This is exactly the kind of system you *DON'T* want in place to ensure healthy WvW.
If switching servers is a potential problem then the answer is to limit that through time delays. Limit how often someone may switch and implement a cooldown before they can receive benefits from WvW buffs.
Any serious pvp competitor isn't going to be phased by a cash penalty. All this does is show that any imbalance doesn't matter if someone is willing to pay the tax. This sends a message that ANet doesn't care about potential problems they care about a money making opportunity.
I hope they have time delays as well. Also, I wouldn't call bandwagoners "serious pvp competitors." Competitors want... well... competition. Otherwise, people like Usain Bolt would run at the Special Olympics every year.
1. Check Topic (If topic itself is ridiculous, walk away)
2. Read OP, if you find yourself going WHAT THE SH*T IS THIS? and see the join date after. (walk away)
3. If the join date is relevent, check posting history. If its been mostly trolling. (Walk away)
4. If history is relevent and user has other concerns that he/she discussed and came to somewhat of an understanding. (Discuss the topic at hand)
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
It appears as though GW2 accounts will be locked into one "home server" for WvW.
That is, all characters for one account are limited to their original server for WvW. You cannot reroll on another server to WvW for them. If you want to switch servers, you must pay to move your entire account.
Some of our more astute fans asked about the complications involved with switching servers and how it would interact with world bonuses. Every account has a home server where your characters are created. You can only fight for your home world in WvW. You can visit other servers, and while you are visiting, you still get the world bonus from your home world instead of the bonus for the world you are visiting. If you switch your home server, you lose the bonus from your previous home world and are not eligible for the bonus for your new server at least until the beginning of the next battle for the Mists. We may extend this disqualification into the next match or possibly even longer to discourage people from switching servers right before a battle ends in order to get an awesome bonus. You will have to pay a fee to change your home server (price undetermined), and that will also discourage people from server hopping to chase world bonuses.
This is making me reconsider buying GW2. A good community is my bottom line for playing any game, more important than winning or losing. Not being able to reroll to find a good server is a serious flaw.
This is exactly the kind of system you want in place to ensure healthy WvW competition. It would be a complete mess if everyone could just easily switch the server they are fighting for. That's the entire point of a small fee. It will keep most people from switching willy nilly, but if it's important for you to switch servers for WvW, you can pay to switch. Given that there is no monthly fee, seems silly to complain about this.
This is exactly the kind of system you *DON'T* want in place to ensure healthy WvW.
If switching servers is a potential problem then the answer is to limit that through time delays. Limit how often someone may switch and implement a cooldown before they can receive benefits from WvW buffs.
Any serious pvp competitor isn't going to be phased by a cash penalty. All this does is show that any imbalance doesn't matter if someone is willing to pay the tax. This sends a message that ANet doesn't care about potential problems they care about a money making opportunity.
There will be in game mechanisms as well to prevent someone from switching for immediate bonuses. Transfer fees are just a part of the bigger picture. A fee makes you think before you leap. One would hope that people who decide to pay the fee will have done a lot more research on the pros and cons of switching and the perceived benefits of the new server before they make the jump. No fee leads to uninformed, knee jerk server transfers.
A fee can't possibly have any negative impact on WvW and server balance, so what is your actual point of contention? That you should be entitled to a free server transfer when ever you want? That if you don't plan server choice with friends or your guild ahead of time, it isn't fair to have to pay a fee because of your lack of forethought? Are you just too cheap to pay a fee for services rendered for a game that doesn't even charge a monthly fee?
It appears as though GW2 accounts will be locked into one "home server" for WvW.
That is, all characters for one account are limited to their original server for WvW. You cannot reroll on another server to WvW for them. If you want to switch servers, you must pay to move your entire account.
Some of our more astute fans asked about the complications involved with switching servers and how it would interact with world bonuses. Every account has a home server where your characters are created. You can only fight for your home world in WvW. You can visit other servers, and while you are visiting, you still get the world bonus from your home world instead of the bonus for the world you are visiting. If you switch your home server, you lose the bonus from your previous home world and are not eligible for the bonus for your new server at least until the beginning of the next battle for the Mists. We may extend this disqualification into the next match or possibly even longer to discourage people from switching servers right before a battle ends in order to get an awesome bonus. You will have to pay a fee to change your home server (price undetermined), and that will also discourage people from server hopping to chase world bonuses.
This is making me reconsider buying GW2. A good community is my bottom line for playing any game, more important than winning or losing. Not being able to reroll to find a good server is a serious flaw.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Trion offers free server transfers to their subscribed customers. Just as ANet is trying to show that a sub-fee isn't necessary to operate a fully funcitonal MMO, Trion has show that these sorts of services can be provided at no additional charge.
