Death penalties should not be any worse for 'PKers' (it's ridiculous that in an online combat game there can be a stigma AGAINST attacking other people - that's the whole point of having combat online at ALL, not standing around and watching each other attack bots)(yeh i know about the crafting and all, but most mmos are primarily combat games).
EDIT: I like the idea of the ghost system, btw. It's very fun.
What if it was expanded tho? What if being a ghost wasn't just a temporary inconvenience when you die, but something that people could choose as their major occupation? Have a flesh/spirit balance. Most ppl concentrate 99% of their power in their flesh, making their avatar as powerful as it can be, with just that 1% left over so that they won't die, but instead can become a ghost and get resurrected. However, the longer you stay in your 'ghost' form, the more powerful your ghost becomes.
The first positive benefit of this is that it explains and sets up an easy system for death penalty. The death penalty has made no sense before (you're resurrected, but as a weaker form? If you can resurrect someone, why can't you do it right?). However, this would explain it. Since you spent time as a ghost, your flesh form became weaker while your ghost got stronger. There could even be visible signs (you could be paler, skinnier, etc). This would also set up quite a good system. PPL who play as a team (you seem to want that, since you have set up a 2 faction war) will have support magicians around them when they go to pvp, meaning they can be quickly resurrected. Their death penalty will be very low, because they spent practically no time as a spirit. PPL who 'lone wolf' it have to be more careful (as is realistic) because they might spend a long time looking for someone to resurrect them (or maybe spots around the land that can do it, ruins that have magical properties that resurrect you, but these would be widely spaced). They could really weaken their body in the time they are aghost.
But it would also be a fun alternative. Ghosts WOULD be a little weaker. Lower percentage level ghosts couldn't even attack humans, or interact with anyone (other than maybe necromancers, or magicians (so they could get ppl to resurrect them). However, as they get stronger, they would begin to be able to interract with humans. First talk with them (making them valuable reconnaisance players). As they begin to be able to talk to ppl, they also begin to drain them. Ghosts touching humans will bring them more towards spirit. This will weaken them ingame. It will also temporarily strengthen that ghost. THat will be the main ghost ability, draining the enemy to help their friends, or just to cause havoc.
However, as they get more powerful, (more ghost percentage) they also get more ghosty abilities. Lowest level ghosts (ppl who are usually fleshies, but just died) would basically be invisible (except to other ghosts) humans (pale whities to ghosts ). However, as they get more ghosty and less fleshy, they gain more ghost related abilities. First the ability to hover (with increasing speed). This will help ppl who are stuck as a ghost more quickly find a res point or wizard, but it will also make ghosts better at reconnaisance and of course spreading havoc. Then as they get more powerful, they get other stuff, like the ability to pass thru walls, the ability to fly (in a limited fashion, there's a height and time limit that expands as they get more ghosty).
PPL who are like 99% ghost and high level will be potent forces on the battlefield. However, like i said, ghosts interacting with humans will obtain a glow, so they can be seen (the spectral form and all that). They wouldn't be able to be affected by weapons, but magic would have limited effect, and there could even be special ghost killer magic .
Oh, and ghosts would have some kind of combat system between themselves as well. A ghost couldn't really 'die' but just be drained down and made basically useless. But in a large battle you'd have the melee'rs going at it, magickers and archers slinking in arrows and energy from the back, ghosts draining all involved, and other ghosts trying to foil the enemy ghosts. It'd be pretty cool.
I know that was a long rant, and prolly a system like that would take too long to code or wouldn't fit in your game, but the idea just popped into my head.
OOH, and completely ghosty ghosts posessing NPCs and mobs would be cool
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
The response from everyone that has replied has surprised a lot of the people in the office. But I knew the best way to make sure the game will be a hit is to make sure we know what the players actually want. Im glad we have had a lot of feedback.
Aqualung343: There will be a lot more info coming soon. Once the Legal Department give us the go ahead I hope MMORPG.com will add our game to there list as well. Beta will probably be awhile off yet but we will be adding outside testers for alpha testing. If you would like to be considered for it P.M me your email and your system specs and ill give your name over on Monday. We like to reward people who help us and your guys have done. If anyone else that has given any help on this topic wants to get into alpha testing P.M me your emails and system specs and ill pass the details over to the correct person.
Yoruyonaka: The class system is still a work in progress. We are still trying to work out something that we think will work very well in our game world. The idea about using an Axe and your strength with go up as well as axe skill is what we had in mind to go along with the normal levelling system.
The combat system we currently have is a lot like the games already on the market. Except I feel it has a more hack and slash feel to it. The combat we currently have is the type that will need your full concentration.
The tank issue. This is a hard one to do really because we believe that the more time you put into your character the stronger it should become. But at the same time we also believe that if there was someone say level 5 and someone level 10 and the level 5 person has more skill than the level 10 person then the level 10 person should lose. But finding a good balance for this has been hard work at the moment. Once we have a new class system working we will spend a lot of time getting this balance correct.
If you would like to alpha test please P.M me your email and system specs.
Dekoth: The main story of our game wouldnt work with ghosts. I cant explain the reason but if we introduced ghosts into our game we would have to change a huge chunk of the story/cinematics/quests that we currently have working.
Death penalty is an issue we are currently working on. Any feedback you guys have on this issue would be a great help.
If we do include body loot which it looks like we will on alpha test anyway. We wont make it that you drop your entire items and accessories. You will leave a corpse and on that corpse will be some items and some gold. The items will first come from your bag then from your body. Sometimes you may not drop anything and other times you may drop everything your wearing. Its all luck. The only time you wont drop items is if you insure them using the insurance feature.
