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The communicative power of the term "PAY TO WIN"
Interesting
Member UncommonPosts: 973
Pay to Win
is just a SIMPLE, OBJECTIVE, STRONG AND PEJORATIVE TERM.
Its the new Fail, its like it.
FAIL (Ive written a similar article analysing the term Fail on this forum, when a similar topic came, Im sure its under one of my posts history). Fail has lost part of its power due to it requiring a pre-existing context or else its strenght is severely weakened. Its too generic. Pay to Win, on the other hand, finds complement within each individual past experiences of RMT and their own evaluation of what is ok and not ok. Except that one does not tries to find the discrepancies of their own concept and the posters own concept each time they read it. They are tricked into just assuming their own concept. So the term itself is auto-applicable within any RMT discussion or context.
Anyway, "Pay to Win":
It communicate a wide range of negative ideas in a stample way. One does not waste time with the subject, it just labels something and move on, because its not worth it. One does not waste words explaining, neither gives the chance to counter against. Its stronger than a prejudice. One comes, posts it and move on, without caring about if the next person who reads it cares or not. It is very easy to use.
Within the wide range of possible meanings and interpretations of what constitutes pay to win, from the most sensitive to the most insensitive person, everyone can find a subset of RMT rulesets that they are not ok with and then label it pay to win. Its like a snowball that grows into an avalanche, there is no stopping, there is no counter. In the end, everyone derives the meaning of pay to win based on their own standards and the beauty of it is that you cannot deconstruct it to empty its cognitive destructive power.
To the reader, a repply with "pay to win" only has the most bang to the writers time and effort. It instantly communicates the worse possible message. "THIS IS BAD". Its like insects using chemicals to communicate one of the dozen simple messages, like the one that means "enemy nearby, seek and destroy". That the power of the expression "Pay to Win".
It is a masterpiece of modern linguistics, I embraced it since the first time I saw it and since then started to use it a thousand times, over and over, propagating it to others, and now it is with great pleasure to see its power being used ONLY AGAINST THE RMT.
Its a cultural work of the mmorpg gamers community. A sign of our evolution, something that even the newborn baby gamers and the most primitive persons and low IQ players can understand right away. "SKIP THIS PIECE OF SHIT", "NOT WORTH YOUR TIME", "THIS IS BAD", "THIS IS CORRUPTED".
The expression is a weapon, its only used in a belicist way, to damage whatever the subject/game/company/rmt model is being pushed. Its our way to combat what we subjectivelly believe to be unethical or bad practices or anything that breaks the integrity of a game.
The beauty of it is that it causes the intended effect. We dont need a due process of law of judge and execute something by just labeling it "PAY TO WIN". We shift all the time and effort to the developers in interviews to convince us that their new game is not "Pay to Win". The hot potato is on the developers hands.
Not only that, but we have seen in the last 2 to 3 years an active effort of developers to design a game alongside with the monetization model in a way that steems away from the bad labeling.
"Vote with your wallets" some said, but one can simply repply "this is pay to win" and there is their vote, not one of absence or silence. "Dont like it dont play it", "Dont like it, quit", "... but shut the fuck up about it". We often hear as a common defense strategy against any and all criticism. You see, "pay to win" bypasses that. It is the current epitome of criticism of a game with RMT, not only you dont play it, but YOU CAUSE EFFECT INTO OTHERS IN A NEGATIVE WAY, INFLUENCING MANY INTO SKIPPING SAID GAME. To those that recomended "votes" and "behaviours" in a way to defend/clear out the criticism, the rise of the term "Pay to Win" is the sweetest irony. "How do you like my vote now?"
In case someone didnt read the above... It explains why Its a futile attempt to determine the limits of the term, just so it can be denied or invalidated in any discussion. If it worked for MMORPGs in a way that the genre standard could be lowered, it cannot be used on Pay to Win in a way to create requisites for its use to be validated/verifiable. Work both ways.
While you are at it, read my other article named
![http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/13.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]](http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/13.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]){kind=link}
Comments
In other related news: Cash shop mmorpgs continue to increase in popularity with more and more monthly fee mmorpgs switching over to the free to play model, proving that the op's laughable attempt at mispresenting free to play mmorpgs to be a failed attempt.
1) Not all cash shop games are P2WIn. OP only mentioned P2Win games.
2) Many of the games going F2P are games that have gotten old and outdated which no longer hold the number of subs they used to. In many cases, these F2P games still offer a subscription option that gives access to pretty much everything a free player can purchase anyway.
I have to agree, OP wasn't making general references to all cash shop games, and in fact, really was just emphasizing the power of the term P2W and its ability to completely demonize a MMORPG in just one short phrase.
