Been wondering all day, am i the only one shocked about the $150 they are asking for their collectors edition?
And i am even more shocked that there are people willing to pay that for stuff that ends in the trashbin sooner or later.
I think its a good example of a company trying to rip off their loyal fanbase. Following in the footsteps of EA's pricing scheme for the SWTOR boxes is not a good thing.
If they continue down this road, with their itemshop we might be in for a sad and shattered dream.
I'm more shocked by fans who complain about it.
It's like they want the CE edition of the game but they want to only have to pay the regular price for it.
That being said. I guess it wouldn't hurt if they offered the consumers more products to choose from. Possibly a version with everything besides the statue.
Someone should post that suggestion on their forums.....
Really? Wanting money for an exclusive package is now "ripping off their fanbase"? What keeps you/them from just buying the regular package for what's most likely going to be around $60? Whatever happened to charging two-figure amounts of money for content that should've been in the original release in the first place *peeks over to EA*, what would that be, then?
They're offering what's looking to be a great game for no sub-fee but instead to the regular price, the CE is entirely optional, and still it's worth complaining about - seriously? CEs are luxury, and by definition, luxury isn't cheap. Nobody complains about Starbucks charging $4 for colored water, they just don't freaking buy it.
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
I was kind of bummed when Swtor pulled the same trick and I am really glad I didn't cave in to buying the CE in hindsight, but at least GW2 won't take15 bucks out of your account each month in addition. Still it's kind of abusive .... poor fans :P
Personally I learned my lesson and won't jump on pre-purchase trains no longer. Especially not before a game has endured some solid player scrutiny (i.e. up to and including "end game") and before an NDA drop.
good post.
my advice to everyone is simple.. dont buy CE, wait until the game is out, until you have tested it or at least nda is lifted.
when a company put a high price tag on their products, and that product is 'hidden' from the potential sellers.. id say.. something slicky is going on.
time for people to start buying after seeing the product and not before.. pre purchase trains = you get cheated easly.
Been wondering all day, am i the only one shocked about the $150 they are asking for their collectors edition?
And i am even more shocked that there are people willing to pay that for stuff that ends in the trashbin sooner or later.
I think its a good example of a company trying to rip off their loyal fanbase. Following in the footsteps of EA's pricing scheme for the SWTOR boxes is not a good thing.
If they continue down this road, with their itemshop we might be in for a sad and shattered dream.
you're right. they should give everything away for free.
I was kind of bummed when Swtor pulled the same trick and I am really glad I didn't cave in to buying the CE in hindsight, but at least GW2 won't take15 bucks out of your account each month in addition. Still it's kind of abusive .... poor fans :P
Personally I learned my lesson and won't jump on pre-purchase trains no longer. Especially not before a game has endured some solid player scrutiny (i.e. up to and including "end game") and before an NDA drop.
good post.
my advice to everyone is simple.. dont buy CE, wait until the game is out, until you have tested it or at least nda is lifted.
when a company put a high price tag on their products, and that product is 'hidden' from the potential sellers.. id say.. something slicky is going on.
time for people to start buying after seeing the product and not before.. pre purchase trains = you get cheated easly.
GW2 has probably been the most transparently developed game in history. There is nothing hidden about it, I know more about this game than any other pre-release MMO and certainly more than any console game I have ever purchased. Not to mention the countless players who have tried it at games conventions or the thousands of hours of game footage on YouTube.
Been wondering all day, am i the only one shocked about the $150 they are asking for their collectors edition?
And i am even more shocked that there are people willing to pay that for stuff that ends in the trashbin sooner or later.
I think its a good example of a company trying to rip off their loyal fanbase. Following in the footsteps of EA's pricing scheme for the SWTOR boxes is not a good thing.
If they continue down this road, with their itemshop we might be in for a sad and shattered dream.
Nope,i spend more on a night out,to be honest i sometimes spend double that on a 24 hour bender.
£130 is not alot of money in this day and age,how much does a teacher earn these days anyway?