Kruell: Firstly thank you. We believe the best people to get ideas from are the people that will pay for the game.
We intend there to be a lot of items. We are trying to make them all look different and feel different from each other also. We dont like the idea that just because the training weapons will only be used for a few hours that they should all look the same. So we are making unique items for everything.
All fighting will be real time.
The working combat system at the moment doesnt include the ability to aim or dodge attacks the way you mentioned but this may change once the class system changes.
Thank you for your class ideas I will pass them on to our Lead Programmer.
Yoruyonaka: As our game doesnt really include illegal Pking there wont be worse death penalties for Pkers as for normal players.
Gary Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
Originally posted by T.GEnt T.G Enterprises is a new Company. Formed by mainly friends and family. We are seeking to enter the MMORPG market with our Flag Ship MMORPG. We dont want to release a lot of information on this game at the moment as we are still in development stages. We have our races/cities/nations and back-story ready and will be working on the classes and quests/npcs next. But we would like some feedback from yourselves about what sort of class system you think would be best. At the moment we are looking at a class/skill system together. As in there are classes but also within the classs you will be able to level up your skill with certain weapons. The crafting system we have I think is probably going to be an entire separate game in itself for the complexity of it but it will also be able to be very user friendly for the people that dont want to mainly craft. So the question we have for you guys is: What sort of leveling/class system would you most like to see? The web site and forum will be up in about a month once we have a few legal issues ironed out.
As I give you my feedback, please understand I am not intending to "attack" either you, your ideas, or your ambition. In fact I admire it. But in brief, a Class/Skill system stinks. Ever play DAoC? They have that sort of thing, and what winds up happening is that you have to limit skill choices to a class and thus you have optimum skill/class combinations. THus why bother? If you're shooting for character variety, you have to let go of the notion of Class entirely, or embrace something what AD&D 3.0/3.5 have done, with the inclusion of Feats, and even then some repeat 'templates' will start to show.
You got a lot of stiff competition to go up against, not sure how big of a splash you want to make in the MMOG industry, but if you're going to be making yet another fantasy genre game, then you're going to have to do things very differently. We already have a Class/Feat game (WoW), a Class/Skill game (DAoC), a Class only (EQ), ect game style. We even have Class/Class/Class/etc system with a focus on crafting (HZ), and they all have a pretty strong budget to work with. If you want to make a go of this as a business, FWIW and IMHO, you have to do stuff different from these guys in not just a point here and there, but from the ground up.
Abandon Class systems. What people have come to want more and more is to make their toon progressively more customized, not just in looks but in play style. May I suggest you take a look at a PnP classic of GURPS? Still surprised no one has tried to render that core system online, as you could host different servers with different themes, i.e. a sci fi set, fantasy 1,2,3 variations, supers, psionics, ect. That has a progression system built in that can be coded fairly easily as well as a customized character creation system. BUt I digress.
Get away from the Class system, include optional/consensual PVP from the ground up, make crafting a option not a requirement. And if its going to be yet another fantasy setting, make having a religious character mean something. So tired of games that reduce people to playing healing bots to complete gameplay. In that sense, WoW really did do a good thing with bandages and food reducing downtime, as did COH with the Inspirations. But seriously, in a fantasy theme, why do character's religion never play a role? Why do clerics (or whatever they're called in the game) not have a heirarchy they have to earn beyond level grinding?
meh...sorry, not really sticking to your question and digressing as I try to answer it. In short, I don't want to see a level/class system. MMOGS need to evolve past that or they will have to include a helluva lot of other content to where I will look at them more closely. Fed up with having to grind constantly and having no options.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Wow I am really curious now to see what T.G Ent have to offer with this game. What you mentioned ealier in your first post on page 3 of this thread really got my attention.
Btw I like your idea of the full body loot scheme. Instead of all loot always being dropped....its done by chance...it could be all your loot which is dropped, some of your loot or else none of your loot....(insure items ofcourse are excluded from this)I really like that nice idea! And good thinking not allowing special (bound) items to be traded to other players if previously were equiped.
I also like the fact that in your game you can change from one side to the other and become a traitor :P very nice! Though I really did get confused in the last part of that paragraph where you tried to explain a little on what I am able to do during the process of my character changing sides. Leave this to when you can reveal more information....must be a real headahce trying to explain features without mentioning detail that may reveal parts of the game...but it helps make me all the bit more curious.
As regards your rewards system....again I was confused...but again because I understand you had to withold detail....I am dying to see what your team has under their sleeves cause you sound pretty confident that this rewards system is going to be a major attraction to the game you are developing. I am interested to see what you meant by the rewards I earn, I earn for my faction....you mentioned earlier in that same post that there were two types of factions.....ofcourse the main factions (like good vs evil as an example) and smaller factions....are these small factions guilds or somthing else? Incase leave this to when you are announced officially.
Hmmm this is a wild guess but I am thinking Bind stones...or something like that. We bind our spirits to some type of object like a bind stone and resurrect from there. This is to Dekoth aswell....the reason I agree with this and not a ghost system is because this is really aimed at PvP, Conflict and Conquest it seems like. Ghosts can be used unfairly to spy on a village as you said before about revenge on tracking a guy back to his house.I don't think its a right thing to do.
