I felt the need to activate an account just to respond to this thread, inspite several years of just watching from the sidelines.
Number 1.
MMORPG.com- While this overall issue needs public awareness. EVE, CCP, The Mittani and Goons do not. Someone screwed up, the company took action. But now the person(s) responsible for all this are riding on a wave crest of infamy and are actually encouraging this behavior in the future and MMORPG is not helping. Frankly....Shame on you!
Number 2.
Expounding on my point from Number 1, References to EVE, The Wis, The Mittani and Goons need to be removed from this equation.
This could have been any online community/forum, The Victim could have been anyone anywhere and the forum moderators could have been any sponsor.
It boils down to Alex Gianturco misusing a platfor offered up by CCP, who ultimately acted on on the issue. End of story. This is not about the actions of The Mittani in the EVE world. This is about the actions of real person in the real world. And the victim is irrelevant. The actions speak for themself.
And that is the absolute truth of it. Did I like what happened? No. It wasn't cool. But I'm not put off from playing CCP's future games. It's been dealt with and it's done. We can all argue until the cows come home about how it was dealt with, what the outcome was etc but it's not changing a single thing.
I know it's popular to say "alchohol isn't an excuse" but it really is. Anyone with any real experience with alchohol or even a rudimentary understanding of brain chemistry knows that it really is an excuse for bad behavior.
Alchohol changes brain chemistry it litterally changes what kind of person you are. It lowers inhibitions (you know all those filters and controls that we normally apply to our behavior and actions) it clouds one's judgement so you do things like think "I'm ok to drive" when to any rational objective observer you are most certainly not in any condition to drive or think it's a good/funny idea to sic your alliance on some botter who threatened to kill himself.
no its actually not an excuse for bad behavior its just the drunk being stupid. again like i said go get drunk and beat up some random person and tell the cops you were drunk ... think they are going to let you go?
how about drunk driving as you mentioned do you know that if you get into an accident you will be punished more harshly if you were driving drunk.
if you do stupid shit while being drunk then you should stop drinking.
Way to make MASSIVE, BROAD, GENERALIZED statements about the Eve community at large.
Most people are just like Mittens?
No. No way in hell.
The 0.0 corps represent probably over half of the player base. The 0.0 corps that do nothing but plan out ways to grief as many people as possible are a very small minority. And let me be clear:
Blowing up a miner isn't griefing. That's just taking out an easy target. It's not really challenging and it won't actually get you anything, but it isn't griefing.
Go around and hacking in to forums and vents and stealing personal information or calling someone's place of work is not only the ESSENCE of griefing, but it's also illegal.
Mittens and other goons have not only proudly admitted to being part of these types of activities, but they've been caught doing them. How none of them have been arrested is another matter that I'm not going to bother thinking about.
Endlessly trying to scam people is griefing. You won't get scammed unless you're stupid enough to let it happen and seeing endless scam spam is just plain annoying. It's the only reason I wish there were a rule against it. It's so DAMNED annoying trying to buy something when you have to drag through endless scam spam and scam contracts. If your only purpose of trying to scam is just to annoy people, then bravo, but otherwise I would like to see it gone.
Even then the people who perpetrate the myriad forms of griefing in Eve represent a minority of players.
Gatecamping isn't griefing. Suiciding ganking is borderline griefing, but doesn't really happen much anymore. Jumping someone who is sitting in a deadzone (if you can find them) isn't griefing.
There's PvP and then there's griefing. Then there's griefing that's also illegal. Most capsuleers PvP with teensy bits of smacktalk here and there.
I felt the need to activate an account just to respond to this thread, inspite several years of just watching from the sidelines.
Number 1.
Welcome to MMORPG.com
Thank you.
Now you are here, put on your tin foil hat and get posting random thoughts along with the rest of us
LOL, I know what goes on here, Normally, I see no reaosn to argue over moot gaming issues, But my family has been affected by Cyber Bullying. It wrong and there are no excuses. The fact seems that people can hide behind artifical personna and commit wrong doings while escaping accountability, needs to be addressed.
Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
The game is the game, when you confuse it with life you have a problem.
+1
I play EVE and i have never "ganked" anyone. But people who get butt hurt because there CHARACTER was killed in a game and call it cyber bullying need to play a different game or more importantly stop taking games so seriously.
I mean calling ganking cyber bullying really undermines the term that is actually very serious.
FACT - The Mitanni was cyber bullied. He (AS IN A REAL LIFE PERSON) has gotten death threats and people have threatened to kill his dog. THIS IS SERIOUS
What goes on in EVE ONLINE is NOT SERIOUS
Peopel need a REALITY CHECK
CAPS!
NO ONE is saying anything about ganking, most peoples problem has to stem from this douchebag coming on "stage" at a party and telling others to try and get someone to commit suicide. FACT
like someone else said if mittani killed the guy over and over and over and the guy killed himself i would be totally on the EVE players side, saying if you can't take the ganking you shouldn't be playing on a FFA PVP game. however when Mittani came out at the convention and told people this guys ingame name and said they might be able to get him to commit suicide ... thats what i have a problem with.
Did you even read the post i was replying too? I dont condone what Mitanni did the guys a real douche bag. I was defending EVE players....because the "i dont want to get banned so i wont call him names" above me said that EVE breeds cyber bullies.
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
The Mittani is a Goon and chairman of CSM 6. The author Ross McDermot, aka White Tree, is a former Goon and CSM 6 member. Yeah. I stopped reading right there.
There you go, I bet he didn't publicly condemn the Mittani's actions.
What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?
Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
Here if you keep um , disagreeing with me ill kill myself.
Do i win now? For real tho. Do i win now?
See its not your job to know or care. You are allowed to care, but not required to care. When people say shit such as, my mercs will get you, hey hello please don't kill me im a nut short and will kill myself if you do so, i'll make you payyyyyyyyyyyyy. You can kill them and encourage whoever, however you like to kill them also.
In games that do not allow harasment of characters you can be banned. EVE allows and even encourages such acitivites. Sorry but you cannot be held accountable for others actions that are outside of the norm.
Such as maybe now this thread as encouraged me to beat my dog (out of rage and self loathing) are you know responisble? Even tho i warned you i am bit unstable?
edit- im not really gonna do this shit - duh (but how do you know?)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have fought Goonswarm in many wars, in those wars I gained a respect for the strategy and unity within.
Over time I ended up joining them, I have been in fleets where we went back 8 jumps to fetch a disconnected ally or a titan bridge was lit for just one person who crashed.
In game people who will scam, gank and destroy challenging the game mechanics forcing emergent gameplay but will stand side by side against any foe.
I have played eve for 7 years and for the first time I am in an alliance without incompetent leaders doing "things" that are both fun as hell and challenging.
Goonswarm are the ultimate evolution of the eve universe ideology of Darwinism, punishing stupidity at every turn after all, even thought it is common knowledge that goonswarm scam people, that a simple check online will show the first page of the joining wiki explains the scams, people still fall for it, still use mittani as a 3rd party titan trader.
Raiden, NC. and the others made it personal and out of game by using this issue to trash the mittani out of game and I will use all my skill, my knowledge of pvp to make them burn in game.
I am not a yes man, I follow the Mittani and fight for Goonswarm because they earned my respect.
What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?
Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
its one thing not to care in game about someone threatening suicide, its another thing to go to a public forum and tell others to try and get the guy to commit suicide.
i can't believe people don't see the difference.
as i said before Mittani could have killed this dude 100 times and have the police find the guy a week later dead with a suicide not saying "he killed himself because of Mittani". I would have sided with Mittani however when he went to this public forum and told the people in attendance the guys ingame name and said they should try to get him to commit suicide, that is completely mittanis fault.
I have fought Goonswarm in many wars, in those wars I gained a respect for the strategy and unity within.
Over time I ended up joining them, I have been in fleets where we went back 8 jumps to fetch a disconnected ally or a titan bridge was lit for just one person who crashed.
In game people who will scam, gank and destroy challenging the game mechanics forcing emergent gameplay but will stand side by side against any foe.