It's true too, nothing kicks off a good debate than to label an upcoming games cash shop as P2W, as evidenced by the recent furuor over in the GW2 space.
How many people post "I will never play a MMORPG that has a P2W model" and yet really can't point to a single title that really is P2W. (and there are some out there to be sure)
Thing is, we all have varying definitions of what "winning" is in a MMORPG. To some folks, its whether or not they win in PVP, which is a pretty clear cut and easy area to define P2W.
However to other folks, if a cash shop offers something that they cannot obtain through reasonable actions within the game world they feel disadvantaged and therefore have "lost' something, and it upsets them. (even if the item is purely cosmetic)
So while most folks don't view all cash shop purchases as P2W, most MMORPG players feel that true P2W is a bad thing, but the rub is, the term is so variably used.
So yes, the term Pay to Win does carry a ton of weight because almost everyone has a definition in their minds of what it is and if a game could be considered to embrace it is worthy of passing on. (except of course the folks that like P2W games)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1: If you look at some of the other threads made by the OP, it shows that he labels every micro transaction game as pay to win.
2. Many of the mmorpgs that switched to free to play are only a few years old.
In fact, some switch over to F2P so quickly that it appears Developers are now planning on an eventual (inevitable?) switch to the F2P model once subs die. Take Tera for example, I won't be surprised if they offer a F2P option less than a year after the Western launch. (I actually am thinking of buying this one and subbing for a spell btw)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Developers calling their game free isn't mislabeling?
I doubt that developers changing their business model for a game is due to popularity. If you take just 2 seconds and think about the P2W business model it makes sense to use it for a low population game.
Why limit the buying power of a small population on a server?
They are probably the most dedicated of your fanbase and would gladly pay more than $15 a month to support your game.
+++++++++++++++++
TBH, I don't think the term P2W is destructive at all. Anytime that I have had a discussion in game with players there isn't any disagreement about if the game we are playing is P2W or not. The only place you actually see disagreement is on forums. I guess people either need to " see to believe ", or it is the publisher's spin doctors working hard.
in simple layman terms p2win just boils down to the concept of TIME vs MONEY in today's competitive environment of online games i.e. WvW, GvG, PvP, pk etc.., nothing beats the challenge of competiting with another human being, AI can be broken and exploited:p, this applies to PvE too being able to farm the hardest dungeon for that uber phat lootz.
therefore players are constantly look for that extra edge against other players or the system, so yes players will stay clear of any online games that has a strong emphasis on items that enchance your toon to a god like stage, this is due to them not want to be competiing with the other player on who spend the most $$ to win, just doesnt make sense that something virtual with it's lifespan limited to the survival of the company.
and yes all hail the all mightly p2win tag!!!! take labels greed and money hunger companies that is only look for a quick profit at our expense.
just my 2 cents
How is it mislabeling? Developers label their game as free to play. Can you play those games for free? Yes you can. So what part about it is misleading?
It's not just small population mmorpgs that are switching to f2p. Games with big sized subscriber base also switched over. The switch is so successful that some publishers decided to make all of their games free to play after giving it a try.
The free to play model is very successful and its a good thing for the industry. The 50$ box model + 15$ standard monthly fee model + 30$ expansion packs has proven to not work well for most games in our industry. It encouraged players to stcik with one mmorpg only. In the p2p marker, there is no room for good games. Only the very best mmorpgs were able to work well with a monthly fee.
With free to play, more people are playing mmorpgs and more mmorpgs are successful, which means more mmos to play.
f2p games are more popular because it keeps busted titles alive and titles that would never be able to sell a copy playing because it lures people in with the term "free", it isn't really free, but hey if they get you to drop 20 bucks in their shop before you quit that's 20 bucks they didn't have.
I will never play a game with a cash shop that has anything in it but cosmetic items and the majority of western players feel this way I am guessing. Just because a bunch of old games that were dying and new games that were developed on a commodore 64 are popping up doesn't mean that most of us want to play them.
The root fo most of the peoples' angst re this topic is simple; guild wars 2 fanboi-ism. I find it infinitely amusing that anet has you convinced that paying 60 bucks for a f2p game with a p2w item shop in it is ok. They've jedi mind tricked you all.
I'm surprised there are still people saying "Well most western gamers feel this way", have you been paying any attention to recent market development whatsoever? Microtransactions are increasing everywhere and it's not just mmorpgs anymore. FPS and MOBA games have also embraced the model.
There are currently about 3 pay to play mmorpgs that are successful. Everything else is free to play. Some of the most popular mmorpgs in the West are free to play.
and again, the vast majority of those games are actually free.
What people don't realize about P2W is this. It can be extremely subtle and very easy to burry in any game. Sometimes shops are not so subtle, sometimes they are.