I did not know that. That is certainly a good thing, but if I am not mistaken, they charge a monthly fee. by choosing to not have a monthly fee, Arenanet charges for items or services you actually receive. If I want the new content or the cosmetic thing or the character/account service, I pay. I don't pay each month for the privilege of logging in. I prefer this. If, however, you charge a monthly fee for maintenance and then do not charge for services like this one, I think that is fine too, so long as you are giving players their money's worth. Rift bored the crap out of me, so I never played enough to know if that is the case. If so, I am glad.
I do see a trend of companies (EA excluded) trying to demonstrate that they care about their players (true or not) and are not just trying to soak up money. Show us that we are getting our money's worth, and we will be happier.
Originally posted by AvatarBlade I can understand why they chose to bind an account to a server and make you pay to transfer, beside the money making part, so people don't spy on other servers they are matched against at a certain time. However you can't compare it to another MMO that charges you to move a char, because in those you always have the option of starting from lvl 1 again on a different server, without paying. Here you can't do this without paying.
The major difference is that in those cases, from what I know of other games, you are not partaking in a server A vs. server B vs. server C system. With the way you can be level 80 and compete straightaway, you could do some serious griefing if you could roll a new character on any server. The way they do their sidekicking up and down makes level largely meaningless in many places, PvP included. They want to prevent people abusing systems, and this is a necessary way to do so.
I do not know if you can delete all of your characters and then switch servers without a fee. If you cannot, that might be a problem. It might be a good idea, even with that, to institute a wait period before you can make new characters, to prevent abuse, but I think if you delete all of your characters, you have no vested interests and there is no reason to make you pay to move to where you want, as you are starting from scratch. If you cannot do that, that could be a problem. Otherwise, this system is both good and necessary given the other existing mechanics with regard to PvP.
Edit: I also think there needs to be a grace period from when your first ever character is created, in which you can transfer as much as you want. Obviously you would get no bonuses at all if you switch for however long they want that to be. But I think maybe a month, or even two, from when we all start playing on day one, to move around and settle into a communities, is a great idea, if not a must for a game like this. Once we settle down into communities, switching will not be as important, and the people doing it will be doing so to be with specific people or to be on a certain PvP realm. That's fine, and should be charged for. But when we are all starting out, none of us will know what servers we should be on, which is best for whom, or even necessarily which server our IRL or in-game friends are on, and letting us all move around for a bit at first would alleviate so many problems some games have.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Imo the "problem" still stay roughly the same even if you can play in other servers at anytime, especially for people that will like the Mist very much and have it as their main gaming content. You'll want to play and share the success with your best friends, so you'll want to be in the same mist as them. So if the problem is not that accentuated it still exist for those people. The only important thing i guess is that they still let people swap very rarely.
I understand the point the above posters are making with regards to balance and time delays. I disagree that charging is a discouragement and not a cash grab.
I can say, from my own experience, that getting stuck on a server you don't like or that doesn't fit you can really make a game not worth playing. If Trion hadn't offered free server transfers I wouldn't be playing and subscribing to the game today.
That of course is the disadvantage of B2P versus P2P. Once I buy the game ANet has little incentive to provide these incentives and perks. I could end up on a server that I don't fit in with, find that my friends are on other servers, and then be stuck. It doesn't sound appealing to me.
This kind of language irks me. Please remember that you are not paying a subscription, yet they are doing a cash grab? Your whole post is full of conflicting points. Please re-read your own post. I think some perspective realignment is in order.
This is silly... what other game came you switch all your characters to a new home server for free? At least in GW2 you can go to any server you want to play on for free, just can't switch the home server for free.
Originally posted by Barkam Originally posted by Torvaldr I understand the point the above posters are making with regards to balance and time delays. I disagree that charging is a discouragement and not a cash grab. I can say, from my own experience, that getting stuck on a server you don't like or that doesn't fit you can really make a game not worth playing. If Trion hadn't offered free server transfers I wouldn't be playing and subscribing to the game today. That of course is the disadvantage of B2P versus P2P. Once I buy the game ANet has little incentive to provide these incentives and perks. I could end up on a server that I don't fit in with, find that my friends are on other servers, and then be stuck. It doesn't sound appealing to me.
This kind of language irks me. Please remember that you are not paying a subscription, yet they are doing a cash grab? Your whole post is full of conflicting points. Please re-read your own post. I think some perspective realignment is in order.
This is the kind of thing I just don't get. They are not being greedy enough to make you pay a subscription, so everything should be free? In Guild Wars, name changes and recustomization are fee-based services. You are paying for the privilege. Just as with transfers.