I have mixed feelings about CEs, in general. I mean, I don't buy them, they seem like crap to me, unless they're just a few extra bucks for some useful in-game stuff, but I don't think that's what CE are supposed to be about. They're supposed to be about collectibles, that people can cherish, and maybe even pretend will go up in value, or something like that.
They're for collectors, not players just looking for the best version of the boxed game. They should be on the pricey side, and most people should be well aware they aren't the target audience for that sort of thing. While the few people that love spending lots of money on useless toys can be happy to do so.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Been wondering all day, am i the only one shocked about the $150 they are asking for their collectors edition?
And i am even more shocked that there are people willing to pay that for stuff that ends in the trashbin sooner or later.
I think its a good example of a company trying to rip off their loyal fanbase. Following in the footsteps of EA's pricing scheme for the SWTOR boxes is not a good thing.
If they continue down this road, with their itemshop we might be in for a sad and shattered dream.
Who's more of a fool...person who asks for 150$ or person who pays 150$?
I think its a good example of a company trying to rip off their loyal fanbase. Following in the footsteps of EA's pricing scheme for the SWTOR boxes is not a good thing.
Yes, outrageous that the company is trying to sell the possibly best MMO in existence asking 60$ for a lifetime access. *eyeroll*
Personally I have no money to spend on a 150$ edition with fluff, who cares about that anyway? All you need is right there, priced at only 60$.
And FYI, there are many who make 150$ a day online.. for them it's pocket money. I see no reason not to rip them off In fact I'd put out a 399$ edition as well, just for them :P
GW2 has probably been the most transparently developed game in history. There is nothing hidden about it, I know more about this game than any other pre-release MMO and certainly more than any console game I have ever purchased. Not to mention the countless players who have tried it at games conventions or the thousands of hours of game footage on YouTube.
Well, Sir, you're quick to jump to conclusions, aren't you. Problem is: Most of it, until the press beta, was just a company trying to sell their product and getting the hype going. What a developer promises and what he eventually delivers are two very different animals.
We've seen this all before, so this "transparent" development you speak of is neither a guarantee nor is it that innovative. And game companies have often let players try their game at various conventions - one example I personally had the pleasure to play was Warhammer Online, and we all know how great that turned out to be. So that's no selling point either.
What could be a selling point, however, is the press beta. Turns out ANet are geniuses at marketing.
But while I disagree with you, I also disagree with DarkPony and Eduardo. I couldn't give less of a crap on players' opinions, because they are an insatiable and spoiled bunch, tending to mark a product as subpar because they personally didn't find any joy in it.
Usually I can assume that the press handles things differently, since they're professionals lighting the product from various angles. The only thing I can count on when taking a look at the overall gamer response to a game is how they behave in the game. Crappy community more often than not equals a crappy game experience.
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
People vote with their wallet, if people buy CE's for 150 dollars or unicorns in the cash shop then Anet has a reason to continue with such products. If Anet starts selling power in the cash shop and people are against that, people should stop buying expansions. Stop whining.
People vote with their wallet, if people buy CE's for 150 dollars or unicorns in the cash shop then Anet has a reason to continue with such products. If Anet starts selling power in the cash shop and people are against that, people should stop buying expansions. Stop whining.
Yeah I think they are going to listen to customers even more. Say I don't like what they are doing and I don't buy the next expansion. . then if they fix things up near the release of the second one. . I have to buy two expansions and may decide not to. If there is large negative feedback I think they will be quick to adjust.
From an official GW2 hater (me):- I actually see nothing wrong with the price, the Rytlock figurine looks solid and if you're a fan I guess the other crap is worth a decent amount too. Then we come to the stuff you'll get in-game, which lets remind ourselves, is what they expecting you to buy regularly for the game to continue.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, so when you have to sell it to them up front for them to see, morons get upset "waaaahwahhh I want free!". Calm down, calm down, look there's a window over there, go have a lick.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, ...
