GW2 doesn't have raids in the traditional WoW and the like sense, as in, dungeon-like instanced content requiring two or more groups to complete, all instanced content in GW2 are 5 men dungeon (8 at release, each with 1 story mode and 3 different paths for explorable more). It does have open world meta events, like Tequatl the fights against Sunless and The Shatterer, that are meant to scale from 10 to 100 people, if it works as they intend to.
Ok well, like i said, you can call it what you want. I never played WoW, so i don't define things by WoW terms. In MMOs that came before and after WoW, encounters that required more than one group were called "Raids" regardless of whether they were instanced, outdoor, scaled, static or whatever. But anyhow, I understand what you're talking about.
Words and meaning change. Current form of raid is large groups going into an instance. anything that requires a large group outside an instance is called a world boss, or event. Its not counted as a raid.
Not to go off topic or anything, but you're incorrect there. I spent a large chunk of this morning reading up on GW2 and multiple beta reviews mentioned encounters where you have 25 or 40 people fighting them. Perhaps GW2 has a different name for that, but in MMORPG's in general, that's called a raid. (Raid = PvE encounter requiring more than one group of players to defeat.)
Anyhow, point being that if you have an encounter that can be fought by 40 players, you need to design the encounter to be challenging when being fought by 40 players. Call it whatever you want.
And you know.. sorry to disappoint you or whatever, but i've no idea why it's a bad thing for an MMO to have content for massive numbers of players.
For example, TSW doesn't have raids. Maximum group content is for 5 players. I find that pretty lame tbh and hope they add some bigger encounters in the future.
TSW will have 10 man raids.
ooh, they will?!? on launch? can you link to info on this?
I could have sworn a read an article that specifically had a DEV explain that they're limiting content to 5-people max, so that they could design more complex encounters. 10 is still pretty small, but still, better than 5!
There's a long discussion on the forums about it. It was announced way back and can't remember whether it was a podcast or some interview. They'll be doing 10-man raids but those are not going to be out on launch.
Sorry there seems to be a misconception. every class has a self heal, all classes have aoe heals that do very very little healing. Its up to the player to keep them selves alive. Other classes can help, some more than others, but no class can directly save the other. Nore can a player just do damage, they will fail. They have to do all three, all at the same time.
The way i read that is that there is no collaboration or synergy between what each player/class does, but that its 'to each his own, but in a group' ... sounds alot like 5 people doing their own thing and not as team work at all - Which kind of fits with what i experience in the beta sessions i was in.
Words and meaning change. Current form of raid is large groups going into an instance. anything that requires a large group outside an instance is called a world boss, or event. Its not counted as a raid.
guess it depends what games you're playing, all the games i play call multi-group content "raids" regardless of whether they are instanced or open-world. even if something is called a "World boss" or "Event", the word "raid" is usually used to differentiate between this world boss or event requiring one group or more than one group (i.e. "putting together a group for world boss" vs. "putting together a raid for world boss")
this is off-topic, but for example:
10 years ago ...in AO, several groups going into an instance = "raid". scalable open world events based on how many people are online = "raid", super tough mob out in the world that required 100 people = "raid"
8 years ago.. EQ2, several groups going into an instance = "raid", super tough mob in the world = "raid"
today.. EQ2, dynamic event involving 50 people out in the open world = "raid", super tough mob in the open world = "Raid"
today.. TOR, multiple groups in instance = "raid", super tough mob out in the open world = "world boss", how you kill a world boss = "raid"
today.. Rift, mutiple groups in instance = "raid", rift or zone event involving multiple groups = "raid"
WoW = i have no idea. apparently "raid".
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Sorry there seems to be a misconception. every class has a self heal, all classes have aoe heals that do very very little healing. Its up to the player to keep them selves alive. Other classes can help, some more than others, but no class can directly save the other. Nore can a player just do damage, they will fail. They have to do all three, all at the same time.
The way i read that is that there is no collaboration or synergy between what each player/class does, but that its 'to each his own, but in a group' ... sounds alot like 5 people doing their own thing and not as team work at all - Which kind of fits with what i experience in the beta sessions i was in.
