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Combat Upgrade, NERF, why?
spydermr2
Member Posts: 336
OK. Playing on test server. So far, looks like Sony wants to clearly delineate what job each class will do, period, no variation. Fighters will tank, period, end of story, no variation allowed; scouts DPS, period, no variation; mages... you get the picture. They have a diverse array of subclasses, but so far I'm not liking what I'm finding. Yes, this is just the TEST for the "combat upgrade"... but that they're even considering some of the utter tripe I've seen on there is apalling. Spells getting slashed to 1/4 of their previous damage output, timers being yanked all over the place (up and down, without any apparent thought given to how that'll play out in sync with any other skills).
I stand here a returned EQ2 player, having started last year and played after commercial release for two months. The game was broken in a lot of ways through January, and needed help. IT got that help in the Spring with the ENORMOUS amount of content that was added and the retiering that made the game more solo-able, but also more FUN to me in groups and solo. So, OK, I'm back, and I'm having fun... they suceeded with their efforts during the Spring/early Summer.
So now along comes the much-ballyhooed Combat "upgrade". Yes, I understand and agree with the revision to the con system, and how your level will relate to the con of the creature(s). Fine. What that doesn't necessarily entail is the total HORKING that is going on. Beserkers, get ready to be less beserk and more... I don't even know what. Hit the EQ2 forums and read the excellent and methodical breakdown of every current Test server skill for them. Massive Nerf, guts the class. Paladins, some improvement, lots of slashes in their power (NERF>improvements). Swashbucklers? Scouts? NO MORE BOWS. Swashies get some sort of throwing ax, which is a severe CRIMP in a SCOUT'S ranged ability, requiring more slots for more equipment, increasing cost of equipment maintenance/upgrade, and for what? I mean, there isn't even a good justification for a lot of this drivel being served up as an "upgrade".
I'm running a Swashbuckler, a Paladin, and a Warden. I can't abide what they're doing to any of those three. On Live servers, i fear what the changes will be to the other classes I've got up and running, given how totally unacceptable the changes to those three are. Just started my Beserker, but Cripes, the breakdown of the new spells versus the old (again, see the EQ2 site forums) are one HUGE Nerf.
So what? They're trying to chase me away again? Can these folks ever get their messages straight? Or focus on making and keeping the game fun and diverse, instead of these NERFS that look like they're reducing the diversity of the subclasses and reducing the roles/faciility of classes to be more than one-dimensional in groups. You WILL do this, period, end of story, no creativity allowed.
SOE, Please, please don't ruin this game.
Comments
All I know is my Assassin needs to put out more dps, period. My class becomes more than useless when tanks can do near the same amount of damage as I can plus they get heavy armor.
Well I've been playing EQ2 since beta, have a lvl 50 Warden in Antonia Bayle and a lvl 28 Warden on test, and I can tell you that the difference in the class is night and day, not that that's a bad thing, it's just the fact of the situation right now.
Of course always keeping in mind that this is in fact a TEST server, I can't help but be saddened by the over all direction they decided to take with the combat "upgrade". The very basic principal of the Nerf This/Buff That whilst forcing everyone to their end roles is beyond me, why not use some imagination ? Why not actually try to fix the problems in the game instead of covering them up to make it seem as if everything is ok ? I personally have no problem having my class turn into a support healer, nor do I mind my dps being cut by 3/4's, Warden's have always been over powered anyways but what they seem to be lacking is the fundamental issues at hand that they will not cure by simply buffing and nerfing everything to heck.
There is no doubt that something needed to be done to level out combat, no one can deny that but many in the community hoped that when we first heard about the combat revamp we were going to see actual changes not alterations.
Poor enchanting classes are worse off on test then they are on live (which is sad indeed), DPS casters are loosing all sorts of parry and evade stats that make them basically 1 hit kills for almost any npc or pc, scouts armoring is taking a huge hit, tanks are getting HUGE cuts on dps and hooray Clerics will now be the single best healer type with fury's/wardens mystics and defilers being slotted as support, again !. Certainly much of this could change possibly perhaps it's even likely but it still does not change the fact that they are going about this one way and one only, buff and nerf.
I know for myself I will not be renewing my subscription as of august 23rd, I think I've tested enough content for them over the last 8 to 9 months only to be put through the ringer again. Hopefully I hear good things and I'll try my hand at it again perhaps when DoF is released. It is unfortunate but there's only so much patience I have but of course thats just personal oppinion, certainly I hope that many players get the play experience they want and deserve.
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My position, basically, is this: adjust things here and there, make changes that are sweeping changes IF and ONLY IF they serve the purpose of making the gameworld more fun and more interactive, more immersive. Do not make ANY changes if they REDUCE the flexibility of the game-system (say, by specifically tailoring each and every class to a specific, predefined, and thereby very limited role).
They knew this -- they did a lot of it during the Spring and early Summer. And then, the well dried up, content has been dribbling out for the past month and a half, and we get talk of this absurdity that is the "combat upgrade", which can be summed up, from what I'm seeing, as "we take all the subclasses, lessen their diversity, so that the namesake class of each class category becomes the 'purpose' of the class -- fighters must tank, no creativity allowed, no differentiation allowed", "clerics are the best healers period, all other clerical will be "spport" with no flavor or diffentiation", etc. If they're trying to make this game utterly "vanilla" in flavor, they sound like they're going in the right direction.
Don't understand this at all. Hope that the ENTIRE thing I'm seeing on the Test servers DOESN'T go live (yeah, right).
If it looks like it does now, when it goes LIVE, I'll be short for the world of EQ2, which is a shame. As I said in my OP, I came back becaus of the more-positive direction EQ2 was headed. I'd hate to have to leave because they went stupid on us. Besides, there aren't a lot of games out there to go to. Been down the "WoW is so cool -- for about a month, then it's an utter bore" road, down DAoC, AC1, AC2 (never again), etc. Not ready to go back -- probably wind up playing EQ1 or AC1 again while I wait for an intelligent, diverse, IMMERSIVE game world to show up. (one that comes with an ingame L33t-speak filter would be HUGE pluses)
I have been playing EQ1 and EQ2 for close to 4 years, and here is my humble take on what i feel is happening to me personaly.
I started EQ1 with a druid, I loved that class. sure it was hard to find groups and people thought I was nothing more then a port whore but i still had a blast with her, and at higher levels people would snap me up as well as cleric for groups. It was great to feel loved. I had a blast being able to heal, nuke, and travel where i wanted to go in the blink of any eye. It was also great to be able to help others get to where they were going, and to feel that my druid class was very different from other classes. I left EQ1 for the reason that we (hubby and I) hit level 65 had tons of AA"s but missed out on alot of raiding keys and were missing alot of the raids. (we took our time leveling and enjoying the game).
So I got a invite to EQ2 Beta and I jumped at it. I went right to Druid selection and was sadly disappointed. Im not saying that wardens and furys are terrible, but they honestly scream no diversity. Its like playing a templer or mystic. Oh sure a few spells are different but it has the same feel. So I went with a Beserker instead when the game went live. Oh sure it was alot like the other tanks on the game but I had not played a tank before so I had a better time leveling her. I got her to level 50, did a ton of access quests and other quests with her. Oh she isnt the best tank on the block but she can hold her own with groups and I feel useful during raids. Only thing I didnt like is that i felt like every other tank. You could honestly change my name from Berserker to Guardian give me 20 min to learn a few different buffs and attacks and it would be the same character.
Now I hear about combat changes. I find out that my Berserker is going to pretty much be bloody useless in raids. A raid is going to be called and when it comes down to me or the ranger being in the group, im going to be sitting on the sidelines every time. Who needs another tank for raidsi f you have 2 already you probably dont need any more. They will be removing almost all of my berserkering skills and replacing them with contsentrations and stances (hmm WOW...Stances...hmmm). Berserkers by defination are suposed to warrior types that go into battle withouth thought, kill everything in their path, without care for their own personal safety. I find it rediculous that I would have to contsentrate on anything. If they wanted to make a Berserker more chalanging, change our armor to Chain and give us Round Shields, trust me that would be stimulating enough, and keep our DPS the same. Now I look just like the guardian again, no class defination no feeling that my Berserker can do something other classes cant do. Plus no need for me in a group, because 1. the Guardian can take the hits better, 2. the paladins and SK's can heal and ward themselves out of it.