So true, unfortunately. I'm hoping they'll stay true to their promise of not including any P2W stuff. It's probably just wishful thinking, but still.
Also, mrw0lf:
"there's a window, go have a lick" == karma++
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
People vote with their wallet, if people buy CE's for 150 dollars or unicorns in the cash shop then Anet has a reason to continue with such products. If Anet starts selling power in the cash shop and people are against that, people should stop buying expansions. Stop whining.
Mayve you can straighten a dog's tail but these two things are not possible.
From an official GW2 hater (me):- I actually see nothing wrong with the price, the Rytlock figurine looks solid and if you're a fan I guess the other crap is worth a decent amount too. Then we come to the stuff you'll get in-game, which lets remind ourselves, is what they expecting you to buy regularly for the game to continue.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, so when you have to sell it to them up front for them to see, morons get upset "waaaahwahhh I want free!". Calm down, calm down, look there's a window over there, go have a lick.
I take it you must not have played GW1. Good job generalizing something you probably have no experience with though (the B2P model), and just taking what you likely heard from several trolls who understand just as little as you and trying to claim it as fact. This isnt their first B2P game, and anyone who actually played GW and knows anything about it knows there wasnt any "hiding the cost of playing".
I still dont get what is so hard for people to understand about the word optional. Items sold in GW1 were optional, there wasnt stuff that gave people advantages ove rother people that you needed to buy to compete. Just like this CE. There is no reason whatsoever to purchase the CE unless you want those extra items, there is nothing that youre going to miss out on by not buying it, yet I constantly see people posting in this thread that they dont want them but somehow feel theyre being ripped ff by the $150 cost.
Do I feel 'ripped off' with the clear pricing and clear statement of contents? Nah, it's my choice and there is nothing in there that is must have in a gaming sense.
I don't buy CE editions of games generally, hell I am one to wait for a Steam sale or a GOTY edition, but I will be treating myself to this. The last time I did that was for the Big Daddy version of Bioshock... some games you just get a feeling about.
What I find interesting is the community reaction though. Think some are a bit too over-the-top.
Agreed.
I was thinking of getting a CE for myself and deluxe for the wife, but we'll probably go 2 x deluxe.
Why? I'm not a big collector, but I was obsessed enough with GW2 that the items would be worth it. No, the main reason is that I can't be bothered dealing with the inevitable hassle and delays involved in getting it to Australia (if it's even possible). Therefore, digital download all the way.
From an official GW2 hater (me):- I actually see nothing wrong with the price, the Rytlock figurine looks solid and if you're a fan I guess the other crap is worth a decent amount too. Then we come to the stuff you'll get in-game, which lets remind ourselves, is what they expecting you to buy regularly for the game to continue.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, so when you have to sell it to them up front for them to see, morons get upset "waaaahwahhh I want free!". Calm down, calm down, look there's a window over there, go have a lick.
I take it you must not have played GW1. Good job generalizing something you probably have no experience with though (the B2P model), and just taking what you likely heard from several trolls who understand just as little as you and trying to claim it as fact. This isnt their first B2P game, and anyone who actually played GW and knows anything about it knows there wasnt any "hiding the cost of playing".
I still dont get what is so hard for people to understand about the word optional. Items sold in GW1 were optional, there wasnt stuff that gave people advantages ove rother people that you needed to buy to compete. Just like this CE. There is no reason whatsoever to purchase the CE unless you want those extra items, there is nothing that youre going to miss out on by not buying it, yet I constantly see people posting in this thread that they dont want them but somehow feel theyre being ripped ff by the $150 cost.
...and if anyone needed any further proof of just how well it works or how easy it is ^^.
Yes, yes kaiser now come on, I've already shown you where the window was.
Right... stop preaching, it really draws flames and shoots a light at trolls.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
From an official GW2 hater (me):- I actually see nothing wrong with the price, the Rytlock figurine looks solid and if you're a fan I guess the other crap is worth a decent amount too. Then we come to the stuff you'll get in-game, which lets remind ourselves, is what they expecting you to buy regularly for the game to continue.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, so when you have to sell it to them up front for them to see, morons get upset "waaaahwahhh I want free!". Calm down, calm down, look there's a window over there, go have a lick.
