Why PvP sucks

Rattrap · August 2005

Sorry PvP fans in MMORPG's but PvP in your games just sucks.

It was not long ago, playing Guild Wars when it downed on me.
Sure it is fun, and exciting. But what is it : I stand here you stand there - and we smash buttons trying to bring opponents hp down as fast as possible. Rather primitive if you ask me.

And than it downed on me. It is the goal that we lack.

Heck even FPS have some kind of goal in multiplayer ... Like protect the base , etc.

MMORPG can have far better goals for pvp. There could be whole missions only one group can complete.
So killing would be just ONE of many options in PvP.

I think EVE is the game that came closest to this. Still I think future mmorpgs should strive to bring some life in PvP...this being just one idea

scaramoosh · August 2005

I find PVP fun in mmorpgs, it usually has no point to it tho like WOW and it's kinda depessing! Normally just hitting the same buttons and jumping up and down though.

Eve online has the best PVP though it requires skill and it means something! Hopefully a bigger bounty on your head and corp wars Plus it's very unforgiving!

Anyways i only play WOW on test server now, so it's all for fun

I'd like to see a Planetside 2, hopefully they wont make the Planet into a galaxy again and introduce mechs and some poorly designed caverns.

SilverGR · August 2005

Well, PvP in DAoC and WoW revolves around a war, though in the latter it is not exactly openly declared. Raids are organised from time to time and the opposing side defends. Also PvP in WoW's Battlegrounds is based on a Capture the Flag game (Warsong Gulch) and a large scale battle resembling Warcraft III gameplay from a single unit's perspective (Alterac Valley). The next Battleground to open will feature a variation of a Domination game (with control points).

DAoC on the other hand features large sieges, a favourite aspect of many players. So there are MMORPGs with focused PvP as you can see.

Rattrap · August 2005

Capture the flag , siege ,domination mode - All of them FPS inventions.

As I said , if FPS have deeper PvP design than mmorpg's - than it is primitive.

Toziel · August 2005

Sure PVE is nice if the content is right BUT it is against CPUS.YOu die come back with more men and a new tactic an smash the boss mob.
PVP is fight against humans who are individuals and their actions are not predictable.

stone-seraph · August 2005

Originally posted by Rattrap
Sure it is fun, and exciting.

if this isnt why you are playing a game, why are you?

Kelberoth · August 2005

IMO, its not PvP that sucks.
Its arena PvP.

That is EXACTLY what u were saying, and guess what, Eve don't have this piece of shit.
When PvP becomes a OPTION in a game (like old days of UO and now Tibia) then its GREAT
But when its forced (arena pvp, like BG in WoW and GW) or its just restricted (non-pvp games/servers) then it becomes totally gay.

Plus, PvP is not fun withou losses/rewards
It makes it stupid, thus having PvP or not is just dumb, its like dueling when you don't want to.
EVE scores again, GW and WoW doesnt have that. I've played Eve for some days (couldnt learn it ok, but now I regret I stopped playing), played GW for a couple months and got 2 chars in WoW to lvel 40... I can say that UO and EvE are the shit for me.

Now I'm playing a shitty game called Tibia (www.tibia.com), it has PKing, looting, all stuff.. but its very badly designed and the community kinda sucks (60% polonish players, 30% Brazilian (I'm BR) and the rest from other places like US and germany)

You don't have much freedom, ppl "own" some parts, the higher levels act like bitches... but oh well, I can handle it eh ::::28::

PS: If anyone show up in tibia, I'm on Askara, my char name is Kelberoth.

IcoGames · August 2005

Castle seiges in L2, protecting bases in SWG, and Eve bounties are examples of PvP having meaning. Agreed that most games like WoW have little meaning to their PvP systems, but I still like the excitement you get when you enter contested territory.

Kelberoth · August 2005

Originally posted by IcoGames
Castle seiges in L2, protecting bases in SWG, and Eve bounties are examples of PvP having meaning. Agreed that most games like WoW have little meaning to their PvP systems, but I still like the excitement you get when you enter contested territory.

Problem is, I get no excitement at all when I enter a contested territory. I get pissed in areas like Hillsbrad and Desolace, as I play a horde character, there are packs of high level alliance players killing the lowbies.

Thats not open PvP, thats bullshit. I just die and say "shit".
But in a PvP game like UO, when I was running from a group of APK (anti-pkers) my heart pumped, because I would lose my stuff but I wasnt RESTRICTED to go anywhere (except inside the guarded towns, but thats ok seeing I had the same stuff on the pk towns)

You have to go somewhere, but that place is filled with players 30 levels higher than you waiting to gank you. I just hate how WoW was designed, IMO it tried to take a bit of each MMO and make a good one, but it become a nice mess. You are restricted to fight, you are restricted to a class, you are restricted to a faction.

restriction + pvp = shit

deggilator · August 2005

PvP is more challenging, as you do not fight an NPC opponent that is pre-programmed to fight in a certain way. When you play an MMORPG for some time, you get to learn the various types of NPCs, all their abilities and strategies and you know exactly how to handle them, thus eliminating any challenge.