Now i felt maybe i should level up a ranger and play that so that I can feel at least useful in groups and raids. So I rolled up a ranger. After reaching level 20 I realized something. "WHY???" Why do I want to put myself throught the same abuse. They have already screwed up the class that I loved dearly, how am I not sure that 6 months down the line they take it into their silly heads that maybe Rangers should now not use bows. Or that the DPS is to great, and nerf them down so bad that people would pick bards or swishy pokies over a ranger. Then again I would be out of a class that I spent several months leveling up.
Now I play this game with my husband. The greatest joy we have is playing games together. Its a cheap way to be entertained and we have a blast seeing what our characters can do in the game together. We have been able to do some crazy combinations and gotten out of scrapes I havent seen full groups live through. Now we both find our classes being changed to things we really dont want to play (he is a mystic).
Im not saying change is bad, but when you change the basic structure of a class and pigeon hole it same slot as every other subclass of your Tier. what play. The armor was bad enough, looking like every other walking tin can, but now I will acting like them as well. Well it just plain sucks. EQ2 has destroyed what they set out to create. I am sadened and completely disappointed.
Stops her rant (pant pant pant)
My subscription ended today. I will not be renewing. The only thing I will miss is the great people I met along the way. I am also in limbo till either DDO Or Vanguard makes their appearance.
RCDTEAR
Over the wind,
Across the Sea.
A sirens life,
I call to thee.
So many bleeding hearts over a few changes.
OH MY GOD the SKY IS falling!
I've been playing for a while now and I hear my Troubador is going to get a bit of a tweaking, and my Conjuror is going to use up 3-4 concentration on just the pet.
I honestly don't see why the huge cry of 'Change it and I leave' that seems to be comming.
First, its the test server changes...They haven't Gone live. They made changes, in testing, to better Balance the game and possibly make it more of a challenge.
But they are still deciding what they will change and what they won't, so calm down.
I play a Zerker to be on the Test server, recently made, but climbing fast.
And I play on Unrest.
The game is incredibly easy. Solo or grouped.
I welcome any changes that make this game a challenge.
What amazes me about comments like this is that not a single person, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON, in this thread in ANY way has said "Change it and I leave" and NOT only that but I myself even went as far as to say that the game does in fact NEED change and twice said that yes it's in fact only on the TEST server. Yet you couldn't help but post your little "oh my god the sky is falling" reply, right ?
Furthermore I think everyone that has posted in this thread so far has been extremely calm, what exactly are you reading ? Are you reading it at all ? It's great if your happy with the upcomming changes, thats fantastic, post about that, post why and what you think it will add to the game and yoru class. You don't seem like an idiot so I'm sure you could come up with something postitive and well written to add to the conversation instead of just trying to be-little people that may not think on the same lines as you.
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They are bringing damage down across the board and making adjustments at the same time to balance dps and other utility functions between classes: ie: wizard more powerful than mages, etc.
You claim to know so much, and yet no one has mentioned WHY this is happening. It's being done in front of the new expansion to balance out everything for the next 10 levels, and all the new content. Right now, many high end players are critical of the "end game" because encounters are trivial. In order to create mroe space for high end players in different zones, they are going to adjust everyone so that next year they don't have to create level 200 mobs to fight level 75 PCs. It makes perfect sense, and in the long run, it will be worth it. Even in spite of all the whining that will take place.
