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Ouch - I5
Wepps
Member Posts: 1,322
New Content
Additional power sets, very important.
Amazing numbers of new people have joined the game, making it impossible to street hunt. There are still a lot of people seeking this kind of content, rather than having to do the missions. There are no enemy on the streets to speak of in the newbie zones.
Lag has reached new heights in CoH.
The good...
New Power Sets. Any new content in this game is like handing a Happy Meal to a starving person.
The Bad...
Trick Arrow is basically the Devices power set of the Blaster. It's neato, but if you want to avoid a lot of frustration when your entire power set has minimal effect, avoid this. For example, I have found that the flash arrow that AoEs enemy, rendering them blind and therefore harder to hit you, is nothing more than a souped-up smoke grenade with a more interesting effect, which btw is nerfed to near uselessness. Heck even the first arrow power is a web grenade that takes longer to throw.
When deployed against +1 minions, you miss about 50/50 anyway, and the effect of reduction of to-hit to the enemy is minimal anyway, even with enhancements to that effect.
The Lag...
Enemy are unaffected by the lag. They will still conduct the beatdown while you are waiting to load your bow, so be mobile! Forget street hunting, just do the opening missions.
The Ugly...
Soloing is still not an option, or at least, not a viable one. Too much debt due to too many deaths adds up to this part of the content essentially being non-existent. To be honest, I have no idea what Statesman is talking about when he keeps spouting off about how "we want you to solo". I think he isn't playing normally generated characters anymore and is removed from the game play.
Basically, the game was nerfed too much. A player seeking to log on and enjoy themselves over the next 30 minutes might as well forget it. Street hunting at any level 11+ is not a reasonable method of soloing, and missions even at those low levels sometimes take HOURS to complete due to the tough nature of the enemy.
This game is not for the casual player, therefore, regardless of what you are being told now, or how it was marketed in the past. Once your character achieves teen levels, you must group to be effective, or if you can solo missions make sure you have a nice long time-block set aside.
The same issue of Blaster-Nerfing still exists. Today, the Blaster is totally lame for soloing, and the nerf whiners are still on that sugar high. However, other archetypes have been upgraded. So now, basically the Scrapper can do on the street what the Blaster used to do. Go figure. I just don't see the point.
But then again, developers have always had a problem with Ranger-types. Every game's development nerfing has always begun with the ranged combat folks, especially if they are capable of snaring the enemy or somehow lowering their effectiveness in the fight. This game is no different.
Archers can be considered Ranger-type class in CoH. But they are really no more than a nerfed Blaster with a bow, and will never be allowed any better solo opportunities than the Blaster.
If you are looking to buy the game after I5, or return, there is some new content but the game still lacks tremendously in this regard, especially in the game play itself. You can solo to 10 if you intend to bypass the Hollows content. If you insist on being effective, you have no choice but to group after level 5.
The sole exception now, whereas in the past it used to be the F/D Blaster, is the D/D Scrapper archetype. Like I said, just don't see the point. If one is overpowered, why isn't the other? Blaster is nothing more than artillery for a group. But don't get aggro. A group is always better off with a defensible method of offensive output, and a full group of Scrappers with an Earth Controller is the real power in the game.
Lack of options and content still plagues this product. Content may be found in the high end with new zones, but that road to 50 lacks. The problem, even as a superhero, is apparently in what you can DO, not where you can GO, and this is where game content is found. If a player has no options but to group because he isn't powerful enough, then calling yourself a superhero is like calling an ox a bull. He's greatful for the honor, but would much rather have restored what's rightfully his.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Comments
If they would remove the HOs completely (or give it to groups or solo rather then raiding) I would resume CoH...however, the game is far from pristine.
IMO, CoH is on a downward spiral, the game downgrade with time. Most stuff the staff bring in are upgrades, but they do quite many criticals mistakes (the Hamidon been the worst mistake). When you give a toy to a player, you NEVER remove that toy under any consideration...(and this contradict my very condition to play CoH again...since it would mean you remove the toys from all raiders...now this is a lose/lose scenario, and on my side, there cant be any compromise, raiding dont deserve better tools outside of raiding...quite simple)
Oh, you are an adult and you can understand...well...NO.
I dont understand, I had a toy, and now I dont have it anymore.
Just walking around with my regen/BS I realize how useless and pointless this character was, why take a BS if it is never usefull compare to let say, spines or claws and Reflexes? The goal to do melee damage is to be able to take on bigger targets. Name me 1 bigger target that is worth such a sacrifice in the game...tic, tac, tic, tac. There are none, a boss 1 level more or 2 is not worth such a sacrifice. Name me 1 good reason to take regen...there are none, should just go with invul or reflex...regen main reason is solo...and solo has been nerfed and is still been nerfed. Name me 1 reason to play a scrapper rather then a blaster now...there are none, you should just do real damage, the defensive powers are nearly useless now and you pay dearly in the damage output (and the blaster got bonus HPS, we see what the staff are playing, clearly), and since neither the scrapper or the blaster can take real target on a 1 vs 1 anyway, you should just take whatever carnage the most the weaks targets, and this is a blaster. So if you are level 50 and a scrapper, I am sorry to tell you, but you are a lame version of a blaster and a sorry excuse of a class.