I take it you must not have played GW1. Good job generalizing something you probably have no experience with though (the B2P model), and just taking what you likely heard from several trolls who understand just as little as you and trying to claim it as fact. This isnt their first B2P game, and anyone who actually played GW and knows anything about it knows there wasnt any "hiding the cost of playing".
I still dont get what is so hard for people to understand about the word optional. Items sold in GW1 were optional, there wasnt stuff that gave people advantages ove rother people that you needed to buy to compete. Just like this CE. There is no reason whatsoever to purchase the CE unless you want those extra items, there is nothing that youre going to miss out on by not buying it, yet I constantly see people posting in this thread that they dont want them but somehow feel theyre being ripped ff by the $150 cost.
...and if anyone needed any further proof of just how well it works or how easy it is ^^.
Yes, yes kaiser now come on, I've already shown you where the window was.
How easy what was? Oh you mean the whole still not having any proof or logic whatsoever to backup your reasoning? Yeah thats usually pretty easy to do for people talking out their ass about things they know nothing about. But i guess you probably feel that paying a subscription to "pay for the cost of running servers", or whatever excuse they use, is somehow not getting screwed out of your money for other games. Hmmm... paying a forced fee every month in order to even play a game vs paying no forced sub and choosing wether or not to buy things if you feel theyre worth the cost.
Gee you sure sound like youre making the smart informed decision. Damn youre so smart. I wish I could be smart enough to continuously pay the full price of a product I already paid for every 3-4 months, even when the price of the product itself drops to what Im paying monthly. I want to pay 4-10x the full cost of buying the game every year just to keep playing too so that i can stop licking these windows.
From an official GW2 hater (me):- I actually see nothing wrong with the price, the Rytlock figurine looks solid and if you're a fan I guess the other crap is worth a decent amount too. Then we come to the stuff you'll get in-game, which lets remind ourselves, is what they expecting you to buy regularly for the game to continue.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, so when you have to sell it to them up front for them to see, morons get upset "waaaahwahhh I want free!". Calm down, calm down, look there's a window over there, go have a lick.
I take it you must not have played GW1. Good job generalizing something you probably have no experience with though (the B2P model), and just taking what you likely heard from several trolls who understand just as little as you and trying to claim it as fact. This isnt their first B2P game, and anyone who actually played GW and knows anything about it knows there wasnt any "hiding the cost of playing".
I still dont get what is so hard for people to understand about the word optional. Items sold in GW1 were optional, there wasnt stuff that gave people advantages ove rother people that you needed to buy to compete. Just like this CE. There is no reason whatsoever to purchase the CE unless you want those extra items, there is nothing that youre going to miss out on by not buying it, yet I constantly see people posting in this thread that they dont want them but somehow feel theyre being ripped ff by the $150 cost.
...and if anyone needed any further proof of just how well it works or how easy it is ^^.
Yes, yes kaiser now come on, I've already shown you where the window was.
How easy what was? Oh you mean the whole still not having any proof or logic whatsoever to backup your reasoning? Yeah thats usually pretty easy to do for people talking out their ass about things they know nothing about. But i guess you probably feel that paying a subscription to "pay for the cost of running servers", or whatever excuse they use, is somehow not getting screwed out of your money for other games. Hmmm... paying a forced fee every month in order to even play a game vs paying no forced sub and choosing wether or not to buy things if you feel theyre worth the cost.
Gee you sure sound like youre making the smart informed decision. Damn youre so smart. I wish I could be smart enough to continuously pay the full price of a product I already paid for every 3-4 months, even when the price of the product itself drops to what Im paying monthly. I want to pay 4-10x the full cost of buying the game every year just to keep playing too so that i can stop licking these windows.
