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The Problem with Darkfall
Back in 2004-5 I was an avid supporter of this game. I would tell all my friends about it and say it would be the next big thing.
In that time, Claus, Tasos and Brannoc would be on constantly talking about some of the ideas they were implementing.
Some of them included Raising Armies, Raining Fire down on Player owned cities.
It was obvious to LOTS of people that something grand was being made and the Darkfall forums got 1 million people signed up.
Then they obviously realised something in the development team - they had a pretty decent, newish, server technology.
In 2006, the game was supposed to release for beta, but got backburnered. When it came down that it was being rewritten everyone figured it would be even better. Instead it was turned into a FPS - which is fine - but also ALL those previous ideas were binned.
In short - They compromised.
Instead they made a game to showcase their new server technology.
And now more than half the people who made characters in beta have macro'd their way to end-game. Are casting all spells in full armor and there's no real roleplaying in it because the game has for the most part attracted only the FPS community.
Now the game has deteriorated to forum censorship, and forum bans rather than deal with the issues people bring up in their posts.
When EVE Online did something (monoclegate) that brought thousands of people to jita to riot over, they changed. There were apologies and people generally patted them on the head afterwards and realised CCP had just made a mistake.
The problem with AV is they have lost the ability to change. Instead they are stuck in the old mindset of "upgrade graphics" or "dumb down mechanics".
If they can add some rich gameplay to the game, I would come back.
But until that happens, it's just not worth $15 a month.
Comments
define "rich gameplay".....
Not sure if you've played eve online.
Let me give you some examples of interacting with the community.
Now I will give you the point straight off that EVE and CCP are very successful brands in the MMO/Niche/Sandbox market.
Every year they get all the players to vote on a set of players to represent them TO CCP - the CSM.
Each year those players travel to Iceland (CCP Pays) to talk with CCP and visit upon ideas for gameplay improvements and generally give players a voice.
http://www.evenews24.com/2012/03/02/seleenes-sandbox-eves-industrial-revolution/
In this link you will find a 3rd party in-game news website, where they have showcased the platform for one of the people who are standing for CSM this year.
Now I agree this is the enth degree of interaction with players. But is that insight they gain from it not worth it?
If you take a look by comparison. AV has half the posts on their forums over the past 2-3 years being derogatory, negative or just plain rude to them. And the change is where? They seem to think that just openining a new market in asia will be the answer to their current problems.
The fact that characters can login to DF and swing a sword isn't enough to call it a sandbox. DF has now been out for quite a while and still no change to the bland crafting or serious thought put into trade hubs, markets or anything else that makes players even interact more with EACH OTHER.
It is a sad tale, a cautionary tale, but it's also a true tale.
When looking at player numbers in darkfall, keep this in mind if you think the player numbers are ok - UO still has players too - there's always going to be someone to play your game. But to answer the question of if it is a good game that's popular, you need to see the player numbers skyrocket at SOME point. EVE has done that, DF hasn't.
The question at that point is "why?" and you can only lay the fault at the feet of AV.
And now they are at the point where they are censoring their forums AND IRC.
They literally have people sitting there ready to delete your posts or hand out infractions because "we're not letting you say that" is now the answer to their bad game.
One company gives players a voice, the other takes it away. How is this going to end well for AV?
My EVE YouTube Channel
if you beef is with AV not listening to their players then all i can say is: you are wasting your time, it's their game and they can run it the way they want it."
i have played EvE even if not for a long time. you have to keep in mind that EvE has a much much large player base then DF simply because they managed to incorporate a gameplay for pver as well as pvpers in one of the most balanced setting possible. this has allowed for the comunity to grow. lets face it you need both to grow a comunity.
DF on the other hand has, from the beginning, pretty much only catered to the hard core pvper. sadly that niche is very small and pvpers tend to destroy comunites more then grow them. DF never made any space for those that like the game but didn't want to have to deal with greefers and gankers all day long. this has seriously crippled it's growth.
it is hard to find investoros for a game that hasn't shown growth in years.
imo AV does't have the money to improve the game all that much, and they are sort of stuck with a very few hard core pvpers that are bored out of their minds, but no one else will touch the game with a 10 foot pole. if they introduce pve frinedly features then they piss of their few remaing players, if they continue catering to the pvpers they keep excluding the huge majority of mmo players.
it's a difficult situation.
I've played both EvE and Darkfall for quite some time and I'm not too sure if the OP has played DF at all or is just going by what he/she has read.First , it's not a "FPS" it's more of a "hybrid" I guess since you switch between FPS and TPS depending on what type of weapon you are using .Second , the crafting system in game is what has kept a lot of people going, is it perfect ...no but it has gone thru some changes since launch to better itself.Third , a sandbox by definition is " A plaything consisting of sand to be played in " .. meaning the elements are there for everyone to use how they see fit.In this aspect DF does well IMO since it's all about conflict and making your own end-game.
Now I do agree that AV did change a lot of things they said they were going to do , I won't argue that , but after they also have maintained the game for 3 years now and let's face it they has the worst launch of an MMO ever. For a small compony like AV , they have done pretty well compared to some others out there.
Lol, Darkfall not a sandbox. You sure you know what a sandbox game is?
There was only one?
Just because they added a third person perspective to the game (much because of players complaining), it doesn't mean it isn't a shooter. There is no targetting, it is quite literally Unreal Tournament, but worse. DF is not a true sandbox. There are sandbox elements, but they cater too much to the hardcore PvPer.
