Someone reposted the "I told you so" post on the official swtor.com forums, where the OP predicted all the problems with 1.2 and was banned for trying to provide solutions.
He quoted his own posts from PTS forums while testing the patch, warning Bioware about the problems with the patch (all his posts were ignored), after which he provided the solutions (which were also ignored).
Of course the repost was deleted shortly after, and whoever posted it was probably banned.
Posted by Redmarx
It seems petty perhaps to point this out now, but all the problems and the massive amount of complaints about 1.2 were predictable.
Let me rephrase that: they were predicted. By me. And others.
All my posts quoted below are 2-4 weeks old, mostly on PVP and PTS forums arguing against the 1.2 changes.
As a marauder, I can honestly say: bad idea, we are going to be insanely overpowered.
Sorcs and merc healers: reroll.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3744851]After 1.2, people will be begging for pre-1.2 game balance.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3651944]They need to add a debuff and votekick function.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3819069]No PVP testing was done on PTS. None.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Warzones should award a good amount of credits, don't force PVPers to grind PVE dailies for cash, we hate that sort of thing[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3593600]What is the point of having Q&A sessions at all if you're going to avoid ALL the most pressing concerns of the players.
Rather than giving straight answers, you instead choose to answer fluff questions asked on a whim by a couple of people on the forum rather than the hundreds of posts on the same major issues:
- Why has the healing paradigm been so drastically changed so suddenly, and is causing healing frustration really a good idea given that healers are the core of every operation / warzone?
- What are the PVP design decisions (specifically, what roles in rated warzones do you believe make sense) behind the sweeping nerfs to some classes that are in dire need of help (operative) and a complete lack of attention to the strongest classes (tank assassins in dps gear)?
- Why does it appear to the playerbase that you do balance changes purely based on who cries foul on forums the most? Is that actually how you do them? Isn't it awful that we even have to ask?
- What kind of improvements are you making to the PTS to allow more widespread testing, rather than just testing by a small group of guilds who might give insufficient / incorrect data?
- Why are server issues not being addressed more proactively in order to avoid eventual implosions due to straggling activity?
etc etc.
If all you wanted was easy questions, the answers to which no one cares about, you could just invent the questions yourselves and answer why the lightsaber is green (hint: it's because of the crystal).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Melee destroys ranged in this game. The only cases where ranged can dominate is against disorganised pugs full of bad players.
In skilled PVP, melee is dominant, by far.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]Well clearly Bioware has no clue.
1.2 is going to be a disaster if this is how they are balancing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3492212]Pretty much.
Both sorcs and mercs got hit hard with a healing nerfbat, with no real thought or coherent plan behind it.
Ilum was a fiasco, Bioware was not prepared, we get that, mass world PVP is a notoriously hard thing to get right. Feel free to ask your Warhammer devs why they failed, but for pity's sake don't invite them to give their opinions on class balance changes.
The 1.2 patch class balance changes are ill-devised and frankly amateurish.
And this is coming from a marauder, who will be godmode in 1.2.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3206025]Well done for outing yourself on forums as a bad player.
Only the absolute worst, most clueless pug dps monkeys think healers need nerfing.
Interrupts are huge due to their extremely short cds. Throw a PT and a marauder on a healer. There is nothing that healer can do, they will die very quickly unless peeled and guarded/taunted like a maniac.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3506923]I often look at other marauders and facepalm.
No, having a few more buttons to deal damage does not make marauder hard to play. Every class is easy, it's muscle memory and practice; but clearly there are a lot of clickers around.
As for class balance, marauder was already the strongest PVP class by far.
Buffing us is going to result in balance problems down the road which will threaten to get the class gutted like what they did to dps operatives, sorcs and mercs in 1.2
Rather not have that happen, tyvm.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]The devs have no clue what they are doing. Their testers are a bunch of inexperienced PVE clickers who have never played in a proper PVP premade.
GZ thinks teams of operatives are stunlocking people and making them unsub, and that somehow hybrid sorcs and tracermercs are stronger than marauders or tank assassins.
That's the level of chaos and cluelessness that is going on.
It's no wonder 1.2, which should have been a great jesus-patch with lots of new content, is being destroyed by a horrible class balance debacle.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]So you basically interrupt yourself if you're a keybinder and pressing your next instant ability while your current one is going off?
That's... ridiculous. It will make the game unplayable for anyone who isn't a clicker.
I wonder if the design team are all clickers.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3650792]To answer the original question:
Bad players think that sorcs, dps mercs, and dps operatives are overpowered.
Bioware listens to bad players, see 1.2 patch notes.
Hope that was simple and clear enough.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Ilum was a PVP fiasco.
The devs didn't listen to the simple advice of limiting the number of people of one faction to 50% of the total max players in 1 instance of Ilum. It would have been a simple fix, but no, they did not listen.
While the PVE changes and additional content in 1.2 are excellent, the patch is looking like another PVP fiasco, with incredibly poor balance tuning that appears to have been done based on the QQ of terrible players, and no real thought to proper PVP progression.
Developers need to start listening to the experienced, intelligent players more; and listening to the clueless pug randoms less. It would lead to much more judicious changes than what we routinely see in MMOs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3555211]Marauder/Sentinel can break assists better than any other class in the game. That is exactly why we are so strong in group PVP and dominate warzones.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3555211]The fight actually looks very simple and not difficult.
The difficulty is artificially boosted by having healers who can't heal.
I guess this is their new "design" - make the game boring yet frustrating.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3492212]NPC in starting area, click on it to recieve enough xp to ding to 50.
Remove costs of items on fleet vendors.
Problem solved.
PTS working properly and enabling players to test all content and submit feedback to make a better 1.2 patch.
Does this honestly sound too complicated?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3454552]We melee are already stronger than ranged in PVP... and you want to buff melee?
Yup, pretty much all true, they have been warned for months, and when 1,2 patch notes were made public lot of people scratched their heads and asked themselves why do they want to ruin their own game.
Now, if threads werent closed ba the speed of light, every second thread would be complaint about something in above post.
PTS is a joke, PvP was thorougly untested, thats reason why rated WZs were scrapped but lot of stuff that made sense only for rated WZs was left ingame (even "preseason" sign) so PvP is one big mess.
Not to talk about whole Ilum situation.
Sigh, such promising game, and so little delivered, and what little was delivered ruined, by themselves, in patches.
Wonder whats going on in BW, i think they are more confused atm than their customers (which are very confused about direction of SWTOR) lol
It's funny, looking back at this, the trend towards closing threads and overall censorship of any criticism on the swtor.com forums has become even worse.
I guess this is what happens when a bad moderation team has no supervision and treats the forums like their own fanboy club.
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever.eather way though i plan on checking it out,but i guess i probably could say i probably wouldnt even bother with gw2 if the pvp in swtor was actually good and not tacked on garbage
This was posted by the original poster redmarx on darthhater.com (a SWTOR fansite run by Curse) and was also deleted (guess darthhater got an email from EA):
wowmarx wrote:
I only posted it once, and didn't repost it anywhere. I didn't even add to it, I simply let others discuss the thread, which they did, and the discussion was fantastic, cooperative and constructive.
Dozens - really, dozens - of people said it was the "post of the year" and "the best PVP post" and "Bioware should hire this person", etc.
It had hundreds of posts agreeing with it. I wanted to thank people at some point in the thread, and reply to my PMs etc, but I was banned before I could.
The entire thread was quietly deleted. I can't even reply to all the PMs I got thanking me for writing the post and saying that they agreed.
They even deleted my forum signature, when I click on that feature it says "Sorry, you are not permitted to have a signature."
This seems like rather special treatment.
Someone posted about the deletions of both the original post and the re-posts others did of the original post - and that thread got closed, no doubt it will be deleted shortly also:
ErthAnjil Joined: Dec 2011 Mods Banning players | Today , 04:37 AM
Is there anything we can do about the mods abusing their power permanently banning anyone for posting redmarx post? I think it's getting out of hand with them trying to silence us for a post of constructive criticism that a majority of the players agreed with.
Vaipyr's Avatar Vaipyr Joined: Jan 2012 Today , 04:40 AM
Quote: Originally Posted by ErthAnjil Is there anything we can do about the mods abusing their power permanently banning anyone for posting redmarx post? I think it's getting out of hand with them trying to silence us for a post of constructive criticism that a majority of the players agreed with. The same 12 or so people spamming it over and over =/= majority. Also the bans were well justified.
ekaikaforge's Avatar ekaikaforge Joined: Jun 2011 Today , 04:41 AM
What is wrong with a thread of ideas to fix PvP?
Can a yellow name please explain why that discussion violates the forum rules? There are a hundred other idea threads out there.
Ardim's Avatar Ardim Joined: Sep 2009 Today , 04:42 AM
Quote: Originally Posted by ekaikaforge What is wrong with a thread of ideas to fix PvP?
Can a yellow name please explain why that discussion violates the forum rules? There are a hundred other idea threads out there. This. Honestly
The Alabaster Legacy Server: Canderous Ordo Isaac: Sith Marauder Skradin: Mercenary Washington: Operative
Arzhanin's Avatar Arzhanin Joined: Jul 2010 Today , 04:53 AM
Hello folks,
While we understand you can get frustrated at moderation actions taken which you do not agree with, please note that discussion of specific moderation actions is not allowed on the forum. This includes discussion regarding content that was part of a post that was moderated.
If you have a concern about moderation or specific moderation action taken by us, you may feel free to e-mail communitysupport@swtor.com, so that we can receive your concerns directly.
We'll be closing this thread now. Thanks for your understanding.
When I see a company acting like this I immediately concael my sub/stop buying any expansions and stop playing. Its an instant boycott from me on all their products.
And this is coming from someone who is still posting on these boards after getting a temp ban two days ago. One that was unfair in my opinion as I wasn't flamaing I was simply being ironic. But that's fine sometimes it hard for the mods to see irony or sarcsam in a written medium.
But what is going on in the SWTOR forums is sickening.
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
Someone reposted the "I told you so" post on the official swtor.com forums, where the OP predicted all the problems with 1.2 and was banned for trying to provide solutions.
He quoted his own posts from PTS forums while testing the patch, warning Bioware about the problems with the patch (all his posts were ignored), after which he provided the solutions (which were also ignored).
Of course the repost was deleted shortly after, and whoever posted it was probably banned.
Posted by Redmarx
It seems petty perhaps to point this out now, but all the problems and the massive amount of complaints about 1.2 were predictable.
Let me rephrase that: they were predicted. By me. And others.
All my posts quoted below are 2-4 weeks old, mostly on PVP and PTS forums arguing against the 1.2 changes.
As a marauder, I can honestly say: bad idea, we are going to be insanely overpowered.
Sorcs and merc healers: reroll.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3744851]After 1.2, people will be begging for pre-1.2 game balance.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3651944]They need to add a debuff and votekick function.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3819069]No PVP testing was done on PTS. None.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Warzones should award a good amount of credits, don't force PVPers to grind PVE dailies for cash, we hate that sort of thing[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3593600]What is the point of having Q&A sessions at all if you're going to avoid ALL the most pressing concerns of the players.
Rather than giving straight answers, you instead choose to answer fluff questions asked on a whim by a couple of people on the forum rather than the hundreds of posts on the same major issues:
- Why has the healing paradigm been so drastically changed so suddenly, and is causing healing frustration really a good idea given that healers are the core of every operation / warzone?
- What are the PVP design decisions (specifically, what roles in rated warzones do you believe make sense) behind the sweeping nerfs to some classes that are in dire need of help (operative) and a complete lack of attention to the strongest classes (tank assassins in dps gear)?
- Why does it appear to the playerbase that you do balance changes purely based on who cries foul on forums the most? Is that actually how you do them? Isn't it awful that we even have to ask?
- What kind of improvements are you making to the PTS to allow more widespread testing, rather than just testing by a small group of guilds who might give insufficient / incorrect data?
- Why are server issues not being addressed more proactively in order to avoid eventual implosions due to straggling activity?
etc etc.
If all you wanted was easy questions, the answers to which no one cares about, you could just invent the questions yourselves and answer why the lightsaber is green (hint: it's because of the crystal).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Melee destroys ranged in this game. The only cases where ranged can dominate is against disorganised pugs full of bad players.
In skilled PVP, melee is dominant, by far.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]Well clearly Bioware has no clue.
1.2 is going to be a disaster if this is how they are balancing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3492212]Pretty much.
Both sorcs and mercs got hit hard with a healing nerfbat, with no real thought or coherent plan behind it.
Ilum was a fiasco, Bioware was not prepared, we get that, mass world PVP is a notoriously hard thing to get right. Feel free to ask your Warhammer devs why they failed, but for pity's sake don't invite them to give their opinions on class balance changes.
The 1.2 patch class balance changes are ill-devised and frankly amateurish.
And this is coming from a marauder, who will be godmode in 1.2.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3206025]Well done for outing yourself on forums as a bad player.
Only the absolute worst, most clueless pug dps monkeys think healers need nerfing.
Interrupts are huge due to their extremely short cds. Throw a PT and a marauder on a healer. There is nothing that healer can do, they will die very quickly unless peeled and guarded/taunted like a maniac.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3506923]I often look at other marauders and facepalm.
No, having a few more buttons to deal damage does not make marauder hard to play. Every class is easy, it's muscle memory and practice; but clearly there are a lot of clickers around.
As for class balance, marauder was already the strongest PVP class by far.
Buffing us is going to result in balance problems down the road which will threaten to get the class gutted like what they did to dps operatives, sorcs and mercs in 1.2
Rather not have that happen, tyvm.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]The devs have no clue what they are doing. Their testers are a bunch of inexperienced PVE clickers who have never played in a proper PVP premade.
GZ thinks teams of operatives are stunlocking people and making them unsub, and that somehow hybrid sorcs and tracermercs are stronger than marauders or tank assassins.
That's the level of chaos and cluelessness that is going on.
It's no wonder 1.2, which should have been a great jesus-patch with lots of new content, is being destroyed by a horrible class balance debacle.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]So you basically interrupt yourself if you're a keybinder and pressing your next instant ability while your current one is going off?
That's... ridiculous. It will make the game unplayable for anyone who isn't a clicker.
I wonder if the design team are all clickers.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3650792]To answer the original question:
Bad players think that sorcs, dps mercs, and dps operatives are overpowered.
Bioware listens to bad players, see 1.2 patch notes.
Hope that was simple and clear enough.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Ilum was a PVP fiasco.
The devs didn't listen to the simple advice of limiting the number of people of one faction to 50% of the total max players in 1 instance of Ilum. It would have been a simple fix, but no, they did not listen.
While the PVE changes and additional content in 1.2 are excellent, the patch is looking like another PVP fiasco, with incredibly poor balance tuning that appears to have been done based on the QQ of terrible players, and no real thought to proper PVP progression.
Developers need to start listening to the experienced, intelligent players more; and listening to the clueless pug randoms less. It would lead to much more judicious changes than what we routinely see in MMOs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3555211]Marauder/Sentinel can break assists better than any other class in the game. That is exactly why we are so strong in group PVP and dominate warzones.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3555211]The fight actually looks very simple and not difficult.
The difficulty is artificially boosted by having healers who can't heal.
I guess this is their new "design" - make the game boring yet frustrating.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3492212]NPC in starting area, click on it to recieve enough xp to ding to 50.
Remove costs of items on fleet vendors.
Problem solved.
PTS working properly and enabling players to test all content and submit feedback to make a better 1.2 patch.
Does this honestly sound too complicated?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3454552]We melee are already stronger than ranged in PVP... and you want to buff melee?
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3333122]Healing is fine. HOTs and instant casts are quite weak.
Oh you're complaining about the casted heals? Why are you letting healers cast?
Oh because you're awful at PVP, pugging solo expecting to beat guarded healers without an assist and without calling interrupts.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3769779]Nothing left to do but watch it all crumble.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3820523]I feel like it's 2 days left till NGE hits and I have nothing to wear.[/QUOTE]
Wow I wasn't really reading up on what they did but after reading that I started having acid flash backs of WAR and its horrible magnet stuff and the radical changes they made. It also reminded me of the champions online release day patch that radically changed gameplay.
I have thought since before release that this game was probably not made by Bioware but rather that EA rebranded the Mythic devs as Bioware and Bioware only did guidance on the personal story aspects and some overall management oversight.
Giving the insane swing and lack of prepared well though out design I am starting to turn that into a certainty. It was the same problem in WAR, they basically never even tried to mature their design. They had an ok starting point and then just winged it. Really immature method of doing things. It was the main reason I left the game. I knew they could never do better. I was sure they could come up with all kinds of changes but they would never have a mature design they seemed to lack any ability to deliberate or refine their ideas.
The WAR campaign was so close to being pretty good, but even that they couldn't change to make sense. And the problems it had at release were so obvious. They clearly never even tried to refine it or they were completely blinded by arrogance.
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
If GW2 doesn't have quadruple the concurrent players at prime time of SWTOR in about a year I will be really surprised. And that is being really conservative, I really think it will be 10 times. Not subs but people actually playing it since we can't use subs for GW2.
In written mediums, what you say is often less important than how you say it.
Every time you see a poster having a meltdown like that "take on the mods, mano-a-mano by god!", you get an example; his original message, lost to his delivery.
I'd agree with that.
I'd also say I'm not sure what bringing the discussion here is supposed to accomplish. If the community over there *points at TOR* is really that upset... you know how you send a mesaage? You all cancel your accounts and see how much the mods love their forums with no income.
Its really pointless to complain about how a company runs a game.. which you don't have to play.. while you keep funding their ability to act the way they do.
Its like these forums .. likely the largest complaint is what the MMO market has turned into. Yet we keep buying the games (I'm very guilty of this too). The only messages companies understand are... +$ and -$.... -$ sends the best message when you are unhappy.
*edit* I'd also say this works best when nobody actually posts they are going to cancel. They simply cancel and leave.
What if you don't want to damage the game and actually want the game to succeed? Unsubbing doesn't help that.
Redmarx did also have a post "I told you so" attached to the post in the OP.
In it, he quoted his old posts from the PTS forum from several weeks before 1.2 came out, in which he accurately predicted all the problems with 1.2 and what the complaints would be.
It showed he had a good grasp of the problems and warned Bioware on the test server.
Yes, he did. And he's widely respected within the community, such as it is. And yet, he's banned/deleted/ignored by the devs. It's reached almost laughable levels there. The two servers I play on, Corellian Run and Wall of Light, used to be in the top 10 for population. Last night, during peak times.... 20-40 people in fleet.
I campaigned long and hard and defended the game. I truly thought they had something special. It's debatable whether they did or not, but what's certain NOW is, they're killing it. Two weeks after that great idiot James Ohlen said 'there are no subscription losses', they announce 25% subscription loss. Georg Zoeller and Gabe Amantangelo, who previously were reasonably active on the Dev Tracker, have gone silent. One HOPES devoutly they've been fired, but I think it's more an issue of them sitting in an Ivory Tower with they're fingers in their ears shouting "LALALALALAICAN'THEARYOU!!!!"
Sad really. Second IP they've managed to kill. The same guys responsible for the debacle of Warhammer Online (mostly Gabe and co) were put into similar roles for the development of this game. With nearly identical results. My friend and I are waiting for our time to run out and for GW2 to come out since we have nothing else to play. I'm convinced they COULD turn things around, but equally sure they WON'T. They will NOT make the necessary changes to restore the community's faith and interest in the product.
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
i guess it depends on your definition of bad
alot of people didnt give swtor the chance to become a good mmo.ive played enough mmos in my lifetime to know that mmos usually arent the greatest at release,but get better overtime
im guessing more people think they thought came to the game and expected some great mmo out the box.but forgot thats not how mmos work and left before the game even had the chance to get better
The PvP in TOR is going down exactly the same road it did in WAR with exactly the same excuses from the devs.
It won't get better because they won't listen and know better than their players (sic)
Brick wall, meet head :-(
The head developer in charge of PvP in SWTOR is an EA guy from warhammer who had control of PvP and or PvE there. In SWTOR he is the endgame guy and overlords both PvP and PvE.
SWTOR and Warhammer are twins on the major stuff, why would they make the same mistakes twice.
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
i guess it depends on your definition of bad
alot of people didnt give swtor the chance to become a good mmo.ive played enough mmos in my lifetime to know that mmos usually arent the greatest at release,but get better overtime
im guessing more people think they thought came to the game and expected some great mmo out the box.but forgot thats not how mmos work and left before the game even had the chance to get better
We're at 5 months now, has it gotten any better? I mean really?
Sorry, but at 5+ years and $200+million it doesn't get that new game slack from me. Can you really realize how much money that is? I know I have a hard time with it.
They made a choice, it was theirs not to launch the game with the most basic features like a chat bubble, UI and the list goes on and there are still features missing. Bugs, bugs and more bugs and no sign they are even trying to fix them.
Didn't that CEO guy tell everyone last month during 1.2 that there will be updates, patches or whatever every month hereafter? We have 10 days left in this month, any word on this month's installment?
I ask why be so sympathetic? Is it because it carries the Star Wars name? Is it because it carries the Bioware name? I ask all you sympathetic loyal till death fans if it ever occurred that maybe just maybe your being conned? Was the bait and switch that was ranked warzones last month just fall on lalalala ears? It's starting to look like monthly updates is the same bait and switch.
I'm a Star Wars fan since I was 5 years old, I lived it my whole life literally. I'm a Bioware fan since their conception and I conceder myself a worthy case study subject for fanaticism, but also even I can see when my beloved franchises are being exploited. It is because I'm such a fan that I scrutinize TOR so much. I can't stress that enough.
For one the sooner everyone excepts that EA is Bioware the better. EA bought them outright and is banking on the continued use of the name to sell EA products. Bioware is no longer the Bioware we all came to repect. It is only by name now being exploited by EA which is a totally different company than Bioware ever was. Any questions on that? I'm serious, any at all? My apologies but Bioware has been dead for years now. Please except that.
As for Star Wars, you better believe I'm a "Han shot first", WTF was the prequels, no George no fanatic. I admit I stayed in denial for many many years but there came a point when I had to finally admit George has lost it.
Anyways, if any of you people that are continuing to excuse away the problems to the game because you are Star Wars and Bioware fans, I can only hope that one day you all realize what I did. Those names are being exploited and so are you for allowing it. They put so many resources into making the game that why does it deserve sympathy for being new? I'm very angry because they spent so much and gave so little. Guess that's just my problem huh?
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
i guess it depends on your definition of bad
alot of people didnt give swtor the chance to become a good mmo.ive played enough mmos in my lifetime to know that mmos usually arent the greatest at release,but get better overtime
im guessing more people think they thought came to the game and expected some great mmo out the box.but forgot thats not how mmos work and left before the game even had the chance to get better
Oh i completely agree with you but the problem being that TOR really has no foundation for solid growth. Call it a hunch or what have you but i still have this suspicion that they realized this around 6-8 months prior to release and by then it was too late to change anything.
This was exacerbated by the fact that their internal testers failed to look at how players interact with each other. They were so focused on the story that they forgot what makes an MMO an MMO.
I was part of the friends and family program and trying to have constructive conversations with these people was like banging my head against the wall. Far too many people involved in that process saw the game for what i could be instead of what it was and still remains to be; lost potential.
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
i guess it depends on your definition of bad
alot of people didnt give swtor the chance to become a good mmo.ive played enough mmos in my lifetime to know that mmos usually arent the greatest at release,but get better overtime
im guessing more people think they thought came to the game and expected some great mmo out the box.but forgot thats not how mmos work and left before the game even had the chance to get better
Oh i completely agree with you but the problem being that TOR really has no foundation for solid growth. Call it a hunch or what have you but i still have this suspicion that they realized this around 6-8 months prior to release and by then it was too late to change anything.
This was exacerbated by the fact that their internal testers failed to look at how players interact with each other. They were so focused on the story that they forgot what makes an MMO an MMO.
I was part of the friends and family program and trying to have constructive conversations with these people was like banging my head against the wall. Far too many people involved in that process saw the game for what i could be instead of what it was and still remains to be; lost potential.
Bad companies are often like cults they self-select for their point of view.
Just a funny post I thought I'd put up on here, people are so scared of the fascist censorship on the official forums that people are developing codes and "secret languages" in order to communicate, as they would under a repressive regime.
EDIT: obviously did not work, the thread was deleted 5 minutes later. "Clouds" secret code = failed. Next!
Apparently, I'm not allowed to talk about other things due to certain rules on the forums.
But I can talk about The Clouds, you know, the clouds in SWTOR.
The Clouds don't give a damn about you, me, or anyone else for that matter. They don't give a damn about the game, and sure as hell don't care if it lives or dies. They have a little counter, and whenever the clouds do something they get marked by it. It isn't about keeping it safe and fun for everyone, it's about getting paid. If it ends up looking like North Korea, the clouds don't care, as long as they get paid. Who cares about others right? The clouds don't care if there's no feedback, and if the developers end up scratching their heads wondering why the game went bust, the clouds aren't gonna be held accountable, so the clouds don't care lol.
Comments
Someone reposted the "I told you so" post on the official swtor.com forums, where the OP predicted all the problems with 1.2 and was banned for trying to provide solutions.
He quoted his own posts from PTS forums while testing the patch, warning Bioware about the problems with the patch (all his posts were ignored), after which he provided the solutions (which were also ignored).
Of course the repost was deleted shortly after, and whoever posted it was probably banned.
Posted by Redmarx
It seems petty perhaps to point this out now, but all the problems and the massive amount of complaints about 1.2 were predictable.
Let me rephrase that: they were predicted. By me. And others.
All my posts quoted below are 2-4 weeks old, mostly on PVP and PTS forums arguing against the 1.2 changes.
How can I put it better than this: I told you so.
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3473038]The balance changes are... unbelievable.
As a marauder, I can honestly say: bad idea, we are going to be insanely overpowered.
Sorcs and merc healers: reroll.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3744851]After 1.2, people will be begging for pre-1.2 game balance.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3651944]They need to add a debuff and votekick function.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3819069]No PVP testing was done on PTS. None.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Warzones should award a good amount of credits, don't force PVPers to grind PVE dailies for cash, we hate that sort of thing[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3593600]What is the point of having Q&A sessions at all if you're going to avoid ALL the most pressing concerns of the players.
Rather than giving straight answers, you instead choose to answer fluff questions asked on a whim by a couple of people on the forum rather than the hundreds of posts on the same major issues:
- Why has the healing paradigm been so drastically changed so suddenly, and is causing healing frustration really a good idea given that healers are the core of every operation / warzone?
- What are the PVP design decisions (specifically, what roles in rated warzones do you believe make sense) behind the sweeping nerfs to some classes that are in dire need of help (operative) and a complete lack of attention to the strongest classes (tank assassins in dps gear)?
- Why does it appear to the playerbase that you do balance changes purely based on who cries foul on forums the most? Is that actually how you do them? Isn't it awful that we even have to ask?
- What kind of improvements are you making to the PTS to allow more widespread testing, rather than just testing by a small group of guilds who might give insufficient / incorrect data?
- Why are server issues not being addressed more proactively in order to avoid eventual implosions due to straggling activity?
etc etc.
If all you wanted was easy questions, the answers to which no one cares about, you could just invent the questions yourselves and answer why the lightsaber is green (hint: it's because of the crystal).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Melee destroys ranged in this game. The only cases where ranged can dominate is against disorganised pugs full of bad players.
In skilled PVP, melee is dominant, by far.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]Well clearly Bioware has no clue.
1.2 is going to be a disaster if this is how they are balancing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3492212]Pretty much.
Both sorcs and mercs got hit hard with a healing nerfbat, with no real thought or coherent plan behind it.
Ilum was a fiasco, Bioware was not prepared, we get that, mass world PVP is a notoriously hard thing to get right. Feel free to ask your Warhammer devs why they failed, but for pity's sake don't invite them to give their opinions on class balance changes.
The 1.2 patch class balance changes are ill-devised and frankly amateurish.
And this is coming from a marauder, who will be godmode in 1.2.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3206025]Well done for outing yourself on forums as a bad player.
Only the absolute worst, most clueless pug dps monkeys think healers need nerfing.
Interrupts are huge due to their extremely short cds. Throw a PT and a marauder on a healer. There is nothing that healer can do, they will die very quickly unless peeled and guarded/taunted like a maniac.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3506923]I often look at other marauders and facepalm.
No, having a few more buttons to deal damage does not make marauder hard to play. Every class is easy, it's muscle memory and practice; but clearly there are a lot of clickers around.
As for class balance, marauder was already the strongest PVP class by far.
Buffing us is going to result in balance problems down the road which will threaten to get the class gutted like what they did to dps operatives, sorcs and mercs in 1.2
Rather not have that happen, tyvm.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]The devs have no clue what they are doing. Their testers are a bunch of inexperienced PVE clickers who have never played in a proper PVP premade.
GZ thinks teams of operatives are stunlocking people and making them unsub, and that somehow hybrid sorcs and tracermercs are stronger than marauders or tank assassins.
That's the level of chaos and cluelessness that is going on.
It's no wonder 1.2, which should have been a great jesus-patch with lots of new content, is being destroyed by a horrible class balance debacle.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3731617]So you basically interrupt yourself if you're a keybinder and pressing your next instant ability while your current one is going off?
That's... ridiculous. It will make the game unplayable for anyone who isn't a clicker.
I wonder if the design team are all clickers.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3650792]To answer the original question:
Bad players think that sorcs, dps mercs, and dps operatives are overpowered.
Bioware listens to bad players, see 1.2 patch notes.
Hope that was simple and clear enough.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3635658]Ilum was a PVP fiasco.
The devs didn't listen to the simple advice of limiting the number of people of one faction to 50% of the total max players in 1 instance of Ilum. It would have been a simple fix, but no, they did not listen.
