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For those of you who played GW2
orator1970
Member UncommonPosts: 112
in Guild Wars 2
Hi all,
I was thinking of creating a Guardian for my first character and after having done a bit of research i decided that i was gonna build a condition removal spec character as i found a lot of sinergy with such a build. Now from what i understand having read a few articles on the web i know that a a condition removal build would be very useful in a PVP setting im just not sure though this is the case in a PVE setting. Maybe anyone that actually played the game would have better understanding on this. Do enemy NPC's make enough use of conditions to justify such a build or is it mainly players that relies on this?
i know that i posted this later on in the thread but to make it easier for people to understand what i was going for here is the link again to the build i was thinking of using:
Comments
The skills you have equipped are what make up your characters build, so yes, you can have many different combinations of builds. Just like GW1.
I will also be playing a Guardian.
You are getting ahead of yourself here. First try out the guardian to see if you like it, though odds are you will, and then level up to be able to make those kinds of builds. Early levels don't really throw too many conditions at you but you can bet that there are some areas where enemies use lots of conditions. Having condition removal utility is nearly always useful. Making a purely condition removal build will probably not work out the way you want it to, and making builds before you actually play the game is fairly pointless, as you will often realize that what you were going to do isn't the way you really want to play or too limited in what it can fight effectively or less effective than other slightly different things that you could make.
Long story short. Play game, then make builds.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Thank you guys for the replies,
I believe that you can switch builds depending on the situation/style of play but i would still like to know is such a build would be viable in a pve setting or should i go for something else
Sorry missed you reply thanks for your answer
Conditions can get pretty nasty, yes.
For PvE, I would build a bit more balanced, though. Don't stack everything into condition removal. Maybe make that your focus, but also throw in some offense (for soloing) or boons for group play.
Glad you are considering this, because most players atm almost completely ignore the conditions / boons system in the game. It makes a HUGE difference in a fight, and it's very important to manage both.
By the way if anyone is interested the build i was going for was something similar to this post:
http://www.clanmilk.com/blog/2012/04/23/guild-wars-2-theorycraft-spotlight-guardian/
To be honest with you, I rarely got conditions that lasted more than 3 seconds. As a buffer/debuffer build, I felt like the most useless piece of crap on the playing field. I suppose the same would be also true for a condition removal build. The only good builds in that game are dps and more dps. Ranged dps is even better because of the higher survival rate.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
While a more rounded build would serve you better in PVE (you really don't get lots of conditions put on you in the early game anyway), the good news is that tweaking in pvp is free and can be done as often as you like outside of combat. In PVE, you can also swap utility out of combat and even respec your traits for a fee every so often, so start with what you think works and make changes as you go.
Having looked again at the build it is obvious it is mainly a PVP one based on outlast your opponent but i did like how it all seem to work together im sure there arew equally good builds for a more PVE focused gameplay
Not an unexpected reaction from someone who only has played a few days of the game. My only lay experience is from the BWE as well, but at least I understand that we have only just barely scratched the surface of what the game offers during that limited exposure. I was learning new things and adjusting my game over the course of the entire weekend.
To assume that the highest DPS builds are always the best builds seems short sighted.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Yep, everyone get a pure DPS build, and then start whining about how OP conditions and Crowd controlls are.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The reason that i actually wanted to play a condition removal build was that i thought this game was different than most and it was heavily reliant on a condition/boon style of gameplay but like i said i have not play the so i can be easily miss informed
I wouldn't listen to advice like this. Not that your advise, mr Neobahamut20, is any worse than anyone elses but its pretty clear you have some bias there against some pretty viable builds.
For one the game is not tuned to its final state. Even so though conditions are pretty nasty if you know what your doing. I know this because I know other people that have owned the battlefield with a buffer/debuffer build. I think it would have been more truthful if you had said 'The only good builds FOR ME in that game..." and then continued to state them.
I know its not true for the whole game because I've seen otherwise already in the very first beta event. Ranged Dps, by the way, sucks.
You backpeddle slower than you run forward by about half. In PvP once people figure out that you just have to run directly at ranged classes rather then flail around wildly it becomes very easy to trap and destroy ranged. Ranged classes that know what they are doing can snare and keep distance. Then again melee characters that know what they're doing can dodge snars and use their own ranged cripples and snares to close distance. Its really dependent on skill here.
In PvE you only have a high survival rate as a ranged DPS if you have melee to keep everything away from you. If you are on your own you need some fancy footwork. Also take into account that all ranged attacks do about a 1/3 of melee attack damage.
In the end I'd try out what best suits your playstyle. Guardians have plenty of builds but the one you mentioned sounds nice.
There is a running joke that ranged DPS is for people who are too afraid to do anything useful. This generally comes from the idea that ranged DPS just likes to sit behind all of the melee characters who are "actually contributing" and fire arrows to feel like they are part of the battle too. Ranged DPS generally is safer in that you can keep away from heavy hitters better. Then again you are also barely contributing to your group and its pretty hard to stay at ranged versus a lot of mobs by yourself.
My auto attack did more damage then a rangers skill. This is for balance reasons. I'm taking more risk being in the thick of things. The ranger is just standing in safety zone firing off mosquito damage.
Not to say rangers aren't completely viable (they are) but just be aware of these things. Distance is hard to keep in some situations unless you are good with your skills, you don't contribute as much in group situations as other classes (then again other people rarely have to worry about a good ranger dying).