I have played eve for 7 years and for the first time I am in an alliance without incompetent leaders doing "things" that are both fun as hell and challenging.
Goonswarm are the ultimate evolution of the eve universe ideology of Darwinism, punishing stupidity at every turn after all, even thought it is common knowledge that goonswarm scam people, that a simple check online will show the first page of the joining wiki explains the scams, people still fall for it, still use mittani as a 3rd party titan trader.
Raiden, NC. and the others made it personal and out of game by using this issue to trash the mittani out of game and I will use all my skill, my knowledge of pvp to make them burn in game.
I am not a yes man, I follow the Mittani and fight for Goonswarm because they earned my respect.
Please don't take me the wrong way when I say this.
But, What does all that have to do with what Alex Gianturco did at a public speaking event?
Thing is, EVE does not hide what it is. You play EVE knowing full well what happens.
Had The Mittani handled the Wis in game and never mentioned it anywhere else, Not one person would have any leg to stand on to complain.
The Wis doesn't have to play EVE if he wants to avoid such exposure. But it's a bit harder to "turn it off" when it's gone public and you were made a fool out of at a formal event.
Edit 1:
Anyway, Peace out people. I said what i wanted to.
Poor, Poor the Mittani.. I hope he hasntgone all depressed and suicidal.....I hope the Eve community show him as much compassion/sensitivity as he's shown to others.
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
People do dumb things all the damned time, even otherwise smart people. But we don't tar and feather every person who does so nor do we permanently pin inappropriate labels on them.
Actually the way i see it is a bit different.
Evil gets you at most jail with free healthcare, zero living costs and protection from whomever you wronged, possible for life(but usually it just gets you alot of money and good social status).
Dumb however gets you killed, maimed or scarred for life(figuratively or even literally) while being shunned from society.
Not saying its fair or right or anything, but that seems about the extent of how our societies work. True sometimes evil people get what they truly deserve, but usually only once they turn dumb evil people. Infact being evil is totally socially acceptable(just look how many outright dictators get full honors when visiting socalled democratic nations) and might even get you rewards depending on your position(think managers in a big company, lay of people at home, built new facilities in some third world country, have children work for less than a dollar a day and you can get a fat bonus plus an even bigger bonus if you somehow manage to ruin the company while doing so).
Dumb on the other hand ... well you probably end up working for people like that.
But back on topic ... Mittani got the punishment that fit his actions, not the one which he deserved.
- What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?
Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
Here if you keep um , disagreeing with me ill kill myself.
Do i win now? For real tho. Do i win now?
See its not your job to know or care. You are allowed to care, but not required to care. When people say shit such as, my mercs will get you, hey hello please don't kill me im a nut short and will kill myself if you do so, i'll make you payyyyyyyyyyyyy. You can kill them and encourage whoever, however you like to kill them also.
In games that do not allow harasment of characters you can be banned. EVE allows and even encourages such acitivites. Sorry but you cannot be held accountable for others actions that are outside of the norm.
Such as maybe now this thread as encouraged me to beat my dog (out of rage and self loathing) are you know responisble? Even tho i warned you i am bit unstable?
edit- im not really gonna do this shit - duh (but how do you know?)
The point is not the in game ganking, the game is the game, the issue is that the Mittani took that shit out of game and was caught on camera encouraging people to try and get someone to kill himself, if GS has hit the miner endlessly in game WITHOUT THAT BROADCAST and he had killed himself people would have blamed the wiz for the action and not GS
I have fought Goonswarm in many wars, in those wars I gained a respect for the strategy and unity within.
Over time I ended up joining them, I have been in fleets where we went back 8 jumps to fetch a disconnected ally or a titan bridge was lit for just one person who crashed.
In game people who will scam, gank and destroy challenging the game mechanics forcing emergent gameplay but will stand side by side against any foe.
I have played eve for 7 years and for the first time I am in an alliance without incompetent leaders doing "things" that are both fun as hell and challenging.