You can play the game already, for free. You are paying for the privilege to play on a different server. These are the kinds of things that should be fee-based. You can already play the entire game, for good, once you buy it. Why should these extra things be free, I ask?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I understand the point the above posters are making with regards to balance and time delays. I disagree that charging is a discouragement and not a cash grab.
I can say, from my own experience, that getting stuck on a server you don't like or that doesn't fit you can really make a game not worth playing. If Trion hadn't offered free server transfers I wouldn't be playing and subscribing to the game today.
That of course is the disadvantage of B2P versus P2P. Once I buy the game ANet has little incentive to provide these incentives and perks. I could end up on a server that I don't fit in with, find that my friends are on other servers, and then be stuck. It doesn't sound appealing to me.
This kind of language irks me. Please remember that you are not paying a subscription, yet they are doing a cash grab? Your whole post is full of conflicting points. Please re-read your own post. I think some perspective realignment is in order.
This is the kind of thing I just don't get. They are not being greedy enough to make you pay a subscription, so everything should be free? In Guild Wars, name changes and recustomization are fee-based services. You are paying for the privilege. Just as with transfers.
You can play the game already, for free. You are paying for the privilege to play on a different server. These are the kinds of things that should be fee-based. You can already play the entire game, for good, once you buy it. Why should these extra things be free, I ask?
I think the issue is: when does a B2P game become F2P?
With charging for rerolls on new servers (something that is free in most other MMO's), ArenaNet is skirting the F2P line.
Plus, we don't have any confirmation about what will be in the store yet. It is entirely possible that GW2 flips over totally into F2P territory.
I doubt that will happen, but it is a valid concern.
Rithwis, Righteous Golem of Camelot | Skritha, Orc Archer of Tamriel | Bloodwod, Sawbones of Auraxis | Thrumdi, Blue Norn of Tyria | Gwidwod, Spider of the Ettenmoors | Gideon Slack, Hunter of Alsius
I understand the point the above posters are making with regards to balance and time delays. I disagree that charging is a discouragement and not a cash grab.
I can say, from my own experience, that getting stuck on a server you don't like or that doesn't fit you can really make a game not worth playing. If Trion hadn't offered free server transfers I wouldn't be playing and subscribing to the game today.
That of course is the disadvantage of B2P versus P2P. Once I buy the game ANet has little incentive to provide these incentives and perks. I could end up on a server that I don't fit in with, find that my friends are on other servers, and then be stuck. It doesn't sound appealing to me.
This kind of language irks me. Please remember that you are not paying a subscription, yet they are doing a cash grab? Your whole post is full of conflicting points. Please re-read your own post. I think some perspective realignment is in order.
This is the kind of thing I just don't get. They are not being greedy enough to make you pay a subscription, so everything should be free? In Guild Wars, name changes and recustomization are fee-based services. You are paying for the privilege. Just as with transfers.
You can play the game already, for free. You are paying for the privilege to play on a different server. These are the kinds of things that should be fee-based. You can already play the entire game, for good, once you buy it. Why should these extra things be free, I ask?
I think the issue is: when does a B2P game become F2P?
With charging for rerolls on new servers (something that is free in most other MMO's), ArenaNet is skirting the F2P line.
Plus, we don't have any confirmation about what will be in the store yet. It is entirely possible that GW2 flips over totally into F2P territory.
I doubt that will happen, but it is a valid concern.
Anet is not charging to reroll on new servers. They are blocking W v W new char abuse. Not sure how you dont get the difference?
I understand the point the above posters are making with regards to balance and time delays. I disagree that charging is a discouragement and not a cash grab.
I can say, from my own experience, that getting stuck on a server you don't like or that doesn't fit you can really make a game not worth playing. If Trion hadn't offered free server transfers I wouldn't be playing and subscribing to the game today.
That of course is the disadvantage of B2P versus P2P. Once I buy the game ANet has little incentive to provide these incentives and perks. I could end up on a server that I don't fit in with, find that my friends are on other servers, and then be stuck. It doesn't sound appealing to me.
This kind of language irks me. Please remember that you are not paying a subscription, yet they are doing a cash grab? Your whole post is full of conflicting points. Please re-read your own post. I think some perspective realignment is in order.
This is the kind of thing I just don't get. They are not being greedy enough to make you pay a subscription, so everything should be free? In Guild Wars, name changes and recustomization are fee-based services. You are paying for the privilege. Just as with transfers.
You can play the game already, for free. You are paying for the privilege to play on a different server. These are the kinds of things that should be fee-based. You can already play the entire game, for good, once you buy it. Why should these extra things be free, I ask?
I think the issue is: when does a B2P game become F2P?
With charging for rerolls on new servers (something that is free in most other MMO's), ArenaNet is skirting the F2P line.
