I agree the main problem has just been not enough content to keep the players interested. Unlike AC1 which has an abundance of content and lore/events AC2 just doesn't cut it. But Calandryll is right about making game sequels it's splitting up the fanbase which is not good for the game.
I agree the main problem has just been not enough content to keep the players interested. Unlike AC1 which has an abundance of content and lore/events AC2 just doesn't cut it. But Calandryll is right about making game sequels it's splitting up the fanbase which is not good for the game.
Originally posted by Ashenkhar C) They won't release the server for other people to host their own games. Why NOT? They have proven again that they could care less about their fans. Who is it going to hurt? It's not going to compete with legitimate servers, because they are turning those off. They just figure since they couldn't do it, they don't want anyone else to either.
It could hurt Turbine as a company if they were to release the server code. There's going to be a lot of proprietary information about building an MMO that's going to be contained in that source. Future competitors would be able to skip part of the learning curve when they attempt to build their own game. Turbine likely spent millions of dollars learning to solve certain problems. Why give someone the solution for free?
Not saying that it's a good thing (or even true in all cases), but it's the mindset that most companies have about their products.
Originally posted by EduardoASG MMORPG.com: What was the logic of releasing a new expansion pack, then promptly ending the game? Are you worried about a backlash from those who spent money on an upgrade that will soon be of no value? Jonathan Hanna: The expansion pack was meant as an attempt to bring more people in the game by getting AC2 back on store shelves. We advertised the game on the web and in magazines too. Unfortunately the expansion pack didnt really grow the game. -------------- This is as lamme as a company can go. They sold the expansion already knowing they would be closing the game soon.. just to get some last few coins before closing it. Thats Turbines style...
I don't think that's the case at all. They almost certainly spent more money developing the expansion than they got by selling it. Someone at Turbine screwed up and greatly overestimated the effect that the expansion would have on the size of their player base.
The game has to have been bleeding money for a while now, they really had to look at closing it.
Not giving something back to the people who bought an expansion for a doomed game is a mistake, though.
the game was very linear as far as progressing from one island or region to another,and thats what kills RPG's,the world,never felt like a world,it felt like playing Zelda or something with that kinda feel,had to play it to know what i mean.Quest system,although thought out,was never very creative,and after doing bigger quests ,you could'nt go back and enjoy the same ole same ole,it was never "Alive".And thats what Sony is struggling with now in EQ2,although EQ2 is faring better due to the massive amount of money behind it and updates that are keeping hardcore players minds off the games major faults,while they fix them behind the scenes,but its still gonna be a couple years before EQ2 feels "Alive".
One of the key lessons that we learned is the customer perception of sequels in the MMO space. They end up splitting your community more so than growing it. So they are counterproductive, unlike sequels in other game genres where they can be really successful.
That AC2 was a sequel had little - if anything - to do with its inability to attract players. There are a host of reasons it did not succeed, many of which have be touched on in this thread
The game was kicked out the door too soon, it was being continually rebalanced underneath the players, the combat design was uninspired, it was too easy to reach the "end" of the game, the critical early period of community development was destroyed by the inability to get the chat servers working, the console game style segregation of high level and low level players to specific continents further sabotaged community building, it took too long to get fresh content into the game, and the world felt "soulless."
I don't deny the AC1 players who expected "AC1+" negatively affected perception. It should have been possible to move beyond that and gain a fresh audience. AC1 was a hardcore Explorer game. AC2 was a lightweight Achiever game. The initial attempts to sell AC2 to the AC1 playerbase were doomed to fail.
Nevertheless, all of these design and operations issues I listed above would all remain true even if AC2 had been a fresh IP. No; AC2 failed not because AC1 fans rejected it, but because it couldn't create AC2 fans.
If this "sequels are counterproductive" is truly the best lesson Turbine has extracted from AC2, then it saddens me to say AC2 was ultimately an entirely fruitless endeavor. Not only did few enjoy the game, Turbine learned nothing from its failure.