Goonswarm are the ultimate evolution of the eve universe ideology of Darwinism, punishing stupidity at every turn after all, even thought it is common knowledge that goonswarm scam people, that a simple check online will show the first page of the joining wiki explains the scams, people still fall for it, still use mittani as a 3rd party titan trader.
Raiden, NC. and the others made it personal and out of game by using this issue to trash the mittani out of game and I will use all my skill, my knowledge of pvp to make them burn in game.
I am not a yes man, I follow the Mittani and fight for Goonswarm because they earned my respect.
who gives a crap what they do in game? this isn't about ganking scamming or anything in game this has to do with the guy calling on others outside the game to try and get a guy to commit suicide.
The Mittani is a Goon and chairman of CSM 6. The author Ross McDermot, aka White Tree, is a former Goon and CSM 6 member. Yeah. I stopped reading right there.
There you go, I bet he didn't publicly condemn the Mittani's actions.
That is correct. I didnt.
He in that sentence = White Tree, are you White Tree aka Ross McDermot?
One of the first things I was told when i joined Goonswarm, was to kill myself.
ISP providers should give every person who gets an internet connection a box of tissues.
Wait i am resposible for you.
Do you still feel the need to kill youself now?
How about in the last month?
Do you have a plan?
(I hate this, this shit is serious. But people are just so warped by this PC crap and bloodthristy to blame someone (in the name of justice), they get to thinking things like that is never acceptable. And you cannot say that. Or your actions have consequences, even if they are driven by a maligned understanding of reality and personal resposibility; which insure someone pays, we don't look at the real issue, and no one in power get sued).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
One of the first things I was told when i joined Goonswarm, was to kill myself.
ISP providers should give every person who gets an internet connection a box of tissues.
Wait i am resposible for you.
Do you still feel the need to kill youself now?
How about in the last month?
Do you have a plan?
(I hate this, this shit is serious. But people are just so warped by this PC crap and bloodthristy to blame someone (in the name of justice), they get to thinking things like that is never acceptable. And you cannot say that. Or your actions have consequences, even if they are driven by a maligned understanding of reality and personal resposibility; which insure someone pays, we don't look at the real issue, and no one in power get sued).
now you're not even trying to read what people are saying are you?
The Mittani is a Goon and chairman of CSM 6. The author Ross McDermot, aka White Tree, is a former Goon and CSM 6 member.
Yeah. I stopped reading right there.
There you go, I bet he didn't publicly condemn the Mittani's actions.
That is correct. I didnt.
He in that sentence = White Tree, are you White Tree aka Ross McDermot?
White Tree is a former member of TEST if I remember correctly, you could argue that TEST are goons 2.0 but he wasn't actually a goon and is not currently in the goon bloc as far as I know.
What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?
Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
its one thing not to care in game about someone threatening suicide, its another thing to go to a public forum and tell others to try and get the guy to commit suicide.
i can't believe people don't see the difference.
as i said before Mittani could have killed this dude 100 times and have the police find the guy a week later dead with a suicide not saying "he killed himself because of Mittani". I would have sided with Mittani however when he went to this public forum and told the people in attendance the guys ingame name and said they should try to get him to commit suicide, that is completely mittanis fault.
Ok lets get this squared up.
If in-game Mittani said, hey guys there is a xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in at a get together and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am using a video chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in a voice chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Do you understand the things coming out of your heads via your fingers?
Lets try this.
If in real life, someone called you on a blocked number and said, transfer xxxxx amount of funds to xxxxx account in the caymens or ill kill myself. And you said f'ing do it prixx. Thats ok? But if you told someone else in real life to tell that azz to go ahead and do it. That is not ok?
Seems like a rather weak/ non-existant distinction.
Plus its a game, remember Mittani only encouraged in-game actions. Thus i think your premise is faulty. As in game or out, only in-game actions as part of regular EVE game play were encouraged.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
- What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?
Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
its one thing not to care in game about someone threatening suicide, its another thing to go to a public forum and tell others to try and get the guy to commit suicide.
i can't believe people don't see the difference.
as i said before Mittani could have killed this dude 100 times and have the police find the guy a week later dead with a suicide not saying "he killed himself because of Mittani". I would have sided with Mittani however when he went to this public forum and told the people in attendance the guys ingame name and said they should try to get him to commit suicide, that is completely mittanis fault.