Plus, we don't have any confirmation about what will be in the store yet. It is entirely possible that GW2 flips over totally into F2P territory.
I doubt that will happen, but it is a valid concern.
Anet is not charging to reroll on new servers. They are blocking W v W new char abuse. Not sure how you dont get the difference?
That's not true. ArenaNet is blocking free rerolls on new servers. You must pay (amount, whether ingame currency or RL $$ undecided). There is also some talk of a grace period after launch.
All accounts are tried to one server on creation. All toons you create must be on this server.
In PvE (and I believe structured PvP), you can play with friends on other servers without moving your account. In WvW, however, there will be a fee to move or reroll.
And for what it's worth, these restrictions exist because of the way ArenaNet's set up their server system. Everything is account-based, rather than server-based.
Rithwis, Righteous Golem of Camelot | Skritha, Orc Archer of Tamriel | Bloodwod, Sawbones of Auraxis | Thrumdi, Blue Norn of Tyria | Gwidwod, Spider of the Ettenmoors | Gideon Slack, Hunter of Alsius
What other game forces you to play on a server unless you pay a fee to switch?
Um, every game that I can think of that allows server transfers charges per character, with no free transfers at all, and they all have monthly fees as well. Blizzard charges $25 per character for server transfers in WoW.
In what way is this worse, people? Seriously.
No, you are not forced to play on a specific (in GW2s case the first one you log on to I think) forever and ever (in WvWvW for nitpickers) unless you pay a cash fee in any MMO I'm aware of (your regular wow clones). There is something called rerolling it's free and allows you to change server albeit at the cost of your character which early on is more or less neglible. The important thing is you aren't penalized for a mistake by having to fork out cash to rectify it. Hopefully this won't be the case in GW2.
I really like this. I've always thought you should be restricted to one server in any game where PVP is important. In my opinion, this here is an eloquent solution to how you do that without making the players feel like they're doomed if they choose a server they end up disliking.
I think they should allow transfer fees using both Real Money and in-game currency. And to put a cooldown on it as well, so that you won't be able to change servers every couple of days, *even if* you're willing to pay the fee for it.
I find it amusing that there are already complaints about it. The main reason I see people complaining is that they clearly want to be able to freely change their home server to one that is consistently winning WvW. Some try masking their desire by saying ‘oh, I won't be able to play with my friends/guild’, when you can play with them anyways despite having a different home server. The only thing you apparently can't participate in with them is WvW.
So how bout y’all avoid beating around the bush and say what you truly want. Also know that A-Net isn't one to listen to whining readily as they’ve shown in GW1. If they feel there is some change that is truly necessary for balance, they'll implement the change. However, if it's just whining as many MMORPG players are accustomed to doing, don’t expect them to cater to you.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
I find it amusing that there are already complaints about it. The main reason I see people complaining is that they clearly want to be able to freely change their home server to one that is consistently winning WvW. Some try masking their desire by saying ‘oh, I won't be able to play with my friends/guild’, when you can play with them anyways despite having a different home server. The only thing you apparently can't participate in with them is WvW.
So how bout y’all avoid beating around the bush and say what you truly want. Also know that A-Net isn't one to listen to whining readily as they’ve shown in GW1. If they feel there is some change that is truly necessary for balance, they'll implement the change. However, if it's just whining as many MMORPG players are accustomed to doing, don’t expect them to cater to you.
Amen. Let all the server hoppers bitch & moan. I just hope ArenaNet does what it has to do, for the game's WvW to have a solid server community, without people hopping between servers, willy nilly.
This is not nitpicking, it is important to understand the difference. You can visit any PvE server whenever you like. There's simply no need to actually reroll on a different server. The restriction is only important for WvW.
Looks to me the only people who will bitch about this are those who want to be on the winning servers, or those who want to cheat by planting spies on other servers. Since everything else allows you to play on any server you want. But there is a 3rd group here, those who won't play the game and just make crap up on the forums. I go with door number 3.
This is not nitpicking, it is important to understand the difference. You can visit any PvE server whenever you like. There's simply no need to actually reroll on a different server. The restriction is only important for WvW.
It would have been a valid point if WvW wasn't important but it's shaping up to be THE game in the long term.
I just don't see how anyone can defend the idea of having you select a server when you first log in without knowing anything about said server and then being stuck on that server for eternity if you don't fork out 5+ bucks.
This isn't about cheating, joining the winning side or whatever since I haven't seen anyone actually ask for unlimited free transfers with 0 cooldowns. It's about good design or bad if the above is going to be true. Everywhere I look in GW2 I have seen at least decent design decisions to brilliant but this is the only one that would be horrible if it is as mentioned (which i know isn't decided yet but that makes it a perfect oppertunity to oppose it rather then brownnosing Anet for every little word they say). Lets spell it out in big bold red letters so people don't just read the first line and ignore the rest of the post and make shit up.