If it were possible somehow to have a build board...with lots of requests....lets say you request information on the guy who killed you. To do this you must have a real big grudge against him lol...anyway if it were possible to have a billboard with the desired information or demands on goods and the such. You may get ppl telling you who he is, what guild hes with....and maybe where he lives. Anyway I think its a silly idea because there are always the forums...this is just to provide something similar ingame...but its just a silly idea I think. I would recommend eve's system more of player generated jobs but I don't think it would work out within your game.
Well anyway I like the ghost system honestly....but I think it is not a fair thing to implement into a PvP aimed game. This game as you said in previous posts is aiming to be mainly about PvP. And so taking advantage of what a ghost could do is unfair...I mentioned all this in previous posts.
Anyway look foward to T.G. Entertainment getting the go ahead :P.... I really am interested to know what you have to offer in more detail
I think I know what you wan't....exactly what Ultima Online offered! Its just obvious cause of what you said about having a character totally dedicated to crafting and another character with other abilities. To be honest thats what I would prefer to as well as Open FFA PvP. But when I read the first post of this I was sure they considered to just include a straight skill based system to improve your character were aware of the down sides.
A straight skill based system is my favourite system as well as thousands of other players would say...we all miss Ultima Online and what it offered in Pre Tremmel times. Well the problem with a Straight Skill based system is it requires and encourages constant grinding to improve your stats and thats what is the down side to a straight skill based system. I think DAoC tried to remove this by including the lvl system mixed with the skill system.
I don't know whats wrong exactly with that system....I understand that its still quite popular the game.....and that if you choose a warrior...it must use the skills of a Warrior.
But if it were possible to add a lot of possible skills...the maximum amount of attribute types you could add for a character....and specialisations or the such....now im just comming up with 2 second ideas so nothing I say is really solid. Read my previous posts on Page 1...in a weird way they may give you an idea of what I really mean.
Anyway I hope T.G. Enterprises get it right! Problem is what they seek requires a lot of thinking! I think they should use the 7 thinking hats technique lol. Something I learnt at the College of IT I go to...we were required to do this course on Logical thinking...easy as hell but it taught me how to solve a problem which required a long period of thinking.
Did he say fantasy? I might have missed it, this has been a long post But that could be another reason why ghosts wouldn't work, if it isn't a fantasy type game. As for them being unfair in a pvp environment, that's why i say make it a whole new character type, not just a death avatar, and have defenses against it (you could encircle your guild hall in a barrier that stopped ghosts)
But he's said ghosts won't work, so i'm assuming there's some reason.
NEway, as to looting. While the random system has been proposed before, i'm not too big of a fan of it. I'm more for realism. Insurance is a better system, but why have the two of them together? It's a bit... i dunno, just seems awkward. ANd i REALLY dislike random
How bout loot all, except for what you have insured (a max of a small number of items, whatever number appeals to you, i'd go with 3 (considering a suit of armor as one) so that ppl can insure their most valuable posessions (main weapon, armor, money, or maybe toolset, money, magic item), but the rest is up for loot. Being looted is the worst death penalty. However, you SHOULD be able to retrieve your corpse (and so should your friends be). In addition, there should be no loot all button, ppl should have to pick stuff, that way looting in the middle of battle is a bad idea (so if your buddies win, they can retrieve for you).
Another nice system to tag on with loot would be bounty hunting. Well, kinda. A way to retrieve important items you could not insure (some items should be things you are very careful with)(rare things that are of very limited quantity in the game). You'd go to a bounty hunter and 'tell' them what you wanted (just an interface where you could select things from a list of what has been looted from you. The bounty hunter has some system whereby they can track these things down (preferably a narrowing search, so that it takes time and patience, for instance the first NPC you use a /interrogate on gets you within ten or so miles of the object or person hiding it, the next guy gets you within a mile, the next guy gets you within a hundred yards, the next guy gets you within a block). Then they go in and retrieve it (prolly killing the person who stole it). Course, this system would require that items had to be left ingame (or at least that these rare items did) and that you couldn't just port out with your whole inventory when you logged off. It'd be neat tho.
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
I think deciding on a death penalty at this games time of development should wait....even the full body loot system should wait. I like the idea because if you have a brand new weapon which is so hard to find you had to enter the deepest dungeon to get it....and then you are travelling back home with 3 other friends and suddenly an enemy raiding party arrives and you and your 3 friends have no chance of survival....well then all you can do is die and hope that your uninsured rare weapon can be saved still. Its a fair system....but ofcourse that means you need to be harsher on the death penalty system.
But the problem is you shouldn't decide on a death penalty system untill you have decided on what all the other features to implement are like what system to use for character improvement and development should be....Then when analysing all the features & systems you plan to implement into your game, you may have a better chance of identifying what could be effected by death....This in my opinion will allow a balanced out death system where it will encourage players to avoid death at nearly all costs....(this will probably prevent suicidles and recklass events from taking place). It also makes fights less boring with the worry of death in mind. But there is a limit....I wouldn't recommend that the death penalty effect Exp! In my opinion it makes a player feel like he wasted some of his time playing the game and will demoralise him.
A death penalty is there to make death unpleasant but not to make someone feel so unpleasant that they don't enjoy the game. Its meant to be there to just teach them not to let what happend happen again....ofcourse everyone faces death in MMORPGs.....many more then others because of suicides.
I have no clue what T.G Enterprises have in mind for the death penalty system....but their idea of randomised body loot is a good idea....but in my opinion still lacks in penalty....it needs to be just a tad more harsh....that way players respect life and don't waste their character's life without knowing the consequences. Anyway thats my own opinion and I am not sure if you have anything else in mind or not.
