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Healers need not apply?
EllieAnne
Member Posts: 23
in Guild Wars 2
I saw a quick blurb that any character can do healing and looking at the classes, I didn't see a pure healer (monk), Those of you that have played the beta, what role is there for someone that wants to be a pure healer?
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You can play a support character tough thats there to prevent people from taking damage. and make people survive those moments of need, even healing them a little. But since there are no tanks, you will probably be resurecting those to brave souls a lot (which everyone can do during the battle)
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
There are no dedicated healers and no dedicated tanks. No one can stand to to toe vs. an Elite mob and stay up because someone is focus healing them. The game doesn't work that way.
I know that when something is this different than the norm that many people used to doing things a certain way in other games may at first wonder what's in this game for them, if they can't, say, be a dedicated healer or a dedicated tank? I usually play a healer as my main in MMOs, but I'm actually very glad for a breather from that mode of game play. The combat experience is exceptional here and I've found other ways to support allies, while making my own game play a lot more fun that staring at a party ui, clicking heals.
I can still play a character spec that allows me to help other people and I actually have made good use of what healing spells are available to an Elementalist in order to swing a few battles our way. However, since it becomes clear to everyone pretty early that healers and tanks don't exist in this game, people just adapt and learn to take personal responsibility for their own survival via use of skills, active dodging and intelligent, adaptive tactics. Because everyone is in that frame of mind, if you do take what in GW2 amounts to a healing heavy build, you can actually make a notable difference with the occassional heal, with out ever making yourself a crutch that discourages smart game play on the part of your allies.
So, I hope people who have a strong preference to any class or playstyle from other games won't write of GW2 just because it does things differently. What it does differently it does for a reason and all those design elements come together to make a pheniminally fun and immersive game.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I am a healer by convention in games. I'm the priest, cleric, or in GW, many times, the monk, and later (because it was just the absolute best thing I'd ever played up to that point), the ritualist. I like supporting the group, helping everyone stick together, and keep them well oiled and all alive. I like to support rather than engage monsters directly in many cases.
I found myself very at home with the two classes I tried out seriously in the betas: guardian and mesmer.
With the guardian, I could do a little spot healing if people needed it. I could stop people getting hit so hard in various ways. I could draw a line on the ground that people could retreat behind. I could trap mobs inside a bubble, or hide inside that same bubble and get a second the gather myself, and others could use it for the same purpose. I felt like I was protecting everyone and keeping things moving, but I wasn't standing in a corner watching health bars move up and down, which has been a common thing I've done in the past. Not that I dislike doing that, honestly. I do choose to play healers after all.
But I could also dish out some damage. I could pull out a greatsword and spin in a circle pretty much killing everything around. I could pick up a hammer and knock baddies for six in a very satifying and enjoyable way. I could dish out some minor aoe with a staff, which also had some good support on it.
With a mesmer, I felt like I was everyone all the time. I bounced around the battlefield and was always cloning myself. I was constantly buffing friends and debuffing the enemy. I could send in my illusions for all kinds of havoc, messing with groups of enemies in a pretty satisfying way. I could bounce around and keep everyone off-guard. I couldn't do as much direct support, but, especially with a staff, I was providing constant indrect support with powerful, short-duration buffs, but I was applying them consistently during the battle, so it was a wash in that regard.
I could also have a very good damage rotation solo. I would (again) use a greatsword. (As an aside, the animations for the greatsword for mesmers were just awesome. You channeled energy and levitated it between your hands and used it as a focus for spells. So freaking cool.) I could pull from a good distance, start off with an attack that made them more vulnerable to damage, debuff them and get an illusion early on. I could knock them backwards as well, and keep them as a safe distance while I litterally shot them with a freaking laser beam.
I have always loved healers, because I love their aesthetic usually, and I love helping out the group instead of just dishing out damage. In GW2, I could go toe-to-toe with a mob or, more often, a group of mobs, hold my own by myself, keep myself alive, but I could also pop around the battlefield and make sure everyone is okay. I could save people in need with a well-placed ability I could get in mobs' way and keep them from bothering an ally so much. I felt like I had control of the battlefield a had a general feeling of organized chaos. I have never felt so able to be the support guy while also feeling powerful enough to take care of myself. It was the most satisfying group combat I've ever played as a support player.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
No healers, you can be a supporter though, but can't be one that operates like a healer.(I tested the support builds in case there where any misconceptions about a heavily support trait build would result into there being an healer.)
But yea pure healers need not a apply, unless you'd like to try something and experience something different in this MMO. Your money.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Well, actually.
The Engineer is a healer/support type, however, they are not just a healer/support type, they are so much more. Engineers can use healer satchels which turns their weapons into healing products. Which when used drops medpacks and things on the ground with like a 45 second timer or so. So the difference would be you dont directly click on a person and heal them. That DPS player or tank has to pay a bit more attention and evade and rollback to those medpack drops that heal them.
Also, say that type of tool is to annoying for you, you always use a healing turret. Use your shield as bubble deflector. They are the bags of tricks so to speak. I played on in stress test and they were very enjoyable.
It's really not a healers game. The support roles are pretty minimal, so much so that you don't even notice if you are fighting with one at all. If you are fighting one of the bigger monsters with a bunch of people it's pretty much an aggro-less chaos. You'll spend more time rezzing people than you will helping them live. You'll get more xp rezzing than you ever will actually healing someone anyway.
GW2 has gotten rid of the trinity, but they've replaced it with nothing, unlike games like Rift that let everyone have a healer role or a tank role (mostly) or TSW that will let you use skills to amplifly your prefered playstlye. GW2 is a flavorless mess that way. Every class feels the same pretty much. Sure the abilities vary, but one class plays a lot like another. Press 1, strafe, dodge when you have to (but it's limited by a stamina type mechanic), manage your cooldowns. If you get really crazy you can even swap weapons. The good news is the game is kind of built around that, so it works in the setting. You just won't be that guy known as "the good healer" or "a decent tank". In fact, the way the game is built, you really won't be known at all. It's a casual soloers dream.
It's a good game, there isn't much NOT to like. But don't buy into the hype. It's still an MMO, it's still got tab targeting, you will still be killing X of whatever all the time. It's just got a new paint job and is presented in a different way.
As has been emphasized, it's not really a healer's game.
However, if what you are really after is support, you do have a few options:
Guardian: Think of this as GW2's paladin. Guardians are great at shielding allies, adding buffs, throwing down marks that heal / block damage, etc. They also wear heavy armor, and are very tough to kill.
Engineer: Engineer is a true support class in every sense of the word. This manifests in their kits. For healing you can lay down a healing turret, or equip a medkit & throw bandages on the ground, as well as speed pots & antidotes. They also lay down mines, or can throw grenades / bombs & such. They are basically an overall battlefield support class.
Less so, you could also try a water elementalist, but you would be really short-sighting the class. They have some decent AoE heals in the staff's water attunement that can help for that.
- However, there are no direct heals in the game (they are all either self-heals, or AoE heals). And there aren't enough heals to really keep people alive on your own. Survivability is much more determined by strategic gameplay, proper use of boons & conditions, and dodging. There are certain builds that work better as support types, but there are none that really focus on healing that are all that effective.
Engineer or Elementalist would be your best bet for support characters.
The mechanics in GW2 are very different, the roles have changed. It was suppose to help players have more fun and be more involved that just healing, but I guess there are a lot of players that like that.
Looks like you had bad luck and only played with bad support specced players. When played properly, support classes make a huge difference in harder events. Just like in other games, if you are surrounded by button mashers, all they will do it mash buttons... and if you have the luck to be with good players, you'll notice the difference
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
guardian and enginneers will help u feel to an extent that you are helping people healing hema nd buffing them
I'm gonna ignore the insults and personal attacks and let the moderators deal with them and go straight to the point.
I'm also playing MMORPGs since over 17 years now (I was in UO beta) and I was also playing MUDs before, so your veteran card doesn't work with me.
And yes, I've been in events in GW2 where the support specializations where making a big difference, not only from heals, but also from buffs on allies and debuffs on the mobs. And I've been in others where people where obviously not familiar with their support specialization or some where there weren't any support classes at all, and the difference was noticeable.
Considering how new the mechanics of GW2 are compared to the usual WoW clone, it's not surprising many people haven't figured out how to properly play specific specializations yet, specially people who never played anything else than WoW clones.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Or maybe you are just choosing not to see what's actually there?
There's been more than enough demonstration of how a good player vs. a bad player makes a huge difference in how the game plays, and in how a difficult fight can turn out. It's like night and day.
Furthermore, I'm guessing you haven't seen any of the videos showing how people were able to get 10-13k hits? That can only be done w/ the right buffs, and not having those can cut your damage in half. That's a pretty damn big difference. I'll take a group with people blowing warhorns any day, over a team of people button mashing. Support skills absolutely matter in this game, but only if you know how to use them (this goes for the people being buffed as well. Not just the people doing the buffing). For example, if you buff your allies with vigor (lets them dodge more often) and they aren't dodging, it will seem useless. However, if the enemy does the same thing, and you're target is repeatedly dodging your attacks, it's extremely annoying. Furthermore there are group shields, heals, resses, and buffs. All of which can change a nasty fight into a successful one.
Don't know why you're so hostile, or why you're getting so defensive, but the evidence is there. There was a video posted a few days ago that I think said it best about the combat in GW2. They give you the tools to do what you need to do, and it's up to the players as to how complex they want to get with it. If you choose to play the game in a very simplistic manner (ie spamming the 3 button), then you may be able to pull that off, and the combat will seem extremely simple and dull to you. However, that doesn't mean that a player who decides to utilize his skills differently, or run a more complex build, won't be able to trump yours, or achieve better results.
There is no need to start drama or acting like you are 15 years old. His reply was polite, don't know how you could get aggrivated by it. Anyways back to the OP, support is still more than welcome in GW2 you can just just switch easily between support and damage in battle.
As for what you are saying, I very strongly disagree. As a support character, I found myself in positions to make very crucial contributions to encounters. I did find that in some DEs, when there were large groups of mobs and players together, it did sometimes degenerate into an agro-less mob of aoe and a sort of zerg happened. But that was the exception, not the rule. I believe this occured as a result of people spamming abilities in the heat of battle because they were not really familiar with the combat system, their skills, or the way the game works in general, which is a pretty significant shift in both mechanics and mentality from previous MMOs.
My question to you, is, did you actually play during any of the recent test content? You sound like someone who is very against the game, and it isn't entirely clear from your posts when or how much you played the game. Being someone who doesn't like the game or the ideas present in it, I doubt you would have pre-purchased it. If that is the case, and you have not played the game more than brief controlled periods, your opinion loses a great deal of its value.
This is, as I said, a significant deviation in both mechanics and mentality from previous MMOs, and though you can watch videos and hear people describing their experiences, but it really can't convey the totality of the experience. Just as many people are describing dynamic events, many people still don't get the concept and feel the lack of "quests" as such will make the game feel flat or insipid, which I can say obviously isn't the case.
But I've experienced the game world. I've seen what DEs do for the game world. I have seen how combat actually functions and how skillful use of support skills is both very effective and very apparent.
One thing that wasn't immediately obvious to others was when I was a mesmer using a staff. There were so many buffs and debuffs, and they last for a such a short duration, that it was pointless to try to keep track of them. But It was obvious with the big flashing balls of energy than buffing and debuffing was what I was doing. And because there are so few buffs and debuffs, the specifics didn't need to be known so much. The icons were enough to let people know what effects were being applied.
Edit: And lastly, your earlier charge that all classes feel the same is patently false and obvious to anyone, or should be. They all play very differently and feel very different. They can all do decent damage, they can all support allies, and they can all control the field, but they do so in wildly disparate ways, so your saying that they all feel the same gives the impression you actually don't have much experience playing Guild Wars 2.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
EllieAnne,
When I played in the Beta weekend, I played a few different race/profession combinations. The interface has a window, where players may spend their traits. For each character, the top row of traits were all healing focused. As a player, I could have spent all my points focusing on improving my healing abilities at first, and then support/damage abilities later, or pick and choose as I see fit. With that said, Arena Net purposefully set out to stop players from only fulfilling a single role in the game. So, if you are only looking to fulfill the role of a healer, then you will be able to heal, but you will not be fulfilling your other roles for the group.
The below links may offer better insight into traits and healing.
Traits http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/traits-overview/
Healing http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
I will add that I like the way Arena Net make everyone in the group (somewhat) equally responsible for the fights. No one has to rely on a single person to tank, damage, or heal in GW2. Granted, this is based on my personal experience in a single Beta weekend, so I've only experienced the lower levels of gameplay. However, there is a bounty of quality video footage and articles with information about the game. I recommend adding the official Guild Wars 2 Facebook feed to your account on Facebook (if you have an account with FB), as Arena Net seems to send more updates about the game to that outlet. Whether it's fun for you, only you can decide, of course. I think if you only want to play a healer role, then you may want to take a look at some other games (if you haven't already).
Necromancer with Deadly Invigoration (trait) + Near to Death (trait) + Mark of Evasion (trait) + Mark Blood (skills) + lot of compassion seem one of best for healing. i suppose the heal skill from Deadly Invigoration will be a well of blood
The Jury is is not entirely decided on this issue.
However this guy makes a rather compelling case that support is vasty under rated by the playerbase:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIuw-2wJMeU
And considering all the green numbers he is putting out while also putting down some smack down (with what is basically fairly decent but not spectacular gameplay) its pretty compelling.
There is no such thing as a Pure healer or even a Pure support. You must learn to attack. However there are builds that focus on putting out tons more support than other builds and they can be a great help to a team.
There are no (or at least almost no) skills that do large spike healing. If you are a support that does signficant healing it is basically sustained heals over time. Its more about pressure than saving people from instant death.
You CAN support. You CAN do ALOT of support. But you cannot just arbitrarily save people regularly from the point of death. You cannot just sit back and ONLY support. You must also learn to attack. Some of your attacks ARE support and important supports. The guardian shield for exmple has a push back that is great for rezzing people.
Pure healers who couldn't do anything else weren't terribly useful in GW1, either. For that matter, being a pure healer who can't do anything else is sub-optimal in a lot of games.
If you insist that you want to heal only and never do anything else, then GW2 isn't the game for you. If you want to do a fair bit of healing, but also mix in some other stuff, then you'll have a lot of options in GW2.
The closest thing to a healer profession is the guardian.
But because of how important staying mobile and dodging is to avoid damage, the guardian cannot stand back and support effectively. They have to get into the thick of things and contribute in other ways on top of their "healeresque" abilities.
But yet only one of those items you listed is an actual heal. I don't think healer is the right word for it
OP, if you are looking to be a standard heal bot type of player in GW2 then you will be disappointed. But if you are willing to be supportive to your teammates by means other than healing, then there is certainly a place for you in the game.
Yeah, I took that part out.
There is no real healer.
Guardian is similar to a prot monk from GW1 and I think that's as close as GW2 will get.
Not exactly correct with the correct traits and skills a guardian (and other classes) can put out significant sustained healing over a long period of time.
Many people are over looking traits. Traits are very powerful. Its one of the ways a Necro can use to put out significant sustained healing.
People need to remember that many skill serve multiple purposes. Sometimes one maneuver you do has multiple consequences. It may be an attack that also adds regen. With the right traits shifting in and out of death shroud can make you send out heals, remove conditions AND chill enemies.
As far as I have tested and researched anyone wishing to play support best look to elementalist, engineer or guardian.
Even then you have to plan ahead and use specific support powers and traits. You can pretty much still switch weapons, kits or attunements and go another route upon demand.
You stay sassy!