You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.
No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.
Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..
You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.
"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.
Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.
Err.. that is a gear grind. Seriously, take a step back and think. Every hardcore-no-life-plays-80hoursaweek raider has the highest teir gear.. they all look the same. And WHY did they get that gear? so they can do the NEXT raid and get that gear so they can all look alike again. Some people will get it first and strut around with their new LOOKING gear. Take out the stats and raids and replace with hard ass dungeons and gear that just changes stats around. If someone can finnish that dungeon, he will have gear to show off also.
IF you think about it, the difference between a raid and a dungeon is in a Raid, you need gear from the previous raid, and you have to watch youtube to learn when to move. Oh, and you also need x amount of healers, x amount of tanks, x amount of ranged dps, and the rest your fill with whatever.
For the dungeons in GW2, you need 4 other people that you can work with, and work well. If you expect to get in there, put your left foot in, take your left foot out, put your right foot in and shake it all about while a healer plays whak-a-mole with health bars, well, you will die. You gotta dodge, heal yourself, help heal others, rez, take aggro for a few, and just try to mesh with your party.
Not saying one way is better then the other (though I do admitt, I am bias because I like what GW2 is selling). If you enjoy the gear treadmill, more power to you... just know this game is not for you and you might as well go away since your voice is NOT changing it, it is just starting an argument (and I think that is known as something).
So you both kinda agrees that GW2 ain´t for donkeys?
You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.
No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.
Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..
You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.
"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.
Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.
Err.. that is a gear grind. Seriously, take a step back and think. Every hardcore-no-life-plays-80hoursaweek raider has the highest teir gear.. they all look the same. And WHY did they get that gear? so they can do the NEXT raid and get that gear so they can all look alike again. Some people will get it first and strut around with their new LOOKING gear. Take out the stats and raids and replace with hard ass dungeons and gear that just changes stats around. If someone can finnish that dungeon, he will have gear to show off also.
IF you think about it, the difference between a raid and a dungeon is in a Raid, you need gear from the previous raid, and you have to watch youtube to learn when to move. Oh, and you also need x amount of healers, x amount of tanks, x amount of ranged dps, and the rest your fill with whatever.
For the dungeons in GW2, you need 4 other people that you can work with, and work well. If you expect to get in there, put your left foot in, take your left foot out, put your right foot in and shake it all about while a healer plays whak-a-mole with health bars, well, you will die. You gotta dodge, heal yourself, help heal others, rez, take aggro for a few, and just try to mesh with your party.
Not saying one way is better then the other (though I do admitt, I am bias because I like what GW2 is selling). If you enjoy the gear treadmill, more power to you... just know this game is not for you and you might as well go away since your voice is NOT changing it, it is just starting an argument (and I think that is known as something).
So you both kinda agrees that GW2 ain´t for donkeys?
For NOW.. just wait till I unveil my bio-engeeniered donkey with oposable thumbs! Fear the donkey stalking YOU in WvW!
One of my major concerns with GW2 is the possibility that all lvl 80 items will have identical stats. I was an avid original Guild Wars player and one of my biggest complaints is the fact that I wasn't rewarded for spending hours and hours accumulating items to build high-end Fissure armor. Yes, the armor looked cool, but it had the exact same stats as (lvl 20) Droknars Forge armor. So here's the question. Will my dedication and time be worth the investment in end game dungeons offer better armor that has better stats than other level 80 armor or will it all be the same???!!!! I really hope I'm not going to spend all these hours in this game just to find out that its a socialist nation at level 80....
Same stats, no. Balanced stats, yes.
For example, in most games you get to max lvl, and you have your base gear. Then there's tier1, then tier2, etc. etc. which all give you an edge over people with lower tiered gear.
In GW2 you hit max lvl, and you have different types of gear that are equally powerful. How does this work?
Some gear will be aimed more towards boosting your health & toughness. Some towards your power and crit. Some towards condition damage. etc. the stats are equal, but varied. A lvl 80 elementalist may want gear that boosts their healing, where as another elementalist may want armor that boosts their damage output. There's versatility there.
The incentive at 80 isn't much different than it is at lvl 1. It's to flesh out your character as much as possible, and make it so that your character is viable for as many different playstyles as you would like. This is of course ignoring the cosmetic / achievment side to the rewards that also come with. It's much more badass to role into battle looking like a warrior from hell, than a dude w/ a tin hat and a rusty greatsword.
You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.
No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.
Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..
You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.
"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.
Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.
You chase the carrot on the stick. I prefer having the run of the entire farm. I may prefer corn on the cob one of these days while you're still chasing that carrot...
Just think of it as customization in GW2, since you can choose the armor you want, and upgrade it with runes & sigils. You can also use transmutation stones to keep the same appearance of other armor (kind of like transmogrification in WoW).
You must be one of those players who like played time > actual skill. If I was good at the game but I didnt get to play much how would it be fair if some guy playes 24/7 and gets the leet gear and destroys me because of leet stats?
No life gaming is so old. GW2 may not be for you, but a job application should be.
Since when did MMO players become the Whiney bitches of the gaming world. You guys sound like a bunch of little girls who are fighting over a dolly.
Typically those who want all the gear without the work are the lazy asses from the WoW Camp where everything is given to you without any work.
If you are the best at anything there should be a reward. If all the armor/weapons are the same at lvl 80, GW2 will fail.. much the same way GW1 failed.
If you have nothing to strive for, you have no reason to log on. You can have the best pvp in the world, but if bad player A can look and aquire the same gear as good player B, no one will stay.
Its human nature to want to be recognised for your achievements and your merits. If you are the same as every other player then there is no reason to play.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Since when did MMO players become the Whiney bitches of the gaming world. You guys sound like a bunch of little girls who are fighting over a dolly.
Typically those who want all the gear without the work are the lazy asses from the WoW Camp where everything is given to you without any work.
If you are the best at anything there should be a reward. If all the armor/weapons are the same at lvl 80, GW2 will fail.. much the same way GW1 failed.
If you have nothing to strive for, you have no reason to log on. You can have the best pvp in the world, but if bad player A can look and aquire the same gear as good player B, no one will stay.
Its human nature to want to be recognised for your achievements and your merits. If you are the same as every other player then there is no reason to play.
^^^ my point exactly
Then clearly GW2 is not the game for you, but you have plenty of choices.
Next.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I think people have been about as clear as they can be that GW2 is not for people that like to level as quickly as possible to max so they can begin 8 months of loot grind in the same instances until you get a new patch or new expansion then you start all over again.
If people want a gear grind this is not the game for them, but you have plenty of other choices.
Funny thing is:
I see these people demand gear grind in every new MMO thats in development, and pretty much every MMO that had it after WoW failed miserably (latest example: SWTOR). The only game where gear grind worked is WoW.
And finally one AAA developer says NO to gear grind, and lot of people are thankful for it, because lets face it:
gear grind time has passed, and developers have to start thinking of what is actually fun and engaging about content itself, instead just sticking few uber pieces at the end.
It was good analogy to the games generally:
Lot of people play lot og games regularly without any rewards, just for the fun of it. Hell, i play table tennis every week without any rewards. I must be crazy or sumthing, never got +10 table tennis racket or table tennis shirt of uber criticals lol
People keep talking about pvp being fair. "This should be this way because it would be fair." I've got news, life isn't fair and video games aren't fair. People work for what they have which gives them an advantage. This is true IRL and in game. Hard work should give individuals advantages over those who go and buy the "blue light special" armor from droks. Just my .02 cents.
I think people have been about as clear as they can be that GW2 is not for people that like to level as quickly as possible to max so they can begin 8 months of loot grind in the same instances until you get a new patch or new expansion then you start all over again.
If people want a gear grind this is not the game for them, but you have plenty of other choices.
Funny thing is:
I see these people demand gear grind in every new MMO thats in development, and pretty much every MMO that had it after WoW failed miserably (latest example: SWTOR). The only game where gear grind worked is WoW.
And finally one AAA developer says NO to gear grind, and lot of people are thankful for it, because lets face it:
gear grind time has passed, and developers have to start thinking of what is actually fun and engaging about content itself, instead just sticking few uber pieces at the end.
It was good analogy to the games generally:
Lot of people play lot og games regularly without any rewards, just for the fun of it. Hell, i play table tennis every week without any rewards. I must be crazy or sumthing, never got +10 table tennis racket or table tennis shirt of uber criticals lol
People keep talking about pvp being fair. "This should be this way because it would be fair." I've got news, life isn't fair and video games aren't fair. People work for what they have which gives them an advantage. This is true IRL and in game. Hard work should give individuals advantages over those who go and buy the "blue light special" armor from droks. Just my .02 cents.
Exactly that is reflected in GW2: you will have to work very hard to be No. 1 team or No. 1 WvWvW server OR No. 1 dungeon grinder.
One of my major concerns with GW2 is the possibility that all lvl 80 items will have identical stats. I was an avid original Guild Wars player and one of my biggest complaints is the fact that I wasn't rewarded for spending hours and hours accumulating items to build high-end Fissure armor. Yes, the armor looked cool, but it had the exact same stats as (lvl 20) Droknars Forge armor. So here's the question. Will my dedication and time be worth the investment in end game dungeons offer better armor that has better stats than other level 80 armor or will it all be the same???!!!! I really hope I'm not going to spend all these hours in this game just to find out that its a socialist nation at level 80....
My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true! Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor
Is it true? please tell meeee its true!
People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.
My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true! Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor
Is it true? please tell meeee its true!
People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.
Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.
Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).
So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.
There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)
... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff. ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)
Not same stats but the same "item level" there won't be new gear released past 80 that has more stats then old gear ala wow.
This I'm glad for. I hated having to grind gear, finally get a set then new content/expansion have more that make mine I worked so hard for and spent countless hours for be obsolete. The gear grind was not fun. I'm going to do dungeons and stuff in GW2 for different looks but it's not like something I will be forced to do to feel like a second job like WoW did.
My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true! Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor
Is it true? please tell meeee its true!
People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.
Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.
Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).
So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.
There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)
... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff. ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)
Sounding like a good system so far though. My main concern is not having to deal with situations like T4 Warhammer where someone can get so stacked on stats they could mash their face on the keyboard and win a fight against someone lower in realm rank and gear. I was on both sides of it, don't like either side. Sure running people over instantly is fun for a laugh a time or two but it wears off quickly. On the other side being completely unable to compete is a universal turnoff to pretty much everyone afaik?
Some slight advantages like in Daoc with realm rank is fine, but the keyword is slight. Make the rewards more about status than min/maxing.
This is what I don't understand about GW2. Where is the hook - what keeps you playing? If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months? When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.
Think about how many people play online FPS games like CS, i played that game a good 8 hours a day for 3-4 years, you got nothing out of it but the joy of playing with friends. Its going to be the same with GW2
This is what I don't understand about GW2. Where is the hook - what keeps you playing? If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months? When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.
Think about how many people play online FPS games like CS, i played that game a good 8 hours a day for 3-4 years, you got nothing out of it but the joy of playing with friends. Its going to be the same with GW2
*win*
Same as it felt like in Global Agenda and a few others I've played. You play to have fun, not to get "better gear" than other people and then somehow think you are a "better person" because you have better gear and can win due to your gear.
GA not perfect as an example :P but close, when you hit level 30+ everyone is basically the same 30-50 and while there is better gear it is not substantial enough to cause a real big advantage.
Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.
Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).
So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.
There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)
... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff. ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)
Yes, but no amount of gear grinding will get you piece with 30% better stats. And thats the baseline of it.
And, AFAIK, in competitive part of PvP you are fully maxxed at lvl1, so its quite useless for that part of the game.
The only part where it might have slight impact is WvWvW, but i think many other things will be >>>>> important than you having +x power -x precision over the next guy.
People keep talking about pvp being fair. "This should be this way because it would be fair." I've got news, life isn't fair and video games aren't fair. People work for what they have which gives them an advantage. This is true IRL and in game. Hard work should give individuals advantages over those who go and buy the "blue light special" armor from droks. Just my .02 cents.
Sounds like you want your time to be worth more then someones money after all thats only fair, right?
No gear grind - #1 selling point for a true pvpr. Plus alts.... dont have to grind to get them competitve.
true pvpers are anti gear grind?
News to me...
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
So you both kinda agrees that GW2 ain´t for donkeys?
For NOW.. just wait till I unveil my bio-engeeniered donkey with oposable thumbs! Fear the donkey stalking YOU in WvW!
Remind me of RIFT's PvP gear system
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You chase the carrot on the stick. I prefer having the run of the entire farm. I may prefer corn on the cob one of these days while you're still chasing that carrot...
Oderint, dum metuant.
You must be one of those players who like played time > actual skill. If I was good at the game but I didnt get to play much how would it be fair if some guy playes 24/7 and gets the leet gear and destroys me because of leet stats?
No life gaming is so old. GW2 may not be for you, but a job application should be.
-I am here to perform logic
BOOM! head shot!
^^^ my point exactly
So you believe gear grinding is something that didn't happen before wow?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Then clearly GW2 is not the game for you, but you have plenty of choices.
Next.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Funny thing is:
I see these people demand gear grind in every new MMO thats in development, and pretty much every MMO that had it after WoW failed miserably (latest example: SWTOR). The only game where gear grind worked is WoW.
And finally one AAA developer says NO to gear grind, and lot of people are thankful for it, because lets face it:
gear grind time has passed, and developers have to start thinking of what is actually fun and engaging about content itself, instead just sticking few uber pieces at the end.
It was good analogy to the games generally:
Lot of people play lot og games regularly without any rewards, just for the fun of it. Hell, i play table tennis every week without any rewards. I must be crazy or sumthing, never got +10 table tennis racket or table tennis shirt of uber criticals lol
haha!
loved the part with tennis 
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
Exactly that is reflected in GW2: you will have to work very hard to be No. 1 team or No. 1 WvWvW server OR No. 1 dungeon grinder.
Its like they fullfilled your dreams!
My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true! Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor
Is it true? please tell meeee its true!
People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.
Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.
Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).
So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.
There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)
... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff. ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)
This I'm glad for. I hated having to grind gear, finally get a set then new content/expansion have more that make mine I worked so hard for and spent countless hours for be obsolete. The gear grind was not fun. I'm going to do dungeons and stuff in GW2 for different looks but it's not like something I will be forced to do to feel like a second job like WoW did.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Sounding like a good system so far though. My main concern is not having to deal with situations like T4 Warhammer where someone can get so stacked on stats they could mash their face on the keyboard and win a fight against someone lower in realm rank and gear. I was on both sides of it, don't like either side. Sure running people over instantly is fun for a laugh a time or two but it wears off quickly. On the other side being completely unable to compete is a universal turnoff to pretty much everyone afaik?
Some slight advantages like in Daoc with realm rank is fine, but the keyword is slight. Make the rewards more about status than min/maxing.
Think about how many people play online FPS games like CS, i played that game a good 8 hours a day for 3-4 years, you got nothing out of it but the joy of playing with friends. Its going to be the same with GW2
The stats won't be same but the power level will be.
I.E a quest item might have 20 precision and 20 power.
While dungeon drop might have 10 precision and 30 power.
Basically there's no gear grind and the changes are really minor.
*win*
Same as it felt like in Global Agenda and a few others I've played. You play to have fun, not to get "better gear" than other people and then somehow think you are a "better person" because you have better gear and can win due to your gear.
GA not perfect as an example :P but close, when you hit level 30+ everyone is basically the same 30-50 and while there is better gear it is not substantial enough to cause a real big advantage.
Yes, but no amount of gear grinding will get you piece with 30% better stats. And thats the baseline of it.
And, AFAIK, in competitive part of PvP you are fully maxxed at lvl1, so its quite useless for that part of the game.
The only part where it might have slight impact is WvWvW, but i think many other things will be >>>>> important than you having +x power -x precision over the next guy.
Sounds like you want your time to be worth more then someones money after all thats only fair, right?
true pvpers are anti gear grind?
News to me...
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
We all know that when people bring out the "true" ____ that they are full of it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"