Ok lets get this squared up.
If in-game Mittani said, hey guys there is a xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in at a get together and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am using a video chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in a voice chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Do you understand the things coming out of your heads via your fingers?
Lets try this.
If in real life, someone called you on a blocked number and said, transfer xxxxx amount of funds to xxxxx account in the caymens or ill kill myself. And you said f'ing do it prixx. Thats ok? But if you told someone else in real life to tell that azz to go ahead and do it. That is not ok?
Seems like a rather weak/ non-existant distinction.
Plus its a game, remember Mittani only encouraged in-game actions. Thus i think your premise is faulty. As in game or out, only in-game actions as part of regular EVE game play were encouraged.
Personally, I believe doing anything in the hope that it gets someone to kill the self is wrong, you seem to think differently.
Comments
And that is the absolute truth of it. Did I like what happened? No. It wasn't cool. But I'm not put off from playing CCP's future games. It's been dealt with and it's done. We can all argue until the cows come home about how it was dealt with, what the outcome was etc but it's not changing a single thing.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
no its actually not an excuse for bad behavior its just the drunk being stupid. again like i said go get drunk and beat up some random person and tell the cops you were drunk ... think they are going to let you go?
how about drunk driving as you mentioned do you know that if you get into an accident you will be punished more harshly if you were driving drunk.
if you do stupid shit while being drunk then you should stop drinking.
Way to make MASSIVE, BROAD, GENERALIZED statements about the Eve community at large.
Most people are just like Mittens?
No. No way in hell.
The 0.0 corps represent probably over half of the player base. The 0.0 corps that do nothing but plan out ways to grief as many people as possible are a very small minority. And let me be clear:
Blowing up a miner isn't griefing. That's just taking out an easy target. It's not really challenging and it won't actually get you anything, but it isn't griefing.
Go around and hacking in to forums and vents and stealing personal information or calling someone's place of work is not only the ESSENCE of griefing, but it's also illegal.
Mittens and other goons have not only proudly admitted to being part of these types of activities, but they've been caught doing them. How none of them have been arrested is another matter that I'm not going to bother thinking about.
Endlessly trying to scam people is griefing. You won't get scammed unless you're stupid enough to let it happen and seeing endless scam spam is just plain annoying. It's the only reason I wish there were a rule against it. It's so DAMNED annoying trying to buy something when you have to drag through endless scam spam and scam contracts. If your only purpose of trying to scam is just to annoy people, then bravo, but otherwise I would like to see it gone.
Even then the people who perpetrate the myriad forms of griefing in Eve represent a minority of players.
Gatecamping isn't griefing. Suiciding ganking is borderline griefing, but doesn't really happen much anymore. Jumping someone who is sitting in a deadzone (if you can find them) isn't griefing.
There's PvP and then there's griefing. Then there's griefing that's also illegal. Most capsuleers PvP with teensy bits of smacktalk here and there.
LOL, I know what goes on here, Normally, I see no reaosn to argue over moot gaming issues, But my family has been affected by Cyber Bullying. It wrong and there are no excuses. The fact seems that people can hide behind artifical personna and commit wrong doings while escaping accountability, needs to be addressed.
The Mittani is a Goon and chairman of CSM 6. The author Ross McDermot, aka White Tree, is a former Goon and CSM 6 member.
Yeah. I stopped reading right there.
Did you even read the post i was replying too? I dont condone what Mitanni did the guys a real douche bag. I was defending EVE players....because the "i dont want to get banned so i wont call him names" above me said that EVE breeds cyber bullies.
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
There you go, I bet he didn't publicly condemn the Mittani's actions.And the fact that MMORPG.com has spun off this event to hype ingame changes made by the fallout of all this makes me want to vomit.
Really guys?
Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
Here if you keep um , disagreeing with me ill kill myself.
Do i win now? For real tho. Do i win now?