A Spines regen is not that bad, but should not be regen...complete waste to be regen.
My PB is better then ever...but my PB dont get my interest as much as my first toon...prolly because my first toon is good looking, I like her style and most importantly, she is linked to her solo aptitude prior the 857323 nerfs to regens and solo. I recall Battle Maiden going down...solo...LOL, there is no such strong memories in any non-EQ toon I ever play...
Anyway, Paragon city is not big enought to hold both the Hamidon and me.
PS: The 5 days was a refresh...but I wont be using it anymore...I check and try what I want...and I see that my SG is inactive for 242-415 days if we exclude myself, and 350+ if we exclude just another guy.
PPS: It is sad when you consider that the initial game was better then the game with all the "upgrades".
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'll disagree with the "downward spiral" comment.
I've been an active player for some time, even during last week when I reloaded EQ2 (going to try to keep both going 1 week CoH, 2nd week EQ2) When I5 hit, I logged on, grouped with my supergroup and we had an 8 man, unyielding combat fest in Croatoa.
Combat was spectacular, took us longer and I'll admit, I died but not more then I usually do (I usually play a blapper)
The only thing I think that needs more tweeking is defiance. It needs to kick in sooner and scale a bit better. Currently, I don't even try to incorperate that new blaster ability into my playstyle.
I can only speak from a casual/grouping experience. My SG is still very active. Have had only 2 people leave and it was not due to the I5 changes. (I should know I maintaine the roster on our SG forum) We've actually had some more people join. We hover around 55-60 people.
In our 8 person team we had 2 blaster, 2 controllers, 1 scrapper, 3 defenders. Scrapper is a claw/regen and she was right in the thick of it all. We had a massive team wipe but that's because we aggroed 3 groups.
Controllers where still controlling. We had a ball...Although the summoned Rock pets from those green monsters sometimes were 6 levels above us...but with persistance, we did take em down without death.
there's a great thread on the CoH forums about the history of the community...people chiming in with doom posts that happened with each issue...5 issues later, and many people are still playing, some even apologizing to the devs for being ashats before I5 was releasted.
Now, I didn't post this to ask those who don't find the game fun to come back. You do what you want to do. Have fun. If it's not fun, move on...but please, take the drama with you. (this last sentence is for any MMO that anyone plays with, not just CoH.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Originally posted by Sanctus_Mors
The key words I've been able to determine in this post are underlined.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Wepps from reading your posts all I am getting from them are a bunch of QQ'ings... The purpose of an MMO is to GROUP with peeps. If that was not the purpose then you might as well play a SINGLE PLAYER RPG and stop the QQ'ing. I do not mean to sound mean but come on seriously there has to be some sort of Personal lvling/grinding available. I should know I have seen lots of peeps do it.
Personally for me MMO's are group based and guild based. If you are not in one then that is your choice. Personally I love to group with my friends and go farm or lvl alts somewhere it just makes that game that more enjoyable. It also helps build the community that goes with an MMO. With out a community there is no MMO.
Flame me if you want but I know I am not the only one that thinks this way.
PlayHard have Fun!!
I have a 35 emp defender and I can still solo my missions if I have to. It takes longer but I can do it. I also have a 45 blaster gun/devices and can solo missions also.
So I dont understand all the whining about I5.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
Not according to Jack Emmert, who keeps talking about the soloing possibilities of the game, which do not exist to any adequate degree.
Anybody who is used to soloing, and is interested in seeking this kind of game play, should avoid this product. To me it is being marketed to a playerbase that will not find satisfactory game play in this aspect of entertainment under those conditions. The recent statement from that end in my opinion constitutes false advertisement, and this statement can be considered a warning to those who are duped into purchasing this product and expecting something that it's not.
****************
Just for the heck of it, I'm going to make some predictions addressing the future of this product. Come back at the end of the time-period specified, and tell me I'm wrong about this:
1 - I5 is live, a lot of people returned and/or created new characters to reflect the new power sets.
Two reasons for this - one, there are an extremely limited number of options in power sets. (part of the lack-of-content problem) Two, those options are further limited by the fact that there are many more power-set combinations that are considered 'gimp' than there are options that could be considered reasonable.
Prediction one, then, is that people will eventually realize they've been 'had' because one of those powersets is simply a neat version of Devices, which will never have it's usefulness restored. The other constitutes a weak and slow-firing Fire Blaster power-set. These people will not realize this until level 30+, after which they will go back to their 'mains', and the great number of archer types you see today will disappear as it will be counted as yet another 'gimp' method of proceeding.
The only change worthy of discussion here is in Sonic. However, this is a single content addition. This game needs a lot more.
2 - City of Villains releases.
Now you have TONS of people joining the game. One of the things keeping people from the game is the fact that there is no PvP to speak of...this is another area where content is essentially non-existent.
Now you can make bases that look exactly like missions, there is tons of new content in the form of Villains, and PvP exists.
For about 3 months the game will flourish at a greater level than any time before this point.
However, the Villains aspect of the game play will be essentially a copy of the Heroes version in total content available, and effectiveness of the power-sets. People will come to realize they are copying their game play with a new look, and there is nothing really 'new' to speak of (aside from storylines of course).
They also will begin to bypass the existing missions content and powerlevel (in great numbers) in order to seek the last remaining location for any really interesting content whatsoever...
PvP.
3 - The PvP game, and the loss of the customer base.
Once PvP gets into swing, and people in droves are seeking that content, the forums are going to light up with balance issues AGAIN. Whereas before people whined endlessly about Blasters as if what they were doing was ruining their game play, just wait and see what the Villain does to these same people who were catered-to (and therefore still exist in the playerbase).
If the road to correction of these balance issues is maintained, and the methods agreed upon previously are used, then you can expect several weeks of nothing but nerfing.
Some people like to spout off that nerfing corrects imbalances, and therefore is good for the game. This has never been true, but has always been the preferred method of post-release game management for a number of reasons we don't need to get into. Suffice it to say, in a game lacking content, and perhaps the ONE game that has the LEAST content of any game considered an MMO in the history of the genre, nerfing serves ONLY to remove additional content in the game play.
April through June of 2006 will see a mass exodus from this product as a result, and only the core community will remain by the beginning of July. This all assumes CoV is released before Christmas of 2005.
THIS is the point where the management is going to wonder what happened to them.
Strangely enough, these people have been making these same errors in judgment over and over again since the dawn of the MMO, and yet the next guy makes the SAME ERRORS. It's as if nobody is ever paying attention to the failures of the other guy. The above predictions are based on my 8 year experience in the genre. With only a couple exceptions, this same process of failure has been realized by every development team and product of the genre. And yet, they cling to it like tights on an SS tanker, as if it won't happen to THEM. After all, they are better than the last guy and therefore immune to the ramifications of their decisions.
It's a matter of arrogance really. Each one has realized at least a minimal success rate, and they let themselves relax in the knowledge that people love them today, and they therefore can do no wrong. Mark my words, like it has done every time in the past, it will come back to haunt them in the end.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Amen brother keep preaching. You echo my conclusions and feelings too. Although I would add that part of the problem isn't only arrogance, but fear. Fear of trying somethiong new and failing, failing to meet quality expectations, butt also deadlines made by producers. It's going to take a monumental change however for there ever to be a shift in the current paradigm. I'm hoping MMOcenter might make some big waves...they have some inspirational ideas about MMOG design not only in game play, but in development and pricing.
COH is a dying game. Emmert has managed to take a good game directed be the previous developer Max and shoot it dead in a year.
In both SGs I am in, they are both DEAD. My first SG has nobody that even bother to log in since 245 days or something like that, and if we exclude me and that guys at 245 days, they are all around 400 days.
The second SG is dead now, nobody log in for 30-150 days beside me. That is pretty much a downward spiral IMO.
(Me I only log in when there is a 5 free days or something like that, I see the devastation in my friend list and in the SG...I never see anyone online in any of my friend list, that is not helping the game at all)
Too many criticals mistakes for what little goods the expansion bring in.
Sanctus, you are a Saint to believe in Cryptic like that. Wepps is right on target! A game always have a few supporters against everything, and in the case of CoH, Sanctus, you are an unyielding supporter and saddly, peoples like you may blind Cryptic and they may think the game improve...while in fact, it is a downward spiral, like it or not.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Perhaps the most compelling argument to no longer play this nerf-a-patch game is simply that, if you want to play a game where you feel like a SUPERHERO, this is NOT the game.
~ Ancient Membership ~
I can only speak from my experience and related what the people I play with feel. I can only related that I am still having a lot of fun with the people I play with. I rarely solo and I've mentioned that I can only speak from a viewpoint as a casual/grouping person. I'm rarely in pick up groups. The people I group with, I know their play style. Occasionally we will bring a pick up person to round out the group. I5 is live, and I'm still having fun.
Mentions of "deserted SG" have been posted. I offer an invitation to our SG. http://www.defendersofparagon.com Many SG fall apart because lack of communication. Pick up SG always fail. Themed SG can hold on, but only if they have a centralized forum to keep people together. Also, the SG list needs to stay maintained. Our SG has a 30 day policy, if you exceed 30 days. You are removed, but I send an offline tell to those who have been removed..
