Now the market consists of millions of mmo nomads that cant stomach more than a month or 2 of riding the same ferris-wheel and eating from the same soup-kitchen as we hit mobs that rain-down all the game-play entitlements in the world to us, without effort.
I simply fear that the worlds in mmo's are no longer interactive or have anything for us to do in them beyong the pre made goals. Which also makes it's impossible for us to make out stories or, even worse, have anything to bond the community over.
[Citation needed]
That's my themepark response. Now where is my "Thats Easy" button.
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ In todays themeparks, it seems that the actions that we can partake in are dev driven. The quests, the dungeons, story, pvp, etc. Why are they dev driven IMO? A quest tells you to do 3 tasks, kill robbers, fecth water, and talk to the npc. However, all these events are scripted and pre-determined. ...
You're correct, they're dev-driven, for a reason: it's because many people buying and playing these games prefer it that way. Many people don't see these games as hobby anymore, they see it as some quick entertainment fix, and for those players the themepark formula is providing the quick entertainment fix.
Yeah, pretty much this. Gamers today have changed the market. Most of them are boring people, and hence, the market is catering to them.
I would say the entire community just needs patience for now.
I see it from the other side of things. It's not that gamers have changed the market, but that the games have. I've been around since before UO was released and watched as people who want more, like myself and many others, simply leave. It's a "reap what you sow" thing. What we have left are all the satisfied gamers who like it this way, while the others have largely bowed out.
And as newer gamers mature, many turning into players like we who want more, they are starting to bow out too. WoW brought in a massive influx in a very short time frame, so there's this huge "bubble" that's popped. We're watching the collapse that follows.
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ In todays themeparks, it seems that the actions that we can partake in are dev driven. The quests, the dungeons, story, pvp, etc. Why are they dev driven IMO? A quest tells you to do 3 tasks, kill robbers, fecth water, and talk to the npc. However, all these events are scripted and pre-determined. ...
You're correct, they're dev-driven, for a reason: it's because many people buying and playing these games prefer it that way. Many people don't see these games as hobby anymore, they see it as some quick entertainment fix, and for those players the themepark formula is providing the quick entertainment fix.
Yeah, pretty much this. Gamers today have changed the market. Most of them are boring people, and hence, the market is catering to them.
I would say the entire community just needs patience for now.
I see it from the other side of things. It's not that gamers have changed the market, but that the games have. I've been around since before UO was released and watched as people who want more, like myself and many others, simply leave. It's a "reap what you sow" thing. What we have left are all the satisfied gamers who like it this way, while the others have largely bowed out.
And as newer gamers mature, many turning into players like we who want more, they are starting to bow out too. WoW brought in a massive influx in a very short time frame, so there's this huge "bubble" that's popped. We're watching the collapse that follows.
I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective. The only question is, what happens next?
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective. The only question is, what happens next?
The trend is pretty clear: from EQ to WOW, to LFD/LFR, to Diablo 3 ....
MMORPGs need to be better games. MMORPGs need to cater to people with limited time. MMORPGs need to let people jump in and play a short adventure. Hence, less commitment, more focused on co-op small group gameplay.
I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective. The only question is, what happens next?
The trend is pretty clear: from EQ to WOW, to LFD/LFR, to Diablo 3 ....
MMORPGs need to be better games. MMORPGs need to cater to people with limited time. MMORPGs need to let people jump in and play a short adventure. Hence, less commitment, more focused on co-op small group gameplay.
If D3 is the future of mmorpg's then this genre has completely lost its way.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
My last hope to see a player-driven sandbox again, are in Lineage Eternal and, who knows, ArcheAge. As I've just said on LE forum:
Originally posted by Prenho
Me too, I'm a big Lineage 1 fan, one of the best sandbox MMOs I've played, I want to play this, mainly if Eternal can bring the same feeling that L1 had. Unfortunately, L1 has shut down in west, but it still is one of the most played MMOs in Asia, for example, there are 50 L1 servers in Korea against 35(or so) WoW servers or the 30 Lineage 2 servers. In China, Japan and Taiwan L1 also has a huge player base.
Por those people that always complain about grind, sorry, but Lineage has and it will alvays have grind, the market is currently saturated with themepark MMOs, and all of them are just WoW clones, where you reach the level cap in 3 days doing quests and after this, spend all your life in rows to do the same instances-arenas over and over, to farm the newest gear released, with absolutelly no drama.
I hope that LE brings back the old sandbox feeling that L1 has, focused in open world pvp-pk with item loss for pks and clan wars, where the players make their own alliances and enemies, unlike wow clones with the same static factions, in Lineage everything is dynamic, a big alliance can break up into small enemy ones and several small clans can become a big alliance.
I'm waiting for you, Eternal, I hope a great sandbox as L1, with no place for carebears, where alliances fight for resouces like world bosses all over the world and a player-driven economy/politics via castle sieges as L1 did-does so well.