No that's not correct. There is tons of synergy and collaboration between the classes. My self and my guild are already talking about what class we want to play and how we should build them so that we can get the most out of each build. Abilites do work off of each other, your just not relying on other people's abilites, not that it can't make it easier. Its way more team work than WOW's tank and spank, or most of the instance were who the dps is does not effect combat, who the tank is does not effect the combat or who the healer is does not effect the combat. Most trinity systems has almost no true interaction between the players or classes.
Back on topic. From what others have said. It sounds like TSW will have a combat system that is much more fluid, with each player able to bring a peace of the whole but what that is can change each batter. Sounds like fun. I have always like playing support, but hated being a healer and playing reverse wackamole, loved wow in classic were i would play a druid and just jump from role to role in a single fight depending on what was needed.
My self and my guild are already talking about what class we want to play and how we should build them so that we can get the most out of each build.
This is interesting, since the point of getting rid of the trinity is to get rid of this exact behaviour.
p.s. Just to be clear - i am in no way criticizing, you, your guild or any actions thereof. My point is in reference to the idea of getting rid of the trinity and its consequences - of which your actions are only an example.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
My self and my guild are already talking about what class we want to play and how we should build them so that we can get the most out of each build.
This is interesting, since the point of getting rid of the trinity is to get rid of this exact behaviour.
p.s. Just to be clear - i am in no way criticizing, you, your guild or any actions thereof. My point is in reference to the idea of getting rid of the trinity and its consequences - of which your actions are only an example.
Sorry but no, that was not the point. The point was that you don't need a class to fill a role. Not that you can't work as a group to max out how you play togeather.
I don't think i was clear. We are not picking the class on how they work together. We have already picked the classes we like to play. We than work together on how each of us likes to play, and than work around how we should build the spec's. Just for example, you could build off of each other if all of you go with BLEED effects that way everyone skills will do more damage. Its really no different than building a team for sPVP.
My self and my guild are already talking about what class we want to play and how we should build them so that we can get the most out of each build.
This is interesting, since the point of getting rid of the trinity is to get rid of this exact behaviour.
p.s. Just to be clear - i am in no way criticizing, you, your guild or any actions thereof. My point is in reference to the idea of getting rid of the trinity and its consequences - of which your actions are only an example.
Im not speaking for everyone, but min-maxing and powergaming will not go away ever.
The removal of the trinity is mostly to remove forced classes and forced grouping in the sense that people -need- a healer or tank to even start about thinking to do a dungeon/raid.
The removal of the trinity is supposed to break player-class interdependancy which leads to forced grouping.
It was never intended to break powerplayer-behaviour or minmaxing, this will always happen as long as you have choice in creating a build.
I do not believe for a second, even in TSW, that there won't be some builds that do better than others (in certain situations) for example, and people will minmax the hell out of their characters, there is no perfect ballance, and there shouldn't be.
My self and my guild are already talking about what class we want to play and how we should build them so that we can get the most out of each build.
This is interesting, since the point of getting rid of the trinity is to get rid of this exact behaviour.
p.s. Just to be clear - i am in no way criticizing, you, your guild or any actions thereof. My point is in reference to the idea of getting rid of the trinity and its consequences - of which your actions are only an example.
Im not speaking for everyone, but min-maxing and powergaming will not go away ever.
The removal of the trinity is mostly to remove forced classes and forced grouping in the sense that people -need- a healer or tank to even start about thinking to do a dungeon/raid.
The removal of the trinity is supposed to break player-class interdependancy which leads to forced grouping.
It was never intended to break powerplayer-behaviour or minmaxing, this will always happen as long as you have choice in creating a build.
I do not believe for a second, even in TSW, that there won't be some builds that do better than others (in certain situations) for example, and people will minmax the hell out of their characters, there is no perfect ballance, and there shouldn't be.
Then again TSW will have strict counter-builds.
You have a FOTM shotgun build with blast damage? Well enjoy my pistol build with blast resist!