LIMITING TRANSFERS = GOOD
ONLY WAY TO TRANSFER = RL CASH = BAD
VERY LIMITED FREE TRANSFER = GOOD
what exactly the very limited would be can be debated such as a certain number of switches per account, very (very) long cooldowns or even ingame currency altough I oppose that because if someone picks the wrong server for whatever reason they'd be stuck there for a very long time having to lvl up etc first and if not then the fee isn't high enough to prevent people from hopping around anway but then there could be a mix of these aswell IE free on long CD and the ability to grind up to do it/buy it from cash shop, that sounds good to me.
Well...here's the thing. In an important way, this is very good. It will prevent many folks from just server hopping to the most winning WvW server, simply because they can. Yes, you will have those who will pay to move, but you'll find many refusing to do that. In a way, ANet is forcing "realm pride". You're not going to win 100% of the time, but if you're losing more than half, then the community of that server is going to have to figure out a way to win.
It doesn't even take the entire community to win, but rather, an organized force who can lead through example. In all the years I have been pvping in mmos, I have never won because our team was obviously more skilled. I have won because there was a good amount of communication and leadership from a few people.
The home server lock is ONLY for WvW. You can still PvE with your friends, and you can still PvP with your friends on different servers. You cannot PvP in WvW with your friends on different servers though.
SINCE you can enter WvW from level 1, they cannot let you just reroll on a different server. Although, some might argue that this may make for an interesting dynamic if they could implement it as a feature and keep it balanced.
The point of this the home server lock is to prevent you from cheating.
IF you roll on server x, but your friend rolls on server y, you can hope over to server y and play with your friend in PvE or structured PvP. All progress you make on server y will be tied to your account, so it will appear on your server or any other server you go to.
Remember, again, structured PvP is not tied to servers. You enter a lobby showing games going on across all servers, and you can enter any server.
This is remiscent of the old European vs American server divide in GW1. In the earlier days of GW1, your account was generally tied to either European or American server, because of the favor of the gods (which allowed you access to areas such as the Underworld). You could only switch between the servers so many times, otherwise you were out of luck. They changed all that when they tied favor of the gods to title track completion, so now you can change to whatever server you want at any time.
This lock is ONLY for WvW, and not for anything else. For anything else, you are free to change to wherever you wish and play with whomever you wish using your current character. As I said, in many ways it's like the Hall of Heroes/favor of the gods system in GW1. You DO NOT need to make a new character on server y in order to play on it, if your home server is server x. You can just go play on server y with your level 80 character. You are free to make a level 1 character and play on server y, if you wish. You just, again, won't be able to do WvW from that server.
And again, THEY HAVE NOT FINALIZED ANY DETAILS YET. We do NOT know if how you will pay for home server change, what the penalty is, and whether they'll allow a grace period. All we know is that if you like to change servers a lot, sucks for you.
Originally posted by HoiPoloi I think the issue is: when does a B2P game become F2P? With charging for rerolls on new servers (something that is free in most other MMO's), ArenaNet is skirting the F2P line. Plus, we don't have any confirmation about what will be in the store yet. It is entirely possible that GW2 flips over totally into F2P territory. I doubt that will happen, but it is a valid concern.
Really? I thought they all charged until someone mentioned Rift. And even if they were free, they charge a monthly fee. Could you maybe name a couple others that do it for free? I know Blizzard charges $25 per character for server transfers.
Giving you the game for free and charging for services seems fair to me. Why does it not seem fair to you? And in what way does this make it free to play? You get the entire game, all content, on purchase. Compare that to, say, DDO, where you can't even level up past a certain level without buying something or getting a lucky drop. You can't go into many dungeons without buying access to them. This is not the case with GW2. You get all the content, all the time.
It isn't free to play. You know it, I know it, we all know it, and the comparison is tired, stupid, and known to be wrong. It is not a valid concern, at all. Look at the GW1 store if you want to know what will bei n the GW2 store. They have said time and again it'll be the same sort of thing. This isn't going into free to play territory, and it never will, and we all know it. Or if you don't know it, you aren't paying attention.
Originally posted by bookworm438 And again, THEY HAVE NOT FINALIZED ANY DETAILS YET. We do NOT know if how you will pay for home server change, what the penalty is, and whether they'll allow a grace period. All we know is that if you like to change servers a lot, sucks for you.
That last bit is by far the most important. Let's not freak out over soemthing we don't know yet.
