. I seriously don't understand the hivemind sometimes... perhaps its because I'm not a sheep.
I often wonder that myself, it seems that a lot of people here maybe only really like 1-2 out of 100 MMO's out there, and aren't really wide spectrum MMORPG fans but only like a very narrow band of all the MMO genre has to offer in design types, mechanics and flavors. Personally I think the best-case scenario is that if you have various types of MMO's incl themepark ones that are successful and popular, since that scenario leads to the widest variety in options and choices in MMO's that'll be available.
Personally SWTOR just made me more wary about jumping into any new game at launch. Especially themeparks. I'm getting more and more convinced that games with a lack of player made content (territory control / world pvp / building / farming, etc) and leaning heavily on handholding / restrictions and pre-concepted, dev built content won't cut it anymore in mmorpg land. In that sense I am not so confident that GW2 will be a much different experience for me. WvWvW being the exception perhaps.
Personally SWTOR just made me more wary about jumping into any new game at launch. Especially themeparks. I'm getting more and more convinced that games with a lack of player made content (territory control / world pvp / building / farming, etc) and leaning heavily on handholding / restrictions and pre-concepted, dev built content won't cut it anymore in mmorpg land. In that sense I am not so confident that GW2 will be a much different experience for me. WvWvW being the exception perhaps.
My advice to you is to stop researching games for a year so you won't flip flop upon release even after playing beta.
Personally SWTOR just made me more wary about jumping into any new game at launch. Especially themeparks. I'm getting more and more convinced that games with a lack of player made content (territory control / world pvp / building / farming, etc) and leaning heavily on handholding / restrictions and pre-concepted, dev built content won't cut it anymore in mmorpg land. In that sense I am not so confident that GW2 will be a much different experience for me. WvWvW being the exception perhaps.
Just your personal opinion i guess. There are other people too in mmorpg land who are enjoy themeparks and these games are still most profitable than any sandbox ever can be.
Comments
Did you even play EQ before WoW had any influence on it? TOTALLY different game on every level, except that they're both fantasy MMOs. Calling WoW an EQ clone is just silly. WoW's more of a CoH/DAoC hybrid/clone, but that's pretty silly too.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I'm sorry? I'm changing definitions when and how?
By definition, mainstream is when something trends for a long-term period of time. When something is designed to be mainstream it follows trends based on what has previously been done. Everquest became mainstream due to retaining trends from MMOs before that; established by the genre. WoW evolved from that; thus did similar MMOs such as WAR, Rift, TOR etc... They are all mainstream.
When something isn't mainstream it doesn't follow standards or trends because it doesn't evolve on what's established to be the norm or what's generally marketable. Games such as Portal, while now very popular, isn't technically mainstream because it's established it's own niche by not really following trends in the past. GW was the same way, so is EVE etc... All rather popular amongst their fanbase. But they are niches because they still target a soecific audience seperate from what is typically trend-setting or mainstream.
It isn't hard to get your head around. Niche =/= unpopular and mainstream =/= popular. Duke Nukem forever was designed to be mainstream but still fell flat on it's arse. Minecraft is not mainstream; it has it's own niche but is obviously now insanely popular. However, if future games evolved on what Minecraft has done and it continued to be successful, a trend would establish and thus it could become mainstream. That's how things work.
Bottom line is -- this is how GW and GW2 differ.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
The whole 'all intelligent people understand and agree with my viewpoint and if people disagree then they're average joes' is getting kinda old, don't you think? Besides it being an obvious fallacy ofc.Understand, yes.
Agree ?
Maybe. And maybe not.
But disagreeing without even understanding (or even more common : not even reading) , that is what i am talking about.
When guild wars 2 comes out paying a monthly fee for an mmo will no longer feel justified. Guild wars 2 seems to have more content than swtor and it has no monthly fee.
If enough people are enjoying it then it won't fail will it? What are you worried about?
The point is that we as players should express our opinions, both positive and negative, so that people sitting on the fence about games can decide to try them or not. We should also express opions in the vain hope it influences developers.