The following are only a few examples of how P2W can work, but is not necessarily limited to these examples.
Lets look at a game like Rappelz where P2W is buried in RNG. In Rappelz. The items in the cash shop aren't necessarily instant power. Some are items that for the most part appear to be convienience. But lets look a bit deeper.
The way it works is like this. You go out and grind mobs until one drops a pet card. You can then use that pet card to capture and tame a pet according to the card. You can then level the pet apply gear to it etc etc.
But increasing the power of the pet comes from taking two tamed pet cards and combining them together. So 2 pet cards combine to form a more powerful pet, then you do it again, 2 basic pets are combined, so now you have 2 pets that are at stage 2 (Sorry if I recalled that wrong, it's been a while) Now you combine those 2 cards into a stage 3 pet. So now what was 4 basic pets is now a single improved pet. And then you do it again. You combine 4 basic pets to create another stage 3 until you have 2 stage 3 pets made from 8 basic pets. You can combine them to form a single stage 4. The kicker of this is that at any time, if the combination fails, you lose a card. So, if you are attempting to combine into a stage 5 and it fails...you could lose like 16 pets. and of course the higher the stage,the greater the chance of failure.
All items required to perform combinations and conversions are available to everyone who plays. The power to be had is technically in the game not the cash shop.
However, the CS will have items that will increase the chances of a successful combination. It really doesn't amount to much for a player to buy one or two sporadically or periodically. having success for a single successful combination isn't really that big a deal. So for people who use the cash shop very rarely, there really is no power gain.
The p2w comes in for those who consistently use the cash shop items and apply these mod bonuses all the time.
Through the use of increasing successful chances of combinations over time you have more frequent little successes more and mroe that a non cash shop user won't have. and that will in the end create a significan power difference after a period of time. Of course this can also be accomplished with a single massive outlay of cash too.
Basically, in the end someone who used the cash shop a lot will have better pets and better gear over the one who did not. Even though all the mechanics and items were always available to both players.
In the Case of Anarchy Online. It's much less subtle. In that game. Credits=Power. There is not one item in the game that you can't buy or contact someone who is offering to farm it for you for a fee.
And since FunCom has come out and stated that they want to offer a safe alternative to RMT credit sellers, they have no choice but to sell power.
In Perfect World, there are similar mechanics to Rappelz in some ways. I only bought crafting mats, but even in that, it was easy to create some gear I'd have otherwise had difficulty making or getting elsewhere.
2 conclusions so far:
1. This is becoming public, known knowledge. To the point developers are addapting to it.
2. On the other hand, a lot of people are starting to accept this reality, regardless of the abuses.
TL;DR of the OP: Be an ignorant fuck, it saves you a lot of time
Heh , let's start by setting a few facts straights.
When a P2P MMO goes F2P , it means the game is struggling and is in desperate need of positive cash flow , EVE Online has been P2P 2000 and will remain P2P until our deaths. Because CCP are one of the rare companies that knows how to take of their niche of players and appreciate our support ("Our" because I'm on of CCP's supporters).
Problem with P2P , for all type of MMO for that matter , is that they try to put everything for everyone in a short lapse of time , and we end up with epic failures like Age of Conan which by the way was suppose to be the WoW killer , but the horrible launch destroyed the game.
I'll never play a F2P MMO with enhancements I need to buy to achieve a certain point.
P2P MMO's with enhancements cash shops is plain stupid.
F2P MMO with minor enhancements ie : 5% XP bonus for X ammount of hours , I can live with that.
So to conclude , NEVER EVER think that a P2P MMO is heading F2P because it's a good thing , it's always a sign of struggle. P2P means you pay 10$ a month in example , the Devs consider 20,000$ a month is enough to pay for employees and maintaining servers , which is 2000 subs , now if they go F2P , it means they are struggling on having 2000 subs for their game and are attemping a way to generate the 20K a month with cash shops. But also don't forget by going F2P , they are in no way in any hurry on fixing bugs and updating the game. Your playing for free , so if your not happy then gtfo.
Sorry for all the mistakes in that last post , it just that reading all these threads by mindless OP's is just upsetting at times that I skip words. Again my apologies.
The whole "Free To Play" term is a misnomer. It's not free. Somebody is paying for it. It's the same thing that happens with people who get money from the government and say it's free. It's not free, the tax payers paid for it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I agree, but for a few years now we have hybrid models.
They keep the P2P and make the game F2P. How you ask? They make "premium", "vip", "packages", different classes, one where people pay monthly and receive some advantages, options, content, or whatever is deemed acceptable.
Thats the model SWTOR is going to release soon.
Please don't necro old threads. Feel free to link to the old thread in a new one. Locking this.
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