Reviewing the posts on my SG forum, no one is DOOOOM posting.
I'll say before and I'll say again. Play what you have fun playing. If it's not fun, move on. But please...drop the drama. If your going to critique, then back up your arguments and offer alternatives (how would you fix it). This Philosophy I apply to any game I'm playing.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Well like the above poster I can only speak from my experience of COH so here goes...
I started playing the day of the EU launch, it was my first ever MMO and I loved it. It was easy to get into, the character customisation was superb and I had a blast - literally, since my first toon was a blaster
Joined a SG on my 2nd day and the game really became fun. Retired my blaster at level 15, made a rad/rad defender and never looked back.
And so it continued for a few months having fun, doing missions and the occassional TF and then I4 was accounced and I thought "Great! New missions, enemies and areas to play in" - boy was I wrong! What did I4 bring? Well let's see...
New costume options - great idea but not really enough new items and the majority were manga/anime inspired (don't get me wrong, I like manga and anime but the new costumes just didn't do it for me)
New missions - erm no.
New enemies - erm no to that too. Oh, unless you count the voids/quantums. And since my rad/rad had hit 50 at this stage and I was playing a warshade I did count them - before every single battle!
New areas - erm no yet again. Oh wait! How could I forget the Arena!
Ah, I can still hear the wind howling through the deserted lobbies as the tumbleweed rolled past my feet. The Arena was shoe-horned into COH to pave the way for COV and allow the devs to use us as guinea-pigs to test their new PVP code.
Then there was the nerfs - with regen howling the most loudly, and lest we forget, the bugs. Having never played an MMO before and never experienced an update I was quite unprepared for the sheer number of glaringly obvious bugs there were in I4, my particular favourite being the upright corpses since quite a few of a warshades powers are based off using corpses I found that one particularly annoying although I did actually lose count of the number of bugs I logged with the devs (and yes I had also logged the same bugs over a month earlier on the test server).
So I4 = big disappointment. But I still kept playing in the misguided belief that the devs would learn from their mistakes, fix the problems with I4 and blow us away with I5. Oh dear.
By the time I5 was announced I was well and truly bored with COH. I'd gotten my WS to the late 30s by doing basically all of the same missions again that I'd done with my defender and had gotten an Ill/Kin controller to 35, again doing the exact same boring, repetitive missions again and again. I had actually started playing WoW at that stage but had left my subscription active, still in vain hope that I5 would bring something new to my first mmo love.
Well I read the release notes for I5 on the test-server with rapidly increasing incredulity - they could not be serious. Carpet nerf-bombing with virtually no AT untouched - tanks and controllers probably being hit hardest, followed by regen scrappers yet again. And please, don't mention the "double damage when held" olive branch held out to controllers after our holding ability had been cut by 75% and our pets castrated. I, and any other controller I knew, had rolled a troller for one purpose - to control. Not to deal damage - at least not until after level 32 when we got our reward for 32 levels of being very weak compared to other ATs.
But wait, they actually included some new content in I5 - great! Oh wait, it's for around level 30 iirc. Well that makes sense, cos there's not enough content around that level already - not! What about content for level 50s so we could actually dust off our first toons and have a bit of fun with them again? Erm no. So if you want to see the new content you're gonna have to roll a new toon. Well at least there's some new powersets to choose from, but sadly it was all too little too late for me.
I did check out I5 on the test-server and hated it. The supression noise when an Illusion controller used a power while running SI being my all time favourite "worst sound ever" - honestly, it was enough to make your ears bleed. And why give us the ability to use powers while running SI in I4 only to take it away again in I5? The new powersets were ok but nothing to get excited about. And yes I know they eased off on some of the changes/nerfs a little due to the overwhelming outcry for the playerbase, but I'm quite frankly of the opinion that a lot of these changes were never meant to go ahead in their originally announced form but were rather a PR tool so the devs could appear to be listening to us. And if that makes me sound a little paranoid then so be it - that's what 5 months of watching a game that you adored gradually turned into something you hated can do to you
Oh and I5 has not only introduced new bugs but failed to fix some that I4 and even I3 introduced - hooray for quality control!
So the upshot of all this and the point of this incredibly long post (apologies, but when I start there's generally no stopping me and if you've actually read this far then congratulations, you've probably got a lot more patience than I) is this:
(I4 = disappointment) + (I5 = BIG disappointment) = cancelled subscription.
As for CoV, I'll probably try out the beta since I should qualify for an invite, but doubt very much if I'll purchase the retail as it will probably go the same was as CoH did. Which is a shame since at I3 CoH was a fantastic game, it's just a pity they didn't realise that at the time and build on what they had instead of destroying it utterly.
Nuclea, you have hit the proverbial nail right on the head. My entire SG quit CoH between I4 and I5, going from around 45 active members to 0 right before I5 released. I wasn't actually present, having already cancelled my subscription, but we were a pretty tight knit group in my SG and they kept sending me updates on their Test server experiences right up until the bitter end.
I3 was the golden issue for CoH; they could and should have focused entirely on content, new archetypes and new powersets from that point on. My entire SG has pretty much agreed that I3 was the crowning glory of CoH.
One of the biggest mistakes any MMO can make is to reduce the effectiveness of powersets after release so that they match other powersets. If your testing didn't show that a specific powerset was incongruent with the effectiveness of all powersets across the board, you raise the weaker powersets to match, IF that is the intent of your game.
Some powersets simply aren't designed to perform in the same manner as others. You would never expect a support character to deal damage on par with a combat character.
Another mistake is to change powers based on how they react in PvP. You have to give your players the benefit of the doubt that they are smart enough to figure out how to make their character effective against other players, without tampering with core powers they have been using for months... or even years. Then you have to give them the opportunity to re-train and make the changes they feel they need to make to be competitive in PvP.
If they rolled back to the power and rule sets of I3 with the new content and archetypes of I5 AND focused solely on new content, archetypes and powers, I would re-subscribe in a minute.
One thing I keep hearing on the official boards (yes, I check back from time to time) that is utterly ridiculous is that people opposed to the changes in I4 and I5 just didn't want to be challenged. That is complete baloney.
My main was a Force Field / Dark Blast defender and minus prodigious help from my SG at the lower levels, he was pretty much solo'd from level 28 to 50. From the point the difficulty slider was instituted, my defender took every mission on Invincible. It was VERY difficult. I cannot see that anyone would describe an FF/DB defender being any kind of powerhouse. It was a constant challenge.
That is completely different than changing how base powers that I had been using for a year worked. It's like being told that now that you are 40 years old and have been speaking English your entire life, they are going to change the textbooks to Persian Farsi tomorrow.
The short answer is, it's not fun. And that really is a pity.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
I have zero problems with Issue 5 and the changes.
I have not read this entire thread.
I completed Cavern of Trans today for the very first time in my 5-6 months of playing.
Fire Tanks needed every nerf they got.
I think more nerfs are needed in game, middle end content is to easy, I'm level 32 Healer my highest char, and Heroic difficulty level is boring and to easy for any group I am with. Get in groups with your missions set on Heroic they do not get picked.
Powerlevelling should never be a part of any game no matter the circumstance. However I did feel bad that the lvl 11 that teamed with me on a lvl 31 mission was only getting 7 exp he told me. He was only teamed with me because before that I exempted down to help him do a Frostfire mission in a big team, then he helped me get the igneous badge by luring up the bosses while I pounded them, so I tried to help him work off his debt by seeing if hsi doing a mission my level would help.
Before I would be willing to take this game up again, it would need to grow some compelling solo content and a decent reason to engage in PvP combat. This game is crazy fun for about a month, but it get's stale fast.
In a superhero game, when I am fighting average thugs, I would expect to be able to wipe out masses of them with little effort, and be granted relatively little XP per kill. Only the occaisional boss or sub-boss group should give me a protracted battle (and those should give me relatively more XP). That's because I'm a superhero, I have powers and abilities far beyond those of a normal human.
Instead, the developers of this game have taken the opposite approach. They have consistently nerfed power sets so that battles even with "cannon fodder" minions take more planning and strategy (and take longer in general). They have also upped the XP that you get per kill.
This all makes sense for typical MMOPRG. But in a superhero MMOPRG it just doesn't feel right. The average comic book superhero does not get beat with an inch of their lives fighting everyday foes. Most foes they go up against don't really have prayer. In many comic story arcs, the real challenge for the hero tends to be figureing out what is going on, identifying their true foe, and choosing the right course of action. Of course since all of our missions are "go to location X and kill X" you don't really get much sense of that.
OK, I think I'm rambling . . . .
Long story short, this game just doesn't make me feel like superhero. The look and the power sets are right. However, the effects that my powers have on my oppenents aren't. Most powers just "feel" rather weak and innefectual, because most of the foes you go up againts are pretty tough. A wizard type in EQ, WoW, or DAoC "feels" a lot more powerful than a blaster does in this game (to me at least). That's just wrong.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I'm starting to think the people whining/crying/complaining/moaning over i5 have not actually played the game since the update went live.
1) My blaster hasn't eaten dust once since i5 went live - and has even soloed some missions (he's lvl 22 and soloing was something I gave up on after hitting lvl 10)
2) My defender was lvl 26 when i5 went live... he'd been lvl 26 for a long time because I stopped playing him when the experience bar stopped moving. Thanks to the update he is now lvl 27.
3) My scrapper can still out damage a blaster, so I don't understand comments like the one about "why should I play a scapper instead of a blaster" in regards to the changes made to the game with i5. In fact, the teams I've been on that had at least one scrapper have gone through missions faster than teams without a scrapper.
4) No more herding. Who cares... Prior to i5 when a tank would herd a ton of monsters, it took what seemed like forever to kill them all off because everyone would keep running out of endurance and blues and would kneel to rest while the tank held the aggro. Personally I think the herding issue is a very small one. I can see the benefits when street hunting, but I also see the downslide to that... Other players that are street hunting A) can actually find something to hunt now and
don't have to worry about a herd gone wrong and their group being trained and killed anymore. The good and the bad to the changes to herding cancel each other out.
5)The bottom line is this... I have played the other major mmorpg games out there and City of Heroes is the most fun. So if you don't like it, try playing SOLITAIRE. It comes with any version of Windows - you can solo and don't have to worry about anyone nerfing anything.
'nuff said.
I have to disagree with you whiners.
Soloing is a option, if your too idiotic to realize that....... Regen still works like it should, my MA/regen scrapper can still solo, i have to be a bit more careful, i can still kill whites/yellows/oranges/purple bosses solo. I don't know what your complaining about... me and a gravity/empathy(i believe) controller even took down a AV last night at the end of a storyline.... 2 people taking down a arch villain........
I don't know where you fools got your idea of super heroes... I have never once seen a super hero comic, cartoon or movie, where the hero could just stand there and take hits for 50 hours and never die(tankers anyone?). Tankers were not heroes, they were gods. Now that your not on "insta win" your pissed. And i know ALOT of invuln tankers who are still really strong and do not complain.
The problem is people went witht their FoTM classes slotted them and enhanced them so theyd be godly and put the entire game on "Easy mode" and then turned up the difficulty to get a challenge. Guess what? The difficulty slider wasnt to "speed up leveling" it was to allow you to test your characters skill and try harder foes, harder difficulties were meant to be HARD.
Solo is still possible, and its always been possible. But if your specd for grouping.... then you can't complain about not being able to solo. And hell finding teams isn't even hard! my scrapper gets 10 tells in 8 hours all for grouping, hell you can even sidekick people 10 levels lower and take em with you! It's not hard to get people to play with!
You get debt alot more now? Guess what? DONT DIE! learn to play your class, my friend dies all the time, because he just runs into mobs like a retard and is like wtf happend! My blaster can take down 2-3 = level mobs before they even get into melee range. My defender(gimpy trick arrow/archery ha) can take down mobs of 6-8 solo if i play smart. LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS
And guess what? The reason why many people get bored is because they rush to 50 and are like wtf why? I still love my regen scrapper and I've had him since issue 2, sure hes taken some hits, but hes still my favorite character. My controller friend(who I've played with since then) still loves his character. My tanker friends, my katana/sr scrapper friend, my claw/sr scrapper friend, we still solo, we still group, we still love the game.
My scrapper can take down minions up to 2 levels higher down in 2 kicks. I got a aoe spin which knocks down enemies, which is extremely valuable for soloing, 4 = level minions usually wont even get up after the spin.
Red bosses are a challenge, but guess what THEY SHOULD BE! Heck even use insp in combat, i always have extra insps around which i use alot and it makes it easier stop. 2 bosses can mean death to my scrapper, Going through a train mission with 2 other people i could solo a mob with a boss a lieu and 6 minions. the game is FUN and CHALLENGING.
God If you weren't too busy complaining maybe youd be smart enough to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be played. In my honest opinion and my entire group of friends issue 5 improved the game.
Sure you can solo. It's just slow and boring as heck compared to grouping. Don't get me wrong, I love grouping in this game. It has pretty much the best group PvE battles of any game I can think of (despite the fact that it is balanced more like a fantasy MMORPG than a Superhero MMOPRG in my mind).
It's just that that's really all it has going. Lot's of other games have fun group, solo, and PvP experiences. Why shouldn't CoH? I'm hoping that CoV will improve things enough that I can justify fireing up my account again (it runs out in about three days), but I am honestly skeptical of the CoH Devs after I5.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Game over for me.
I have 1500 hours of play on my primary, and with each new patch, he becomes weaker, no matter how many lvl 53's I farm i cannot rebalance the nerfing.
The longer I play the weaker I become. This is the opposite of any known RPG I wish to play.
Having read a few posts I tuely beieved that the regen nerfs would make no particular difference to my style of play and enjoyment. How wrong i was.
Unfortunately, the nerfing and the point blank refusal of technical support to adjust my Badges top correctly display all the badges I have earned, have jaded my opinion of this game just a little too far.
Prior to the update the game was suffering from lack of population, and the patch has served to upset the bulk of those remaining.
I whole heartedly agree about the development and the support staff beleiving they are too good to listen to their clientele's wishs. They seem to have no grasp of what it is to be in a service industry.
The absolute repeated refusal of Tech support to edit 5 integers in my save file from 0 to 1, over a series of 30 responses, each one taking longer than the job would, persuaded me to revoke all my previous payments through Visa.
I paid for the service. They didn't provide it. Now I have unpaid them.
I don't forsee buying any expansion packs. I had considered this a certainty before the last update but now I am too jaded and enjoying other games instead.
The changes to the game in the last patch arguably may or may not create a better gaming enviroment for new players. Unfortunatley the game needs a criticl mass of players to be appealing and upsetting you existing subscribers is a very risky business move. 5 of the people I was playing COH with before I5 are now playing inm the same Warcraft server as me.
I still see just as many if not more players, the before. Everyone calling doom over issue 5 is either highly mistaken, or just frankly trying to justify their reasons for quitting.
I see people in game complaining about things, such as tanker nerfs, or crashes(there is 1 crash which you can actually keep playing during only without sound, really annoying but only happened to me once). A few builds got nerfed, (Regen isn't one, and if you claim it is you either really didn't slot yourself right, or your trying to fight things much higher then yourself), but they don't actually play nerfed during play. Tankers can still tank, Scrappers can still scrap, blasters can still blast, defenders can still... do things they can do, and controllers can still control.
In a group last night fighting carnies, me being the highest, they were +2 to me, and then everyone else was was about 1-3 levels lower then me. And We could still take down mobs of 10 or so including 2 bosses multiple lieus and minions, even taking down multiple mobs at once from a mistake someone made. Then moving on to malta with the same team, they were 3 levels higher then me, and we gave them a even harder beating then carnies. Do you think you should be able to take the entire map at once?......
Like i said, every class still performs well. You may have to play different besides your herding, and just running into mobs and spamming buttons.
When tankers could herd a entire mission map and have your team attack it untill they run out of end, rest and then attack again.......you know something was wrong, and something had to be done. I personally don't play with herders, they may still can... And if they do, i hope tankers get nerfed again.
And you think WoW won't be nerfing? It's part of every mmorpg, 1.7 hunters get nerfed, anyone who says they don't is a liar liar pants on fire. Meanwhile classes that don't actually need a buff are getting buffed... rogues and paladins(yes i know they lack dps.... but thats how it should be)
I agree with Bladin...
It's not fun to most ppl if you have "god-mode" on all the time... I think issue 5 was a good update, and it helps out balancing for pvp also...
I've seen ppl always complaing about the lack of pvp... How fun would pvp be if noone can kill eachother...
I play on Union server.
The place is a ghost town.
Outside of prime time hours there are not enough players of similar level to make even 1 decent team and there are rarely more than 5 people in Atlas Square.
nefing regen in I5 made a MASSIVE difference.
Post I4, the problem with regen is not soloing, it is grouping.
in an 8 man team, a mob is liable to instakill you. You have no resistences capable of saving you from the raw damage output.
Solutions to this include killing enough enemy in the first strike to lower their damage output to a rate survivable for long enough to click greens.
In I5 instant healing became a click power.
In a group of 30 people I fought 2 giant montsers. By agreement the gang all focused on 1 gm at a time.
I clicked my new clickable instant healing and waded in. By the time the first giant monster was down to 2/3 health it had worn off. My healing powers were now equivalent with that of any lvl 20-25 regener. I sat out the rest of the fight.
In fact, a bit later on sitting on a roof on the otherside of the map, i noticed it had not yet rechgarged. I estimate for every 60 secs of fighting I get a 5 minute cooldown.
The reason I originally chose regen, is that it matchs my patience. I wanted a power that would allow me to keep up the pace of battle. No long waits between fights healing up.
Perhaps, as you say, I could slot it different.
I could remove the 5 heals and replace them with recharge rate.
But then the instant healing, that was only just keeping me a live if iIpressed all of my buttons in the exact attack sequence needed to kill enough of those mobs members in an 8 man team to survive, would no longer have the same already too small healing powers.
You say scrappers can still scrap? Mine can't. He is now a blaster. He sits at the back with ranged attacks, or more often, plays as exemp in teams < level 20 where he can actively contribute and pull his weight within the team.
As a new player to WOW any nerfing won't affect me. Neither have I noticed any shortage of players. The community is 4 million strong. You might also notice that any nerfs you have mentioned are rather small compared to those experienced in I5.
If Warcraft had an already beleagured population and then chose to annoy over 2/3's of it's playerbase by reducing their powers, it would also be main a mistake. I play a lot of MMorpgs not just CoH and WoW, I've seen many nerfs, we could discuss them all if you like, seems like a red herring though. What WoW may or may not be doing in game does not affect peoples enjoyment of I5 in COH.
As for the herding in CoH being wrong, I am inclined to agree. However there are more suitable ways of fixing this. Increased Ai's, new monsters that can break the effects of taunt. A simple cap on taunt numbers. Or like Peacebringer and Warshades, mobs damage powers could simply increase with each friendly close to them.
Similarly regen powers could be made to do the same, solving the too powerful in small groups, faceplanters in large issues.
The protal area could be made a lvl 40 restricted area.
BUT NO. In their wisdom they decided make across the boards nerfs alienating more customers at a critical time. the game may still be playable, there may still be a big enough population to find a team, but i's over the hill now. Downhill all the way.
It's been a really great game, but now is the time to retire gracefully instead of riding it on to the slow and bitter end.
You say that complaining about I5 is simply a way of justifying quitting COH.
I quit because of the server populations.
I5 isn't the reason I stopped playing, it's the reason I won't be buying the expansion.
Baff,American servers have a decent amount of people...Maybe European servers should merge if there's really that little amount of ppl as u say(I5 may not be the only reason people are gone if COV testing is going on over there)...
Your solutions to the problem, really only causes more problems for tankers and doesnt solve the balance between classes for pvp
Also, if u want to tank more, u could always use pool powers like the fighting pool power...If you're fighting something extremely difficult, that's not where a scrapper should be, tankers are meant to tank powerful groups...Or Defenders can buff/debuff or heal also...If u fight something strong, get a good group...Scrappers can tank moderate groups at most...
The thing is, scrappers are kind of the inbetween of tankers and blasters...However they're really closer to blasters (Scrappers = melee blasters)...If Scrappers were able to tank ultra powerful foes, tankers would have no use...
I agree about European servers merging. I think it has come that time for this game. I'm surprised to hear it is not the same on the American servers, the game has been running much longer over there.
Balance between clases for pvp, has no reason to affect PvE whatsoever. Most of us don't want to play PvP at all ever. Plenty of people do, but most do not. The needs of the few do not outweigh the needs of the many. Nor in this particular case do they need. Both requirements can easily be met without affecting the other.
They may use two entirely seperate combat systems if they so wish. (Although I do admit the thought of a tank herding a load of scrappers around is a funny one).
Scrappers are frontline fighters. They should be able to survive on the frontline. They have mainly melee attacks so they must be able to operate in a melee enviroment. Blasters are Artillery and may operate more safely from behind the lines. A tank should, and is capable of protecting the team from multiple targets, while a scrapper is limited to only 1. I'm not attempting to tell you that formerly pre I4 my regen scrapper could tank mobs or even multiple mobs, he never could. He could however quite often survive in mobs long enough to eat a respite. More often than not he no longer can.
Taking fighting pool, Tough and Weave, comes at a cost of three other powers. The idea of removing 3 regeneration powers and replacing them with pool powers in order to make regeneration an effective powerpool is not well thought out (to say the least). But this is what the regen power has been reduced to. It's only a capable powerpool if you don't use it.
There is more to the game for myself than min/max reslotting to achieve ultimate power in either PvP or PvE. It is a pleasure to create a superhero with a theme and a rationale. I have no desire to redesign him every two months. It annoys me. It is not how I wish to play my game. Especially when each of the two times this has been forced upon me it has resulted in a reduced effectiveness in the games I enjoy.
Everyone must have a job to do when fighting something difficult. Scrappers included. Everyone should be there. It is a team game. Not just the tank or the controller. Watching four tanks around an AV in a state of stalemate is funny. Watching blasters constantly faceplant at every mob because those same tanks won't taunt is frustrating for me also.
Ultimately there are as many different styles of play and tactics as there are players and teams. There is no "one way" to play a scrapper. There is nothing he "should" be doing except perhaps gaining enjoyment. It is not for me to tell you what makes a decent team. I can only share with you, my own experiences and views, and what it is that I enjoy/have enjoyed about the game.
yea, someone probably needs to contact European service provider about merging...On the American side, the population has been increasing
Anyways, u can take a look at this http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3672783&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#3672783 (look between the .5-.75 acc as that will be most of the foes you'd be fighting)
It shows that regen is the best, if not one of the best, power set to get as a scrapper... As for getting weave and tough, it'll allow u to be more defensive, (looked at regen powerset, all of them are quite great except "Revive" isnt that necessary... "Reconstruction" may not be too much of a necessity also) Anyways, you could always remove more powers from your attack powersets rather than from your regen powerset for weave or tough though...Anyways, the only thing I'd have to disagree with you here is about the regen set being useless, it's really good compared to all the other powersets of the scrappers as shown on the charts...
Anyways, defenders/controllers that can buff your def/resist would help your build the most... While the other powerset of scrappers match more with empathy/(healing) def/controllers...
...And to everyone else that complains about this game...I seem to notice that you've played for a LONG time...Even I got bored after 2-3 months...Take a break, I took a break for a year before I got back and enjoyed it again...I don't think any mmorpg is able to keep the updates going at the same pace that people play (unless it's extremely hard to level like in lineage2
) , and COH is a fast leveling game compared to any other mmorpgs... You gotta get bored sometimes of something over and over, people get bored of WOW too ya know...