It seems like a big change because it is. You can call it a nerf if you want. The fact is, it will be good for the game. If you're too new to realize that, then quit again till the dust settles and start up again 6 months from now. You won't notice a thing.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
Sony is doing yet another CU? *chuckles*
(sorry, I have no reason top be here, just saw this on the main page and had to laugh)
It's not about the "why", it's about the "what", as in the specifics of what they're doing. As for me being "too new", I've been playing online RPGs since the day they were TEXT, and played EQ to the present day. I'm far from "new" at any of these games. Played EQ2 in beta, played for a few months after release. Left. Came back because they were CHANGING things in a positive direction. Note that part. CHANGE is what brought me BACK. Because the changes that were made were of a positive, immersive direction.
What's being complained about is that the changes are all, to many of us who are playing on the test server and are EXPERIENCING the crap they're foisting off as an "upgrade", specifically NOT constructive nor do they increase the overall "fun" of the game. In many cases, they achieve exactly the OPPOSITE -- by drawing things out. I have no doubt that they're going to make it harder to progress, aka SLOWER -- but just reorienting things to slow people's progressions because they can't come up with a more inventive end-game (everyone getting to lvl 50 too fast? Need to slow that down, so we can put in a lvl 50-60 and not have it be "eaten up" too fast). here's a thought: let's figure out how to build an endgame that doesn't just require depowering everything and protracting all the experiences before that. Cause that's basically all they're doing. The solution is: slow the game down for everyone so they don't get to 50 as fast. When specific spells are being depowered by as much as 75% (from doing almost 500 points of damage to doing 75 points), it's a NERF. And it's not particularly inspired on their part. This isn't the DIFFICULT course to choose. The difficult course for them to choose would be to actually think and create a new aspect for the endgame.
Basically, it's not change we're arguing against -- change is what brought me back to the game several months ago. It's WHAT they're doing SPECIFICALLY, and how that's going to just turn the game into an endless, slow grind. Among other things, WoW is pulverizing SOE in subscriptions because WowW, while having even less of an endgame than EQ2 and ultimately being more boring, is more FUN on the way to becoming boring.
If Sony thinks the changes on the Test server are going to do anything to improve their subscription rate, they're deluding themselves. I'm a fan of the game, a fan of the direction they were heading for the past few months -- but what they're doing on the test server, in the name of this Combat Upgrade, is not a POSITIVE change for the overall game. Again, since people can't seem to read for themselves, let me repeat: I'm not saying don't do a combat upgrade, I'm arguing that the specifics of THIS combat upgrade, as on the TEST server, is not a POSITIVE change.
By the way, you might try arguing a point instead of resorting to childish "if you're too new to realise" garbage. Turning to that sort of personalization is just that: childish. And it doesn't help your argument at all, especially since you have NO IDEA how "new" I am or any of us are. Here's a clue: we MIGHT have a different perspective on the specifics of the changes and DISAGREE with you that those changes are positive or constructive. That disagreement in no way makes us "new" or any other stupid comments about someone's playing style you choose to make.
Hm.. I had to *chuckle* myself. Sony and the CU, it's like water and oil trying to mix. I'm just glad i have vowed to never spend another dime on SOE products ever again. That was when they did the CU on SWG.
What's the saddest thing is just a couple of weeks ago i had a retro weekend and went and got myself the dosbox emu and ran my old Elderscrolls: Arena game. And for some odd reason over the last few years, when i tried out the original EQ the tune they play when you level struck a cord in my mind telling me i've heard that somewhere before. The same tune that makes people say "ding" is the exact same tune that was played in Arena when you leveled way back in '93 when it came out. And not to mention so many other similarities to the design of EQ to that of Elderscrolls: Arena and that of a game called Wizardry.
Yet of course EQ lacks the diversity and imagination of the newer Elderscrolls game by far. Which makes me think, EQ is purely a copy of games like Arena and Wizardry. And as they see WoW doing so well they thought to make things more like WoW in EQ2. yet its apparent that didn't go over to well. and now they have this CU... to make it less diverse and more anal retentive. I don't think the folks at SOE have ever had an imaginative bone in their whole existence.
If you want diversity then seek out games like Elderscrolls series or the Wizardry series. even better yet, Hero's Journey and D&D online have tried and true gaming systems that are very diverse in character development. my new rule of thumb for online games, if it don't at least allow for multiclassing when using a class based system, then it probably won't be worth it. Unless of course its skill based, then of course you can't get more diverse than that.
