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Guild Wars 2: Freedom of Choice in Tyria
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
During last weekend's closed beta event, we had all hands on deck for game play analysis of Guild Wars 2. In our latest feature, we give some of our thoughts about what we saw, what we experienced and more. Be sure to leave your thoughts in the comments.
The beta weekend has been over for a couple of days now, and I’m still feeling withdrawal. Now, I am not going to go and get all fangirl on you guys, but let me say that the game will not be everything to everyone. This is still not going to be a sandbox, there are no PvP servers, and you can’t loot players or compete with them for resources. That said the promises from ANet that they were looking to do something different were definitely not hot air.
Read more of Christina Gonzalez's Guild Wars 2: Freedom of Choice in Tyria.
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Comments
In the end it's still the usual quest-driven MMORPG with the only difference being that you pick up 1 quest and get 3 quests and you'll only have to complete 1 of these 3 quests.
It offers variety which increases the replayability of the game (i.e rolling alts) but does it give a "Freedom of Choice"? Well not really. Completing the areas (Hearts) in GW2 gives you a considerable XP boost which causes you to run from heart to heart and complete those given tasks. After you've completed the area you are pointed towards the Personal Story quest which gives major XP boost to hump you over to the next area.
This in no sense differs from WoW where you complete quests in a zone and then go to the next zone to complete its' quests. GW2 does camoflage this and give people the illusion of a different kind of questing system.
Was talking to this NPC when he suddenly got angry at something, turned into a bear and ran off.
*laughs* I completely forgot about things like this. I was on my human necro travelling the road to help complete a quest when I saw the guards fighting these pack of wolves that suddenly rushed them. I watched and one of them died but the wolves were defeated finally. Then the second npc suddenly turned and revived his fallen comrade. I was like 'Wow...now that's what I call a living and breathing world'
Have to admit I am missing the game already and that's generally not like me. It's been years since I had such a feeling and look forward to the next so I can work on nailing down my main so I can start focusing on where I want to go with the character.
I will admit to a little surprise when in WvW, I died on the walls, defending a keep. I was about to 'depart' back to the main camp when I got the message "A noble soul is healing you" I got back up, and had a castle guard to thank for my rez. It was kind of neat!
heart quests yes, DE's you have to explore to find, they trigger other events, are persistent and will happen whether you are there or not.
But about your quest driven illusion system... WIll you agree it's better?
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Hearts are designed to lead you through area and expose you to DEs along the way. I think some people just ignored the DEs when they triggered nearby because they were on their way to the next step/heart in their "quest chain".
You can take the player out of WoW, but you can't take the WoW out of the player.
So how albight would u make a ROLE PLAYING GAME that doens'thave some type of quest?
Why are haters so narrowsighted that apparently any game that has a quest is the same... in a genere that is defined by quests. This actually defeats your point ot begin with (which is to diss the game) because, what your'e saying is every game, in the genre or MMORPG) is the same.
What do you expect, to cut the game on and a football match begins? Or maybe Kratos to fall down from the sky and begin to
You may want to try and do some exploring next BWE. By the sounds of it you missed A LOT of content that they have hidden around the world. The closest thing to straight forward quests this game has are the hearts. And they are there to guide people who are looking for straight forward quests. The game isn't built around them, they are an additional feature to guide new players. Theres dynamic & meta events that trigger randomly, as well as quests you basically have to find, and aren't given to you by a spotter or a heart NPC. I know in the norn starting area I found a few of these, and I didn't even do much PvE. There's a hidden cave with a jumping puzzle, and a reward at the end. There's also a hidden cave in the charr zones which sometimes has a girl that needs to be rescued. These events aren't always there either.
There's also quests you can get that are aren't always available, which don't even give you any real info. There was one in the norn area which was basically 'my husband went off to hunt bears in a cave up north. He sure has been gone a while, I hope he's alright'. That's it, that's all you get. However, if you dare to look, you can find the cave, many others like it, each w/ their own stuff going on.