I do love the WOW (and now Diablo 3) babies all saying how those ideas are stupid, and that they enjoy being told go from X to Y, kill Z and return it to me. Then move to this place and do the same thing to a different monster. I like the, "why would I want to climb a hill and make a campfire, I want to shoot fireballs at goblins" comeback. You realize that was just one example of something you could do (here is the catcher) IF YOU WANTED.
Unfortunately, that is how the market is now. People do love having their hand held through the games, and going out without having a risk or consequence of venturing out. They love just pushing a queue button to join an arena with set teams and rules and a timer, instead of gathering a group of people and hunting for people without knowing what you are going to find or what's going to happen. Why would we want to build our own houses that actually serve a purpose in game, hold events/parties, create player-driven quests, have plays, sit at a bank to chat/sell? The difference as I see it now is that MMO's are no longer player-driven worlds, but a linear single player games that you enjoy with others. You move from Zone 1 to Zone 2, craft item 1 then item 2, train skill 1 then skill 1 upgrade, find monster A then press 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over and over.
I know people are different, some people like game A, some like game B. I wish both would exist. A well made open-world/sandbox tough and grity game with player choice and involvement would do well. The problem is there arent many that are well made. Unfortunately a large % are kids/teen/young adults who never played the older games and dont remember. They think WoW started MMO's and have never known another way. They get griefed or lose their stuff one time and get upset and quit.
What options do we currently have? Xyson? Mortal? Darkfall? Of the 3, darkfall was the only game that was decently made and was pretty fun. A couple things held it back from being a real good game. Seriously, is there a hope?
I do love the WOW (and now Diablo 3) babies all saying how those ideas are stupid, and that they enjoy being told go from X to Y, kill Z and return it to me. Then move to this place and do the same thing to a different monster. I like the, "why would I want to climb a hill and make a campfire, I want to shoot fireballs at goblins" comeback. You realize that was just one example of something you could do (here is the catcher) IF YOU WANTED.
Unfortunately, that is how the market is now. People do love having their hand held through the games, and going out without having a risk or consequence of venturing out. They love just pushing a queue button to join an arena with set teams and rules and a timer, instead of gathering a group of people and hunting for people without knowing what you are going to find or what's going to happen. Why would we want to build our own houses that actually serve a purpose in game, hold events/parties, create player-driven quests, have plays, sit at a bank to chat/sell? The difference as I see it now is that MMO's are no longer player-driven worlds, but a linear single player games that you enjoy with others. You move from Zone 1 to Zone 2, craft item 1 then item 2, train skill 1 then skill 1 upgrade, find monster A then press 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over and over.
I know people are different, some people like game A, some like game B. I wish both would exist. A well made open-world/sandbox tough and grity game with player choice and involvement would do well. The problem is there arent many that are well made. Unfortunately a large % are kids/teen/young adults who never played the older games and dont remember. They think WoW started MMO's and have never known another way. They get griefed or lose their stuff one time and get upset and quit.
What options do we currently have? Xyson? Mortal? Darkfall? Of the 3, darkfall was the only game that was decently made and was pretty fun. A couple things held it back from being a real good game. Seriously, is there a hope?
Well EVE is certainly keeping me occupied, i think this year will be a big change considering the amount of MMO fails and small innovations that some MMO's are making. The bar is being set high for successful themeparks, and theres always room for another great sandbox.
In the Beginning - Big Bang! The concept of the MMO’s was created and launched! Pioneering philosophy drives MMO creation.
Untold Aeons Ago – Blizzard creates WoW at the centre of the universe. This unimaginably large black hole starts to suck all new MMO ideas into it.
This Millennium – The Corporate Wars engulf the galaxy, Corporate philosophy takes over one MMO star system after another. They start acquisition programmes to wipe out MMO companies that survive in independent star systems. Resistance is futile.
Recent Times – Many MMO star’s shine briefly and fail. The Disposed Guildie Migration Fleet flees from one MMO to another leaving their last MMO system a burnt out dream. Spurred on by Corporate philosophy, old Guildies stil believe the sun will always shine more brightly at their next port of call.
Captains Log, Today – Morale is low, we have been doing this for years now, one star system to the next. My faith in Corporate philosophy is waning but I can’t show the ships compliment how badly. We nearly beached on a Vapourware world the other month, the siren calls of advertising nearly fooling us all. My forward journalist scouts are picking up new signals from The Secret World and Guild Wars 2. They will keep us going for a few months more I guess, until crew members reach top level and lack of end game drive us on.
I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective. The only question is, what happens next?
The trend is pretty clear: from EQ to WOW, to LFD/LFR, to Diablo 3 ....
MMORPGs need to be better games. MMORPGs need to cater to people with limited time. MMORPGs need to let people jump in and play a short adventure. Hence, less commitment, more focused on co-op small group gameplay.
If D3 is the future of mmorpg's then this genre has completely lost its way.