Played Arena the day it came out, Wizardry I way back when (I think I just told roughly how old I am with that one), and one of the best first-person standalone RPGs, Ultima Underworld I (very fond memories of that one). Lost myself in Daggerfall, Morrowind, Ultima IV, VI, VII, etc. Might and Magic VI, etc. There's a definite sense that the creators of standalone RPGs are more willing to experiment with play-styles and game mechanics than the makers of MMORPGs (some series did, anyway; Might and Magic was the same idea retreaded over and over again, yet strangely compelling). I would point out AC1 as something that actually did tinker at least a bit with combat (power of swing and height of swing being in the player's control made combat much more dynamic than the usual auto-attack with maybe a button mashed here for a 'special').
I find it most telling that so far, I can't think of anyone who built a successful standalone RPG who has in turn created a successful MMORPG. Blizzard took an RTS game and used its environment to create an MMORPG that didn't really innovate at all -- it just took the conventions and dumbed most of them down to be easy and accessible. Everquest came from nothing. Asheron's Call, Dark Ages of Camelot. Zip. Wait, I was wrong: tHere's exactly ONE game that I can think of off the top of my head that derived from a specific successful standalone RPG, and that's Ultimate Online. And UO rocked. It had all the customization, classes, skills, etc. and all the ingenuity that one could ask for. Now, if they'd just bother to get around to doing a sequel or truly modernizing the game, it would help.
For all of that, the direction SOE seemed to be going with EQ2 over the Spring and early Summer seemed to be more immersive, more accessible content. Not necessarily easier, but more OPEN. That's what I loved about EQ1: a wide-open world to explore, and it was up to the players to LEARN for themselves what areas were dangerous and to figure out when they could come back to those areas. A community that seemed genuinely interested in roleplaying and not just gabbing about how great they are. EQ2 got some of that community-spirit. But EQ2's world is FAR from an open one. Everything is shoe-horned, tailored and hand-fed to you so you don't have to think for yourself or learn from the situation. The whole "con" and artificial-grouping of creatures is solely designed to make it loud and clear what the devs want you to think about an encounter. It's just like the big stupid ? over people's heads in WOW -- designed to eliminate the player having to assess a situation for themselves and learn from their encounters (like, again, in EQ1, where you had to judge for yourself if attacking gnoll #1 would provoke a landslide in your direction of if you could manage to do it and just get that gnoll or a manageable number of gnolls).
Which brings me back to: great post. I'd like to see Sony apply an ounce of the creativity that's going into standalone RPGs and rethink the very limited way they and others see "endgame". How about creating structures where high-end characters can become Lords of a particular area, with all that is required with such a title? Own your own castle, but have to convince others to work with you (as your knights and vassals) to protect it. Lead raids against other Lords. Let that play out across the desert. Tie the "faction standing" of particular Lords to things that they can do, quests they can "construct" for their sworn knights and vassals, that link to other factions in the game. Is this a specific suggestion for EQ2? Maybe not. But it's a crapload more inventive than just "retier all powers and skills and creatures so the game progresses slower to the end-levels, and that's our endgame! It takes longer to get there!"
Or, perhaps, set up a genuine faction standing within the cities, whereby high-end characters can begin to earn positions within the social structure of Queynos and Freeport. From those positions, they might have to undertake specific types of quests for the cities, or they might be given access to a group of quests that they need to find other players to carry out (specific, targetted raids; supplies; etc). Open arenas in both cities and let characters have a place where duels of honor can take place, betting can take place on the outcome, stature can be earned through victories. Things like that would also rebuild the populations of the city zones and flesh out the cities and make them VIABLE, VIBRANT places.
