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Combat & "difficulty" - not sure if want...
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
I am REALLY over the fence atm whether or not to buy TSW. I really hope Funcom opens up more areas and all skills, because I just need to see it for real.
I just read this recent article on Massively about the newer zones and dungeons:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/24/raising-hell-in-the-secret-worlds-hell-raised-instance/
Wipe. And wipe. And wipe. Aaaaand wipe.
I *really* can't stand this anymore. You see, I get it: lolcopter combat is fashion of the day. Tera, GW2 and TSW. It's all about jumping, dodging, moving. God, I hate moving. I mean... no you don't want to know THAT. Just let it be said, I HATE this sort of jumping combat. It gives me the feeling of playing some damn Mario jumping console kiddy game. I love the EQ-WOW combat. Yes I said it. Now when a game is otherwise REALY REALLY good, and when the jump and dodge is not tooooo much, I can make a compromise and say, ok, to a degree I accept it. As long as it is not so difficult that you always need to time your reactions all the time. I just hate that, because frankly, I suck at it. As much as possible in the history of games, in the history of SUCKING.
"What??? I should jump left now? ... Oh you mean I should have jumped left 10 seconds ago. Ahhh!"
It.
Doesn't
Work.
With.
Me.
I just CAN'T. I have the reaction of a dead potatoe. Alas. So reading this Massively experience really made me cringe. I already had the feeling in the new content last TSW weekened that the newer mobs close to the NE were really difficult. I tried it with a friend as duo, and it was still very painful, slow and kinda like slowly wading through a swamp, centimeter by centimeter. Such things, the slowness, the timesome action/jump/react combat, it just wears my patience out in no time. Now this says nada about the quality of the game, mind ya. I am merely talking about preferrences. But at the moment, I am BORED OUT OF MY PANTS. SWTOR is not keeping me, and there isn't anything to play in my spare time. So maybe desperations makes me try it out, since generally I like the setting.
Sigh. Why do they have to make all combat now for 17 year old Mario kids. I AM OLD DAMMIT. If I wanted to MOVE I wouldn't sit in front of a damn computer all my spare time!
/rant over
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Try Atlantica Online, its fully turn-based.
I found WoW style combat tedious and boring. I prefer the multi faceted approach that dodging and the such like brings. I'm old but my fingers still work.
Mario was and is fucking awesome.
Fin.
classic post OP. "There I said it!" hahah
remember quest are repeatable in TSW If an area is a little too tough stay back for a day get the chops and win it the next day.
OT - hah, I have a healthy respect for none twitch combat. It was like that long before the way it sometimes is now. There was a great post on a WoW forum about what changed in cata. The OP made observations about what the new twitch, move or wipe the raid mechanics did to the game. Things like friends telling friends they can't come because they couldn't twitch. The same people who a couple months ago killed HLK. Now they keep wiping the raid.
I guess I'm indifferent, I can twitch with the best of them, but in a good way, either or it doesn't matter to me. I may be a little partial to the none twitch though. Two vary different ways of creating challenge.
There are several implementations of "twitch".
And i will use that word loosely here for "reaction-based combat".
A bad implementation of twitch is artificial twitch, i.e. a dice-based system, but with timing components. It essentially removes you further from your avatar. What I'm talking about here is Rogue combo-points or Paladin/DK energy crap.
I swear i feel like playing Guitar Hero on the "new and improved" Pala in Cataclysm, my friend who exclusively played Palas since vanilla just quit because he didn't want to play a fucking rythm game instead of an RPG.
Good twitch implementation is moving you closer to your avatar, i.e. giving you the ability to take over certain functions, like dodging/aiming, which would otherwise be handled by dice-rolls.
Of course there are several levels of this from games that almost exclusively rely on the players skill (Planetside 2) over almost equal hybrid systems (Fallen Earth) through the "dice assisted" games like TSW, GW2 or DCUO, right down to the exclusively dice-based games like WoW.
Problems happen with games like WoW when the dice-based system tries to be more "actiony", because the underlying gameplay-mechanics and learning-curve doesn't teach you that.
Nowhere in the earlier levels does WoW require you to "not stand in the fire" or execute precision-timing position-switches with your team-mates to mitigate some DOT/failure condition.
Its simply not necessary (ok, fine if you want to make your life harder and do 1-85 with an arcane mage, like i did, then maybe)
With games like TSW and GW2 its not such a big problem because you have plenty of time to work out and learn the mechanics during your leveling.
The first encounters in TSW will teach you to move out of the AOE and heavy-hits or else you are going to get killed in an instant. Tornquist also reinforced that they designed the game in such a way that it wont throw dungeon-encounters at you which will completely surprise you mechanically.
Take for example the first dungeon. Its specifically set up to first learn
a. dont fight the mobs in water, they get a bonus
b. the leader-mobs can use the water to do AOE damage if you stand in it
In the final encounter with the boss of that dungeon, the same mechanics apply that you learned before on trash.
Not only that, but the game gives you a way to actually prepare for the encounters, and if you listened/were attentive, before you went into the dungeon, you will know what to expect.
It rewards players that pay attention to their surroundings and to the lore.
As for Elikals problem with twitch in TSW, well its just not the game for him then, no hard feelings?
There are plenty of games I'd love to play because i find them intriguing, but i simply can't because i either lack the skill or the psychological fortitude, and thats ok, i can just watch an LP on youtube.
You must be paralytic in nature as its not hard to move out of the way of a major attack when it gives you 3-5 secs to do so. Really the game screams at you get out of the way
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.. i don't like twitch-based games and I'm not particularly good at them. I prefer MMOs that use the (more or less) traditional RPG combat systems.
That being said.. TSW does use the traditional combat system. Only thing you have to do is move your character (using regular movement controls) to get closer and farther from the mobs, etc. There is nothing that I saw that requires any kind of precision aiming or cheetah-like reflexes. Twitch-wise, nothing that i've seen in TSW combat is any different from the traditional MMO combat of games like EQ2 and LoTRO.
If you don't believe me, just read the tons and tons of GW2 and TERA fans that are all out criticizing TSW for its "outdated" and "boring" combat. They're 100% right in that, it really is 100% old-school style combat. It's even missing the innovations that AoC had made with combos and such.
While i do enjoy some combat innovation - stuff like FPS-style weapon switching in TR and combos in DCUO - I do like the game's main skill to remain as "strategy on what button to push next or where to stand" and not "how quick can you move your mouse onto a precise pixel". TSW is all the former and none of the latter, so while I too am looking for MMOs that use a more traditional system, i have no idea how you cam to the conclusion that TSW uses anything else.
Seriously, just read upon many of the combat comments from testers and gaming sites. They'll all tell you that it's "a bit stale", which in your case is a good thing.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Lol "mario kiddie games"? If you "suck" at it like you say, don't belittle those games because you are bad at them or say other games that are different are better because you are good at them. Different folks different strokes.