While the PVE changes and additional content in 1.2 are excellent, the patch is looking like another PVP fiasco, with incredibly poor balance tuning that appears to have been done based on the QQ of terrible players, and no real thought to proper PVP progression.
Developers need to start listening to the experienced, intelligent players more; and listening to the clueless pug randoms less. It would lead to much more judicious changes than what we routinely see in MMOs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3555211]Marauder/Sentinel can break assists better than any other class in the game. That is exactly why we are so strong in group PVP and dominate warzones.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3555211]The fight actually looks very simple and not difficult.
The difficulty is artificially boosted by having healers who can't heal.
I guess this is their new "design" - make the game boring yet frustrating.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3492212]NPC in starting area, click on it to recieve enough xp to ding to 50.
Remove costs of items on fleet vendors.
Problem solved.
PTS working properly and enabling players to test all content and submit feedback to make a better 1.2 patch.
Does this honestly sound too complicated?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3454552]We melee are already stronger than ranged in PVP... and you want to buff melee?
Something very wrong behind the keyboard.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3376550]Good stream, nice initiative.
I guess it does show what good players have known for a long time:
- Strong classes: powertechs, marauders, merc healers
- Weak classes: tracerspammers, sorcs, snipers[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3333122]Healing is fine. HOTs and instant casts are quite weak.
Oh you're complaining about the casted heals? Why are you letting healers cast?
Oh because you're awful at PVP, pugging solo expecting to beat guarded healers without an assist and without calling interrupts.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3769779]Nothing left to do but watch it all crumble.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Redmarx;3820523]I feel like it's 2 days left till NGE hits and I have nothing to wear.[/QUOTE]
Yup, pretty much all true, they have been warned for months, and when 1,2 patch notes were made public lot of people scratched their heads and asked themselves why do they want to ruin their own game.
Now, if threads werent closed ba the speed of light, every second thread would be complaint about something in above post.
PTS is a joke, PvP was thorougly untested, thats reason why rated WZs were scrapped but lot of stuff that made sense only for rated WZs was left ingame (even "preseason" sign) so PvP is one big mess.
Not to talk about whole Ilum situation.
Sigh, such promising game, and so little delivered, and what little was delivered ruined, by themselves, in patches.
Wonder whats going on in BW, i think they are more confused atm than their customers (which are very confused about direction of SWTOR) lol
It's funny, looking back at this, the trend towards closing threads and overall censorship of any criticism on the swtor.com forums has become even worse.
I guess this is what happens when a bad moderation team has no supervision and treats the forums like their own fanboy club.
Clap Clap Clap!!!!
'Originally posted by Shatter30
Doesnt matter, GW2 will be out soon so to heck with TOR and their horrible devs"
meh,gw2 just looks like deja vu of swtor all over again
community comes in,hypes the game to living hell.devs cant live up to the hype the players give the game.and it tanks 6 months later
and i wouldnt count on gw2 coming out soon.since theres no release date,so for all we know.it could end up being another duke nukem forever.eather way though i plan on checking it out,but i guess i probably could say i probably wouldnt even bother with gw2 if the pvp in swtor was actually good and not tacked on garbage
When I see a company acting like this I immediately concael my sub/stop buying any expansions and stop playing. Its an instant boycott from me on all their products.
And this is coming from someone who is still posting on these boards after getting a temp ban two days ago. One that was unfair in my opinion as I wasn't flamaing I was simply being ironic. But that's fine sometimes it hard for the mods to see irony or sarcsam in a written medium.
But what is going on in the SWTOR forums is sickening.
Difference being the devs hyped up SWTOR because they knew the game was bad 6 months prior to release and the players hype GW2 because it's an actually well built game.
Such drama; threads on this site wouldn't be worthy without it.
Wow I wasn't really reading up on what they did but after reading that I started having acid flash backs of WAR and its horrible magnet stuff and the radical changes they made. It also reminded me of the champions online release day patch that radically changed gameplay.
I have thought since before release that this game was probably not made by Bioware but rather that EA rebranded the Mythic devs as Bioware and Bioware only did guidance on the personal story aspects and some overall management oversight.
Giving the insane swing and lack of prepared well though out design I am starting to turn that into a certainty. It was the same problem in WAR, they basically never even tried to mature their design. They had an ok starting point and then just winged it. Really immature method of doing things. It was the main reason I left the game. I knew they could never do better. I was sure they could come up with all kinds of changes but they would never have a mature design they seemed to lack any ability to deliberate or refine their ideas.
The WAR campaign was so close to being pretty good, but even that they couldn't change to make sense. And the problems it had at release were so obvious. They clearly never even tried to refine it or they were completely blinded by arrogance.
Post like this are need to be put in there own forum called "I'm right! Your wrong! Discuss"
If GW2 doesn't have quadruple the concurrent players at prime time of SWTOR in about a year I will be really surprised. And that is being really conservative, I really think it will be 10 times. Not subs but people actually playing it since we can't use subs for GW2.
Yes, he did. And he's widely respected within the community, such as it is. And yet, he's banned/deleted/ignored by the devs. It's reached almost laughable levels there. The two servers I play on, Corellian Run and Wall of Light, used to be in the top 10 for population. Last night, during peak times.... 20-40 people in fleet.