Or... the point is, there's tons of ideas, but we always seem to be getting the same retreaded ideas from the MMORPG makers. WoW"s battleground is just a very, very poor imitation of DAoC's realm-versus-realm combat, for instance. The upcoming PvP arena in EQ2 -- been there, done that. Let's see some GAMEWORLD end-game, things that involve plot, character involvement, direction, a little creativity.
maybe its just me but as a paladin i like the changes. they nerfed the shit out of my DPS (like i care, im a fucking paladin not a wizard), but they made our ability to tank a LOT better. anyone who played the higher level of the game knows that paladins couldnt keep agro for shit, which has been greatly changed in the combat revamp. also, they gave us a group heal and a rez thats better and worse at the same time (now rezzes with 100% hp and 15%mp instead of old 44% hp 44% mp). as well as some other tweaks here and there both major and minor.
i actually think the combat revamp is doing a good job of DIVERSIFYING the classes. its true that all subclasses in an archetype are supposed to have the same general role, but its how they carry out those roles that they are changing a bit with the combat revamp and being made more unique.
call me a fanboy if you'd like, but i've liked 95% of things SOE has done with the game, this included.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
Actually that would be simplifying... You have all these classes, but basically if their base is a fighter they are considered a tank and will tank... So now the Monk no longer does dps but yet has to set and tank? Just curious...<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
If you want diversity, example: in D&D PnP (and with the online version as well Im sure) a 20th level paladin is pretty good as is, has good tanking ability with decent damage ability, but has some spells to do some helpful party stuff. But a 10th level paladin/10th level fighter is much more specialized in his weapon (s) of choice. He isn't restricted to only 1 or 2 types of weapons. And all bonuses from all classes are added together thus making the character a bit more effective one or the other depending on how you decide to multiclass if you do. In this instance if you truly wanted to, you could make a duel wielding paladin if you so wanted to. Can you do that in EQ2?
Diversity is being able to have a form of allowing the players to make adjustments as they see fit and allow them freedom to make themselves tank more or do more damage or even be more utility. Some have different opinions all together on how and what exactly to do, but as long as the options are there.
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Actually that would be simplifying... You have all these classes, but basically if their base is a fighter they are considered a tank and will tank... So now the Monk no longer does dps but yet has to set and tank? Just curious...
If you want diversity, example: in D&D PnP (and with the online version as well Im sure) a 20th level paladin is pretty good as is, has good tanking ability with decent damage ability, but has some spells to do some helpful party stuff. But a 10th level paladin/10th level fighter is much more specialized in his weapon (s) of choice. He isn't restricted to only 1 or 2 types of weapons. And all bonuses from all classes are added together thus making the character a bit more effective one or the other depending on how you decide to multiclass if you do. In this instance if you truly wanted to, you could make a duel wielding paladin if you so wanted to. Can you do that in EQ2?
Diversity is being able to have a form of allowing the players to make adjustments as they see fit and allow them freedom to make themselves tank more or do more damage or even be more utility. Some have different opinions all together on how and what exactly to do, but as long as the options are there.
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Actually, that's what it looks like so far. They're reducing diversity and differentiation. it's not like there's a lot of diversity and player decisions about roles, etc. It just looks and feels like "once a fighter, always a fighter" with a straight-forward, blind devotion to the original idea (tank, tank, tank). I'd like a Monk to feel different than a berserker, a Paladin to be a mix of Priest and Warrior (like, uh, they're supposed to be?). And so forth.
And stop NERFing things because they aren't smart enough to figure out a solution other than "nerf all classes so the progression is slower per level". That's not a solution, it's just a NERF posing as a solution.
Again, it's not that the CU isn't necessary (there are a lot of things I don't like, a lot of imbalances), but I just don't like the feel that the Test server is showing. Seems like a mindless "reduce power across the board to slow progression level to level, so people don't make it to lvl 50 so fast".
No way and now how would I call you a fanboy, hell your happy with the changes and thats fantastic, especially since your happy with your class which makes this revamp all that much better for you. But my question to you is this.