You enjoy stacking crit with hammers? Well enjoy my evading chaos magic build!
TSW will have A LOT of min/maxing and A LOT of counter min/maxing. If one build starts to make ground in PvP, you can be guranteed to get countered o/
Even PvE will require plenty of different builds just because the bosses might have resists against certain damage types and require certain types of CC.
TSW will be fun exactly because everyone has the same toolkit. Those who take the advantage of this
Words and meaning change. Current form of raid is large groups going into an instance. anything that requires a large group outside an instance is called a world boss, or event. Its not counted as a raid.
guess it depends what games you're playing, all the games i play call multi-group content "raids" regardless of whether they are instanced or open-world. even if something is called a "World boss" or "Event", the word "raid" is usually used to differentiate between this world boss or event requiring one group or more than one group (i.e. "putting together a group for world boss" vs. "putting together a raid for world boss")
this is off-topic, but for example:
10 years ago ...in AO, several groups going into an instance = "raid". scalable open world events based on how many people are online = "raid", super tough mob out in the world that required 100 people = "raid"
8 years ago.. EQ2, several groups going into an instance = "raid", super tough mob in the world = "raid"
today.. EQ2, dynamic event involving 50 people out in the open world = "raid", super tough mob in the open world = "Raid"
today.. TOR, multiple groups in instance = "raid", super tough mob out in the open world = "world boss", how you kill a world boss = "raid"
today.. Rift, mutiple groups in instance = "raid", rift or zone event involving multiple groups = "raid"
WoW = i have no idea. apparently "raid".
Well, what TheYear1500isn't really true. All your "raid" examples are also called "raid" in WoW.
It seems to me that some people mix up "what they are doing"-terms (instance, world boss, event) with "how they are doing it"-terms (solo, group, raid).
Words and meaning change. Current form of raid is large groups going into an instance. anything that requires a large group outside an instance is called a world boss, or event. Its not counted as a raid.
guess it depends what games you're playing, all the games i play call multi-group content "raids" regardless of whether they are instanced or open-world. even if something is called a "World boss" or "Event", the word "raid" is usually used to differentiate between this world boss or event requiring one group or more than one group (i.e. "putting together a group for world boss" vs. "putting together a raid for world boss")
this is off-topic, but for example:
10 years ago ...in AO, several groups going into an instance = "raid". scalable open world events based on how many people are online = "raid", super tough mob out in the world that required 100 people = "raid"
8 years ago.. EQ2, several groups going into an instance = "raid", super tough mob in the world = "raid"
today.. EQ2, dynamic event involving 50 people out in the open world = "raid", super tough mob in the open world = "Raid"
today.. TOR, multiple groups in instance = "raid", super tough mob out in the open world = "world boss", how you kill a world boss = "raid"
today.. Rift, mutiple groups in instance = "raid", rift or zone event involving multiple groups = "raid"
WoW = i have no idea. apparently "raid".
Well, what TheYear1500isn't really true. All your "raid" examples are also called "raid" in WoW.
It seems to me that some people mix up "what they are doing"-terms (instance, world boss, event) with "how they are doing it"-terms (solo, group, raid).
I was mistaken. I was thinking "raiding" vs "raid" . GW2 will not have "raiding" although it really does not even have "raids" as you can't group more than 5 poeple in a single group. and most large player events no one is grouped.
Comments
Words and meaning change. Current form of raid is large groups going into an instance. anything that requires a large group outside an instance is called a world boss, or event. Its not counted as a raid.
There's a long discussion on the forums about it. It was announced way back and can't remember whether it was a podcast or some interview. They'll be doing 10-man raids but those are not going to be out on launch.