I campaigned long and hard and defended the game. I truly thought they had something special. It's debatable whether they did or not, but what's certain NOW is, they're killing it. Two weeks after that great idiot James Ohlen said 'there are no subscription losses', they announce 25% subscription loss. Georg Zoeller and Gabe Amantangelo, who previously were reasonably active on the Dev Tracker, have gone silent. One HOPES devoutly they've been fired, but I think it's more an issue of them sitting in an Ivory Tower with they're fingers in their ears shouting "LALALALALAICAN'THEARYOU!!!!"
Sad really. Second IP they've managed to kill. The same guys responsible for the debacle of Warhammer Online (mostly Gabe and co) were put into similar roles for the development of this game. With nearly identical results. My friend and I are waiting for our time to run out and for GW2 to come out since we have nothing else to play. I'm convinced they COULD turn things around, but equally sure they WON'T. They will NOT make the necessary changes to restore the community's faith and interest in the product.
i guess it depends on your definition of bad
alot of people didnt give swtor the chance to become a good mmo.ive played enough mmos in my lifetime to know that mmos usually arent the greatest at release,but get better overtime
im guessing more people think they thought came to the game and expected some great mmo out the box.but forgot thats not how mmos work and left before the game even had the chance to get better
The head developer in charge of PvP in SWTOR is an EA guy from warhammer who had control of PvP and or PvE there. In SWTOR he is the endgame guy and overlords both PvP and PvE.
SWTOR and Warhammer are twins on the major stuff, why would they make the same mistakes twice.
We're at 5 months now, has it gotten any better? I mean really?
Sorry, but at 5+ years and $200+million it doesn't get that new game slack from me. Can you really realize how much money that is? I know I have a hard time with it.
They made a choice, it was theirs not to launch the game with the most basic features like a chat bubble, UI and the list goes on and there are still features missing. Bugs, bugs and more bugs and no sign they are even trying to fix them.
Didn't that CEO guy tell everyone last month during 1.2 that there will be updates, patches or whatever every month hereafter? We have 10 days left in this month, any word on this month's installment?
I ask why be so sympathetic? Is it because it carries the Star Wars name? Is it because it carries the Bioware name? I ask all you sympathetic loyal till death fans if it ever occurred that maybe just maybe your being conned? Was the bait and switch that was ranked warzones last month just fall on lalalala ears? It's starting to look like monthly updates is the same bait and switch.
I'm a Star Wars fan since I was 5 years old, I lived it my whole life literally. I'm a Bioware fan since their conception and I conceder myself a worthy case study subject for fanaticism, but also even I can see when my beloved franchises are being exploited. It is because I'm such a fan that I scrutinize TOR so much. I can't stress that enough.
For one the sooner everyone excepts that EA is Bioware the better. EA bought them outright and is banking on the continued use of the name to sell EA products. Bioware is no longer the Bioware we all came to repect. It is only by name now being exploited by EA which is a totally different company than Bioware ever was. Any questions on that? I'm serious, any at all? My apologies but Bioware has been dead for years now. Please except that.
As for Star Wars, you better believe I'm a "Han shot first", WTF was the prequels, no George no fanatic. I admit I stayed in denial for many many years but there came a point when I had to finally admit George has lost it.
Anyways, if any of you people that are continuing to excuse away the problems to the game because you are Star Wars and Bioware fans, I can only hope that one day you all realize what I did. Those names are being exploited and so are you for allowing it. They put so many resources into making the game that why does it deserve sympathy for being new? I'm very angry because they spent so much and gave so little. Guess that's just my problem huh?
Oh i completely agree with you but the problem being that TOR really has no foundation for solid growth. Call it a hunch or what have you but i still have this suspicion that they realized this around 6-8 months prior to release and by then it was too late to change anything.
This was exacerbated by the fact that their internal testers failed to look at how players interact with each other. They were so focused on the story that they forgot what makes an MMO an MMO.
I was part of the friends and family program and trying to have constructive conversations with these people was like banging my head against the wall. Far too many people involved in that process saw the game for what i could be instead of what it was and still remains to be; lost potential.
Bad companies are often like cults they self-select for their point of view.
Just a funny post I thought I'd put up on here, people are so scared of the fascist censorship on the official forums that people are developing codes and "secret languages" in order to communicate, as they would under a repressive regime.
EDIT: obviously did not work, the thread was deleted 5 minutes later. "Clouds" secret code = failed. Next!
The Clouds
MoromillasJoined: Feb 2012
But I can talk about The Clouds, you know, the clouds in SWTOR.
The Clouds don't give a damn about you, me, or anyone else for that matter. They don't give a damn about the game, and sure as hell don't care if it lives or dies. They have a little counter, and whenever the clouds do something they get marked by it. It isn't about keeping it safe and fun for everyone, it's about getting paid. If it ends up looking like North Korea, the clouds don't care, as long as they get paid. Who cares about others right? The clouds don't care if there's no feedback, and if the developers end up scratching their heads wondering why the game went bust, the clouds aren't gonna be held accountable, so the clouds don't care lol.