I can see, though, why people would be upset. WvWvW is a huge part of the game, and being unable to PvP there with your friends *is* a big deal, even if you can do everything else. For some people, WvWvW is going to be the main thing they play. So there really needs to be some system in place that lets people get sorted after launch day and be with their friends. And that part needs to be free. You can charge if they want more transfers, but letting people shift around a bit at the start when you have a system in which you can't just reroll, is almost mandatory. In another game, I pick a different server from all my other friends. I can reroll and do be with them. If I am only a few hours into the game, it doesn't much matter. New character, done, delete the old one. But that isn't an option for GW2.
What I think would be best is a ten dollar fee or thereabouts to change, for the whole account, with one, maybe two free transfers allowed per account. This lets you move to be with those friends, or wait until things die down to move to a server that suits you. I know I would certainly want to move to whichever server is the most RPer heavy.
The bottom line is that they simply cannot allow you reroll on a new server. The way upleveling for PvP works would make it so easy to cheat and grief and cause all sorts of mischief. It is like WoW. When I played (I don't know about now), you could not have an Alliance or a Horde character on the same PvP server. It would be too easy to cheat. In GW2, they have the added problem of people being able to be 80 straight out of the gate. So while we don't really know anything yet, you can bet you won't be changing servers a lot. And that is a good thing for WvWvW.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Comments
I hope they have time delays as well. Also, I wouldn't call bandwagoners "serious pvp competitors." Competitors want... well... competition. Otherwise, people like Usain Bolt would run at the Special Olympics every year.
Thread Awareness 101
1. Check Topic (If topic itself is ridiculous, walk away)
2. Read OP, if you find yourself going WHAT THE SH*T IS THIS? and see the join date after. (walk away)
3. If the join date is relevent, check posting history. If its been mostly trolling. (Walk away)
4. If history is relevent and user has other concerns that he/she discussed and came to somewhat of an understanding. (Discuss the topic at hand)
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
There will be in game mechanisms as well to prevent someone from switching for immediate bonuses. Transfer fees are just a part of the bigger picture. A fee makes you think before you leap. One would hope that people who decide to pay the fee will have done a lot more research on the pros and cons of switching and the perceived benefits of the new server before they make the jump. No fee leads to uninformed, knee jerk server transfers.
A fee can't possibly have any negative impact on WvW and server balance, so what is your actual point of contention? That you should be entitled to a free server transfer when ever you want? That if you don't plan server choice with friends or your guild ahead of time, it isn't fair to have to pay a fee because of your lack of forethought? Are you just too cheap to pay a fee for services rendered for a game that doesn't even charge a monthly fee?
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Baka janai, anata?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I do not know if you can delete all of your characters and then switch servers without a fee. If you cannot, that might be a problem. It might be a good idea, even with that, to institute a wait period before you can make new characters, to prevent abuse, but I think if you delete all of your characters, you have no vested interests and there is no reason to make you pay to move to where you want, as you are starting from scratch. If you cannot do that, that could be a problem. Otherwise, this system is both good and necessary given the other existing mechanics with regard to PvP.
Edit: I also think there needs to be a grace period from when your first ever character is created, in which you can transfer as much as you want. Obviously you would get no bonuses at all if you switch for however long they want that to be. But I think maybe a month, or even two, from when we all start playing on day one, to move around and settle into a communities, is a great idea, if not a must for a game like this. Once we settle down into communities, switching will not be as important, and the people doing it will be doing so to be with specific people or to be on a certain PvP realm. That's fine, and should be charged for. But when we are all starting out, none of us will know what servers we should be on, which is best for whom, or even necessarily which server our IRL or in-game friends are on, and letting us all move around for a bit at first would alleviate so many problems some games have.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Imo the "problem" still stay roughly the same even if you can play in other servers at anytime, especially for people that will like the Mist very much and have it as their main gaming content. You'll want to play and share the success with your best friends, so you'll want to be in the same mist as them. So if the problem is not that accentuated it still exist for those people. The only important thing i guess is that they still let people swap very rarely.
im totally fine with home server account lock. Hey, theres no monthly fees ! hehehe
This kind of language irks me. Please remember that you are not paying a subscription, yet they are doing a cash grab? Your whole post is full of conflicting points. Please re-read your own post. I think some perspective realignment is in order.
This is silly... what other game came you switch all your characters to a new home server for free? At least in GW2 you can go to any server you want to play on for free, just can't switch the home server for free.
Wow, good news.
I hope this counters one of todays problems with PvP: people mostly join the winning site, so the unbalance gets bigger and bigger.
This is the kind of thing I just don't get. They are not being greedy enough to make you pay a subscription, so everything should be free? In Guild Wars, name changes and recustomization are fee-based services. You are paying for the privilege. Just as with transfers.