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=26644&highlight=raid
The way i read that is that there is no collaboration or synergy between what each player/class does, but that its 'to each his own, but in a group' ... sounds alot like 5 people doing their own thing and not as team work at all - Which kind of fits with what i experience in the beta sessions i was in.
guess it depends what games you're playing, all the games i play call multi-group content "raids" regardless of whether they are instanced or open-world. even if something is called a "World boss" or "Event", the word "raid" is usually used to differentiate between this world boss or event requiring one group or more than one group (i.e. "putting together a group for world boss" vs. "putting together a raid for world boss")
this is off-topic, but for example:
10 years ago ...in AO, several groups going into an instance = "raid". scalable open world events based on how many people are online = "raid", super tough mob out in the world that required 100 people = "raid"
8 years ago.. EQ2, several groups going into an instance = "raid", super tough mob in the world = "raid"
today.. EQ2, dynamic event involving 50 people out in the open world = "raid", super tough mob in the open world = "Raid"
today.. TOR, multiple groups in instance = "raid", super tough mob out in the open world = "world boss", how you kill a world boss = "raid"
today.. Rift, mutiple groups in instance = "raid", rift or zone event involving multiple groups = "raid"
WoW = i have no idea. apparently "raid".
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
No that's not correct. There is tons of synergy and collaboration between the classes. My self and my guild are already talking about what class we want to play and how we should build them so that we can get the most out of each build. Abilites do work off of each other, your just not relying on other people's abilites, not that it can't make it easier. Its way more team work than WOW's tank and spank, or most of the instance were who the dps is does not effect combat, who the tank is does not effect the combat or who the healer is does not effect the combat. Most trinity systems has almost no true interaction between the players or classes.
Back on topic. From what others have said. It sounds like TSW will have a combat system that is much more fluid, with each player able to bring a peace of the whole but what that is can change each batter. Sounds like fun. I have always like playing support, but hated being a healer and playing reverse wackamole, loved wow in classic were i would play a druid and just jump from role to role in a single fight depending on what was needed.
This is interesting, since the point of getting rid of the trinity is to get rid of this exact behaviour.
p.s. Just to be clear - i am in no way criticizing, you, your guild or any actions thereof. My point is in reference to the idea of getting rid of the trinity and its consequences - of which your actions are only an example.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Sorry but no, that was not the point. The point was that you don't need a class to fill a role. Not that you can't work as a group to max out how you play togeather.
I don't think i was clear. We are not picking the class on how they work together. We have already picked the classes we like to play. We than work together on how each of us likes to play, and than work around how we should build the spec's. Just for example, you could build off of each other if all of you go with BLEED effects that way everyone skills will do more damage. Its really no different than building a team for sPVP.
Wanting your hand held again?
Im not speaking for everyone, but min-maxing and powergaming will not go away ever.
The removal of the trinity is mostly to remove forced classes and forced grouping in the sense that people -need- a healer or tank to even start about thinking to do a dungeon/raid.
The removal of the trinity is supposed to break player-class interdependancy which leads to forced grouping.
It was never intended to break powerplayer-behaviour or minmaxing, this will always happen as long as you have choice in creating a build.
I do not believe for a second, even in TSW, that there won't be some builds that do better than others (in certain situations) for example, and people will minmax the hell out of their characters, there is no perfect ballance, and there shouldn't be.
Then again TSW will have strict counter-builds.
You have a FOTM shotgun build with blast damage? Well enjoy my pistol build with blast resist!
You enjoy stacking crit with hammers? Well enjoy my evading chaos magic build!
TSW will have A LOT of min/maxing and A LOT of counter min/maxing. If one build starts to make ground in PvP, you can be guranteed to get countered o/
Even PvE will require plenty of different builds just because the bosses might have resists against certain damage types and require certain types of CC.
TSW will be fun exactly because everyone has the same toolkit. Those who take the advantage of this
will succeed.
Well, what TheYear1500isn't really true. All your "raid" examples are also called "raid" in WoW.
It seems to me that some people mix up "what they are doing"-terms (instance, world boss, event) with "how they are doing it"-terms (solo, group, raid).
I was mistaken. I was thinking "raiding" vs "raid" . GW2 will not have "raiding" although it really does not even have "raids" as you can't group more than 5 poeple in a single group. and most large player events no one is grouped.
"Is this game like WoW, and is it popular to hate it yet?"