Now that all tanks are pretty much, just tanks, and now that clerics are the healer to have, why would a group need you ? Now it's by far much better for a raid, or any group for that matter, to have a 2 Guardians, 1 Cleric (inq or temp), 1 support healer if one's is around, and the rest dps (mages, scouts). I mean sure you might get a pick up group here and there but when the chips are down players are going to want the archetypes that can do the job best and that is just quite simply Guardians. Furthermore, if you plan on being a fighter type, why take anything else, whats the point if all you want to do is be the best tank possible for people ? And that don't get me wrong, if your ok with that thats great but I'm curious what it doesn't bother you at all.
Personally, like you, I didn't might the cut in DPS for my warden, and I didn't mind that my heals got cut by nearly half, and I didn't mind that I've been regulated to nothing more then a back up healer but what I do mind is loosing what little difference there was between myself and every other healer and being told that... well this is just the way things are now, live with it. The nice thing about freedom of subscription is I don't have to stay and so I'm not
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I have to admit.....I am really looking forward to this upgrade since it will guarantee
1. players bashing SOE
2. players defending SOE against fellow players
3. players attacking fellow players
4. players cancelling their subscriptions
ahhhhhhh yes I can't wait .......now let me load up on popcorn and mountain dew
when i picked a hybrid class i realized that i obviously wasnt going to particularly specialize in anything. the reason im happy about the combat revamp is because before it we werent GOOD at anything, not only did we not SPECIALIZE in anything, we we'rent that good period. we were a 50/50 healer/tank. now, with the combat revamp, we're more of a 30/70 healer/tank, which is good because it allows to be useful at all. before the combat revamp basically the only reason i got into raids was because of my rez, simply put along with dirges it was the best in the game, so if someone went down it was my job to get them back up and fast. now with the combat revamp i still have the best rez in the game, but i have good buffs too, which makes me more useful to a raids. also, one of the ideas behind the cu is that different tank classes will be needed for different mobs. one of my skills, Bendiction, which is now my defensive stance, gives me 1000+ mitigation to both heat and divine. my guess is that means paladins are the must have tanks for mobs that deal heat and divine damage. as for the individual group thing, you're right sort of. before the combat revamp if there was only one group in the zone and me and a guardian LFG, they would pick him before me hands down. the good thing is that now since they've increased (yes increased, they didnt nerd everything!) my ability to tank across the board, the reasons to pick that guardian over me has gone down dramatically.
on another note, just something i want to throw in... you say that now clerics are the "must have" healers. thats not entirely true, they USED to be the "must have" healers for several reasons.
a) their reactives, especially once upgraded, were extremely powerful
b) when their reactives went off on a person, it gave hate to the person who it went off on, instead of the templar. so say the templar has 4 reactives on tank Bob. every time it ticks, Bob gets the hate that should have gone to the templar, making it much easier to keep agro with a templar healing you than with anyone else.
both of these have changed. ALL heals for all classes with heals (especially templars) have been nerfed in some degree in the combat revamp, so it wasnt just for wardens. dont think that this is just an across the board super nerf though, because the mobs also deal less damage than they used to. alzo,the hate thing mentioned above has been swapped, going back to what it was originall meant to be with the templar recieving hate every time a heal ticked.
more proof that they arent just swinging the nerf bat at everything, heres this. before the CU shamans were one of the most gimped classes in the game (ask any high level raider in the game), because their wards didnt take into account mitigation. so say a shaman ward wards for 500 points of damage. a mob hits a person for 500 points of damage, but they have 50% mitigation so they only TAKE 250 points of damage. before the CU the ward would have ignored the mitigation and would have been completely removed because the mob technically swung for 500 points. now with the CU only half the ward would have been used up because it goes on damage TAKEN instead of damge DEALT. make sense? so even though the physical amount of points that shaman wards take has been "nerfed", their effectiveness has been dramatically improved.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
lol this discussion really reminds me of the SWG Combat upgrade. Some people whining like hell on the forums predicting SWG's death within the next weeks...but I think most people will agree that the CU didnt do any damage to the game. In fact many people really like the CU after they got used to it.
to be honest....
I think the combat upgrade is a foretaste of open game PvP
But that's my opinion
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
if that happens it could be the day I quite EQ II.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World