Last night at about 4am the Team had an emergency meeting because the Lead Programmer and me think we have found a good leveling system. We are still working it out today so I will post a new thread either late tonight or tomorrow giving as much detail as possible and hopefully you guys can give some feedback.
Yoruyonaka: The game is fantasy. At the moment we are going with a random system but this may change in testing. As to bounty hunting we have an idea for a system that allows you to charge certain items with energy that will allow players to see where there items are on the map. So they can locate whoever now has their items and they can retrieve them. This will only last a short while an hour maybe. The system is still in planning stages at the moment.
I like your idea about bounty hunting as well but unfortunately it wouldnt work in our game world. Because the NPCS closest to the person who has your item will most likely try to kill you.
Seeker728: Our new system wont have classes at all. I think our game is a lot different than all games on the market at the moment. Some of our features I havent seen in any game ever before. Even the setting of our game I dont know if its been tried before. Our races are totally new apart from the 2 standard human races. Once we can give out a lot more information I think a lot of people will see how different our game is to whats out there at the moment. I hope this will bring more people than scare away though
No one needs to craft if they dont want to. But again no one actually needs to hunt monsters if they dont want to. People could play the game just to become crafters. Or you can stay away from crafting all together.
Our first idea was a class/skill system but our new system doesnt have classes at all.
Thank you and I hope we get it right also. Hopefully if we go wrong along the way we will have people willing to help give us advice to push in the correct direction.
Mikey0114: Thank you I hope everyone feels the same about our loot system once they get a chance to try it.
The traitor idea was the Lead Programmers and he has some amazing ideas for this system. It does get hard sometimes trying to explain things when theres a lot we cant explain.
The Factions sort of go like this. There are two Main factions we will call them good and evil. They are made up of an alliance of smaller factions. These factions are the ones who will get the reward. The two main factions are really just to decide what side you are on. The smaller factions within these factions will be up to your own taste and personality. Again this may not be very helpful as there is a lot we cant say Im afraid.
Your billboard idea is good. There was something like this in another game I played and it worked well. Mainly due to the fact that only about 20% of a games population normally use the games forum. I will give this idea to the right person and see what can be done with it. Thank you.
The death penalty system wont be decided until we have the class system totally balanced out and working well. So that death doesnt unbalance the game.
Thank you for your confidence in us as well. We hope we can bring you a game you will enjoy.
If anyone has any more feedback on the PVP/Loot/Death Penalty systems please give as much feedback as you can. We will make a post tonight or tomorrow about the new class system.
Gary Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
Thank you to everyone that P.Med me. Your information will be passed on to the relevent person today so expect an email within the next 1-2 weeks about alpha testing. You will also be the first people to be sent the information on the game once it is cleared by the Legal Department.
Gary Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
Great to hear that you have a good idea for a character improvement system to use use for your fantasy game!
You said that you have decided to get rid of classes....which if I remember...you may have gotten the idea from feedback that someone said in a previous post in this topic about how its best just to allow the player to customise his own character using skills....so we have the freedom to either choose between a character which has a mix of fighting skills, crafting skills and maybe some other possible skills which don't fit into those two catagories....like Taming, pickpocketing and the such. Then its possible to have a character which is totally focused on fighting and its also possible to have a character which does all your crafting work. It gives the player also a lot of freedom of what he wants. I love this system to be honest.
Currently my favourite existing system is still just a skill based system like UOs where you have total freedom to do make what character you like and it depends on Skills not lvling and time you have played for victory in battle. Sadly for new players to RPG and MMORPGs this style can be a bit tough....so some MMORPGs which adopted this system also placed pre defined characters with all the starting skill points already in place (For example - I choose to be a pre defined Paladin...all starting skill points are used on various skills to do with attributes (mainly strenght), melee combat and divine skills. Down side to this system is that it creates a large degree of grinding within the game world. This can be quite a bore over time and players get sick of it. This is the reason MMORPGs have avoided the skill based system and have gone for a more lvling based system with a tech tree but it didn't change a lot.
Back on to topic! lol....What I have gathered from what little you mentioned you called it a lvling system so I am going to guess its still a lvling/skill system. I am really curious to know what you guys have planned cause it seems like you have a good idea of what could possibly be suitable for a PvP game...atleast thats what I hope. Anyway when you do mention it here....please try to be as brief as possible and try to mention detail to limits of what you are allowed to mention. If you do that then I (and probably others) will be able to hopefully paint an accurate picture of what you mention about the new system your team has in mind. Then I will try to give you honest and balanced feed back on what I think is the good, the bad, the possibilities, consequences and the alternatives...and probably my own personal view of what I think of it.
By the way your idea of allowing players to track items which were robbed by you sounds really great though I do recommend you increase the time to a little more then an hour.... I like the idea....gr8 alternative to a ghost!
As to the death penalty I agree that you should leave it for after you decide on what lvling/skill system to use. That will allow you to see if its possible for anything in the lvling/skill system to actually be affected by the death system...without being too harsh of course.
Anyway I look forward to tonight or tommorrow for a additional information on your new team's idea. Hope its a good one!
Emmmm these are not window famers..... they are game developers....seeing as they are part of a total different industry I doubt they are the same people and I doubt that the Window framer guys would affect their legal rights for their enterprise.