The bottom line is, they made a lot of bad decisions when coming up with a game design.
Here's just a few examples, and you guys can add to it if you'd like.
Deciding to design a game with FFA PvP and full loot. I'm not saying this is a poor choice, but compound that with the following and they only shot themselves in the foot, maybe both feet.
With that environment in mind, they made it exclusively first person. AV has changed melee to third person since launch, but combat isn't drastically different and first impressions are a killer. For all the people saying how first person is so immersive, they should answer me this. What is more immersive? First person or an empty game world? That's what you get with first person, since there are significantly better alternatives out there in MMO's today. (Unlike when EQ was around)
With full loot and DDA PvP, you make a very dangerous game environment for the player. Making it hard to see your surroundings makes this choice even worse. People already don't like being killed and losing their gear, no matter how easy it is to replace. Giving the advantage to the ganker is not the way to design your game if you want a lot of players.
Making combat unfamiliar to most gamers is another bad choice, as it pushes even more people away. There are not many FPS twitch games out there, so making this choice is beyond my comprehension. What this does is caters to the younger more coordinated players. It pushes older and more casual gamers away from the game. Yet another design flaw. Tab targetting, with levels and skills can work just fine. But AV decided against it, where the logic was in that choice, I do not know.
Then on to the skills portion. There is no skill point cap and you cannot create multiple character slots. One of the biggest gripes of people who have played DF and people who currently aren't, but love the sandbox genre is that there is no skill point cap. A skill point cap creates diversity without characters. It prevents the same demi-god build throughout the game world. People just become copies of each other and it stagnates gameplay. Whether that be PvE or PvP. Multiple characters creates replayability since you can't be awesome at everything with a skill point cap. It keeps people playing your game, and for much longer. It helps players to believe that they can compete with vets, and it would be true. It wouldn't take so long because you wouldn't need as many skills to be viable.
These are just a few major flaws in the game design that has ruined the experience for the vast majority of players out there. There are many more, but if these few mechanics were properly designed to begin with, AV wouldn't be up against the wall with their playerbase. Make it more hardcore and lose any casuals you may still have. Make the game more accessible and familiar with new players and run the risk of destroying your current playerbase.
Server wipe, tab targetting, third person, skill point cap, redesign combat, skills, multiple character slots, mob AI, UI, animations, graphics, crafting is fine BTW, and add more sandbox elements. Housing other than guild hamlets and such. Until the core of the game is fixed though, it really doensn't matter what you add.
Just my opinion.
Darkfall was never intended for the masses and " tab targeting" was never in the process. Bottom line , the game was not made for you.
Lol, tab targeting really?
agree, the day darkfall loaunched they gave up on all sandbox features pretty much, its just a pvp game and the devs have no interest in trying to turn it into the game they revealed to us before release.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I pretty much agree with all you've said OP, however I'm not too sure about the censorship part. AV has been pretty "liberal" as far as forum moderation goes. People are still trashing AV left and right, forum is filled with negative comments and for the most part they are never deleted. So I'll have to disagree on that part, but otherwise, your post is pretty much spot on.
Actaully, they aren't liberal anymore.
I personally have had 3 posts in the past month deleted entirely, and am now banned for having spoken out against that.
It has seriously declined from a year or so ago when you could literally "say anything" and now we're left with censorship as a marketing tool by the company as far as I can see.
Many people have posted today most agreeing but a few not so... So I'd like to make a few points.
A FPS is one where there's not really any targetting (like tab targetting or any other flavor) that's basically the definition right there of a shooter - whether or not guns are involved.
As far as gameplay is concerned - maybe it DOES only cater now to PVPers, but that's also NOT the definition of a sandbox. I notice you asked if I'd ever played darkfall - I have. In fact I do know that it was originally designed and supposed to BE a sandbox - and that MEANS creating gameplay for the PVEr as well as the PVPer.
The entire scope of a sandbox should and will never be limited to PVP-only - that is by definition not a sandbox. That is in fact the entire idea of the word - to differentiate games that are limited in gameplay to ones that are not.
In any case, I thought it should be know that AV is now censoring fairly heavily their forums in case people didn't already realise this fact. They are basically taking out any negative comments or queries. One thread I believe was shut down merely because someone ADMITTED to macroing all through early-game - and they couldn't have that be known I guess?
They also include in their definition of things that may be censored .. IRC - altho I doubt many people use that as much ?
Have a good one, see you all in EVE.
I might leave here my EVE Online YouTube page for ppl to check out some of the fights I've been in recently in that game. Alas still - there's no spells yet
We live in hopes of a fantasy sandbox I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/user/thefinn12345/videos
My EVE YouTube Channel
thefinn is right. Censorship policy changed seems over at AV. Forumfall best known for his unfiltered content and freedom of speech
its now degraded.
I am not sure when this started to happen exactly, i guess with the new investor and with AV wanted to present a better picture of themselves, but the first big censorship was disabling the comments on their blog updates.
The problem with Darkfall IMO is not so much something that went wrong in the past but their current prioritys and change of paradigm. They simply show no will anymore or even want to try to implement a sandbox game.
They have given up on it obviously and they just after a big PvP Themepark Arena and for that goal they willing to go over the corpses of their longterm supporters even.
Resembles the NGE somehow.
(PS: don't agree with definition of FPS. Tab targeting isn't part of definition of FPS, there are some FPS games you can lock on targets as well. FPS is just that you perspective is that of the char in game not more and not less.)
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$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
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