“Worldwide, EA is doing the publishing and the marketing and distribution for the game, BioWare is still doing all the online, community development along with all development of the game, so really, nothing has changed on that front at all,” said Muzyka. “Lucasfilm is still very much involved as a collaborative partner, licenser, and is collaborating with us on the marketing and the design of the game, so really it’s a great partnership.
Whoever made the decision to make this a shallow game that lacked any sort of staying power is to blame. I have to say that was EA, since BW is not known for making shallow games. I could be wrong, but I very much doubt it. Compare DA to DA2. There is an enormous difference in quality and depth.
The banks, the people, too much money in the world.
Before the crisis a lot of people bought a lot of not so good game, hoping from one to another, once the "new factor" was gone.
But hey !! Now everybody got to make it count, can't afford otherwise.
I think that EA is to blame but that only the present situation reveal it's flauws, if the financial crisis didn't happened then EA would still appeal to consumers/gamers by flashing stardust.
edit : Every action has a reaction, EA is gonna bite the dust, people ar changing and so is the world, just do buy crappy game anymore ok?
Considering Bioware is EA, a game developement subsidy owned and operated by EA inc, I would have to say EA...
Everyone can just let it go now...the answer has been given.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
The game is actually pretty damn good despite being a wow clone. What bugs me is if you go to teh swtor forums pre launch youll see every otehr post was asking and begging for them to make it just like wow. They give all of these idiots exactly what they asked for. Why they are complaining everywhere and leaving the game is ridiculous. The players are failing this game, not the devs.
Umm they are the same? EA bought BioWare for the name... period.
Pretty much
Bioware died when EA bought them.
SWTOR was made by a mix of Mythic, EA and Bioware developers, and EA was calling all the shots (actually EA marketing which these days decide also the game design of every game.........and you can see the results)
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
What influences did they have on the game design? I imagine there had to be some, but I have serious doubts that it supercedes Bioware's culpability.
The game is actually pretty damn good despite being a wow clone. What bugs me is if you go to teh swtor forums pre launch youll see every otehr post was asking and begging for them to make it just like wow. They give all of these idiots exactly what they asked for. Why they are complaining everywhere and leaving the game is ridiculous. The players are failing this game, not the devs.
lol
nobody asked for a WoW clone. The players aren't failing SW:TOR. Thats madness to believe that.
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
Highly doubt LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre Wow-clone.
The game is actually pretty damn good despite being a wow clone. What bugs me is if you go to teh swtor forums pre launch youll see every otehr post was asking and begging for them to make it just like wow. They give all of these idiots exactly what they asked for. Why they are complaining everywhere and leaving the game is ridiculous. The players are failing this game, not the devs.
lol
nobody asked for a WoW clone. The players aren't failing SW:TOR. Thats madness to believe that.
Apparently you weren't around the swtor forums pre launch when every otehr post was asking for wow type systems. It seemed almost every post was something to do with ''please make this game like wow''.
The game is actually pretty damn good despite being a wow clone. What bugs me is if you go to teh swtor forums pre launch youll see every otehr post was asking and begging for them to make it just like wow. They give all of these idiots exactly what they asked for. Why they are complaining everywhere and leaving the game is ridiculous. The players are failing this game, not the devs.
The people that wanted it to be similar to WoW got burned because it's like WoW, but worse.
You're right. I didn't visit those forums very often.
They seemed to be rife with the minds of youth....
Yeah unfortunately their forums were ridiculous several months before and up to launch. I had stopped visiting them altogether by that point. Was nothing but people wanting to argue about it being a wow clone and posts like ''this is not swg''.
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
Highly doubt LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre Wow-clone.
Dude, they forced Sony to turn SWG into a "mediocre WoW clone.". Its EXACTLY what they forced Bioware to do.
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
Highly doubt LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre Wow-clone.
Dude, they forced Sony to turn SWG into a "mediocre WoW clone.". Its EXACTLY what they forced Bioware to do.
There was evidence that was true with SWG. Haven't seen any for TOR.
The real people to blame are the collective suits and money men who insisted on the most conservative and "low risk" choices at all levels of game development.
The answer to every question about design/functionality was "copy WoW."
For some businesses, it pays to copy the successful competition, only to do what they did better and more effeciently. That is the story of most corporate business models and what is taught in the big business schools.