Just to reply about the company. They are an American based company by the looks of their website. So if there company is licensed then it will be in America. We are an English Licensed company. I'm not sure how that effects publishing on the internet ill get the Legal Department to check over that site on Monday and if they are English based they cant be licensed because we are. So they will be closed down.
Gary Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
I'd like to see total customization with regards to progress. Stats going up with level being customized, and being meaningful, unlike certains games, like EQ. I love DAoC specialization points. I'm more inclined to say I would like to see no classes. Let the user define his/her own class by spending spec. points in skills that aren't blocked.
Originally posted by brostyn I'd like to see total customization with regards to progress. Stats going up with level being customized, and being meaningful, unlike certains games, like EQ. I love DAoC specialization points. I'm more inclined to say I would like to see no classes. Let the user define his/her own class by spending spec. points in skills that aren't blocked.
this is very interesting i would love to see that too
Comments
Death penalties should not be any worse for 'PKers' (it's ridiculous that in an online combat game there can be a stigma AGAINST attacking other people - that's the whole point of having combat online at ALL, not standing around and watching each other attack bots)(yeh i know about the crafting and all, but most mmos are primarily combat games).
EDIT: I like the idea of the ghost system, btw. It's very fun.
What if it was expanded tho? What if being a ghost wasn't just a temporary inconvenience when you die, but something that people could choose as their major occupation? Have a flesh/spirit balance. Most ppl concentrate 99% of their power in their flesh, making their avatar as powerful as it can be, with just that 1% left over so that they won't die, but instead can become a ghost and get resurrected. However, the longer you stay in your 'ghost' form, the more powerful your ghost becomes.
The first positive benefit of this is that it explains and sets up an easy system for death penalty. The death penalty has made no sense before (you're resurrected, but as a weaker form? If you can resurrect someone, why can't you do it right?). However, this would explain it. Since you spent time as a ghost, your flesh form became weaker while your ghost got stronger. There could even be visible signs (you could be paler, skinnier, etc). This would also set up quite a good system. PPL who play as a team (you seem to want that, since you have set up a 2 faction war) will have support magicians around them when they go to pvp, meaning they can be quickly resurrected. Their death penalty will be very low, because they spent practically no time as a spirit. PPL who 'lone wolf' it have to be more careful (as is realistic) because they might spend a long time looking for someone to resurrect them (or maybe spots around the land that can do it, ruins that have magical properties that resurrect you, but these would be widely spaced). They could really weaken their body in the time they are aghost.
But it would also be a fun alternative. Ghosts WOULD be a little weaker. Lower percentage level ghosts couldn't even attack humans, or interact with anyone (other than maybe necromancers, or magicians (so they could get ppl to resurrect them). However, as they get stronger, they would begin to be able to interract with humans. First talk with them (making them valuable reconnaisance players). As they begin to be able to talk to ppl, they also begin to drain them. Ghosts touching humans will bring them more towards spirit. This will weaken them ingame. It will also temporarily strengthen that ghost. THat will be the main ghost ability, draining the enemy to help their friends, or just to cause havoc.
However, as they get more powerful, (more ghost percentage) they also get more ghosty abilities. Lowest level ghosts (ppl who are usually fleshies, but just died) would basically be invisible (except to other ghosts) humans (pale whities to ghosts
). However, as they get more ghosty and less fleshy, they gain more ghost related abilities. First the ability to hover (with increasing speed). This will help ppl who are stuck as a ghost more quickly find a res point or wizard, but it will also make ghosts better at reconnaisance and of course spreading havoc. Then as they get more powerful, they get other stuff, like the ability to pass thru walls, the ability to fly (in a limited fashion, there's a height and time limit that expands as they get more ghosty).
PPL who are like 99% ghost and high level will be potent forces on the battlefield. However, like i said, ghosts interacting with humans will obtain a glow, so they can be seen (the spectral form and all that). They wouldn't be able to be affected by weapons, but magic would have limited effect, and there could even be special ghost killer magic
.
Oh, and ghosts would have some kind of combat system between themselves as well. A ghost couldn't really 'die' but just be drained down and made basically useless. But in a large battle you'd have the melee'rs going at it, magickers and archers slinking in arrows and energy from the back, ghosts draining all involved, and other ghosts trying to foil the enemy ghosts. It'd be pretty cool.
I know that was a long rant, and prolly a system like that would take too long to code or wouldn't fit in your game, but the idea just popped into my head.
OOH, and completely ghosty ghosts posessing NPCs and mobs would be cool
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
The response from everyone that has replied has surprised a lot of the people in the office. But I knew the best way to make sure the game will be a hit is to make sure we know what the players actually want. Im glad we have had a lot of feedback.
Aqualung343:
There will be a lot more info coming soon. Once the Legal Department give us the go ahead I hope MMORPG.com will add our game to there list as well. Beta will probably be awhile off yet but we will be adding outside testers for alpha testing. If you would like to be considered for it P.M me your email and your system specs and ill give your name over on Monday. We like to reward people who help us and your guys have done. If anyone else that has given any help on this topic wants to get into alpha testing P.M me your emails and system specs and ill pass the details over to the correct person.
Yoruyonaka:
The class system is still a work in progress. We are still trying to work out something that we think will work very well in our game world. The idea about using an Axe and your strength with go up as well as axe skill is what we had in mind to go along with the normal levelling system.
The combat system we currently have is a lot like the games already on the market. Except I feel it has a more hack and slash feel to it. The combat we currently have is the type that will need your full concentration.