You can play the game already, for free. You are paying for the privilege to play on a different server. These are the kinds of things that should be fee-based. You can already play the entire game, for good, once you buy it. Why should these extra things be free, I ask?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I think the issue is: when does a B2P game become F2P?
With charging for rerolls on new servers (something that is free in most other MMO's), ArenaNet is skirting the F2P line.
Plus, we don't have any confirmation about what will be in the store yet. It is entirely possible that GW2 flips over totally into F2P territory.
I doubt that will happen, but it is a valid concern.
Rithwis, Righteous Golem of Camelot | Skritha, Orc Archer of Tamriel | Bloodwod, Sawbones of Auraxis | Thrumdi, Blue Norn of Tyria | Gwidwod, Spider of the Ettenmoors | Gideon Slack, Hunter of Alsius
Anet is not charging to reroll on new servers. They are blocking W v W new char abuse. Not sure how you dont get the difference?
That's not true. ArenaNet is blocking free rerolls on new servers. You must pay (amount, whether ingame currency or RL $$ undecided). There is also some talk of a grace period after launch.
All accounts are tried to one server on creation. All toons you create must be on this server.
In PvE (and I believe structured PvP), you can play with friends on other servers without moving your account. In WvW, however, there will be a fee to move or reroll.
And for what it's worth, these restrictions exist because of the way ArenaNet's set up their server system. Everything is account-based, rather than server-based.
Rithwis, Righteous Golem of Camelot | Skritha, Orc Archer of Tamriel | Bloodwod, Sawbones of Auraxis | Thrumdi, Blue Norn of Tyria | Gwidwod, Spider of the Ettenmoors | Gideon Slack, Hunter of Alsius
No, you are not forced to play on a specific (in GW2s case the first one you log on to I think) forever and ever (in WvWvW for nitpickers) unless you pay a cash fee in any MMO I'm aware of (your regular wow clones). There is something called rerolling it's free and allows you to change server albeit at the cost of your character which early on is more or less neglible. The important thing is you aren't penalized for a mistake by having to fork out cash to rectify it. Hopefully this won't be the case in GW2.
I really like this. I've always thought you should be restricted to one server in any game where PVP is important. In my opinion, this here is an eloquent solution to how you do that without making the players feel like they're doomed if they choose a server they end up disliking.
I think they should allow transfer fees using both Real Money and in-game currency. And to put a cooldown on it as well, so that you won't be able to change servers every couple of days, *even if* you're willing to pay the fee for it.
I find it amusing that there are already complaints about it. The main reason I see people complaining is that they clearly want to be able to freely change their home server to one that is consistently winning WvW. Some try masking their desire by saying ‘oh, I won't be able to play with my friends/guild’, when you can play with them anyways despite having a different home server. The only thing you apparently can't participate in with them is WvW.
So how bout y’all avoid beating around the bush and say what you truly want. Also know that A-Net isn't one to listen to whining readily as they’ve shown in GW1. If they feel there is some change that is truly necessary for balance, they'll implement the change. However, if it's just whining as many MMORPG players are accustomed to doing, don’t expect them to cater to you.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
Amen. Let all the server hoppers bitch & moan. I just hope ArenaNet does what it has to do, for the game's WvW to have a solid server community, without people hopping between servers, willy nilly.
This is not nitpicking, it is important to understand the difference. You can visit any PvE server whenever you like. There's simply no need to actually reroll on a different server. The restriction is only important for WvW.
Looks to me the only people who will bitch about this are those who want to be on the winning servers, or those who want to cheat by planting spies on other servers. Since everything else allows you to play on any server you want. But there is a 3rd group here, those who won't play the game and just make crap up on the forums. I go with door number 3.
It would have been a valid point if WvW wasn't important but it's shaping up to be THE game in the long term.
I just don't see how anyone can defend the idea of having you select a server when you first log in without knowing anything about said server and then being stuck on that server for eternity if you don't fork out 5+ bucks.
This isn't about cheating, joining the winning side or whatever since I haven't seen anyone actually ask for unlimited free transfers with 0 cooldowns. It's about good design or bad if the above is going to be true. Everywhere I look in GW2 I have seen at least decent design decisions to brilliant but this is the only one that would be horrible if it is as mentioned (which i know isn't decided yet but that makes it a perfect oppertunity to oppose it rather then brownnosing Anet for every little word they say). Lets spell it out in big bold red letters so people don't just read the first line and ignore the rest of the post and make shit up.