See its not your job to know or care. You are allowed to care, but not required to care. When people say shit such as, my mercs will get you, hey hello please don't kill me im a nut short and will kill myself if you do so, i'll make you payyyyyyyyyyyyy. You can kill them and encourage whoever, however you like to kill them also.
In games that do not allow harasment of characters you can be banned. EVE allows and even encourages such acitivites. Sorry but you cannot be held accountable for others actions that are outside of the norm.
Such as maybe now this thread as encouraged me to beat my dog (out of rage and self loathing) are you know responisble? Even tho i warned you i am bit unstable?
edit- im not really gonna do this shit - duh (but how do you know?)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have fought Goonswarm in many wars, in those wars I gained a respect for the strategy and unity within.
Over time I ended up joining them, I have been in fleets where we went back 8 jumps to fetch a disconnected ally or a titan bridge was lit for just one person who crashed.
In game people who will scam, gank and destroy challenging the game mechanics forcing emergent gameplay but will stand side by side against any foe.
I have played eve for 7 years and for the first time I am in an alliance without incompetent leaders doing "things" that are both fun as hell and challenging.
Goonswarm are the ultimate evolution of the eve universe ideology of Darwinism, punishing stupidity at every turn after all, even thought it is common knowledge that goonswarm scam people, that a simple check online will show the first page of the joining wiki explains the scams, people still fall for it, still use mittani as a 3rd party titan trader.
Raiden, NC. and the others made it personal and out of game by using this issue to trash the mittani out of game and I will use all my skill, my knowledge of pvp to make them burn in game.
I am not a yes man, I follow the Mittani and fight for Goonswarm because they earned my respect.
One of the first things I was told when i joined Goonswarm, was to kill myself.
ISP providers should give every person who gets an internet connection a box of tissues.
its one thing not to care in game about someone threatening suicide, its another thing to go to a public forum and tell others to try and get the guy to commit suicide.
i can't believe people don't see the difference.
as i said before Mittani could have killed this dude 100 times and have the police find the guy a week later dead with a suicide not saying "he killed himself because of Mittani". I would have sided with Mittani however when he went to this public forum and told the people in attendance the guys ingame name and said they should try to get him to commit suicide, that is completely mittanis fault.
Please don't take me the wrong way when I say this.
But, What does all that have to do with what Alex Gianturco did at a public speaking event?
Thing is, EVE does not hide what it is. You play EVE knowing full well what happens.
Had The Mittani handled the Wis in game and never mentioned it anywhere else, Not one person would have any leg to stand on to complain.
The Wis doesn't have to play EVE if he wants to avoid such exposure. But it's a bit harder to "turn it off" when it's gone public and you were made a fool out of at a formal event.
Edit 1:
Anyway, Peace out people. I said what i wanted to.
Poor, Poor the Mittani.. I hope he hasntgone all depressed and suicidal.....I hope the Eve community show him as much compassion/sensitivity as he's shown to others.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Actually the way i see it is a bit different.
Evil gets you at most jail with free healthcare, zero living costs and protection from whomever you wronged, possible for life(but usually it just gets you alot of money and good social status).
Dumb however gets you killed, maimed or scarred for life(figuratively or even literally) while being shunned from society.
Not saying its fair or right or anything, but that seems about the extent of how our societies work. True sometimes evil people get what they truly deserve, but usually only once they turn dumb evil people. Infact being evil is totally socially acceptable(just look how many outright dictators get full honors when visiting socalled democratic nations) and might even get you rewards depending on your position(think managers in a big company, lay of people at home, built new facilities in some third world country, have children work for less than a dollar a day and you can get a fat bonus plus an even bigger bonus if you somehow manage to ruin the company while doing so).
Dumb on the other hand ... well you probably end up working for people like that.
But back on topic ... Mittani got the punishment that fit his actions, not the one which he deserved.
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
Here if you keep um , disagreeing with me ill kill myself.
Do i win now? For real tho. Do i win now?
See its not your job to know or care. You are allowed to care, but not required to care. When people say shit such as, my mercs will get you, hey hello please don't kill me im a nut short and will kill myself if you do so, i'll make you payyyyyyyyyyyyy. You can kill them and encourage whoever, however you like to kill them also.