Really, there are quite a few differences in this game, when it comes to PvE, and it's mind boggling when people legitimately don't see this:
1) The game primarily revolves around & rewards exploration. Not only are there bonus' for map completion, but there's tons of hidden secrets around the world. There's a few videos on youtube of some of the things people have found, but I know a lot of people just flat out didn't look. They assumed the quest hubs were all this game had to offer.
2) You aren't forced to lvl in any one specific fashion. You can only do hearts, you can explore, you can solo epic mobs, you can craft, you can pvp, you can do your personal story, you can gather, you can grind mobs. That's an awful lot of choice. I can't think of any other games in the genre that offer that much choice when it comes to lvling. The closest would maybe be Eve. Furthermore, you have a lot of freedom when it comes to equipment, skills, traits, appearance...If people are feeling this game doesn't offer enough options, I would love to know what game they are playing in which they feel offers more.
- Again, and I think this is a key point quite a few people are missing. Just because you are pointed at something in GW2, doesn't mean it's necessary. Most of those things are there as guides, and you by no means have to follow them. I know personally I try and get out of the starter zones asap, so I'm constantly fighting enemies that are 4-6 lvls above me. Last BWE I did most of my lvling in WvW, and exploring. The beta before that I did mostly random events, and before that I did it w/ hearts. If you feel you don't have any choices, I'm wondering if you just aren't really looking.
sorry bud as a post wow player (for 5 yrs +) Its safe to finally say this aint no wow clone!-thank goodness!
I think what wow try todo with phasing and failed other features (holy trinity)- guild has achived. and keeping it far from beign a kiddie game.and not restricting you to a cookie cutter mold-as wow is now struggling to shuffle.
so, i dotn forsee GW2 beign compared to wow anytime soon unless its for trollin...
It's all about feel.
WoW - move from quest hub to quest hub, pick up quests, go out and do them, go back to hub, get new quests, go to next hub, rinse repeat.
WAR - exact same as WoW, but you could also find PQ's to farm until you maxed out your Influence.
RIFT - exact same as WoW, but you'd sometimes also find Rifts (PQ's) and sometimes the mobs would come to you (invasions) and you'd have to put your quest hub hopping on hold for a few minutes.
TOR - exact same as WoW, but with cutscenes and VO work.
GW2 - The Hearts really do just "feel" like guide lines, not destinations on a GPS. When a DE pops up it "feels" like an adventure because you know more often than not there will be a chain of events to follow.
But the best part is you NEVER have to run back and forth to and from a "quest giver."
The only exception is when the Heart / DE has you gathering contributions to reach a goal, but the gathering point and turn in are always really close by.
Actually, the BEST part is that you don't have to talk to any NPC or player to start these Hearts or DE's, and you don't have to join a group or click a button to join a group (public grouping) in order to participate and play with the people around you.
You aren't fighting for mob spawns, ever, you aren't hurting anyone by lending a hand...
It just feels completely different, even if on paper they really are kill/collect "quests."
And actually, for people comparing to WAR's PQ's, I think the Heart quests in GW2 are far more like the PQ's in WAR than the DE's are.
So it's like WAR's PQ's are the Heart quests and Rift's Rifts are the DE's, but since you don't also have the static quest hub grind it really feels so much different due to the flow and the fact it all feels completely optional and you never really get pointed to a specific GPS destination.
GW2 did provide me with something I haven't done in a long time. The actual wanting to explore visually the world around me. It just went hand in hand for me, I immediately jumped in game got the basic understanding of the heart quest and just went out and wandered.
I found myself here and there, each one more pleasing to the eye than the last. I spent many hours just roaming. No direction and where ever I ended up finding myself. There was something to see and /or do. I'm pleased with the way the enviroment feels in Tyria.
I can definately see some the patience and passion put into many of the visuals around the world. Quite wonderful..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I bet you probably could safely play it as you described, but you'd be shooting yourself in the foot, don't need to, and why would you want to?