Also be aware that ranged ONLY is not viable at all. Not only does it not do enough damage but in PvP it is starting to lack as more people become comfortable with dealing with rangers. Again, that mainly has to do with not flailing around but charging rangers and dodging snares. You catch up to them in no time. So even as a ranged character you will need some melee unless your really good at keeping distance for long periods of time to finally kill stuff.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
This may be quite true at lower levels, but certain builds when you are able to throw around trait points will make conditions hit harder and last longer. I'm thinking specifically of mesmers that spec into Domination/Illusion or Curses Necromancers. When you consider the multiplicative effects of conditions, I think having someone run with a support build can make WvW and those explorer mode dungeons more manageable.
This is interesting to look at in terms of malice in class builds:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malice
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
It is. Conditions in this game are extremely powerful. None of them are useless. A character that is focusing on even one condition can be very effective much less all. I saw an elementalist who focused on blind attacks. Devestating. Truly.
If you want to focus on conditions it is extremely viable. It will take a different type of playstyle though. Know when to use your conditions and control the battle.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
Well if you're part of a team, you want to feel like you can help. By lvl 15, I did not have that feeling as a buffer, in PvE.
AoE arent really AoE since they are limit to a max of 5 targets. The buffs dont seem to have any significant effect in battle. The debuffs are roughly the same applied by all dps classes (and some do it iwth the autoattack), so its pointless to build around that. Sure its beta, and that is exactly what they were testing. We have to wait till the next BWE to see if they fixed it or if its like that by design.
Next BWE ill be testing the ele healing and a guardian to see if healing aids the team. However, seeing the "I keep getting 1shot" threads in the last BWE, I doubt that the limited heals will have any effect.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Do bosses in DE (at least the one you have experienced in the BWE) rely on conditions?
I played as a guardian last beta and my best advice is don't expect to build a "condition removal" guardian, and only play a condition removal guardian. Chances are you'll have several rolls you can fill and adaptng to the situation is the best idea.
When I was in mass PvP during sieges, condition removal was great for bursting in and getting back out. Because one ability the guardians have while equipping a staff, pulls all the debuffs your allies have to you, then gives you powerful buffs based on what you pull off of your allies. So running into the center of a mass battle and activating this ablities, cleanses your allies and turns you into a juggernaut for a few seconds. But it was viable consistantly, so I also had a mace and sheild as my secondary weapon set and would spam aoe shield buffs into the fray, and knockback enmies when I could.
When I was roaming with a group of 3 or 4, My role was mostly CC, slowing the enemies as they tried to flee, knocking back persuers as we tried to flee, or buffing allies with shields during fights and trying to keep the enemy still with snares.
If you expect to do condition removal, and only condition removal it's not really viable 24/7 in PvP or PvE. But if it's what you enjoy, be prepared to fill the roll when the opportunity arises but not being willing to fill other roles when they are needed will gimp you and your allies.
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Live a life less ordinary.
I think that had more to do with people needing to play this game in a manner that they were not accustomed to. Most folks aren't used to getting taken out by a level 2 mob in the starter area if they don't dodge. Warriors don't think twice when charging into a hail of arrows in some games. People thinking that their class is "only" melee and treating it as such sometimes had trouble as well.
I applaud you for thinking about the team and how members of that team need to work together, that's how the game was designed.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Thank you for your advice my aim was to go for a high survivability build that could in theory outlast your opponent while applying boons to you and your allies but like you said this game is all about versatility and experimenting around and i cannot wait to finally play it
true, one reason i want to play this game so badly is that it is designed in a way where you want to support and aid your fellow players instead that just out-dps them and i find it a very refreshing and constructive approach
Classes I tried (each were lvl 8 at least) : Engy, theif, warrior (highst was lvl 15 - only one I pvp with), necro, ele.
My post was obviously if the game stays as is and far more PvE oriented as it was mentioned by OP that he was unsure about PvE.. In PvP warrior the buffer (especially with the speed buff and retarded stun lock) was viable. But not as good as 2h sword + bulls charge (lol).
No one should back peddle, you should be able to backwards run and strafe, like in all other games. I had no real problems doing it, especially with knockback skills.
PVE wise:
There are many, many bugs, here are few of the important ones I reported (I dont report useless ones, because companies tend to focus on the useless ones first for some reason)
As ele (fire) or engi, the running in a strafing circle worked just fine in PvE. Yes I reported as a bug. Another invicibility bug I found was that if you are underwater, and move above melee mobs while weilding a spear, you cannot be hit and you just wait there until the kill is complete.
As a warrior though, you shouldnt be getting 2shot or 1shot... you are most useless to a team dead. I seriously took less damage on a necro than a warrior. However, the warrior did kill much faster, I just dont feel like much of a warrior in heavy armor when I get 2shot.
Also, a necro with +5 vitality had more HP than a guardian with +25 vitality. So either theres a bug with how vitality is counted or guardians should just not even have the vitality attribute. (next BWE im testing ele + guardian for healing and I will build the guardian with toughness, to see how it goes.)
Overflow servers broke up parties. This should be the top priority fix, although a work around was to go in town and spam click a tele point until it let you in the main server.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Well, as a warrior, it was quite discouraging. At least I could rez, but past lvl 8 rezzing doesnt cut it. I play with my gf, so we strategize a lot too, this game isnt really prone to encourage that, during battle, its more planning than strategy. Sometimes we call pushbacks or shields, but thats about all we can do. So hopefully they add someting to make it more engaging with your teammates during battle rather than taking turns to kite.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
I prefer taking turns kiting and being pressured to standing around thinking about maximizing my dps/threat. Just sick of tank and spank strategies vs nobody is safe. As a warrior did you try to tank or be a part of a team?
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
I fought rangers who tried to use knockbacks as well, dodge them. They all have windups. Needless to say I found no problem closing distance at all. I don't know where your skill level is in comparison to the average though. Necromancers are not squishy classes in this game btw. They have a ton of health.
In general its wise to throw out any judgements you may have about a class. Necromancers are extremely vitality based.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home