What I don't understand is why you'd want people to stay quiet about a game they consider to be very poor. Do you want us all to be yes-men? Sometimes telling white lies (or simply staying silent) is the worst thing you can do to a person.
Let us say i am average joe, where is your proof that EA lost billions over billions? any shred of evidence you got? making vague statements doesn't equal to intelligent debate.
Bite Me
I never even once diagreed that mainstream doesn't mean popular but how do you gauge popularity of a thing? say whther it is music, movies or videogames? obvious answer is sales and charts. So for games to sell millions of copies it has to be popular which means it is a mainstream. You and i can put our own twists on what it actually means but when something sells in millions it is hard to call it a niche. Niche means small and selected audience. 7 million player base is neither niche nor small.
Bite Me
I love how people always want to say one or the other. If you look at statistics you will notice that most people play 1-2 MMO's. Its very possible that someone like myself who has always wanted a good Sci-Fi MMO and a good Fantasy MMO will be playing both TOR and GW2. Hmmm what a strange concept. Seriously all you gold farmers trying to move the masses to the games you have setup...please stop wasting our time with your pathetic posts.
I see you are exaggerating as usual. You are the same guy who claimed Swtor made EA lose billion over billion right? by the way Skyrim hasn't sold 12 million copies yet and the reason for its huge sales is that it was released on consoles too. And consoles takes majority of cake when it comes to video game sales.
And even if i believe you then Archage should sell 4 to 5 million copies easily..on PC alone. I would love to see you stand by your ridiculous claims for once.
When i said SWTOR made EA lose billion over billion , I was talking about the fact that they completely lost investor liability.
This may not be too obvious (yet) to average joe's.
But watch the market in comming months.
Or better yet. Look how many big budget project EA will launch next year.
It was not billions over billions of invested money - although they invested over 500 million in SWTOR (if you consider Bioware acquisition an expense)
But the money they still stand to lose.
Skyrim on other hand.
Watch closely what is happening with Bethesda on the market.
Its sad i am wasting so much time typing long explanations some things to average joes, when my rants are ment for more inteligent people that have no problem understanding.
The whole 'all intelligent people understand and agree with my viewpoint and if people disagree then they're average joes' is getting kinda old, don't you think? Besides it being an obvious fallacy ofc.Understand, yes.
Agree ?
Maybe. And maybe not.
But disagreeing without even understanding (or even more common : not even reading) , that is what i am talking about.
Shrug. It's pretty obvious what direction you're taking your arguments, most people simply diagree with the farfetched nature of them.
For one, you're talking about future events that haven't even crystallised yet, while ignoring all the other products like for example the BF and ME franchise that it releases games for. Then you want to make EA's acquisition expenses of BW be all about TOR which has a big a flaw as well, as if 1) a game company is completely about the revenues and profit of 1 game they make in all the years since a company is acquired - that'd be like write the whole acquisition account of a Blizzard on a Warcraft 3 or WoW, or the whole acquisition cost of Infinity Ward on MW2 - and 2) ignoring completely the other games and franchises like the ME and DA series that are created as well as the goodwill, brand name and human resource pool that is acquired by EA in the process.
Anyway, this is off topic, so I'm gonna leave it at this.
I think a number of people are serial monogamist in their MMO gaming habit: they fully, completely devote themselves and all their time to 1 game and none else and get completely attached to that one. While other people like me tend to switch playing various MMO's, sometimes even at the same time in the same weeks. Personally I don't intend to miss out on either TOR, TSW, GW2, Arche AGe and Firefall, but what the ratio of time I devote to all of these during the year depends on release dates and mood and how much I'm enjoying them from week to week.My thoughts:
I just love the fact that once GW2 is released very much the same ppl who are crying how bad MMOs are right now, will once again whine because something (or some things) in that fab new game that they were so looking forward to just isn't working as they had expected it...
and then of course they'll be all wise and point to thye next big thing that is just around the corner...