The organic flow was one of the key selling points for us. We skipped most heart quests, if any were completed it was a byproduct of finishing DEs in an area, and despite trying out all the classes, still each had a character in the 20s by the end of the BWE. That's proof enough that you can just follow your nose ('Oooh, what's in that cave/over that hill/in that fort?') and have an adventure at every step of the way, one that advances your character as well.
If your experience played out like a traditional task grind, then that's simply because that's how you tried to force it to play. You don't need to do that and you're missing out on a ton by doing so. Unlearn the task grind mentality and try again.
We didn't map out a route or carefully plan on going from one heart to the next, yet we ended up experiencing multiple events (at various stages) as well as, discovering cool puzzles, mini bosses and rewards.
Next time try not to glue yourself to one basic form of advancement, I'm sure you'll appreciate what you experience.
You don't feel compelled to do a single quest in EverQuest. You can level even more effectively by just killing shit. Why can't modern MMOs give us both? I'm sick and tired of mobs being nothing more than filler and road blocks to exploration as they give virtually no XP in comparison to the quests that are related to them. I want the option to get good XP from the kill as well as the quest, so I don't feel compelled to do one over the other or at the very least it makes doing both more enjoyable and rewarding.
I cannot disagree more. The traditional quest based MMO has nothing to do with having quests themselves but rather its about the nature of the quests. Almost all rpg's computer or paper use quests. The mold that GW2 was breaking out of is the kill 10 mobs quest that has you run into a field and simply kill 10 mobs.
If you played a Norn over the weekend you would see that in the first area by the wolf shrine there is an event where a destroyed tower has lots of goblin like creatures rushing to repair it and you have to protect it from them. In every other MMO i've ever played this would simply be a timer and you have to not die for 10 minutes and its your own quest that other people outside your group cant help with. In GW2 there was a tower health bar and bar that represented the number of goblins remaining who were committed to the fight. This means anybody can run in at any time and experience a real battle not a staged timer with fixed waves coming.
This is no way a desparaging of WoW. WoW was one of the greatest games of all time. But we are 7 years out now. Its time for something new cause the cool end game stuff just no longer out weighs the grind. I only hope that players can be given variety by TSW being as good now that Terra has shown its just another WoW with a twist.
Actualy I would say most modern MMO's give you shit for quest XP and the best way to level is to grind like crazy. E.G. Atlantica Online, Aion, Terra, even WoW. Grind mobs is so painful that it seems slower but if you time it, it is generaly by far the fastest way to level. You CAN level in GW2 by simply killing shit its just that you do by going into a cave and killing shit and every few minutes a DE starts and you keep just killing shit and get an xp boost. Now if you want to stand in a field and kill pigs all day, Yes this is not a game for you (have you tried WoW you might like it more).
That is what he meant when he said it will not be all things to all people, If what you want is the mold GW2 is trying to break out of then don't play GW2.
Actually, its different in exactly the way it said it would be. ArenaNet did not say it wanted to make a non-MMO or a non-RPG game. It did not say it intended to do away with quests, which is nothing more than getting a bit of story and doing some things to get rewarded for it. What ArenaNet desired to change is (a) how that story is presented and unfolds (b) how the things you get rewarded for get done.
The story is presented to you by simply showing up in an area. There are some fixed location areas you can wander to which are pointed out on the map, and there are some areas not pointed to on the map that you can discover. Then there are dynamic events aside from this. You do not interact with an NPC, have them instruct you to perform one linear task and return to them, and then go out to find an "x" on the map where that linear task can be performed. That alone makes it different than most of the major MMOs of the last decade.
You kind of dismiss the fact that the mechanism for "questing" in this game is to give you multiple pathways to completion, of which you need only choose one, but you can also engage in some of each. That's pretty awesome, and not something I found in WOW, AION, RIFT, COH, AOC or EQ/EQ2. That's not because those games suck. It's because those games are many years old. They represent the best effort of the time.