Originally posted by stormwaltz The following is my personal opinion only.One of the key lessons that we learned is the customer perception of sequels in the MMO space. They end up splitting your community more so than growing it. So they are counterproductive, unlike sequels in other game genres where they can be really successful. That AC2 was a sequel had little - if anything - to do with its inability to attract players. There are a host of reasons it did not succeed, many of which have be touched on in this thread The game was kicked out the door too soon, it was being continually rebalanced underneath the players, the combat design was uninspired, it was too easy to reach the "end" of the game, the critical early period of community development was destroyed by the inability to get the chat servers working, the console game style segregation of high level and low level players to specific continents further sabotaged community building, it took too long to get fresh content into the game, and the world felt "soulless." I don't deny the AC1 players who expected "AC1+" negatively affected perception. It should have been possible to move beyond that and gain a fresh audience. AC1 was a hardcore Explorer game. AC2 was a lightweight Achiever game. The initial attempts to sell AC2 to the AC1 playerbase were doomed to fail. Nevertheless, all of these design and operations issues I listed above would all remain true even if AC2 had been a fresh IP. No; AC2 failed not because AC1 fans rejected it, but because it couldn't create AC2 fans. If this "sequels are counterproductive" is truly the best lesson Turbine has extracted from AC2, then it saddens me to say AC2 was ultimately an entirely fruitless endeavor. Not only did few enjoy the game, Turbine learned nothing from its failure.
A agree. If that was really their "take home lesson" from it all, I don't have very high hopes for the products Turbine is currently developing. Time will tell.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I was a big fan of AC2. That is until is was released. I was so disappointed. I'm kinda amazed they have been entrusted with 2 MMOs that are considered to be the grandfathers of modern fantasy games. I do not know why the market would have any confidence in Turbine. They completely failed on AC2, and I can not say AC1 was a smashing success, either.
Yup as usual the Devs will never admit they are the problem..
Its like "hey dont blame us, we just created, managed and ran the game, what the hell makes you think its our fault"
One of these days someone is going to listen to players and give us the game we want, rather than assuming they know whats best for us and then arguing they failed for "many reasons"
AC2 was "ok" thats all just "ok" and in a highly competetive environment "ok" isnt going to cut it anymore....
Next!......
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I have played AC2 from European Beta to September (August?) 2004. It was a heck of afun game, although it was my first MMORPG. I now know that AC1 has better lore and all that, but still, the Dereth of AC2 had a certain something *snaps his fingers* that I find lacking in other games. It has nothing to do with game mechanics, hero levels, skill systems. It's a feeling, the atmosphere.
I miss that in WoW, I miss that in EQ2, I miss that in Horizons, I miss that in every other MMORPG I've tried the past few years. Perhaps it's because AC2 was my first MMORPG, but still. Oh, and an other thing I really miss is playing my sage and hivekeeper. Those two characters (along with the healer) made it possible for me to enjoy the game for so many months.
Funny thing is I downloaded the trial version a few days before the announcement of the shutdown was made. Was ready to give it another go.
Ah well, AC2, I'll miss you.
Played: AC, AC2, Anarchy Online, AoC, D&D Online, Dark+Light, EQ2, EVE Online, FF XI, Guild Wars, Lineage II, Lotro, Ragnarok, Ryzom, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, WAR, WoW, etc. Also various MUDs
Best wishes to everyone at Turbine. Seems to be a tough thing to do to cancel such a large project. Hope all else goes well with their upcoming releases
I would have been suprised if Blizzard put AC2 in the public domain. First of all, it would be giving up a great deal of their intelectual property. It would be beneficial to thier compeditors and to them little good. Next, the game is too big to run on some player's PC, so it would take at least a small company to operate and maintain it. Finally, if Blizzard was loosing money maintaining it, who could afford to run it? Even with just one low population world, it would take over a thousand a month to operate and that's without anyone to provide player support. My guess is that it would take an investment of over $100K just to get a minimal world up and running.
Some players don't realize that these big MMOs are not like the old MUDs that you could just stick on a spare system in the back room. They take a lot of expensive equipment to run and technical people to keep them running.
Not meant as a flame but thats the worst argument you could come up with. Uninspired!, AC2 is quoted as having the best combat system in all games, it was the rest of the game that let it down.
Hmm sadly despite the Turbine grudgery around I am going to try dungeons and dragons. I mean there were elements that were good and original in ac2, and this I look forward to seeing in dungeons and dragons. Lotr has apparently taken more of the ac2 developers but it doesn't look so good.
Originally posted by nomadian Not meant as a flame but thats the worst argument you could come up with. Uninspired!, AC2 is quoted as having the best combat system in all games, it was the rest of the game that let it down.
I agree that the combat system was the most solid part of AC2. The concept was good. The execution was very meh. Consensus seems to be that in practice it didn't succeed in engaging the player's interest, requiring actual feedback, or providing enough differentiation between play style. I've seen many comments to the effect that mage, archer, and melee felt largely the same to play. I did like those Lugian engineers, though.