The tank issue. This is a hard one to do really because we believe that the more time you put into your character the stronger it should become. But at the same time we also believe that if there was someone say level 5 and someone level 10 and the level 5 person has more skill than the level 10 person then the level 10 person should lose. But finding a good balance for this has been hard work at the moment. Once we have a new class system working we will spend a lot of time getting this balance correct.
If you would like to alpha test please P.M me your email and system specs.
Dekoth:
The main story of our game wouldnt work with ghosts. I cant explain the reason but if we introduced ghosts into our game we would have to change a huge chunk of the story/cinematics/quests that we currently have working.
Death penalty is an issue we are currently working on. Any feedback you guys have on this issue would be a great help.
If we do include body loot which it looks like we will on alpha test anyway. We wont make it that you drop your entire items and accessories. You will leave a corpse and on that corpse will be some items and some gold. The items will first come from your bag then from your body. Sometimes you may not drop anything and other times you may drop everything your wearing. Its all luck. The only time you wont drop items is if you insure them using the insurance feature.
Kruell:
Firstly thank you. We believe the best people to get ideas from are the people that will pay for the game.
We intend there to be a lot of items. We are trying to make them all look different and feel different from each other also. We dont like the idea that just because the training weapons will only be used for a few hours that they should all look the same. So we are making unique items for everything.
All fighting will be real time.
The working combat system at the moment doesnt include the ability to aim or dodge attacks the way you mentioned but this may change once the class system changes.
Thank you for your class ideas I will pass them on to our Lead Programmer.
Yoruyonaka:
As our game doesnt really include illegal Pking there wont be worse death penalties for Pkers as for normal players.
Gary
Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
That's good that there's no illegal pking, i've always hated the stigma against that in MMOs.
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
As I give you my feedback, please understand I am not intending to "attack" either you, your ideas, or your ambition. In fact I admire it.
You got a lot of stiff competition to go up against, not sure how big of a splash you want to make in the MMOG industry, but if you're going to be making yet another fantasy genre game, then you're going to have to do things very differently. We already have a Class/Feat game (WoW), a Class/Skill game (DAoC), a Class only (EQ), ect game style. We even have Class/Class/Class/etc system with a focus on crafting (HZ), and they all have a pretty strong budget to work with. If you want to make a go of this as a business, FWIW and IMHO, you have to do stuff different from these guys in not just a point here and there, but from the ground up.
Abandon Class systems. What people have come to want more and more is to make their toon progressively more customized, not just in looks but in play style. May I suggest you take a look at a PnP classic of GURPS? Still surprised no one has tried to render that core system online, as you could host different servers with different themes, i.e. a sci fi set, fantasy 1,2,3 variations, supers, psionics, ect. That has a progression system built in that can be coded fairly easily as well as a customized character creation system. BUt I digress.
Get away from the Class system, include optional/consensual PVP from the ground up, make crafting a option not a requirement. And if its going to be yet another fantasy setting, make having a religious character mean something. So tired of games that reduce people to playing healing bots to complete gameplay. In that sense, WoW really did do a good thing with bandages and food reducing downtime, as did COH with the Inspirations. But seriously, in a fantasy theme, why do character's religion never play a role? Why do clerics (or whatever they're called in the game) not have a heirarchy they have to earn beyond level grinding?
meh...sorry, not really sticking to your question and digressing as I try to answer it. In short, I don't want to see a level/class system. MMOGS need to evolve past that or they will have to include a helluva lot of other content to where I will look at them more closely. Fed up with having to grind constantly and having no options.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Wow I am really curious now to see what T.G Ent have to offer with this game. What you mentioned ealier in your first post on page 3 of this thread really got my attention.
Btw I like your idea of the full body loot scheme. Instead of all loot always being dropped....its done by chance...it could be all your loot which is dropped, some of your loot or else none of your loot....(insure items ofcourse are excluded from this)I really like that
nice idea! And good thinking not allowing special (bound) items to be traded to other players if previously were equiped.
I also like the fact that in your game you can change from one side to the other and become a traitor :P very nice! Though I really did get confused in the last part of that paragraph where you tried to explain a little on what I am able to do during the process of my character changing sides. Leave this to when you can reveal more information....must be a real headahce trying to explain features without mentioning detail that may reveal parts of the game...but it helps make me all the bit more curious.
As regards your rewards system....again I was confused...but again because I understand you had to withold detail....I am dying to see what your team has under their sleeves cause you sound pretty confident that this rewards system is going to be a major attraction to the game you are developing. I am interested to see what you meant by the rewards I earn, I earn for my faction....you mentioned earlier in that same post that there were two types of factions.....ofcourse the main factions (like good vs evil as an example) and smaller factions....are these small factions guilds or somthing else? Incase leave this to when you are announced officially.
Hmmm this is a wild guess but I am thinking Bind stones...or something like that. We bind our spirits to some type of object like a bind stone and resurrect from there. This is to Dekoth aswell....the reason I agree with this and not a ghost system is because this is really aimed at PvP, Conflict and Conquest it seems like. Ghosts can be used unfairly to spy on a village as you said before about revenge on tracking a guy back to his house.I don't think its a right thing to do.
If it were possible somehow to have a build board...with lots of requests....lets say you request information on the guy who killed you. To do this you must have a real big grudge against him lol...anyway if it were possible to have a billboard with the desired information or demands on goods and the such. You may get ppl telling you who he is, what guild hes with....and maybe where he lives. Anyway I think its a silly idea because there are always the forums...this is just to provide something similar ingame...but its just a silly idea I think. I would recommend eve's system more of player generated jobs but I don't think it would work out within your game.