More like CHANGE its way. It won't be the first genre that have evolved.
I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective. The only question is, what happens next?
The trend is pretty clear: from EQ to WOW, to LFD/LFR, to Diablo 3 ....
MMORPGs need to be better games. MMORPGs need to cater to people with limited time. MMORPGs need to let people jump in and play a short adventure. Hence, less commitment, more focused on co-op small group gameplay.
Wrong.
They don't need to cater (center the game around them), however it should be feasible to hop in and get something done. I don't know why it has to be one way or the other. When people stop complaining about being on equal footing compared to people who play 10 hours a day then maybe. This is why I think Guild Wars 2 has a nice approach with their cash shop when it comes to time saving items. That's fair in my opinion...
It'st he gamers today ruining the genre and gaming in general. Can't do anything without having 50 tool tips to show you how it's done, won't figure things out, have to be rewarded for every single thing they do. Ugh, it's gross.
You were right about one thing saying MMORPGs need to be better games. You're way of doing it isn't it though. D3 sold a lot..but..the game kinda sucks .
Comments
[citation needed]
[Citation needed]
That's my themepark response. Now where is my "Thats Easy" button.
I see it from the other side of things. It's not that gamers have changed the market, but that the games have. I've been around since before UO was released and watched as people who want more, like myself and many others, simply leave. It's a "reap what you sow" thing. What we have left are all the satisfied gamers who like it this way, while the others have largely bowed out.
And as newer gamers mature, many turning into players like we who want more, they are starting to bow out too. WoW brought in a massive influx in a very short time frame, so there's this huge "bubble" that's popped. We're watching the collapse that follows.
Once upon a time....
I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective. The only question is, what happens next?
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
The trend is pretty clear: from EQ to WOW, to LFD/LFR, to Diablo 3 ....
MMORPGs need to be better games. MMORPGs need to cater to people with limited time. MMORPGs need to let people jump in and play a short adventure. Hence, less commitment, more focused on co-op small group gameplay.
If D3 is the future of mmorpg's then this genre has completely lost its way.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
As! As! As! Not "Has"!!
My last hope to see a player-driven sandbox again, are in Lineage Eternal and, who knows, ArcheAge. As I've just said on LE forum:
I do love the WOW (and now Diablo 3) babies all saying how those ideas are stupid, and that they enjoy being told go from X to Y, kill Z and return it to me. Then move to this place and do the same thing to a different monster. I like the, "why would I want to climb a hill and make a campfire, I want to shoot fireballs at goblins" comeback. You realize that was just one example of something you could do (here is the catcher) IF YOU WANTED.
Unfortunately, that is how the market is now. People do love having their hand held through the games, and going out without having a risk or consequence of venturing out. They love just pushing a queue button to join an arena with set teams and rules and a timer, instead of gathering a group of people and hunting for people without knowing what you are going to find or what's going to happen. Why would we want to build our own houses that actually serve a purpose in game, hold events/parties, create player-driven quests, have plays, sit at a bank to chat/sell? The difference as I see it now is that MMO's are no longer player-driven worlds, but a linear single player games that you enjoy with others. You move from Zone 1 to Zone 2, craft item 1 then item 2, train skill 1 then skill 1 upgrade, find monster A then press 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over and over.
I know people are different, some people like game A, some like game B. I wish both would exist. A well made open-world/sandbox tough and grity game with player choice and involvement would do well. The problem is there arent many that are well made. Unfortunately a large % are kids/teen/young adults who never played the older games and dont remember. They think WoW started MMO's and have never known another way. They get griefed or lose their stuff one time and get upset and quit.
What options do we currently have? Xyson? Mortal? Darkfall? Of the 3, darkfall was the only game that was decently made and was pretty fun. A couple things held it back from being a real good game. Seriously, is there a hope?
Well EVE is certainly keeping me occupied, i think this year will be a big change considering the amount of MMO fails and small innovations that some MMO's are making. The bar is being set high for successful themeparks, and theres always room for another great sandbox.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Yeah, I love the concept of EVE, and they do tons of things right. Unfortunately, not a big fan of the combat, and not a huge Sci Fi guy either.
Still lots of cool stuff there. Not really anywhere else to turn.
More like CHANGE its way. It won't be the first genre that have evolved.
Wrong.
They don't need to cater (center the game around them), however it should be feasible to hop in and get something done. I don't know why it has to be one way or the other. When people stop complaining about being on equal footing compared to people who play 10 hours a day then maybe. This is why I think Guild Wars 2 has a nice approach with their cash shop when it comes to time saving items. That's fair in my opinion...
It'st he gamers today ruining the genre and gaming in general. Can't do anything without having 50 tool tips to show you how it's done, won't figure things out, have to be rewarded for every single thing they do. Ugh, it's gross.
You were right about one thing saying MMORPGs need to be better games. You're way of doing it isn't it though. D3 sold a lot..but..the game kinda sucks
.