In games that do not allow harasment of characters you can be banned. EVE allows and even encourages such acitivites. Sorry but you cannot be held accountable for others actions that are outside of the norm.
Such as maybe now this thread as encouraged me to beat my dog (out of rage and self loathing) are you know responisble? Even tho i warned you i am bit unstable?
edit- im not really gonna do this shit - duh (but how do you know?)
The point is not the in game ganking, the game is the game, the issue is that the Mittani took that shit out of game and was caught on camera encouraging people to try and get someone to kill himself, if GS has hit the miner endlessly in game WITHOUT THAT BROADCAST and he had killed himself people would have blamed the wiz for the action and not GSwho gives a crap what they do in game? this isn't about ganking scamming or anything in game this has to do with the guy calling on others outside the game to try and get a guy to commit suicide.
That is correct. I didnt.
There you go, I bet he didn't publicly condemn the Mittani's actions.That is correct. I didnt.
He in that sentence = White Tree, are you White Tree aka Ross McDermot?Wait i am resposible for you.
Do you still feel the need to kill youself now?
How about in the last month?
Do you have a plan?
(I hate this, this shit is serious. But people are just so warped by this PC crap and bloodthristy to blame someone (in the name of justice), they get to thinking things like that is never acceptable. And you cannot say that. Or your actions have consequences, even if they are driven by a maligned understanding of reality and personal resposibility; which insure someone pays, we don't look at the real issue, and no one in power get sued).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
now you're not even trying to read what people are saying are you?
White Tree is a former member of TEST if I remember correctly, you could argue that TEST are goons 2.0 but he wasn't actually a goon and is not currently in the goon bloc as far as I know.
What's silly is how this has completely eclipsed the RMT bannings which have left several PL wallets deep in negatives.
Ok lets get this squared up.
If in-game Mittani said, hey guys there is a xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in at a get together and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am using a video chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in a voice chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Do you understand the things coming out of your heads via your fingers?
Lets try this.
If in real life, someone called you on a blocked number and said, transfer xxxxx amount of funds to xxxxx account in the caymens or ill kill myself. And you said f'ing do it prixx. Thats ok? But if you told someone else in real life to tell that azz to go ahead and do it. That is not ok?
Seems like a rather weak/ non-existant distinction.
Plus its a game, remember Mittani only encouraged in-game actions. Thus i think your premise is faulty. As in game or out, only in-game actions as part of regular EVE game play were encouraged.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?Yeah the point was, he doesn't need to care about x guy in a game threating to kill himself. There ya go there is the reality of it.
its one thing not to care in game about someone threatening suicide, its another thing to go to a public forum and tell others to try and get the guy to commit suicide.
i can't believe people don't see the difference.
as i said before Mittani could have killed this dude 100 times and have the police find the guy a week later dead with a suicide not saying "he killed himself because of Mittani". I would have sided with Mittani however when he went to this public forum and told the people in attendance the guys ingame name and said they should try to get him to commit suicide, that is completely mittanis fault.
Ok lets get this squared up.
If in-game Mittani said, hey guys there is a xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in at a get together and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That us NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am using a video chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is NOT ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Now if i am in a voice chat and say the other day this xxxx over here threating to kill himself in an attempt not to get podded, lets pod him till he does. That is ok ? According to you and that one other guy in this thread.
Do you understand the things coming out of your heads via your fingers?
Lets try this.
If in real life, someone called you on a blocked number and said, transfer xxxxx amount of funds to xxxxx account in the caymens or ill kill myself. And you said f'ing do it prixx. Thats ok? But if you told someone else in real life to tell that azz to go ahead and do it. That is not ok?
Seems like a rather weak/ non-existant distinction.
Plus its a game, remember Mittani only encouraged in-game actions. Thus i think your premise is faulty. As in game or out, only in-game actions as part of regular EVE game play were encouraged.
Personally, I believe doing anything in the hope that it gets someone to kill the self is wrong, you seem to think differently.