And while doing this, DE can and do occur in the surrounding area, which give more opportunity for interaction with story for reward. This is a pretty great system. It's still a "quest" system. But it feels like an advancement on what had become a very stagnant MMO formula.
Honestly I'm finding a lot of these "yawn nothing new" type posts to really sound a lot like butt-hurt people who are - for whatever reasons - not particularly interested in GW2 and still very much enjoying their MMO of choice. I say, good for you! I'm happy that you are happy. This doesn't need to be a defensive thing. GW2 DOES offer a lot that feels very different from the MMO formula of the last decade. That does not mean its better than your game. But let's not waste time trying to hyper-rationalize how its the same. It isn't.
I do agree with the poster who gives RIFT a nod about pioneering Dynamic events. Although RIFT did not really pioneer them. Warhammer and its public quest system did. It did not do it well, but it was a good idea that needed work. RIFTs system was a better idea that still needed work. GW2's implementation is an even better idea that may still need some work.
This is blasphemy against the god of MMOs! No seriously im starting a new religion the Guildwarstwoians and we will purge all the non believers.
A heart is hardly a quest hub for one. And I never bothered doing heart quests that I didn't feel like doing. The dynamic events had way better rewards. I ran around and looked for dynamic events to do because it was more exciting. You can play the game how you want to play it. There are multiple dynamic events in each zone, btw. Did you even play the game?
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I think you accidently half of the game.
I really dislike people who always throw WoW out for their arguments then tell people that it's the game that might fit you best. The sheer arrogance and downright ignorance of such a statement makes me wonder about the people that populate this genre. You haven't a clue about what motivates me in MMOs, let alone which one fits me best, thank you very much. I'm not trying to break any mold, let alone the GW2 mold which still resembles very much the current MMO paradigms, only with a different approach, but the same paradigms none the less. Having more than one pathway to progression is a good thing.
Today's games keep trying to pidgeon hole people into questing or raiding or "dynamic events" in order to level or gain loot, instead of offering more viable alternatives alongside the typical ones. That was my argument about mobs giving better than the crap XP they give in GW2. Sure you can level off them and about as fast as watching paint dry. ANet puts all of the real XP in the completion of the events, personal story events and heart quests, not in the aspects like crafting, gathering, exploring or hunting, let alone them being as viable a leveling alternative as dynamic events and PvP.
Writer here.
One of the things I found, but didn't mention in the article, was that there are underwater siege tunnels in the WvW zone. Once people really have time with PvP, there are so many potential strategies, even underwater invasion!
www.christinagonzalez.net
Sapping tunnels need to become a staple as well, it was historically more feasible than toting around huge siege engines over long distances and certainly easier to implement than having to build engines on the spot. Engineering tools to dig the tunnels and explosive runs by the enemy to stop or even destroy your progress if you don't have enough support.
Coming from someone who clearly didn't play the game.
The hearts do not give you enough EXP to level you to keep up with your storyline, the hearts open up some karma vendors and give a nudge of exp, but it is in no way adequate enough to compensate for a lack of a quest system. They do create some more noticeable goals on the map, however, but this is intentional; that was added at the request of players during earlier betas who felt like they didn't know where they should go. As recent MMO trends would tell you, yes, those people exist. Those hearts are in essence a compromise, but the majority of your progress still comes from events and storyline, both of which are interchangeable considering I made it to level 30 just fine within a weekend, and personal quest ends at level 19 for the beta.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I do not believe you played the game? If you had you would have known that what you posted was incorrect.
I had an enjoyable 30 hours playing, reaching level 22 with a Norn ranger. I did not talk to scouts to have them direct me to areas where there may be tasks to complete ( hearts); I did not follow my personal story beyond the single task requested of me in the beginners area.
What I did was walk around helping out, exploring and learning to fight. By the time I came up against the end beta Moa I was able to stand my ground with 5 others ( though not for long ).
I believe, sir, that you are a Troll.