Well anyway I like the ghost system honestly....but I think it is not a fair thing to implement into a PvP aimed game. This game as you said in previous posts is aiming to be mainly about PvP. And so taking advantage of what a ghost could do is unfair...I mentioned all this in previous posts.
Anyway look foward to T.G. Entertainment getting the go ahead :P.... I really am interested to know what you have to offer in more detail
This is to Seeker728 -
I think I know what you wan't....exactly what Ultima Online offered! Its just obvious cause of what you said about having a character totally dedicated to crafting and another character with other abilities. To be honest thats what I would prefer to as well as Open FFA PvP. But when I read the first post of this I was sure they considered to just include a straight skill based system to improve your character were aware of the down sides.
A straight skill based system is my favourite system as well as thousands of other players would say...we all miss Ultima Online and what it offered in Pre Tremmel times. Well the problem with a Straight Skill based system is it requires and encourages constant grinding to improve your stats and thats what is the down side to a straight skill based system. I think DAoC tried to remove this by including the lvl system mixed with the skill system.
I don't know whats wrong exactly with that system....I understand that its still quite popular the game.....and that if you choose a warrior...it must use the skills of a Warrior.
But if it were possible to add a lot of possible skills...the maximum amount of attribute types you could add for a character....and specialisations or the such....now im just comming up with 2 second ideas so nothing I say is really solid. Read my previous posts on Page 1...in a weird way they may give you an idea of what I really mean.
Anyway I hope T.G. Enterprises get it right! Problem is what they seek requires a lot of thinking! I think they should use the 7 thinking hats technique lol. Something I learnt at the College of IT I go to...we were required to do this course on Logical thinking...easy as hell but it taught me how to solve a problem which required a long period of thinking.
Did he say fantasy? I might have missed it, this has been a long post
But that could be another reason why ghosts wouldn't work, if it isn't a fantasy type game. As for them being unfair in a pvp environment, that's why i say make it a whole new character type, not just a death avatar, and have defenses against it (you could encircle your guild hall in a barrier that stopped ghosts)
But he's said ghosts won't work, so i'm assuming there's some reason.
NEway, as to looting. While the random system has been proposed before, i'm not too big of a fan of it. I'm more for realism. Insurance is a better system, but why have the two of them together? It's a bit... i dunno, just seems awkward. ANd i REALLY dislike random
How bout loot all, except for what you have insured (a max of a small number of items, whatever number appeals to you, i'd go with 3 (considering a suit of armor as one) so that ppl can insure their most valuable posessions (main weapon, armor, money, or maybe toolset, money, magic item), but the rest is up for loot. Being looted is the worst death penalty. However, you SHOULD be able to retrieve your corpse (and so should your friends be). In addition, there should be no loot all button, ppl should have to pick stuff, that way looting in the middle of battle is a bad idea (so if your buddies win, they can retrieve for you).
Another nice system to tag on with loot would be bounty hunting. Well, kinda. A way to retrieve important items you could not insure (some items should be things you are very careful with)(rare things that are of very limited quantity in the game). You'd go to a bounty hunter and 'tell' them what you wanted (just an interface where you could select things from a list of what has been looted from you. The bounty hunter has some system whereby they can track these things down (preferably a narrowing search, so that it takes time and patience, for instance the first NPC you use a /interrogate on gets you within ten or so miles of the object or person hiding it, the next guy gets you within a mile, the next guy gets you within a hundred yards, the next guy gets you within a block). Then they go in and retrieve it (prolly killing the person who stole it). Course, this system would require that items had to be left ingame (or at least that these rare items did) and that you couldn't just port out with your whole inventory when you logged off. It'd be neat tho.
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
I think deciding on a death penalty at this games time of development should wait....even the full body loot system should wait. I like the idea because if you have a brand new weapon which is so hard to find you had to enter the deepest dungeon to get it....and then you are travelling back home with 3 other friends and suddenly an enemy raiding party arrives and you and your 3 friends have no chance of survival....well then all you can do is die and hope that your uninsured rare weapon can be saved still. Its a fair system....but ofcourse that means you need to be harsher on the death penalty system.
But the problem is you shouldn't decide on a death penalty system untill you have decided on what all the other features to implement are like what system to use for character improvement and development should be....Then when analysing all the features & systems you plan to implement into your game, you may have a better chance of identifying what could be effected by death....This in my opinion will allow a balanced out death system where it will encourage players to avoid death at nearly all costs....(this will probably prevent suicidles and recklass events from taking place). It also makes fights less boring with the worry of death in mind. But there is a limit....I wouldn't recommend that the death penalty effect Exp! In my opinion it makes a player feel like he wasted some of his time playing the game and will demoralise him.
A death penalty is there to make death unpleasant but not to make someone feel so unpleasant that they don't enjoy the game. Its meant to be there to just teach them not to let what happend happen again....ofcourse everyone faces death in MMORPGs.....many more then others because of suicides.
I have no clue what T.G Enterprises have in mind for the death penalty system....but their idea of randomised body loot is a good idea....but in my opinion still lacks in penalty....it needs to be just a tad more harsh....that way players respect life and don't waste their character's life without knowing the consequences. Anyway thats my own opinion and I am not sure if you have anything else in mind or not.
Last night at about 4am the Team had an emergency meeting because the Lead Programmer and me think we have found a good leveling system. We are still working it out today so I will post a new thread either late tonight or tomorrow giving as much detail as possible and hopefully you guys can give some feedback.