Problem is, in highly creative industries like entertainment, as opposed to other more conventional ones, that strategy does not work.
And yet, the executives of the big entertainment product companies, went to the same business schools as the ones who run the successful conventional corporations. But the same skills and strategies that help you run a company like Coca-cola or Exxon well, not only don't help, but actively hurt in an industry like MMOs and computer games.
What we have is EA/BW being run by people who think they can copy the industry's most successful model, as if it were a burger chain, and expect the same results. And further, like many conventional businesses, their perceived solution to not selling enough units and falling subscribership is more marketing, not improving the product more creatively (because how can you manage that with a strict corporate structure?).
Bottom line is that game companies are no longer run by "game guys" like they were in the "old days", they are run by conventionally trained, accountant heavy, executives that would be better off running a company making cars or televisions than MMO/computer games.
And with TOR, we have a prime example of what inflexible, unsuited executive thought ends up with.
LucasArts is a strict parent company with the license of their beloved Star Wars. They lay down heavy ground rules on their delusional "vision" of what the game being made must be like.
And its up to the developer that they hire the contract out to, to deal with these strict guidelines.
I'm not saying Bioware(EA) didn't also drop the ball, but I am saying that LucasArts designed the vision of how said ball should look.
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
Highly doubt LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre Wow-clone.
Dude, they forced Sony to turn SWG into a "mediocre WoW clone.". Its EXACTLY what they forced Bioware to do.
There was evidence that was true with SWG. Haven't seen any for TOR.
Dont bother, when it comes to SWG everyone blames everyone else.
Those, like me who know it was Raph Koster believe so because of his history of taking all credit and passing all blame onto others for all 3 MMORPGs he worked on where members of his own teams stated as much.
Those that blame Sony do so because Raph Koster stated he was forced out by Sony who took over...and also by those that say its because Raph Koster stated he left SWG because he didnt like what Sony wanted to do with the game...he went back and forth between those two statements until Sony placed him at the head of EQ2...and then he shut up about it.
Then there are those who blame LA...because Sony apparently has no history of royally screwing up the MMOs in their hands...lol...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
LucasArts is a strict parent company with the license of their beloved Star Wars. They lay down heavy ground rules on their delusional "vision" of what the game being made must be like.
And its up to the developer that they hire the contract out to, to deal with these strict guidelines.
I'm not saying Bioware(EA) didn't also drop the ball, but I am saying that LucasArts designed the vision of how said ball should look.
And do you have any evidence LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre WoW-clone.
Even when they supposedly 'forced' SOE to implement the NGE the decision was mutual among the producers at both SOE and Lucasarts. SWG was bleeding subscriptions (10,000+ per month) and SOE was on the verge of losing the Star Wars license.
LucasArts is a strict parent company with the license of their beloved Star Wars. They lay down heavy ground rules on their delusional "vision" of what the game being made must be like.
And its up to the developer that they hire the contract out to, to deal with these strict guidelines.
I'm not saying Bioware(EA) didn't also drop the ball, but I am saying that LucasArts designed the vision of how said ball should look.
I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.
ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.
/
This. Any other expectation from BW was either niave or clouded by wishful thinking.
I suspect that they will have significant diificulties correcting the flaws in the game. The main reason being game design choice. It doesn't mean, they can't save the game or bring back the population . It's a question of how intent are they on making the changes and adjustments necessary to do so. There is still a basis for solid MMO here and it's still early in it's evolution. It should prove interesting to obverse.
ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.
/
This. Any other expectation from BW was either niave or clouded by wishful thinking.
I suspect that they will have significant diificulties correcting the flaws in the game. The main reason being game design choice. It doesn't mean, they can't save the game or bring back the population . It's a question of how intent are they on making the changes and adjustments necessary to do so. There is still a basis for solid MMO here and it's still early in it's evolution. It should prove interesting to obverse.
Early in it's evolution or not, this game attracted huge investment and those investors want to see a return.
It's obvious at this point that their investment is shaky at the least. I can't imagine for one minute that they or anyone else would risk further investment, which is fundamental in getting the game back on it's feet.
With the recent layoffs, it appears that they are already cutting their losses, making any 'come-back' attempt farcicle.
To stand any chance at all, the game needs massive re-development, double the content and a huge marketing budget to entice players back.
There is no Bioware anymore. But I never thought BW was really capable of truly making an MMORPG properly either. They are just rather lacking in certain areas they really need to make it go right. I am sure some of the major players that made the real BW good though they could just have EA through people at the problem it would turn out ok. But that mentality is exactly why I never thought BW was really the studio to pull it off.
Some of the people who were important in the good Bioware games worked on this game and you can see the effects of it. But that is not the same thing. Especially not in a huge undertaking like an MMO.
But either way BW doesn't exist anymore. Don't fool yourselves thinking that because some of the major guys are around that they somehow trump the culture. They don't, not even close. In fact its a 1 in 1000 person who can even come close to being only somewhat affected by the subtle but powerful influences of any culture, macro-culture or micro-culture and certainly can't resist protoculture.
Comments
LA?
http://www.vg247.com/2010/11/30/swtor-nothing-has-changed-regarding-the-ea-bioware-and-lucasarts-partnership-says-muzyka/
“Worldwide, EA is doing the publishing and the marketing and distribution for the game, BioWare is still doing all the online, community development along with all development of the game, so really, nothing has changed on that front at all,” said Muzyka. “Lucasfilm is still very much involved as a collaborative partner, licenser, and is collaborating with us on the marketing and the design of the game, so really it’s a great partnership.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Whoever made the decision to make this a shallow game that lacked any sort of staying power is to blame. I have to say that was EA, since BW is not known for making shallow games. I could be wrong, but I very much doubt it. Compare DA to DA2. There is an enormous difference in quality and depth.
Considering Bioware is EA, a game developement subsidy owned and operated by EA inc, I would have to say EA...
Nice link
Back to whom to blame
But it's way of topic
The banks, the people, too much money in the world.
Before the crisis a lot of people bought a lot of not so good game, hoping from one to another, once the "new factor" was gone.
But hey !! Now everybody got to make it count, can't afford otherwise.
I think that EA is to blame but that only the present situation reveal it's flauws, if the financial crisis didn't happened then EA would still appeal to consumers/gamers by flashing stardust.
edit : Every action has a reaction, EA is gonna bite the dust, people ar changing and so is the world, just do buy crappy game anymore ok?
Diablow 3, it sucks ...
Everyone can just let it go now...the answer has been given.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I absolutely LOVE how LUCASARTS is yet again escaping blame for this game.
Just like they breezed on through the NGE and SOE...
Man, that company is the REASON for all of this and yet... nope... ya'll don't get on their asses for it. No sir-ee! You go after EA and Bioware alone.
The game is actually pretty damn good despite being a wow clone. What bugs me is if you go to teh swtor forums pre launch youll see every otehr post was asking and begging for them to make it just like wow. They give all of these idiots exactly what they asked for. Why they are complaining everywhere and leaving the game is ridiculous. The players are failing this game, not the devs.
Pretty much
Bioware died when EA bought them.
SWTOR was made by a mix of Mythic, EA and Bioware developers, and EA was calling all the shots (actually EA marketing which these days decide also the game design of every game.........and you can see the results)
What influences did they have on the game design? I imagine there had to be some, but I have serious doubts that it supercedes Bioware's culpability.
EDIT: not a fan of LA either.
lol
nobody asked for a WoW clone. The players aren't failing SW:TOR. Thats madness to believe that.
Highly doubt LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre Wow-clone.
Apparently you weren't around the swtor forums pre launch when every otehr post was asking for wow type systems. It seemed almost every post was something to do with ''please make this game like wow''.
The people that wanted it to be similar to WoW got burned because it's like WoW, but worse.
Less features.
Sloppier combat.
Worse raids.
Less classes.
Worse balance.
Worse PvP system.
More closed in with more zoning.
SWTOR was a WoW clone without the quality of WoW.
You're right. I didn't visit those forums very often.
They seemed to be rife with the minds of youth....
Yeah unfortunately their forums were ridiculous several months before and up to launch. I had stopped visiting them altogether by that point. Was nothing but people wanting to argue about it being a wow clone and posts like ''this is not swg''.
Dude, they forced Sony to turn SWG into a "mediocre WoW clone.". Its EXACTLY what they forced Bioware to do.
There was evidence that was true with SWG. Haven't seen any for TOR.
The real people to blame are the collective suits and money men who insisted on the most conservative and "low risk" choices at all levels of game development.
The answer to every question about design/functionality was "copy WoW."
For some businesses, it pays to copy the successful competition, only to do what they did better and more effeciently. That is the story of most corporate business models and what is taught in the big business schools.
Problem is, in highly creative industries like entertainment, as opposed to other more conventional ones, that strategy does not work.
And yet, the executives of the big entertainment product companies, went to the same business schools as the ones who run the successful conventional corporations. But the same skills and strategies that help you run a company like Coca-cola or Exxon well, not only don't help, but actively hurt in an industry like MMOs and computer games.
What we have is EA/BW being run by people who think they can copy the industry's most successful model, as if it were a burger chain, and expect the same results. And further, like many conventional businesses, their perceived solution to not selling enough units and falling subscribership is more marketing, not improving the product more creatively (because how can you manage that with a strict corporate structure?).
Bottom line is that game companies are no longer run by "game guys" like they were in the "old days", they are run by conventionally trained, accountant heavy, executives that would be better off running a company making cars or televisions than MMO/computer games.
And with TOR, we have a prime example of what inflexible, unsuited executive thought ends up with.
LucasArts is a strict parent company with the license of their beloved Star Wars. They lay down heavy ground rules on their delusional "vision" of what the game being made must be like.
And its up to the developer that they hire the contract out to, to deal with these strict guidelines.
I'm not saying Bioware(EA) didn't also drop the ball, but I am saying that LucasArts designed the vision of how said ball should look.
Dont bother, when it comes to SWG everyone blames everyone else.
Those, like me who know it was Raph Koster believe so because of his history of taking all credit and passing all blame onto others for all 3 MMORPGs he worked on where members of his own teams stated as much.
Those that blame Sony do so because Raph Koster stated he was forced out by Sony who took over...and also by those that say its because Raph Koster stated he left SWG because he didnt like what Sony wanted to do with the game...he went back and forth between those two statements until Sony placed him at the head of EQ2...and then he shut up about it.
Then there are those who blame LA...because Sony apparently has no history of royally screwing up the MMOs in their hands...lol...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
And do you have any evidence LA forced Bioware to make a mediocre WoW-clone.
Even when they supposedly 'forced' SOE to implement the NGE the decision was mutual among the producers at both SOE and Lucasarts. SWG was bleeding subscriptions (10,000+ per month) and SOE was on the verge of losing the Star Wars license.
I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.
/
This. Any other expectation from BW was either niave or clouded by wishful thinking.
I suspect that they will have significant diificulties correcting the flaws in the game. The main reason being game design choice. It doesn't mean, they can't save the game or bring back the population . It's a question of how intent are they on making the changes and adjustments necessary to do so. There is still a basis for solid MMO here and it's still early in it's evolution. It should prove interesting to obverse.
Early in it's evolution or not, this game attracted huge investment and those investors want to see a return.
It's obvious at this point that their investment is shaky at the least. I can't imagine for one minute that they or anyone else would risk further investment, which is fundamental in getting the game back on it's feet.
With the recent layoffs, it appears that they are already cutting their losses, making any 'come-back' attempt farcicle.
To stand any chance at all, the game needs massive re-development, double the content and a huge marketing budget to entice players back.
It's just not going to happen.
I feel this game has no other option but F2P.
There is no Bioware anymore. But I never thought BW was really capable of truly making an MMORPG properly either. They are just rather lacking in certain areas they really need to make it go right. I am sure some of the major players that made the real BW good though they could just have EA through people at the problem it would turn out ok. But that mentality is exactly why I never thought BW was really the studio to pull it off.
Some of the people who were important in the good Bioware games worked on this game and you can see the effects of it. But that is not the same thing. Especially not in a huge undertaking like an MMO.
But either way BW doesn't exist anymore. Don't fool yourselves thinking that because some of the major guys are around that they somehow trump the culture. They don't, not even close. In fact its a 1 in 1000 person who can even come close to being only somewhat affected by the subtle but powerful influences of any culture, macro-culture or micro-culture and certainly can't resist protoculture.