Face it people, you killed the MMO genre... well, maybe 'killed' is too much but you turned it a whimpy lightweight that couldn't even haul its own arse off to the loo... maybe MMO should be killed?
There is a big difference between having a different point of view and hoping that a game fails. It makes no sense whatsover. I hated Darkfall, but if you look at my history, no where will you see that I went lurking on the forums stating, "I hate this game, I hope it fails". Its just plain childish, not a point of view. Hating it is a point of view. Hoping it fails isn't. There are millions of players out there enjoying dozens of MMOs. The whole making a point to the developers is a bunch of BS.
There Is Always Hope!
*snickers* these WoW killer threads are great.
popcorn nom nom nom
I love how everyone seems to say that the only games being released or have been released with a focus of 2012 is SWTOR and GW2. 2012 is interestesting because the sheer amount of good looking games that are being released. so sorry to pop your bubble, if you really wanted to show what was happening just post the list of anticipated games being released this year.
Also the only way WoW is gonna go down is if they do it themselves, which they are doing quite well of at the moment. the only thing keeping them in their place is the sheer amount of people who dont want to admit that they wasted years upon years and hundreds of dollars on their characters by switching games.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
If the Guild Wars 2 model proves to be a greater financial success than the WoW model (something I highly doubt), the buzzword won't be "innovation" or "fun", it'll be "GW2 Clone".
I wish, then it might have actually been fun. No, WoW's developers were hardcore EQ raiders and it showed. WoW's overarching design was linear dungeon/loot grind followed by dungeons based on gimmicks and loot progression. It took all the worst design features of EQ, then used instances to solve them all, creating one of the most anti social MMOs in recent memory. They left out all of EQ's depth, immersion, and social aspects and just kept the broken design.
Agreed.
This past decade, this whole copy cat method has really gotten stale and I will be VERY selective of what MMO I purchase if companies keep it up.
Do people on this site even actually like MMOs? Seriously? This isn't highlander, there doesn't have to be only one, has anyone even thought that perhaps there are people who are new to MMOs who have never played WoW so certain "WoW-clones" don't actually seem like clones to those people? Why can't the industry thrive and produce content that stretches the spectrum regardless of commercial success? Sure there are a lot of large companies that stick to one formula, but there are also companies that do try to break the mold. If GW2 succeeds, great, I'll have a game that I'd like to play and when I get bored of it, I'll know its always there for me to go back to, then I can switch over to one of my subbed games and be happy for that month that I've played it. I seriously don't understand the hivemind sometimes... perhaps its because I'm not a sheep.
Compare gw2 with tsw, arche age, tera but please don't compare it to tortanic
Don't make brash judgements. I was sceptical about ToR but I gave it a chance and found out in beta it wasn't good. I'll wait to play it and see how it goes. Chances are I'll get it unless it makes me cringe like ToR.
I often wonder that myself, it seems that a lot of people here maybe only really like 1-2 out of 100 MMO's out there, and aren't really wide spectrum MMORPG fans but only like a very narrow band of all the MMO genre has to offer in design types, mechanics and flavors. Personally I think the best-case scenario is that if you have various types of MMO's incl themepark ones that are successful and popular, since that scenario leads to the widest variety in options and choices in MMO's that'll be available.Personally SWTOR just made me more wary about jumping into any new game at launch. Especially themeparks. I'm getting more and more convinced that games with a lack of player made content (territory control / world pvp / building / farming, etc) and leaning heavily on handholding / restrictions and pre-concepted, dev built content won't cut it anymore in mmorpg land. In that sense I am not so confident that GW2 will be a much different experience for me. WvWvW being the exception perhaps.
My brand new bloggity blog.
My advice to you is to stop researching games for a year so you won't flip flop upon release even after playing beta.
There Is Always Hope!
Just your personal opinion i guess. There are other people too in mmorpg land who are enjoy themeparks and these games are still most profitable than any sandbox ever can be.