LIMITING TRANSFERS = GOOD
ONLY WAY TO TRANSFER = RL CASH = BAD
VERY LIMITED FREE TRANSFER = GOOD
what exactly the very limited would be can be debated such as a certain number of switches per account, very (very) long cooldowns or even ingame currency altough I oppose that because if someone picks the wrong server for whatever reason they'd be stuck there for a very long time having to lvl up etc first and if not then the fee isn't high enough to prevent people from hopping around anway but then there could be a mix of these aswell IE free on long CD and the ability to grind up to do it/buy it from cash shop, that sounds good to me.
Well...here's the thing. In an important way, this is very good. It will prevent many folks from just server hopping to the most winning WvW server, simply because they can. Yes, you will have those who will pay to move, but you'll find many refusing to do that. In a way, ANet is forcing "realm pride". You're not going to win 100% of the time, but if you're losing more than half, then the community of that server is going to have to figure out a way to win.
It doesn't even take the entire community to win, but rather, an organized force who can lead through example. In all the years I have been pvping in mmos, I have never won because our team was obviously more skilled. I have won because there was a good amount of communication and leadership from a few people.
I'll restate what I wrote earlier:
The home server lock is ONLY for WvW. You can still PvE with your friends, and you can still PvP with your friends on different servers. You cannot PvP in WvW with your friends on different servers though.
SINCE you can enter WvW from level 1, they cannot let you just reroll on a different server. Although, some might argue that this may make for an interesting dynamic if they could implement it as a feature and keep it balanced.
The point of this the home server lock is to prevent you from cheating.
IF you roll on server x, but your friend rolls on server y, you can hope over to server y and play with your friend in PvE or structured PvP. All progress you make on server y will be tied to your account, so it will appear on your server or any other server you go to.
Remember, again, structured PvP is not tied to servers. You enter a lobby showing games going on across all servers, and you can enter any server.
This is remiscent of the old European vs American server divide in GW1. In the earlier days of GW1, your account was generally tied to either European or American server, because of the favor of the gods (which allowed you access to areas such as the Underworld). You could only switch between the servers so many times, otherwise you were out of luck. They changed all that when they tied favor of the gods to title track completion, so now you can change to whatever server you want at any time.
This lock is ONLY for WvW, and not for anything else. For anything else, you are free to change to wherever you wish and play with whomever you wish using your current character. As I said, in many ways it's like the Hall of Heroes/favor of the gods system in GW1. You DO NOT need to make a new character on server y in order to play on it, if your home server is server x. You can just go play on server y with your level 80 character. You are free to make a level 1 character and play on server y, if you wish. You just, again, won't be able to do WvW from that server.
And again, THEY HAVE NOT FINALIZED ANY DETAILS YET. We do NOT know if how you will pay for home server change, what the penalty is, and whether they'll allow a grace period. All we know is that if you like to change servers a lot, sucks for you.
Giving you the game for free and charging for services seems fair to me. Why does it not seem fair to you? And in what way does this make it free to play? You get the entire game, all content, on purchase. Compare that to, say, DDO, where you can't even level up past a certain level without buying something or getting a lucky drop. You can't go into many dungeons without buying access to them. This is not the case with GW2. You get all the content, all the time.
It isn't free to play. You know it, I know it, we all know it, and the comparison is tired, stupid, and known to be wrong. It is not a valid concern, at all. Look at the GW1 store if you want to know what will bei n the GW2 store. They have said time and again it'll be the same sort of thing. This isn't going into free to play territory, and it never will, and we all know it. Or if you don't know it, you aren't paying attention.
That last bit is by far the most important. Let's not freak out over soemthing we don't know yet.
I can see, though, why people would be upset. WvWvW is a huge part of the game, and being unable to PvP there with your friends *is* a big deal, even if you can do everything else. For some people, WvWvW is going to be the main thing they play. So there really needs to be some system in place that lets people get sorted after launch day and be with their friends. And that part needs to be free. You can charge if they want more transfers, but letting people shift around a bit at the start when you have a system in which you can't just reroll, is almost mandatory. In another game, I pick a different server from all my other friends. I can reroll and do be with them. If I am only a few hours into the game, it doesn't much matter. New character, done, delete the old one. But that isn't an option for GW2.
What I think would be best is a ten dollar fee or thereabouts to change, for the whole account, with one, maybe two free transfers allowed per account. This lets you move to be with those friends, or wait until things die down to move to a server that suits you. I know I would certainly want to move to whichever server is the most RPer heavy.
The bottom line is that they simply cannot allow you reroll on a new server. The way upleveling for PvP works would make it so easy to cheat and grief and cause all sorts of mischief. It is like WoW. When I played (I don't know about now), you could not have an Alliance or a Horde character on the same PvP server. It would be too easy to cheat. In GW2, they have the added problem of people being able to be 80 straight out of the gate. So while we don't really know anything yet, you can bet you won't be changing servers a lot. And that is a good thing for WvWvW.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman