Complex Dungeons?

Palladin · May 2012

When I talk about dungeons I always think about EQ which had the best duengeons I've ever seen in a game. EQ dungeons had alot going for them. Guk was a really godo EQ dungeon. I can't remember the number of times I got lost in that place and had to fight my way out and it often meant pvp since I was on a pvp server. That was some of the best fun I ever had in a game.

1) Large: Dungeons were impossible to explore in a single trip which gave you a good reason to return.

2) Complex: It was often easy to get lost and have to explroe your way out.

3) Visually apealing (for the time): Eye candy is always nice.

4) Multi lvl range: It was always fun to interact with other playes of higher lvl.

5) None instanced: I simply never liked instanced dungeons.

I've not seen any dungeons in GW2 yet and am wondering how intersting they might be. Linear(boring) dungeons are no fun.

pickleballs · May 2012

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/into-the-dungeons/

gotta love google

didnt personaly see any of them yet but it sure sounds interesting to me.

heartless · May 2012

Originally posted by Palladin
When I talk about dungeons I always think about EQ which had the best duengeons I've ever seen in a game. EQ dungeons had alot going for them.

1) Large: Dungeons were impossible to explore in a single trip which gave you a good reason to return.

2) Complex: It was often easy to get lost and have to explroe your way out.

3) Visually apealing (for the time): Eye candy is always nice.

4) Multi lvl range: It was always fun to interact with other playes of higher lvl.

5) None instanced: I simply never liked instanced dungeons.

I've not seen any dungeons in GW2 yet and am wondering how intersting they might be. Linear(boring) dungeons are no fun.

I didn't get a chance to try a dungeon yet, the first one requires level 30, but from what I understand each dungeon has 2 modes: storymode and exploration mode. Story mode is the first mode you'll do and it's basically tells the story of the dungeon. Exploration mode is just that, you and a group exploring a dungeon together. Each dungeon has multiple exploration paths. And you can only pick one to explore per run.

There are also mini dungeons which are non-instanced and are not restricted to a group.

Derpybird · May 2012

Originally posted by heartless
There are also mini dungeons which are non-instanced and are not restricted to a group.

I'm almost positive I found one of these guarded by an elite troll. I got past him but got my ass handed to me pretty quickly after that. I tried finding someone questing in the little corner I was to help in but didn't have any luck, but I am determined to grab a friend and find out what the heck was back in those tunnels when the next BWE rolls around.

OldManFunk · May 2012

The dungeons are going to be influenced by dynamic events... I wonder how far they can or will go with this. Diablo's dungeons were repeatable because they were randomly generated and different each time. GW2 clearly has the ability to do something similar. Having dungeons that are different each time you run them, not just different paths, would greatly increase their replayability.

Unfortunately dungeons start at 30 and there was so little time and so much else to do in the game that I didn't make it a priority and didn't get to experience the first dungeon.

UsulDaNeriak · May 2012

i would like to see such huge open world dungeons again like GuK or Old sebilis in EQ. but i never saw that again in a MMORPG. hust instanced stuff or smaller open world caves.

OldManFunk · May 2012

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

i would like to see such huge open world dungeons again like GuK or Old sebilis in EQ. but i never saw that again in a MMORPG. hust instanced stuff or smaller open world caves.

Guk was amazing way back when. It was truly terrifying to be down in that dungeon stuck on a bridge and see someone shout =T=R=A=I=N==T=O==Z=O=N=E= because of the resulting corpse run(s).

The smaller dungeon like caves did remind me a bit of the old non-instanced dungeons, and I agree, it would be nice to see something bigger like Guk in the game as well... maybe even with the occasional rare spawns and of course unique dynamic events.

I'm all for variety.

L0C0Man · May 2012

Originally posted by Palladin
When I talk about dungeons I always think about EQ which had the best duengeons I've ever seen in a game. EQ dungeons had alot going for them. Guk was a really godo EQ dungeon. I can't remember the number of times I got lost in that place and had to fight my way out and it often meant pvp since I was on a pvp server. That was some of the best fun I ever had in a game.

1) Large: Dungeons were impossible to explore in a single trip which gave you a good reason to return.

2) Complex: It was often easy to get lost and have to explroe your way out.

3) Visually apealing (for the time): Eye candy is always nice.

4) Multi lvl range: It was always fun to interact with other playes of higher lvl.

5) None instanced: I simply never liked instanced dungeons.

I've not seen any dungeons in GW2 yet and am wondering how intersting they might be. Linear(boring) dungeons are no fun.

As far as I know:

1) Nope. They aim for the dungeons to be completed in about 30 minutes in story mode, and between 40 to 1 hour and 30 mins for exploration (read: hard) mode. However, seems that there will be pieces to explore off the main road in dungeons with chests and things like that, and dynamic events that can change every time you visit. There's a gamespy article about the ascalon catacombs (first dungeon you find at level 30), they speak of a troll boss that sometimes might appear bursting trough a wall, or a spider mini boss that might show up if you kill too many spiderlings.

2) Probably not as well, partly because of the same reasons of 1. I'm of a mixed feelings about this, on one side I enjoyed dungeons like blackrock depths in vanilla WoW where you could take several different paths on it, and were usually too long to get down on one sitting (you usually made one run to get the key, then used the key to bypass that area and go from there and so on). On the other hand being an older gamer myself, married, with a job and a baby, and doing some extra college studies at night, I appreciate the posibility of doing shorter dungeons since my gaming time is more limited lately.

3) Haven't experienced dungeons myself, but so far all I've read and the videos I've seen points to yes.

4) It's not multilevel range, but people from all levels get to experience them. You can go as a level 80 with a group to a level 30 dungeons, and you'll be de-leveled (probably to level 35 or so) so you still find the dungeon challenging. You'll still have an advantage from a regular level 30, since you'll have better gear and more skills unlocked, but not enough that you could boost players trough the dungeon or solo it, you'll still need a full group.

5) Dungeons (like in almost every modern MMO out there) will be instanced, so a big no there. However, there are dynamic events, and some of them include very big boss fights that aren't instanced and that can take lots of players to take down.

Palladin · May 2012

The videos I watched of the dungeons are very linear. The only reason I might have for ever doing a dungeon will be for the gear other than that I'll not be doing any dungeons. I do not find walking down a single path to be intersting.

For a dungeon to be intersting it must be large and buiilt like a maze that one can get lost in. If there is only one path it's not a dungeon if you ask me.

I point to EQ dungeons again where they were varitable cities unto themselves. Now those were the days of great dungeon crawls.

DJJazzy · May 2012

We have only seen one dungeon so we really have absolutely no idea.

BigHatLogan · May 2012

Originally posted by Palladin
The videos I watched of the dungeons are very linear. The only reason I might have for ever doing a dungeon will be for the gear other than that I'll not be doing any dungeons. I do not find walking down a single path to be intersting.

For a dungeon to be intersting it must be large and buiilt like a maze that one can get lost in. If there is only one path it's not a dungeon if you ask me.

I point to EQ dungeons again where they were varitable cities unto themselves. Now those were the days of great dungeon crawls.

It's hard to get lost with a minimap stuck in your face. I agree that dungeons would be a lot more fun if there was no minimap and if they were built as a maze, such as old dungeon crawl games like Wizardry. That would be a true exploration mode. Games just don't seem to go for that kind of aspect anymore.

vesuvias · May 2012

I was about to point out all of the bad things about old EQ dungeons (Trains that could easily kill you through absolutly no fault of your own, camping spawn, not enough resources for everyone, etc). I have honestly perfered the instanced versions of dungeons of modern MMOs as compared to that of EQ. Mostly because of the fact that I didn't have to compete for resources with other players (that aspect just yanks me right out the immersiveness of the world far more than instancing does).

That said. GW2 has done things so much differently and built a fondation that so much more community based, that I really think a huge non-instanced version of a dungeon (zone) could really work and work well in GW2. Think about a huge chain of events built around the whole community pushing deeper and deeper into the zone, Climaxing into an epic boss fight (with plenty of mini-boss fights along the way). This would be something we just haven't seen before. I am talking the whole server VS the dungeon.

If they don't have something like this in one of later level zones, they really need to do this for an expansion pack.

Palladin · May 2012

Originally posted by vesuvias
I was about to point out all of the bad things about old EQ dungeons (Trains that could easily kill you through absolutly no fault of your own, camping spawn, not enough resources for everyone, etc). I have honestly perfered the instanced versions of dungeons of modern MMOs as compared to that of EQ. Mostly because of the fact that I didn't have to compete for resources with other players (that aspect just yanks me right out the immersiveness of the world far more than instancing does).

That said. GW2 has done things so much differently and built a fondation that so much more community based, that I really think a huge non-instanced version of a dungeon (zone) could really work and work well in GW2. Think about a huge chain of events built around the whole community pushing deeper and deeper into the zone, Climaxing into an epic boss fight (with plenty of mini-boss fights along the way). This would be something we just haven't seen before. I am talking the whole server VS the dungeon.

If they don't have something like this in one of later level zones, they really need to do this for an expansion pack.

Thats it people jump on my band wagon.

The GW2 world would support a dynamic event dungeon. I can see 20-30 people entering fighting their way in taking camps like in the PvP areas. defending these camps from mob attacks and the like. Groups of people would slipt off from the main camp to take other subsidiary objectives to allow a further push into the heart of the dungeon...how far is it noone knows. Did we bring enough people to take and hold the objectives along the way? Should we push deeper? With the dynamic event system in the game an open world dungeon much like the many caves already in the game could be changed into a dungeon.....actually I already consider those caves mini dungeons already.

The way players already work together during dynamic events means there would never bee any of the nagative affects we all exp in other dungeon crawls in games like EQ.

Roybe · May 2012

As someone pointed out the dungeons have 2 modes. The story mode is linear, moves your personal story along, and is required to play. Once you play the dungeon through story mode, you get to play in explorable mode. Is it complex? From what we know each dungeon will allow the group going in to vote on one of various scenarios to play through (the dungeon we know about has three choices, everyone votes on which choice they want to do and you go from there). After the choice is made you do the dungeon, within the dungeon there are supposed to be a number of random events that occur, not changing the overall outcome, just adding flavor to the experience. As for the complexity of the maps for each dungeon, I have not seen a whole map for one yet. Hope that helps.

Fangrim · May 2012

EQ2 also has big shared dungeons.Stormhold,Ruins of Varsoon,Runneyeye,Obelisk of Lost Souls,Temple of Cazic Thule,Clefts of Rujark,Permafrost,The Living Tombs,Silent City,Shimmering Citadel,Sanctum of Scaleborn,Palace of the Awakened,Chardok,Karnor's Castle,Sebilis,The Hole.

I am sure I missed lots out to but some of these zones are massive.

Palladin · May 2012

Originally posted by Roybe
As someone pointed out the dungeons have 2 modes. The story mode is linear, moves your personal story along, and is required to play. Once you play the dungeon through story mode, you get to play in explorable mode. Is it complex? From what we know each dungeon will allow the group going in to vote on one of various scenarios to play through (the dungeon we know about has three choices, everyone votes on which choice they want to do and you go from there). After the choice is made you do the dungeon, within the dungeon there are supposed to be a number of random events that occur, not changing the overall outcome, just adding flavor to the experience. As for the complexity of the maps for each dungeon, I have not seen a whole map for one yet. Hope that helps.

I have seen enough vids about the dungeons to know that there is nothing explorable about any dungeons as yet. All explorable allows is to pick 1 of several diff "paths" nothing to explore. Just one linear path from A to B to C to D ect...

I'd rather do dynamic events in the caves scatered around the open world.

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