No one is forced to pay for anything. people pay because they want to. I can stop paying a monthly sub whenever i want. If only you knew how ironic your whole rant really is.
Comments
I am always shocked by the prices of CEs. Luckily for me I never buy them lol...
I'm more shocked by fans who complain about it.
It's like they want the CE edition of the game but they want to only have to pay the regular price for it.
That being said. I guess it wouldn't hurt if they offered the consumers more products to choose from. Possibly a version with everything besides the statue.
Someone should post that suggestion on their forums.....
Really? Wanting money for an exclusive package is now "ripping off their fanbase"? What keeps you/them from just buying the regular package for what's most likely going to be around $60? Whatever happened to charging two-figure amounts of money for content that should've been in the original release in the first place *peeks over to EA*, what would that be, then?
They're offering what's looking to be a great game for no sub-fee but instead to the regular price, the CE is entirely optional, and still it's worth complaining about - seriously? CEs are luxury, and by definition, luxury isn't cheap. Nobody complains about Starbucks charging $4 for colored water, they just don't freaking buy it.
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
good post.
my advice to everyone is simple.. dont buy CE, wait until the game is out, until you have tested it or at least nda is lifted.
when a company put a high price tag on their products, and that product is 'hidden' from the potential sellers.. id say.. something slicky is going on.
time for people to start buying after seeing the product and not before.. pre purchase trains = you get cheated easly.
So glad you can get all the in-game items with the digital deluxe. Not really interested in the statue or any of the rest.
you're right. they should give everything away for free.
GW2 has probably been the most transparently developed game in history. There is nothing hidden about it, I know more about this game than any other pre-release MMO and certainly more than any console game I have ever purchased. Not to mention the countless players who have tried it at games conventions or the thousands of hours of game footage on YouTube.
Nope,i spend more on a night out,to be honest i sometimes spend double that on a 24 hour bender.
£130 is not alot of money in this day and age,how much does a teacher earn these days anyway?
They obviously need the money to maintain servers, since they are so expensive, more money to produce further content, and money to bug fix.
OH WAIT!
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I have mixed feelings about CEs, in general. I mean, I don't buy them, they seem like crap to me, unless they're just a few extra bucks for some useful in-game stuff, but I don't think that's what CE are supposed to be about. They're supposed to be about collectibles, that people can cherish, and maybe even pretend will go up in value, or something like that.
They're for collectors, not players just looking for the best version of the boxed game. They should be on the pricey side, and most people should be well aware they aren't the target audience for that sort of thing. While the few people that love spending lots of money on useless toys can be happy to do so.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Who's more of a fool...person who asks for 150$ or person who pays 150$?
Yes, outrageous that the company is trying to sell the possibly best MMO in existence asking 60$ for a lifetime access. *eyeroll*
Personally I have no money to spend on a 150$ edition with fluff, who cares about that anyway? All you need is right there, priced at only 60$.
And FYI, there are many who make 150$ a day online.. for them it's pocket money. I see no reason not to rip them off
In fact I'd put out a 399$ edition as well, just for them :P
My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570
Well, Sir, you're quick to jump to conclusions, aren't you. Problem is: Most of it, until the press beta, was just a company trying to sell their product and getting the hype going. What a developer promises and what he eventually delivers are two very different animals.
We've seen this all before, so this "transparent" development you speak of is neither a guarantee nor is it that innovative. And game companies have often let players try their game at various conventions - one example I personally had the pleasure to play was Warhammer Online, and we all know how great that turned out to be. So that's no selling point either.
What could be a selling point, however, is the press beta. Turns out ANet are geniuses at marketing.
But while I disagree with you, I also disagree with DarkPony and Eduardo. I couldn't give less of a crap on players' opinions, because they are an insatiable and spoiled bunch, tending to mark a product as subpar because they personally didn't find any joy in it.
Usually I can assume that the press handles things differently, since they're professionals lighting the product from various angles. The only thing I can count on when taking a look at the overall gamer response to a game is how they behave in the game. Crappy community more often than not equals a crappy game experience.