In PvP, however, you see a variety of strategies among opponents, thus it's more challenging and entertaining.

The only actual problem with PvP is the annoying minority that does not view a game as an entertaining activity, but instead as a competition that grants the illusion of some form of superiority that derives from winning the opponent. The same goes for sports, of course, as any other form of competition. Instead of seeking entertainment, they only care about victory and belittling the opponent.

Kelberoth · August 2005

Originally posted by deggilator

The only actual problem with PvP is the annoying minority that does not view a game as an entertaining activity, but instead as a competition that grants the illusion of some form of superiority that derives from winning the opponent. The same goes for sports, of course, as any other form of competition. Instead of seeking entertainment, they only care about victory and belittling the opponent.

Hmm in my opinion thats not the classic PvPer, but the player who prefers not to pvp.
Why? Because in a open PvP game, even tho you can go on killing, you won't be the "ultimate ownagez0r".

example... In UO, after lots of killings you could become a dread lord. But once u die, u would lose that rank. Exciting huh?

Now, in WoW for instance, all you do is raid raid raid raid so you can get all the leet items no one has and show off. Then you can go on and kill some people, just to show off what a badass you are. But there is a competition to get the highest PvP rank, and the best items.

When you aren't playing a game like this, losing is affordable, making it much better.
I don't want to do a 6 hours instance so I can get leet stuff. Or even worse, greedy players that pick what they don't need just to have it. Thats a timesink, not dying and losing a iron platemail.

IcoGames · August 2005

I totaly understand Kelberoth. Did you check out a Normal server in WoW? I have a few friends that didn't like the ganking they experienced on Azgalor, so they moved to Draenor instead where they had more control over their PvP status.

I love the people who show off their l337 purple items. It makes beating them with my graptacilar green items the more satisfying. ^_^

I enjoy playing WoW fine enough, but having some type of dynamic world in a future release would be welcomed. I think it would be cool at least to see some type of severe faction penalty if your side's king/boss/whatever was killed, for example Tharg.

deggilator · August 2005

Originally posted by Kelberoth

Hmm in my opinion thats not the classic PvPer, but the player who prefers not to pvp.
Why? Because in a open PvP game, even tho you can go on killing, you won't be the "ultimate ownagez0r".

While you do encounter such phenomena on PvE enviroments, they do not have the same intense feeling of competition as PvP. And what I described is not the classic PvPer, I specifically stated that they're an annoying minority that drives people away from PvP enviroments. The ones who gank lowbies or tend to insult their opponents, especially calling them n00bs.

Dekron · August 2005

Originally posted by Rattrap
Sorry PvP fans in MMORPG's but PvP in your games just sucks.It was not long ago, playing Guild Wars when it downed on me.
Sure it is fun, and exciting. But what is it : I stand here you stand there - and we smash buttons trying to bring opponents hp down as fast as possible. Rather primitive if you ask me.

And what's the difference then when you are fighting an npc mob?

deggilator · August 2005

Originally posted by Rattrap
Sorry PvP fans in MMORPG's but PvP in your games just sucks.It was not long ago, playing Guild Wars when it downed on me.
Sure it is fun, and exciting. But what is it : I stand here you stand there - and we smash buttons trying to bring opponents hp down as fast as possible. Rather primitive if you ask me.

There are games with better PvP than that. EVE Online is the best example where strategy is required in combat and is fairly irrelevant to equipment. What matters is knowing how to use the ship's equipment properly.

My short experience in WoW's PvP has been fun as well, mainly because of battle grounds. I can only go to Warsong Gulch, but it's fun cause if you want to win, you have to play organised and make sure everyone actually listens to orders. And it certainly isn't just standing there, you're on the run the whole time.

Dark Age of Camelot I haven't played, but it offers mass scale Realm vs Realm PvP, which should be good as well.

Rattrap · August 2005

Again , If this is all PvP has to offer in MMORPG's

Than throw your copy of guild wars, wow dark daoc. And go play Battlefield , call of duty or any other FPS

They have exactly the same mods. In fact they invented them !? Skill realy mathers there - you dont need to play 2305 hours to get your equipmend, only so you can PvP (and possibly beat someone that played only 2215 hours). And in Call Of Duty you even gain ranks by killing , making you more powerfull.

And yes the gameplay is much more exciting and interesting....

So what is so good about PvP in MMORPGS?

I tell you

1. You need almost no skill at all to PvP - all you need is time , more time invested in the game.
(who have lot of time on their hands - Teenagers with no life)

2. You can use you ultra powerful Avatar to completely RAPE abuse and destroy some other player
that didnt manage to invest the same ammount of time in the game like you - And
THEREFORE is completely defenceless against you. (and who wants to exercise their frustrations
against other (defensless) people. Teenarges with no life! )

So my point is. As long as PvP in MMORPGS is finely crafted to be a steem outlet for frustrated teenagers. As long it is only giving impression you ACTUALLY need skills to do it INSTEAD look UP<<
It is going to be primitive. And it is going to carter to the lowliest of lowest...

Not my cup of tea.

Give me something where skill and tactics count, like this its no fun - for a balanced person ::::40::

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