It was definitely on the right track. I believe CoH came closer to the sort of fast-paced reactive group combat they were shooting for. I'd argue that removing the "almost real physics" of AC1 projectiles was definitely a step back, though. In AC1, you could dodge arrows and projectile spells. PVP tended to FPS style circle-strafing and ducking behind cover.
I was a Cher Chaste, Monarch of OoO (Oracles of Order), from the first week of AC2 & played for around 3 years. I loved the game, I loved my minions.
The game had lots to offer & I wish they were incorporated into more games. Being an emote queen, I TRULY enjoyed the different dance style, sounds of character laughter & the music we could play as a band with our looted instruments! All this along with the background sounds & the awesome graphics was a big part of the game that so many of us enjoyed as passive play.
I really lost interest when they continued to nerf our characters. Then when they changed the crafting aspect of the game, I gave up & didn't continue subscribing to the game. I believe at one time I was #3 crafter on our server of Frostfell (Formerly Solclaim then was consolidated).
At this time, I still hold my account on AC1 on Solclaim. I love my mage there & enjoy playing her occasionally. My grown children play the game also. I am losing interest in this game tho because the graphics have become so crude, compared to other MMORPG.
Just a word about XP chains & Macro Bots; XP chains are bad enough for any game, macro bots are poison. If people are not stopped & their account(s) permanently banned, any game will suffer for those of us who choose to obey the rules.
I'm truly sad to see AC2 has failed. Along with many, we felt it was doomed from the beginning from too much lag & nerf-happy programmers. I'm now hesitant to buy anything made by Turbine.
Farewell to a good game. Thank you for all the wonderful memories.
Live well with yourself, walk well with your friends, hunt well against your enemies! ~*~ Cher Chaste ~*~
First off, i have played damn near every mmo out there that has gotten big big reviews, or tons of hype form everyone.... and all i can say is there is nothing out there that is even close to AC2, i have played since release of that game. Nothing has come close to it in graphics, or "fun factor" i mean that game was just ahead of its time, taht and all the nerfs, but who freaking cares about nerfs, jesus just play the damn game and learn to get better you damn babies, anyway i was just wondering what mags they guy was talking about that he "advertized" in, cause i know before AC2 came out there was about half a page of reviews in gamepro magazine, and that is all i ever saw of AC2 ever advertized.... if he would be so kind as to send me links to all the places he advertized i would love to see..... cause i know i havent seen anything on any gaming site ever....that was the only down fall to AC2, i dont think the creators really liked the game from the start and just meh screw it, lets see how long it can last ....prolly all for a bet, i really hate turbine for this, they did nothing to help, ya there was an expantion, and it rocked .....but still, when i was trying to get my copy, i called many of the big game dealers, bestbuy, gamestop, any place that would have computer games, and there was only one store that had even been told about it, and it was EB games.....so it just shows ya they didnt do a damn thing to get word out about this game..... not really sure if tha tmakes since or not, just to mad to really care but anyway i am very honored to have played the best mmo out there, there will never be another game like AC2, i am very sad that not many ppl got to enjoy what so few did, but anyway im out to go find somthing to play, and drink away the memories of AC2 closing, see yall later
I really worry about the precdent being established here.
A few months ago a challenged title from an unknown european publisher closed down right after release effectively stealing funds from thier subscribers.
Now a well established publisher effectively mimics this practice.
I find this disturbing and question the moral and legal standpoint of it.
To release a new title or expansion and then turn around and close down the servers raises some questions of ethics in the industry.
It goes to table to ask did Turbine know they were closing the game down before they released the expansion and pushed it thru with the intent to defraud thier subscribers out of more money?
From the spokespersons comments in this interview it seems they did indeed entertain the idea before the expansion release. They seem to be saying the expansion was released in an effort to curb this demise but that it failed.
It seems to me that turbine has an obligation to thier subscribers especially the ones who had paid out for this now defunct expansion. At the very least they could offer these people some form of recompense.
Beta accounts for the upcoming Turbine titles or possible ever a free copy of the new games when they release.
Worst game I've ever played, and before you flame, there is a reason that they are cancelling the game. I don't understand how they went from glorious AC1, to miserable AC2. The game wasn't even remotely similar to it's predecessor.