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
People vote with their wallet, if people buy CE's for 150 dollars or unicorns in the cash shop then Anet has a reason to continue with such products. If Anet starts selling power in the cash shop and people are against that, people should stop buying expansions. Stop whining.
Yeah I think they are going to listen to customers even more. Say I don't like what they are doing and I don't buy the next expansion. . then if they fix things up near the release of the second one. . I have to buy two expansions and may decide not to. If there is large negative feedback I think they will be quick to adjust.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
From an official GW2 hater (me):- I actually see nothing wrong with the price, the Rytlock figurine looks solid and if you're a fan I guess the other crap is worth a decent amount too. Then we come to the stuff you'll get in-game, which lets remind ourselves, is what they expecting you to buy regularly for the game to continue.
This kind of price model relies on hiding the cost of playing and just nibbling away at the wallet so that morons don't realise they're actually paying for something, so when you have to sell it to them up front for them to see, morons get upset "waaaahwahhh I want free!". Calm down, calm down, look there's a window over there, go have a lick.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
So true, unfortunately. I'm hoping they'll stay true to their promise of not including any P2W stuff. It's probably just wishful thinking, but still.
Also, mrw0lf:
"there's a window, go have a lick" == karma++
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
Mayve you can straighten a dog's tail but these two things are not possible.
I take it you must not have played GW1. Good job generalizing something you probably have no experience with though (the B2P model), and just taking what you likely heard from several trolls who understand just as little as you and trying to claim it as fact. This isnt their first B2P game, and anyone who actually played GW and knows anything about it knows there wasnt any "hiding the cost of playing".
I still dont get what is so hard for people to understand about the word optional. Items sold in GW1 were optional, there wasnt stuff that gave people advantages ove rother people that you needed to buy to compete. Just like this CE. There is no reason whatsoever to purchase the CE unless you want those extra items, there is nothing that youre going to miss out on by not buying it, yet I constantly see people posting in this thread that they dont want them but somehow feel theyre being ripped ff by the $150 cost.
Is it expensive? Yep.
Will I be buying it? Yep.
Do I feel 'ripped off' with the clear pricing and clear statement of contents? Nah, it's my choice and there is nothing in there that is must have in a gaming sense.
I don't buy CE editions of games generally, hell I am one to wait for a Steam sale or a GOTY edition, but I will be treating myself to this. The last time I did that was for the Big Daddy version of Bioshock... some games you just get a feeling about.
Not shocked as CE are now $150, get used to it.
What I find interesting is the community reaction though. Think some are a bit too over-the-top.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Agreed.
I was thinking of getting a CE for myself and deluxe for the wife, but we'll probably go 2 x deluxe.
Why? I'm not a big collector, but I was obsessed enough with GW2 that the items would be worth it. No, the main reason is that I can't be bothered dealing with the inevitable hassle and delays involved in getting it to Australia (if it's even possible). Therefore, digital download all the way.
Right... stop preaching, it really draws flames and shoots a light at trolls.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
How easy what was? Oh you mean the whole still not having any proof or logic whatsoever to backup your reasoning? Yeah thats usually pretty easy to do for people talking out their ass about things they know nothing about. But i guess you probably feel that paying a subscription to "pay for the cost of running servers", or whatever excuse they use, is somehow not getting screwed out of your money for other games. Hmmm... paying a forced fee every month in order to even play a game vs paying no forced sub and choosing wether or not to buy things if you feel theyre worth the cost.
Gee you sure sound like youre making the smart informed decision. Damn youre so smart. I wish I could be smart enough to continuously pay the full price of a product I already paid for every 3-4 months, even when the price of the product itself drops to what Im paying monthly. I want to pay 4-10x the full cost of buying the game every year just to keep playing too so that i can stop licking these windows.
No one is forced to pay for anything. people pay because they want to. I can stop paying a monthly sub whenever i want. If only you knew how ironic your whole rant really is.