Yoruyonaka:
The game is fantasy. At the moment we are going with a random system but this may change in testing. As to bounty hunting we have an idea for a system that allows you to charge certain items with energy that will allow players to see where there items are on the map. So they can locate whoever now has their items and they can retrieve them. This will only last a short while an hour maybe. The system is still in planning stages at the moment.
I like your idea about bounty hunting as well but unfortunately it wouldnt work in our game world. Because the NPCS closest to the person who has your item will most likely try to kill you.
Seeker728:
Our new system wont have classes at all. I think our game is a lot different than all games on the market at the moment. Some of our features I havent seen in any game ever before. Even the setting of our game I dont know if its been tried before. Our races are totally new apart from the 2 standard human races. Once we can give out a lot more information I think a lot of people will see how different our game is to whats out there at the moment. I hope this will bring more people than scare away though
No one needs to craft if they dont want to. But again no one actually needs to hunt monsters if they dont want to. People could play the game just to become crafters. Or you can stay away from crafting all together.
Our first idea was a class/skill system but our new system doesnt have classes at all.
Thank you and I hope we get it right also. Hopefully if we go wrong along the way we will have people willing to help give us advice to push in the correct direction.
Mikey0114:
Thank you I hope everyone feels the same about our loot system once they get a chance to try it.
The traitor idea was the Lead Programmers and he has some amazing ideas for this system. It does get hard sometimes trying to explain things when theres a lot we cant explain.
The Factions sort of go like this. There are two Main factions we will call them good and evil. They are made up of an alliance of smaller factions. These factions are the ones who will get the reward. The two main factions are really just to decide what side you are on. The smaller factions within these factions will be up to your own taste and personality. Again this may not be very helpful as there is a lot we cant say Im afraid.
Your billboard idea is good. There was something like this in another game I played and it worked well. Mainly due to the fact that only about 20% of a games population normally use the games forum. I will give this idea to the right person and see what can be done with it. Thank you.
The death penalty system wont be decided until we have the class system totally balanced out and working well. So that death doesnt unbalance the game.
Thank you for your confidence in us as well. We hope we can bring you a game you will enjoy.
If anyone has any more feedback on the PVP/Loot/Death Penalty systems please give as much feedback as you can. We will make a post tonight or tomorrow about the new class system.
Gary
Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
Thank you to everyone that P.Med me. Your information will be passed on to the relevent person today so expect an email within the next 1-2 weeks about alpha testing. You will also be the first people to be sent the information on the game once it is cleared by the Legal Department.
Gary
Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
Awesome, thank you Gary. Lookin forward to the email and the alpha
Any other issues you guys want to ask us about?
Great to hear that you have a good idea for a character improvement system to use use for your fantasy game!
You said that you have decided to get rid of classes....which if I remember...you may have gotten the idea from feedback that someone said in a previous post in this topic about how its best just to allow the player to customise his own character using skills....so we have the freedom to either choose between a character which has a mix of fighting skills, crafting skills and maybe some other possible skills which don't fit into those two catagories....like Taming, pickpocketing and the such. Then its possible to have a character which is totally focused on fighting and its also possible to have a character which does all your crafting work. It gives the player also a lot of freedom of what he wants. I love this system to be honest.
Currently my favourite existing system is still just a skill based system like UOs where you have total freedom to do make what character you like and it depends on Skills not lvling and time you have played for victory in battle. Sadly for new players to RPG and MMORPGs this style can be a bit tough....so some MMORPGs which adopted this system also placed pre defined characters with all the starting skill points already in place (For example - I choose to be a pre defined Paladin...all starting skill points are used on various skills to do with attributes (mainly strenght), melee combat and divine skills. Down side to this system is that it creates a large degree of grinding within the game world. This can be quite a bore over time and players get sick of it. This is the reason MMORPGs have avoided the skill based system and have gone for a more lvling based system with a tech tree but it didn't change a lot.
Back on to topic! lol....What I have gathered from what little you mentioned you called it a lvling system so I am going to guess its still a lvling/skill system. I am really curious to know what you guys have planned cause it seems like you have a good idea of what could possibly be suitable for a PvP game...atleast thats what I hope. Anyway when you do mention it here....please try to be as brief as possible and try to mention detail to limits of what you are allowed to mention. If you do that then I (and probably others) will be able to hopefully paint an accurate picture of what you mention about the new system your team has in mind. Then I will try to give you honest and balanced feed back on what I think is the good, the bad, the possibilities, consequences and the alternatives...and probably my own personal view of what I think of it.
By the way your idea of allowing players to track items which were robbed by you sounds really great though I do recommend you increase the time to a little more then an hour.... I like the idea....gr8 alternative to a ghost!
As to the death penalty I agree that you should leave it for after you decide on what lvling/skill system to use. That will allow you to see if its possible for anything in the lvling/skill system to actually be affected by the death system...without being too harsh of course.
Anyway I look forward to tonight or tommorrow for a additional information on your new team's idea. Hope its a good one!
The new system has been posted here if you would like to check it out.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/49049/setstart/1/loadclass/35
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.
Just to reply about the company. They are an American based company by the looks of their website. So if there company is licensed then it will be in America. We are an English Licensed company. I'm not sure how that effects publishing on the internet ill get the Legal Department to check over that site on Monday and if they are English based they cant be licensed because we are. So they will be closed down.
Gary
Director of T.G Enterprises
T.G Enterprises. Bringing you the next Great MMORPG.