There are many factors that contributed to AC2s ultimate fate, and its really hard to single one factor out above the others. There are a lot of things that Turbine has learned from AC2, and were constantly applying those lessons to Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online. One of the key lessons that we learned is the customer perception of sequels in the MMO space. They end up splitting your community more so than growing it. So they are counterproductive, unlike sequels in other game genres where they can be really successful.
The saddest part is that it would seem as though this person doesn't realize that Sequels in games are just like movies... some bad, some good. the ones that end up being bad are the ones where they don't stay with the concepts of the original that made it so popular in the first place. When you go out and recreate something like they did with AC2. You are bound to alienate your already fanbase and possible not gain much considering the options in AC2. You only have 3 races and you are very limited in skills to learn compared to it's predecessor and the whole game was/or still is really anal retentive about grouping unlike AC1 where both are equally enjoyable. It didn't have the highly evolving quests that people were used to in AC1. Not one lever or any puzzles to figure out. then the most boring part is the step by step quest log. I know it seems to become a new norm of the latest games but i don't like that aspect at all with any of the new games. Give us simple hints but don't tell us every step of the way what all we need to do exactly.
But i guess folks just need their hands held while they do games these days... /shrug
But this goes to show like my original point, once you find that niche and you have a good set of features then stick with them, maybe fine tune some but keep them for the most part. Then just work on content and gameplay. Sequels don't have to bomb... If you are a good game developer period you would understand that. When making a game online or even offline... The devs have to keep in mind what makes people want to play games over and over. Stuff that is addicting... i.e. in AC1, one of my favorite aspects about that game was the random loot generator, you would end up with some of the most unique items in the game. Some pretty nice and some pretty goofy. But nevertheless, it's that easter egg syndrome.
Tinkering in AC1, that didn't make it to AC2... people who play AC1 love this aspect, why shouldn't they? you can tinker your gear to YOUR liking. Endless possibilities... We don't have to spend boring hours crafting junk just to craft more junk. Funny how this is an aspect that is similar to even that of Diablo 2 that so many liked... you can augment your items with gems. It's another form of tinkering, and people love that aspect. Why it didn't make it to AC2 off the start boggles the mind.
there is hardly anything feature wise that resembles AC1...
While i'm at it to further the point... Look at EQ2, sure it made some pretty big changes, but the core game is still there just in a different format. It still uses the same stat design with a more user-friendly interface and such. But that is just fine tuning... Many of the same classes are there, but they have a new way of going about doing it. It's an adventure rpg in EQ1 and yet it stays that way, even more anally so in EQ2. AC1 is an adventure rpg, but yet again they 180'd out on this aspect also.
If for one second those devs at AC2 would take off their bottleneck glasses and try and open their mind to what works and what doesn't.. then they would do 100% better. Sure throw in some new aspects, but take some advice from people who have made successful sequels. Don't change every single aspect of your original on your first sequel. 1/3 old, 1/3 updated/fine tuned, 1/3 new... rules to live by when doing a sequel.
As a beta tester that was never able to log in once due to bugs and a player at release who made his best to get the devs to understand how badly they were alienating players, all I can say is good riddance, this game deserved nothing less than to fail.
You had assembled one of the worst development team around on what should have been a game very close to Everquest in terms of suscribers, but yet, after constantly ignoring player comments, ideas and suggestion while instead concentrating on jerking us around, you got what was coming to you.
A big thumbs up to all players that quit the game over the years, we all had a small part in taking them down!
I agree with some of the posts. The Developers are the reason for the game's fall. Honestly, Jefferey needs to fire thier asses for screwing the game. If the developers from AC2 are allowed to be on the dev teams for DnD online, or LotR online, those games will bomb. I enjoyed the concept of the game, but not the end result. And Turbine's idea of not giving out the server info for AC2 is another failing. This means those players would have two choices, AC1, or going to a different company. And you don't get those customers back normally. In my opinion, this might be the start of the fall of Turbine as a company. There last few games havn't been as good, and now instead of fixing the problems with the game and listening to thier customers on why they disliked the game, they scrapped a game that they could of used to learn from thier mistakes. With these compounding mistakes, I've suggested selling turbine stock to all my friends that have it. This company is going the way of the dodo if they don't shape up.
P.S. And as for not releasing the server code. This is the worst part of the plan. If they release the server code, then AC2 players continue to play, further develop the game. And you as the company watch, see what's getting the players in content wise. Then you do one thing, Make AC3 with a new engine, and the content people want. Like one server, geography modification ability, etcetera. Now instead, they loose the ability to get thier name out further, and end up loosing customers in the long run.
Ac 2 was a joke. It was nothing like the OG Asherons call. If you are going to make a sequel their has to be something in common. The craft only part sucked. The slow running sucked. The game was not fun.
Reason ac1 is still around is because its fun to play. You can log in DT and kill or be killed. Or log on the carebear servers and emote to your hearts delight and do pklight.
Seems most these mmorpg's suck now anyways. Make big promises and always fall short having you think why I am paying for this shit.
I once drooled over AC 2. Then I played it. It was "ok" but then I had a run in with Microsoft Customer Support. I lost my credit card. The game billing failed, because I had to cancel my card. I decided I didn't want to renew right away so I waited a few months before signing back up. When I tried to do that I was extremely rudely informed that about fifty dollars had been sent to collections. I was told that my CD Key had been banned and I would have to purchase the game new again in order to play.
Hmm... Other MMO's I was subscribed to at the time gladly took me back...
They wonder why their customer base shriveled. Sure it may have not been the only reason but having subscription policies which seemingly could have only come from the third reich did NOT help them at all.
Did you know if you were unable to pay they would keep billing you and rack up debt?
Did you know if you didnt play for a little while your CD Key was erased/banned?
Every other MMO keeps characters as long as they can. They bill you at the BEGINNING of your month. That way if there are billing issues your account simply becomes inactive.
This game deserved to fail if for no other reason than their abhorrent customer service and typical Microsoft greed. Turbine will do much better now that their two new games will have NOTHING to do with Microsoft.
Guess what I did? I got a FREE copy of the game. I played for my FREE month as much as I possibly could. Then canceled my account before I was billed. NOW I AM DANCING ON THIS PIECE OF SHIT'S GRAVE!!!
I like Turbine and look forward to their future projects but... Good riddance!
Comments
It could hurt Turbine as a company if they were to release the server code. There's going to be a lot of proprietary information about building an MMO that's going to be contained in that source. Future competitors would be able to skip part of the learning curve when they attempt to build their own game. Turbine likely spent millions of dollars learning to solve certain problems. Why give someone the solution for free?
Not saying that it's a good thing (or even true in all cases), but it's the mindset that most companies have about their products.
The game has to have been bleeding money for a while now, they really had to look at closing it.
Not giving something back to the people who bought an expansion for a doomed game is a mistake, though.
The following is my personal opinion only.
That AC2 was a sequel had little - if anything - to do with its inability to attract players. There are a host of reasons it did not succeed, many of which have be touched on in this thread
The game was kicked out the door too soon, it was being continually rebalanced underneath the players, the combat design was uninspired, it was too easy to reach the "end" of the game, the critical early period of community development was destroyed by the inability to get the chat servers working, the console game style segregation of high level and low level players to specific continents further sabotaged community building, it took too long to get fresh content into the game, and the world felt "soulless."
I don't deny the AC1 players who expected "AC1+" negatively affected perception. It should have been possible to move beyond that and gain a fresh audience. AC1 was a hardcore Explorer game. AC2 was a lightweight Achiever game. The initial attempts to sell AC2 to the AC1 playerbase were doomed to fail.
Nevertheless, all of these design and operations issues I listed above would all remain true even if AC2 had been a fresh IP. No; AC2 failed not because AC1 fans rejected it, but because it couldn't create AC2 fans.
If this "sequels are counterproductive" is truly the best lesson Turbine has extracted from AC2, then it saddens me to say AC2 was ultimately an entirely fruitless endeavor. Not only did few enjoy the game, Turbine learned nothing from its failure.
A agree. If that was really their "take home lesson" from it all, I don't have very high hopes for the products Turbine is currently developing. Time will tell.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yup as usual the Devs will never admit they are the problem..
Its like "hey dont blame us, we just created, managed and ran the game, what the hell makes you think its our fault"
One of these days someone is going to listen to players and give us the game we want, rather than assuming they know whats best for us and then arguing they failed for "many reasons"
AC2 was "ok" thats all just "ok" and in a highly competetive environment "ok" isnt going to cut it anymore....
Next!......
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I have played AC2 from European Beta to September (August?) 2004. It was a heck of afun game, although it was my first MMORPG. I now know that AC1 has better lore and all that, but still, the Dereth of AC2 had a certain something *snaps his fingers* that I find lacking in other games. It has nothing to do with game mechanics, hero levels, skill systems. It's a feeling, the atmosphere.
I miss that in WoW, I miss that in EQ2, I miss that in Horizons, I miss that in every other MMORPG I've tried the past few years. Perhaps it's because AC2 was my first MMORPG, but still. Oh, and an other thing I really miss is playing my sage and hivekeeper. Those two characters (along with the healer) made it possible for me to enjoy the game for so many months.
Funny thing is I downloaded the trial version a few days before the announcement of the shutdown was made. Was ready to give it another go.
Ah well, AC2, I'll miss you.
Played: AC, AC2, Anarchy Online, AoC, D&D Online, Dark+Light, EQ2, EVE Online, FF XI, Guild Wars, Lineage II, Lotro, Ragnarok, Ryzom, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, WAR, WoW, etc. Also various MUDs
I would have been suprised if Blizzard put AC2 in the public domain. First of all, it would be giving up a great deal of their intelectual property. It would be beneficial to thier compeditors and to them little good. Next, the game is too big to run on some player's PC, so it would take at least a small company to operate and maintain it. Finally, if Blizzard was loosing money maintaining it, who could afford to run it? Even with just one low population world, it would take over a thousand a month to operate and that's without anyone to provide player support. My guess is that it would take an investment of over $100K just to get a minimal world up and running.
Some players don't realize that these big MMOs are not like the old MUDs that you could just stick on a spare system in the back room. They take a lot of expensive equipment to run and technical people to keep them running.
" the combat design was uninspired,"
Not meant as a flame but thats the worst argument you could come up with. Uninspired!, AC2 is quoted as having the best combat system in all games, it was the rest of the game that let it down.
Hmm sadly despite the Turbine grudgery around I am going to try dungeons and dragons. I mean there were elements that were good and original in ac2, and this I look forward to seeing in dungeons and dragons.
Lotr has apparently taken more of the ac2 developers but it doesn't look so good.
I agree that the combat system was the most solid part of AC2. The concept was good. The execution was very meh. Consensus seems to be that in practice it didn't succeed in engaging the player's interest, requiring actual feedback, or providing enough differentiation between play style. I've seen many comments to the effect that mage, archer, and melee felt largely the same to play. I did like those Lugian engineers, though.
It was definitely on the right track. I believe CoH came closer to the sort of fast-paced reactive group combat they were shooting for. I'd argue that removing the "almost real physics" of AC1 projectiles was definitely a step back, though. In AC1, you could dodge arrows and projectile spells. PVP tended to FPS style circle-strafing and ducking behind cover.
Sad news with this but not surprising.
I was a Cher Chaste, Monarch of OoO (Oracles of Order), from the first week of AC2 & played for around 3 years. I loved the game, I loved my minions.
The game had lots to offer & I wish they were incorporated into more games. Being an emote queen, I TRULY enjoyed the different dance style, sounds of character laughter & the music we could play as a band with our looted instruments! All this along with the background sounds & the awesome graphics was a big part of the game that so many of us enjoyed as passive play.
I really lost interest when they continued to nerf our characters. Then when they changed the crafting aspect of the game, I gave up & didn't continue subscribing to the game. I believe at one time I was #3 crafter on our server of Frostfell (Formerly Solclaim then was consolidated).
At this time, I still hold my account on AC1 on Solclaim. I love my mage there & enjoy playing her occasionally. My grown children play the game also. I am losing interest in this game tho because the graphics have become so crude, compared to other MMORPG.
Just a word about XP chains & Macro Bots; XP chains are bad enough for any game, macro bots are poison. If people are not stopped & their account(s) permanently banned, any game will suffer for those of us who choose to obey the rules.
I'm truly sad to see AC2 has failed. Along with many, we felt it was doomed from the beginning from too much lag & nerf-happy programmers. I'm now hesitant to buy anything made by Turbine.
Farewell to a good game. Thank you for all the wonderful memories.
Live well with yourself, walk well with your friends, hunt well against your enemies! ~*~ Cher Chaste ~*~
~*~Laughter is life itself ~*~
First off, i have played damn near every mmo out there that has gotten big big reviews, or tons of hype form everyone.... and all i can say is there is nothing out there that is even close to AC2, i have played since release of that game. Nothing has come close to it in graphics, or "fun factor" i mean that game was just ahead of its time, taht and all the nerfs, but who freaking cares about nerfs, jesus just play the damn game and learn to get better you damn babies, anyway i was just wondering what mags they guy was talking about that he "advertized" in, cause i know before AC2 came out there was about half a page of reviews in gamepro magazine, and that is all i ever saw of AC2 ever advertized.... if he would be so kind as to send me links to all the places he advertized i would love to see..... cause i know i havent seen anything on any gaming site ever....that was the only down fall to AC2, i dont think the creators really liked the game from the start and just meh screw it, lets see how long it can last ....prolly all for a bet, i really hate turbine for this, they did nothing to help, ya there was an expantion, and it rocked .....but still, when i was trying to get my copy, i called many of the big game dealers, bestbuy, gamestop, any place that would have computer games, and there was only one store that had even been told about it, and it was EB games.....so it just shows ya they didnt do a damn thing to get word out about this game..... not really sure if tha tmakes since or not, just to mad to really care but anyway i am very honored to have played the best mmo out there, there will never be another game like AC2, i am very sad that not many ppl got to enjoy what so few did, but anyway im out to go find somthing to play, and drink away the memories of AC2 closing, see yall later
-Neo-Damerus
Neo-Damerus lvl 70 Zerk
Asherons Call 2
Playing from release to death
AC2 FOREVER
I really worry about the precdent being established here.
A few months ago a challenged title from an unknown european publisher closed down right after release effectively stealing funds from thier subscribers.
Now a well established publisher effectively mimics this practice.
I find this disturbing and question the moral and legal standpoint of it.
To release a new title or expansion and then turn around and close down the servers raises some questions of ethics in the industry.
It goes to table to ask did Turbine know they were closing the game down before they released the expansion and pushed it thru with the intent to defraud thier subscribers out of more money?
From the spokespersons comments in this interview it seems they did indeed entertain the idea before the expansion release. They seem to be saying the expansion was released in an effort to curb this demise but that it failed.
It seems to me that turbine has an obligation to thier subscribers especially the ones who had paid out for this now defunct expansion. At the very least they could offer these people some form of recompense.
Beta accounts for the upcoming Turbine titles or possible ever a free copy of the new games when they release.
There are many factors that contributed to AC2s ultimate fate, and its really hard to single one factor out above the others. There are a lot of things that Turbine has learned from AC2, and were constantly applying those lessons to Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online. One of the key lessons that we learned is the customer perception of sequels in the MMO space. They end up splitting your community more so than growing it. So they are counterproductive, unlike sequels in other game genres where they can be really successful.
The saddest part is that it would seem as though this person doesn't realize that Sequels in games are just like movies... some bad, some good. the ones that end up being bad are the ones where they don't stay with the concepts of the original that made it so popular in the first place. When you go out and recreate something like they did with AC2. You are bound to alienate your already fanbase and possible not gain much considering the options in AC2. You only have 3 races and you are very limited in skills to learn compared to it's predecessor and the whole game was/or still is really anal retentive about grouping unlike AC1 where both are equally enjoyable. It didn't have the highly evolving quests that people were used to in AC1. Not one lever or any puzzles to figure out. then the most boring part is the step by step quest log. I know it seems to become a new norm of the latest games but i don't like that aspect at all with any of the new games. Give us simple hints but don't tell us every step of the way what all we need to do exactly.
But i guess folks just need their hands held while they do games these days... /shrug
But this goes to show like my original point, once you find that niche and you have a good set of features then stick with them, maybe fine tune some but keep them for the most part. Then just work on content and gameplay. Sequels don't have to bomb... If you are a good game developer period you would understand that. When making a game online or even offline... The devs have to keep in mind what makes people want to play games over and over. Stuff that is addicting... i.e. in AC1, one of my favorite aspects about that game was the random loot generator, you would end up with some of the most unique items in the game. Some pretty nice and some pretty goofy. But nevertheless, it's that easter egg syndrome.
Tinkering in AC1, that didn't make it to AC2... people who play AC1 love this aspect, why shouldn't they? you can tinker your gear to YOUR liking. Endless possibilities... We don't have to spend boring hours crafting junk just to craft more junk. Funny how this is an aspect that is similar to even that of Diablo 2 that so many liked... you can augment your items with gems. It's another form of tinkering, and people love that aspect. Why it didn't make it to AC2 off the start boggles the mind.
there is hardly anything feature wise that resembles AC1...
While i'm at it to further the point... Look at EQ2, sure it made some pretty big changes, but the core game is still there just in a different format. It still uses the same stat design with a more user-friendly interface and such. But that is just fine tuning... Many of the same classes are there, but they have a new way of going about doing it. It's an adventure rpg in EQ1 and yet it stays that way, even more anally so in EQ2. AC1 is an adventure rpg, but yet again they 180'd out on this aspect also.
If for one second those devs at AC2 would take off their bottleneck glasses and try and open their mind to what works and what doesn't.. then they would do 100% better. Sure throw in some new aspects, but take some advice from people who have made successful sequels. Don't change every single aspect of your original on your first sequel. 1/3 old, 1/3 updated/fine tuned, 1/3 new... rules to live by when doing a sequel.
As a beta tester that was never able to log in once due to bugs and a player at release who made his best to get the devs to understand how badly they were alienating players, all I can say is good riddance, this game deserved nothing less than to fail.
You had assembled one of the worst development team around on what should have been a game very close to Everquest in terms of suscribers, but yet, after constantly ignoring player comments, ideas and suggestion while instead concentrating on jerking us around, you got what was coming to you.
A big thumbs up to all players that quit the game over the years, we all had a small part in taking them down!
Feneant
20 something paladin
30 something weaponsmith
I agree with some of the posts. The Developers are the reason for the game's fall. Honestly, Jefferey needs to fire thier asses for screwing the game. If the developers from AC2 are allowed to be on the dev teams for DnD online, or LotR online, those games will bomb. I enjoyed the concept of the game, but not the end result. And Turbine's idea of not giving out the server info for AC2 is another failing. This means those players would have two choices, AC1, or going to a different company. And you don't get those customers back normally. In my opinion, this might be the start of the fall of Turbine as a company. There last few games havn't been as good, and now instead of fixing the problems with the game and listening to thier customers on why they disliked the game, they scrapped a game that they could of used to learn from thier mistakes. With these compounding mistakes, I've suggested selling turbine stock to all my friends that have it. This company is going the way of the dodo if they don't shape up.
-- Kaelas Askavi
-- Kaelas@direcway.com
-- Beta tester, MMORPG player
P.S. And as for not releasing the server code. This is the worst part of the plan. If they release the server code, then AC2 players continue to play, further develop the game. And you as the company watch, see what's getting the players in content wise. Then you do one thing, Make AC3 with a new engine, and the content people want. Like one server, geography modification ability, etcetera. Now instead, they loose the ability to get thier name out further, and end up loosing customers in the long run.
Ac 2 was a joke. It was nothing like the OG Asherons call. If you are going to make a sequel their has to be something in common. The craft only part sucked. The slow running sucked. The game was not fun.
Reason ac1 is still around is because its fun to play. You can log in DT and kill or be killed. Or log on the carebear servers and emote to your hearts delight and do pklight.
Seems most these mmorpg's suck now anyways. Make big promises and always fall short having you think why I am paying for this shit.
I once drooled over AC 2. Then I played it. It was "ok" but then I had a run in with Microsoft Customer Support. I lost my credit card. The game billing failed, because I had to cancel my card. I decided I didn't want to renew right away so I waited a few months before signing back up. When I tried to do that I was extremely rudely informed that about fifty dollars had been sent to collections. I was told that my CD Key had been banned and I would have to purchase the game new again in order to play.
Hmm... Other MMO's I was subscribed to at the time gladly took me back...
They wonder why their customer base shriveled. Sure it may have not been the only reason but having subscription policies which seemingly could have only come from the third reich did NOT help them at all.
Did you know if you were unable to pay they would keep billing you and rack up debt?
Did you know if you didnt play for a little while your CD Key was erased/banned?
Every other MMO keeps characters as long as they can. They bill you at the BEGINNING of your month. That way if there are billing issues your account simply becomes inactive.
This game deserved to fail if for no other reason than their abhorrent customer service and typical Microsoft greed. Turbine will do much better now that their two new games will have NOTHING to do with Microsoft.
Guess what I did? I got a FREE copy of the game. I played for my FREE month as much as I possibly could. Then canceled my account before I was billed. NOW I AM DANCING ON THIS PIECE OF SHIT'S GRAVE!!!
I like Turbine and look forward to their future projects but... Good riddance!
Does no one else care that they dodged the question concerning the number of players at the time of shut-down?
I am curious as to how many( or how little) players it takes to close down an MMO. That way I can keep my eyes open.