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Horizons: Re-Review
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Jon Wood, aka newsmonger Stradden, has checked in with his full re-review of Horizons. A few months ago, after our Progress Report, we promised to take a second fully critical look at this title. Today you have it!
;) When asked to review Horizons, I really was not sure what to expect. All I really know about it was that it was an older fantasy based MMO with a couple of points of interest. Well start with the playable races. Not only does Horizons offer a deviation from the standard races with visibly non-human choices like the Saris (neat looking cat creatures) and the Sslik (lizard folk), but they also give MMO players the much desired ability to play a Dragon. Second, they have a fairly detailed and interesting crafting system. Ill be honest. I do not personally care too much for crafting in games. More often than not, I find it to be tedious, boring and pointless
It just reminds me of playing The Sims and I am one of those people that cannot stand that type of game. I like my items pre-made for me so I can spend my time exploring and killing. Call me old fashioned (or deeply disturbed), but its just not my bag. I respect that some players love it; I even respect the fact that its presence creates a well-rounded game and broadens the games fan base. Still, I never do it. That being said, I was told that I should at least take a look at it. It was supposed to be pretty good. Fine, I will look. |
You can read the full review here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Very fair review of Horizons IMO. It isn't super fantastic but it does home some unique things that are awesome and not really represented in any other game. Also the crafting is, as he said, "muey bueno" and at least in the top 3 of any crafting system in creation.
But one thing about the review I have to take TOTAL and COMPLETE exception to. The music HO-HUM???? The freakin music in Horizons is THE best in any game ever! It is haunting and dramatic and freaking amazing! I have no idea what this guy was smoking when he listened to the music but he is WAY off and I wouldn't say anything except that I am a musician and the music is the stuff dreams are made of!
Other than that a good review. But GAWD really! The music is to fall in love with, I am totally perplexed as to what the heck this guy was listening to.
When Jon told me he found the music ho-hum, I MADE him go back and listen again as I agree with you.
He still thought it was quite typical... But he definitely was made to give it a second look before reaching that decision
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I have to agree, very fair review - except for the music.
And you can listen to the racial themes here:
http://www.istaria.com/page.php?pg=characters&mid=Elves
It's gorgeous and that doesn't count some of the sound effects or the attack music.
I've yet to play another game that comes close.
Yep, i agree as well... IMO, Horizons has the best music in any MMO out there
Fair review? Hmm..
How can it be fair? He started off the review by stating he wasn't comparing the game to any other MMOs because Horizons was "unique" and therefore it wouldnt be "fair" to compare it.. Ok..
Guys if you love the game that's great but trying to pre-emptively armtwist a reviewer or show them a "whitewashed" version of the game as seen through the eyes of a twinked toon who played for no more than 2 weeks. Actually how long did the reviewer play the game for? Seriously, how many man hours did they play for? How many levels did they play and what crafting level did they get to? Did they break 30? 20? in 1 skill? how about multiclassing.. I mean thats what is suppose d to be a par tof HZ uniquness right? wouldnt it only be fair to experience the whole game before you concider yourself in a position to write a "review" about it on an MMO reviewing site?
Lets look again at some of those reviewing categories.. Where did he get those? Just make them up? Roleplaying? Community? Value? seriously... Ever seen those on a software review before? I havent and I was a professional reviewer for Game-Over.net for 2 years.
Guys the bottom line is that the game is what it is. To haul some poor victim in out of the blue, powerlevel him and show him a strongly "filtered" version of the game and then asking them to write an unbiased "review" is simply a waste of time. Anyone reading the 2 page advertisement can tell exactly how much personal experience the reviewer has.
No mention of the absolutely HORRID crafting grind post 50. No mention of the complete lack of Lairs or ARoP now almost a year beyond their promised drop dead date... No mention of the complete and utter lack of content in the game.. oops but maybe that would mean comparing it to other similar products in it's category and that would be wrong right? err yeah right.. *rolls eyes*
Enjoy your game guys. But remember as you slowly watch your worlds empty of people (I mean hell they've got less than 1/5 of the players they had last year at this time.) to ask yourself if your rose coloured glasses and dev coddling helped your cause. Or did it infact lull the devs into a sense of "oh it's good enough, our loyal following will put up with it." So instead of having what could have been the greatest MMO in history you ended up with the poster child for how not to run an MMO. All the broken dreams and promises that were wasted on Hz are sad. I'm glad I'm at least speaking out to remind developers and players alike that if you dont play by the rules you are going to get burned.
Slyx
If you dont play the game, why do HZ's reviews bother you??
If you dont play the game, why do HZ's reviews bother you??
It is how it is being presented. You can see clearly this review and even the players interview was done to put as good a face on a game that is clearly in trouble financially and has serious client issues. yet nothing is really said about that. This so called re-review not only puts the reviewer in a bad light but also the site that has posted it. But of course this is only imho.
But I would have loved to see a real fair review that covered all the real issues with the game.
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
Well, the thing is... i have been playing the trial for the past few days... and haven't noticed ONE client issue. I have been playing well over 6 hours (Xfire isnt always on) and been having loads of fun crafting and hunting every now and then.
Hehe, I think his review is extremely accurate for the beginning of Horizons, I feel the same...for the beginning. I didnt play more then a few days as I wasnt able to commit to a hardcore game and Horizons is obviously 1.
No matter how much you want to flame the reviewer, he never say anything about high end and he only show tiny little dragons, not any massive wurm.
The music in Horizons is good, but call me a fanboi, I prefer the music in CoH!
If only because it was so varied you never know what to expect!
I think he pinpoint a lot that the game is extremely hardcore to figure out exactly what to do(and not intuitive). Horizons is a nice game, at least from an entrance point of view...and the establish community is present and seem to be friendly and enjoying the game...and they answer random plead for info.
As for a "real review" considering the high end issue, you need folks that experience it first!
Having a review on the starting of the game is better then having no review...and his review IS ACCURATE for what he say and experience.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Sorry I am not d0zer, but you can believe whatever you like.
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
You really have issues dude and by the look of all the posts you must be subbed to every online game out there. Again I am not dozer, and I really don't think you know me let alone yourself the way you go from game to game.
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
LOL man do I know you. You just can't let me get the last word, even when you're trying to deny it's you. You are STILL the only person who purports to know what games I play just by my xfire profile and brings it up. No one ever has done that, that's how I knew it was you even when you were posting my xfire profile in that other thread. Man you're funny.
Watch now you'll post again because you can't stand for me to have the last word and to win. No one else talks like you DOZeR, no one could. It really is funny how you can't just let things go. Meh.
I'd have to agree with Jon. I didn't find the music in Horizons all that great. IMHO the music in Final Fantasy XI is by far the best MMO soundtrack to date.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I'd have to agree with Jon. I didn't find the music in Horizons all that great. IMHO the music in Final Fantasy XI is by far the best MMO soundtrack to date.
Ahhh the FFXI music is wondeful too, I just love Asian RPG music. I think it takes me back to Final Fantasy days as well as Suikoden and Secret of mana and and.... love those games and FFXI is top 5 I would say for sure. But Horizons I think is right up there too, definately in the top 5 MMOG music of all time. If you didn't find the music in Horizons "all that great" well I would say you didn't hear much of it. And if you did, well, different strokes for different folks.
LOL man do I know you. You just can't let me get the last word, even when you're trying to deny it's you. You are STILL the only person who purports to know what games I play just by my xfire profile and brings it up. No one ever has done that, that's how I knew it was you even when you were posting my xfire profile in that other thread. Man you're funny.
Watch now you'll post again because you can't stand for me to have the last word and to win. No one else talks like you DOZeR, no one could. It really is funny how you can't just let things go. Meh.
Actually I hate to be called a liar and the reason I know the xfire account you use it was posted a few times in a few posts. I wonder how the mods can let you get away with so much on this site? you call people trolls all the time which is against the rules except by what you believe of course and now you can call other posters liars and the mods just let it go and of course also allow you to go right off topic whenever you like. I wonder maybe you are one of the mods just using another account. That would make a lot of sense.
You know what is even funnier is how you can keep making the same type posts over and over again and think you have any type of credibility left.
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
I would like to add a few things as a player:
While I agree with many of the good points made, I disagree with others. I play many, many games in this genre and I would not go so far as to say that Horizons branches from the stereotypical fantasy "norm." What makes the game distinct is the amount of control you have over the development of your character, their pastimes, and their skills. That is the main 'pro' in this game, which is saying a lot.
I felt like the tutorial was actually pretty good, although it could be expanded to hint at a few more basics.
As far as bells and whistles go, the music is really very nice, although I wish the tracks were a bit more varied. The graphics are good, but do break down in some instances, both literally and figuratively.
There are drawbacks to this game that I felt were not covered by the review. Some big concerns:
-The performance is still pretty lackluster, even with a big machine. While this can be dealt with, it often takes a long period of hit and miss optimizing which may not leave you with much. There is a large amount of lag, even at low settings. NPCs are sometimes missing. However, let me say that lag in this game is not a life or death issue (like it is with other games).
-I have read complaints where players have had a hard time with hardware that is listed as compatable when it is not. I have never seen any official documentation or news letting new players know about these known problems. Although I'm sure this will one day be rectified, I highly recommend a readthrough of the help/tech forums before you begin.
Smaller concerns:
-There are areas in the game which look only half finished and this is frankly very annoying.
-I am not aware of any updated player's handbook.
-There is very little in-game information about skills, items, and weaponry progression. A confused newbie can ask another player or leave a message on the forums, but this is not really the best situation. A new player's experience and any immersion factor would be enhanced greatly by more informative additions.
-Although Hz is generally accepted as a game that places roleplaying fairly high up on the priorities list, I really haven't seen a whole lot of roleplaying. On the other hand, I really can't say if there is more or less than on any other mmp RP server.
With all that said, I think that Horizons is about a 6/10 for most people and better than that for players who enjoy multiclassing and crafting. The amount of activities open to you are really pretty vast. The company has taken recent steps to make this game more accessable to the new or returning player, such as placing the knowledge base link in a more prominent spot on their site and lengthing the trial. Both are very good moves in my opinion.
On an ending note, I would like to add something that has nothing to do with the program itself: I have noticed that in reviews of this game a great deal of time is spent saying things like "yes, that is a problem, but the community is good." Although community is important in mmps, they shouldn't be relied on to sell a program. I have met very nice people in Horizons, but have also been treated less than decently. A good apple or bad apple shouldn't be what makes or breaks a program's success and community shouldn't be a crutch for incomplete design. I would rather read a direct, unbiased, consumer review about the program and make the decisions about the community for myself, as everyone views community differently. That goes for any game.
You have 10 posts on this site and yet you seem to have a deep knowledge and dislike of me lol that's another way I know it's you DOZeR. And I knew you wouldn't be able to keep from replying to me, that's just how you are. And if I was a moderator you think my posts would get deleted and my Elite status get taken away?
How can you not think I know it's you lol you are the only person in the universe who acts the way you do. And I never once posted my Xfire profile, if you really were new you wouldn't even know that I had xfire because I took it off my sig months ago. HEHE I guess they really did ban you. You just can't let me get the last word in, can you?
EDIT: also, only you would be upset at the lacklustre re-review Horizons got. You won't be happy till Horizons is dead and buried and you put on the last shovel full of dirt.
Anarchy I know Dozer pretty good myself but why you would just pick someone out that dislikes the review and say "Hey Dozer how goes it.." Heh thats just wierd.
Anyways man. I am not a flamer by nature but I just couldnt resist this one bait, please forigve me father I am about to sin
You said, "You won't be happy till Horizons is dead and buried and you put on the last shovel full of dirt."
Um lets recap.. They have less than 10k subs, the company went chapter 7 and sold itself back in Jan. They had to solicit a hunge new investment to even keep the servers open... What part of that doesnt read "dead and buried"
Still, if you enjoy Hz great. I still play it through trials and other means on occasion for research. I've been developing an indie MMO for .. 4 years now. I follow ALL MMOs as somewhat of a lifelong market research project. The reason I come off as a real hard ass on companies that pull the ignorant stuff that DB does is because I have to follow in their footsteps. How much harder is it for me and all the other cool indie MMO projects now because of failures like Hz? Let me tell you it's damn hard. It's not all HZ fault or DBs fault personally but the MMO marketplace over the last 2 years has been chock full of bad business models. Rubies of Eventide, Hz, AO (actually AO is a posterchild for what to do when your MMO tanks and hits rock bottom. What a great recovery those guys have done.) Wish dying, Mourning (Realms of Tormet, AMG those guys should be locked up and the key thrown away.)
Seriously though I wont argue with what certain people find fun. I just wish they'd look at the big picture a little more and hold developers slightly more accountable for their ignorance and broken comitments over and over and over
As a former Hz player, I was curious to see how the game would fair in a fresh review since I haven't played in many months. Unfortunately, this review, while giving a fair treatment to the flavor of the new player experience didn't inform us how the game stands today as a viable MMO. The fact this game was on the verge of disappearing last summer as it's owner was Chapter 11 is just one unmentioned issue.
The combat sounds about the same. Unimpressive. I know lag was a killer, making large events that the Dev's had planned almost impossible and the cause of huge dissatisfaction amoungst the players who left in droves a few months after release.
One really big difference compared to other genre games with Hz that the reviewer really ought not have ommitted is NO DUNGEONS. Unless that has change recently, it was a disappointing part of Hz's development that dungeons never made it off the "to do" list. Personally, I never felt like the content was complete on this game. If you love a good dungeon crawl, Horizons is NOT the game for you might have made the bullet list, I think.
The other issue was housing/land. As mentioned, Hz is a big time crafting game and much is focused on the construction of building plots where you can put up various types of houses and crafting structures. How do supply and demand issues stand with the housing these days? Did they add the promised new housing models? I'd love to hear if anyone wants to chime in.
Hz had a lot of potential. It's a shame to hear some of the same complaints on this thread about laggy combat and unfinished content though. It might still become a very good niche title if the combat system was completely revamped and Istaria got filled out with complete content.
No, no dungeons that I know.
Since I'm not a long time player I'm not sure if the housing market has changed in the way you're wanting to know... I am not sure what it was like before and do not own property now. There are plots of different sizes and prices, and you can even buy a small plot as a youngin' if you really want to. The production is very complex and can be the entire game if a person wants it to be. Many people band together or hire other craftspeople. Ifhouses and personal storage are high on your list of MMP Needs, this is definitely a game for you.
Hmmm ..
Nice intro, but a review? Far from it. I could have obtained most of the information from 5 minutes playing the game or reading the publisher blurb. There was nothing in the review to inform me about the gaming world, the storyline, landscape - content! All important - and the mechanics (with the exception of crating). Is this game skill or level based? PvE, PvP or a DaOC RvR system? How well have these mechanics been executed within the game?
Instead, a gloss coating has been applied to give the game a lovely sheen without informing the consumer of what the game is like to play and how it differs from its competitors in the MMOG marketplace. To refuse to compare it against its peers because it is so different displays either a lack of imagination or more sinister motives. Yet, the review does feel the compulsion to make a graphical comparison - if only to excuse the game due to being released in 2003. To neglect to mention any of the ingame 'issues' that have yet to be resolved, or the ongoing Chapter 11 situation leads me to question the real motivation for this re-review.
This in no way, shape or form be called either a review or re-review. A review must be balanced, objective and provide an accurate and informed description of what it is like to play the game. A re-review by its very nature, re-visits the initial review and provides an update on the state of the game, addressing the changes and how these changes have affected the game for good or ill.
Apart from the crafting system or dragons (and even those, are scant in actual detail on how they affect the game), I feel no better informed about this game or how it compares to its peers.
As an introductory opinion piece of a brand new player, it might serve some use. As an official re-review this piece falls way, way below what I would deem acceptable reviewing standards. Especially, as after reading it I am left none the wiser of what it is like to actually play the game.
Regards,
Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
I played Horizons and I also tried the trial again recently.
I'd say this Review is very fair.
And I agree with him on the Music. It's pretty but it doesn't feel like it's part of the game to me. Don't ask me why I just don't feel like the music fits.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas