Originally posted by Dekoth Zelda is to Link as Link is to Zelda. One without the other is not a whole. So it had Zelda in it..so what? As I recall Zelda has always at best made token appearances the entire story has always evolved around Link. the only thing WW has that is Zelda are a few token references, that does not make a zelda game, that makes a franchise mooching sequel.
This still doesn't change the fact that despite how 'un-Zeldalike' you think the Wind Waker may be, it is still very much a part of the Legend of Zelda game timeline and continuum.
Now that I think of it, didn't you say that you only played about 5 hours into the game? If that's true, you're not in much of a position to judge how well WW fits in with the rest of the series.
Yes 5 hours..that was all I could take before I threw the controller down in disgust. It looks like it was designed by a 3 year old. You can get suprisingly far in 5 hours.
The other Zelda's I have played again and again, heck I still own my original Gold cartridge although I obviously play the rom since the nes is long dead.
By the way Remy, This is my whole point its not Link in WW.
I can't say the start is extremely good, it's more of an introduction to the game, you are forced to do the first few temples in a linear progression.
But later on some of the dungeons are fantastic (my favourite is the Earth temple). I also love how many sidequests there are, particularly on windmill island. I loved treasure hunting, I loved photography (I got a photo of everything in the game). I just loved how much there was to do. I also loved the fighting, it could get tricky sometimes, particularly against some of those knights in full armour (I forget their actual names). Then the sea battles, the puzzles, the sense of freedom you get by sailing your tiny boat wherever you want across a fairly big ocean. There is pretty much something to find on each and every zone in the whole map. Which is something that I loved as a keen explorer.
*Signature*The Pessimist says the cup is half empty. The Optimist says the cup is half full. The Pragmatist says the cup is half full of air. The Engineer says the cup is operating at 50% capacity. The Psychologist says the cup is your mother. The Punk Kid also says the cup is your mother. The Cricket Player says his cup is definately full. Everyone knows that Pamela Andersons cups are full. The Defendant says it was like that when he found it. Me, I just ask the waitress for a refill.
Originally posted by Dekoth Yes 5 hours..that was all I could take before I threw the controller down in disgust. It looks like it was designed by a 3 year old. You can get suprisingly far in 5 hours. The other Zelda's I have played again and again, heck I still own my original Gold cartridge although I obviously play the rom since the nes is long dead. By the way Remy, This is my whole point its not Link in WW.
I don't see your point. this game takes place in the world of Hyrule, who cares if it's link or the next hero in line. Just because his name isn't Link doesn't make this any less of a Zelda game.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
The major problem with cell shading is that there are legions of people that think cartoons are for kids. No matter how serious, dark or mature the subject matter is, these people will still percieve it as being aimed at children because it looks like a cartoon. This is the reason why you can still occasionally find Akira and Fritz The Cat in the childrens sections of Blockbuster. This is the reason that a woman sued cartoon network after her son mimicked something he saw on FLCL, a show that was aired after midnight on Adult Swim.
Because of this, macho insecure male teenagers will hate any and everything that looks "too cartoony". In fact, anyone that's worried about looking "mature" will hate any and everything that looks "too cartoony".
I personally like cell shading so long as it fits the games theme or atmosphere. As a wannabe indie developer, I also like the fact that it makes low polygon models look really, really good.
Originally posted by Dekoth I am a huge Zelda Fan as I gre up on the original. However everytime I hear the term Cell Shading I immeditally get nightmarish flashbacks to the atrocity of Windwaker. That game was an embarrassment to the franchise. And pretty much every game I have ever seen with "Cell shading" looks just as bad.
IF you were a real legend of zelda fan and your grew up on the original you wouldnt be complaining if the graphics were pure shit... Even though there not...The legend of zelda really has only had 2 3d games 3 if you count windwaker. But the reason zelda is so big is because of its gameplay i mean it uses the same meathod over and over and over...but its still fun every time..LOZ layout...Get a item, do a crazy puzzle, fight boss wtih that item...get a heart container.... go to diffent duengeon and do it all over again.. But its still a really great game franchise..And about windwaker i say it was the 2nd best legend of zelda game out there...1.orcarina of time.2. wind waker 3. A link to the past.
And yes LOZ:TWW was the first game to do cell-shadeing right even if the blue ocean does get alittle borning every once In a while. OK im done.
Cute...Read my next post genius.
Windwaker does not even honestly warrant argument. I was not and never will be Zelda. The only thing it had in common was a token mention of Link, and similiar gameplay.
LoZ for the NES was and always will be the best, and no sequel or especially a cheap spinoff using the Zelda name will ever equal it. Sure Windwaker might have been a good game from a gameplay perspective, but I am sorry it just is not Zelda in anything other then Name.
You pbviously have no idea what you're talking about, every zelda game is about a different Link and a different Zelda, in fact many poeple would believe Ocarina of Time is quite easily the best game ver made... period
Even if it wasnt link in WIND waker it WAS a decendent of link because if you pay attention in the beggining when the grandma says "we hang our family shield in the house,because we dont have to fight anymore" Then once you get the shield when link throws it up in the air it says"THis sheild is said to of been used by the HERO(link) in the tales...
Thus meaning you are links decendent just like all the other games...
I personally dont like the cell shaded look. Its not that i think it looks cartoony and cartoons are for little kids, believe me, I enjoy my sunday morning cartoons, its that it just looks unattractive to me and rather ugly. Also, there are a few cell shaded MMO's out there, but i believe they've had some mixed reviews (I dont know if they really do, Iv'e just heard that).
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Originally posted by darquenblade Originally posted by scaramoosh Would be nice to get a mmorpg Zelda :)I dunno..Zelda wouldn't really translate well at all into an MMORPG. Think about it--who would all the players be? For some reason I can't shake the thought of 10,000 Links running around...
Actually, a friend of mine and I were brainstorming this while we were just hanging around. Like the Ocarina of Time, you start as an elf boy in the forest, a zorgon (or whatever the name was) in the mountains, a human in Hyrule, or one of those fish-people in an under-water area. There'd be a lot of great hunting places (boss instances a la WoW?). The quests would be more FFXI-like (ie, somewhat of a story-line). The classes could be a healer, mage, archer, fighter, rogue, and maybe some hybrid classes. It would use the same combat style as Ocarina of Time.
Damn... I should get this patented.
_____________________________________ "Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro; Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore." -Machiavelli
Originally posted by Gilthani I hope your joking???? Who wants to play a non pubescant little girl, or boy with a huge stupid looking sword who shoots hearts at rabbits?
Shooting hearts at rabbits? Where did you pull that from?
As for cell shading in MMORPGs, we will have to see how SEED goes, then from there on, if well, im sure people will clone the style with their own little twists.
And on the topic of Windwaker, I liked the graphics, I think I just never played it because it wasnt the Zelda game that was previewed at E3 many eons ago that I was craving so much. For those of you who remember the Zelda clip @ E3 when the gamecube came out, yeah... thats the one I was waiting for, and finally Twilight Princess is going to be here... after a huge delay (stupid ninetndo, youd better be making some huge additions with this delay)
Originally posted by Gilthani I hope your joking???? Who wants to play a non pubescant little girl, or boy with a huge stupid looking sword who shoots hearts at rabbits?
most of the people who are tired of every EQ clone that thinks making better graphics and a biggre world will revolutionize the game.
sometimes noit being exactly like everything else is ok, i know change scares you but if you dont like it there will allways be a mass of eq clones around just for your pleasure.
its like saying "who would want to play a game where a fat italian jumps on mushrooms and climbs in sewers" you can downplay anything by the way you describe it but i dont know anyone who didnt play super mario brothers for most of their childhood.
just because you try to be exactly like everyone else doesnt mean everyone else is exactly like you.
now i played rose and killing jelly beans doesnt sound fun at first but after playing it id say thats one of the first mmorpgs ive had fun playing. most are stark boring with no direction and no gameflow. eq bored me but im sure others liked it and thats cool for them , nothing wrong with them for liking a game diffrent than my taste.
Originally posted by scaramoosh I don't see hwy you all have a problem :S
It looks better than them plain plastic graphics you get these days on games like Doom 3 and EQ2 etc
Cel shaded MMOG might be nice, but the graphics on Doom 3 are freakin amazing and same with EQ2. Maybe you have a sucky video card, because on mine the graphics on those two games are spellbinding! As in untouchable, you'd have to see it on a high end system.
Originally posted by Dekoth I am a huge Zelda Fan as I gre up on the original. However everytime I hear the term Cell Shading I immeditally get nightmarish flashbacks to the atrocity of Windwaker. That game was an embarrassment to the franchise. And pretty much every game I have ever seen with "Cell shading" looks just as bad.
And that's your opinion. Personally, I think Wind Waker was the first game to get cel shading right. Is that the only thing you disliked about it? Gameplay wise, it was nearly identical to Ocarina of Time.
I loved the graphics and i thought it was like all the others!
I found it a little hard and annoying at times.
Would be nice to get a mmorpg Zelda
There is. or there are some Zelda MMORPG's One not sure but think it is semi grpahical, but there is also a Zelda OoT version of a MMORPG coming out as well. Well here is what I have found...
not much of a Zelda fan ever since Wind Waker came out. Both me and my son were big Zelda fans ever since the first Nintendo. Infact it was Wind waker that made us decide to go to Xbox instead of getting the NGC. Both of us were very disappointed when we saw the graphics of Wind Waker.
In my opinion it was a slap in the face to its fans and they just simplified the graphics for wind waker to make it easier to produce more titles faster. Story or not, taking a back seat of graphics is not a way to step ahead. Anyway, yes this is my opinion and what I think. What, you want me to express your opinion? Forget it! I rather go play a MUD than spend money on a series that died after Majora's Mask. Don't believe it, then why did Xbox sell so well? Plus why is Twilight Princess using a advanced version of what OoT uses?
Cell Shading is a cop out to quick releases only to aid developers that have only one desire and that is profit. It is bad enough that game development companies focus so much on only money and not providing the consumer with valueble entertainment. However pushing that desire into the development room is a disaster. Cell shading has no future and only is a visual concept of the past. We have gone so far ahead with graphical details in a game that at this level the content and game mechanics are are starting to catch up. Using Cell shading is a joke and only used by desparate companies that got all you kids hooked on games like Poke'mon and other asian crap games. Wake up, cartoons are taking on a new form, WoW is a perfect example how that is changing for you cartoon fantasy wannabes.
EDITED TO COMMENT ON THE POST PREVIOUS TO THIS ONE: Looking at those pics makes me laugh. It is like putting a kindergarten drawing in a environment a free style artist from france did. Or in other words. Like throwing dog crap on a million dollar painting.
Comments
This still doesn't change the fact that despite how 'un-Zeldalike' you think the Wind Waker may be, it is still very much a part of the Legend of Zelda game timeline and continuum.
Now that I think of it, didn't you say that you only played about 5 hours into the game? If that's true, you're not in much of a position to judge how well WW fits in with the rest of the series.
Yes 5 hours..that was all I could take before I threw the controller down in disgust. It looks like it was designed by a 3 year old. You can get suprisingly far in 5 hours.
The other Zelda's I have played again and again, heck I still own my original Gold cartridge although I obviously play the rom since the nes is long dead.
By the way Remy, This is my whole point its not Link in WW.
How far did you get?
I can't say the start is extremely good, it's more of an introduction to the game, you are forced to do the first few temples in a linear progression.
But later on some of the dungeons are fantastic (my favourite is the Earth temple). I also love how many sidequests there are, particularly on windmill island. I loved treasure hunting, I loved photography (I got a photo of everything in the game). I just loved how much there was to do. I also loved the fighting, it could get tricky sometimes, particularly against some of those knights in full armour (I forget their actual names). Then the sea battles, the puzzles, the sense of freedom you get by sailing your tiny boat wherever you want across a fairly big ocean. There is pretty much something to find on each and every zone in the whole map. Which is something that I loved as a keen explorer.
*Signature*The Pessimist says the cup is half empty. The Optimist says the cup is half full. The Pragmatist says the cup is half full of air. The Engineer says the cup is operating at 50% capacity. The Psychologist says the cup is your mother. The Punk Kid also says the cup is your mother. The Cricket Player says his cup is definately full. Everyone knows that Pamela Andersons cups are full. The Defendant says it was like that when he found it. Me, I just ask the waitress for a refill.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
The major problem with cell shading is that there are legions of people that think cartoons are for kids. No matter how serious, dark or mature the subject matter is, these people will still percieve it as being aimed at children because it looks like a cartoon. This is the reason why you can still occasionally find Akira and Fritz The Cat in the childrens sections of Blockbuster. This is the reason that a woman sued cartoon network after her son mimicked something he saw on FLCL, a show that was aired after midnight on Adult Swim.
Because of this, macho insecure male teenagers will hate any and everything that looks "too cartoony". In fact, anyone that's worried about looking "mature" will hate any and everything that looks "too cartoony".
I personally like cell shading so long as it fits the games theme or atmosphere. As a wannabe indie developer, I also like the fact that it makes low polygon models look really, really good.
I'm 20 not 3 :
I don't see 3 year olds playing games :S
I think the graphic style is soo amazing to look at and really fun to play in games!
Just think it really brings an original and enjoyable style mmorpg!
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Don't click here...no2
Cute...Read my next post genius.
Windwaker does not even honestly warrant argument. I was not and never will be Zelda. The only thing it had in common was a token mention of Link, and similiar gameplay.
LoZ for the NES was and always will be the best, and no sequel or especially a cheap spinoff using the Zelda name will ever equal it. Sure Windwaker might have been a good game from a gameplay perspective, but I am sorry it just is not Zelda in anything other then Name.
You pbviously have no idea what you're talking about, every zelda game is about a different Link and a different Zelda, in fact many poeple would believe Ocarina of Time is quite easily the best game ver made... period
OOT was sooo over hyped!
I personally hated it!
Zelda: Links awakening was the best
Can think of tons of games that are alot better than that overhyped game
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Don't click here...no2
Here's proof to my statement:
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y
There's already quite a few cell shaded MMORPGs in the works.
http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/adventure/legendofzeldathewindwaker/news_6119327.html
Even if it wasnt link in WIND waker it WAS a decendent of link because if you pay attention in the beggining when the grandma says "we hang our family shield in the house,because we dont have to fight anymore" Then once you get the shield when link throws it up in the air it says"THis sheild is said to of been used by the HERO(link) in the tales...
Thus meaning you are links decendent just like all the other games...
Avatar and Signature [c] Ishi*;
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Actually, a friend of mine and I were brainstorming this while we were just hanging around. Like the Ocarina of Time, you start as an elf boy in the forest, a zorgon (or whatever the name was) in the mountains, a human in Hyrule, or one of those fish-people in an under-water area. There'd be a lot of great hunting places (boss instances a la WoW?). The quests would be more FFXI-like (ie, somewhat of a story-line). The classes could be a healer, mage, archer, fighter, rogue, and maybe some hybrid classes. It would use the same combat style as Ocarina of Time.
Damn... I should get this patented.
_____________________________________
"Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
-Machiavelli
Yea... Seed Online is cell shaded.
There's also several Korean mmorpgs that are cell shaded... Mabinogi and Holy Beast Online, just as examples.
Personally i'd take cell shaded over something like EQ2 any day.
I hope your joking????
Who wants to play a non pubescant little girl, or boy with a huge stupid looking sword who shoots hearts at rabbits?
Bonez
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Being cel-shaded does not necessarily mean that the avatars will be children, or anything.
I just like the art style and look of it.
Shooting hearts at rabbits? Where did you pull that from?
As for cell shading in MMORPGs, we will have to see how SEED goes, then from there on, if well, im sure people will clone the style with their own little twists.
And on the topic of Windwaker, I liked the graphics, I think I just never played it because it wasnt the Zelda game that was previewed at E3 many eons ago that I was craving so much. For those of you who remember the Zelda clip @ E3 when the gamecube came out, yeah... thats the one I was waiting for, and finally Twilight Princess is going to be here... after a huge delay (stupid ninetndo, youd better be making some huge additions with this delay)
most of the people who are tired of every EQ clone that thinks making better graphics and a biggre world will revolutionize the game.
sometimes noit being exactly like everything else is ok, i know change scares you but if you dont like it there will allways be a mass of eq clones around just for your pleasure.
its like saying "who would want to play a game where a fat italian jumps on mushrooms and climbs in sewers" you can downplay anything by the way you describe it but i dont know anyone who didnt play super mario brothers for most of their childhood.
just because you try to be exactly like everyone else doesnt mean everyone else is exactly like you.
now i played rose and killing jelly beans doesnt sound fun at first but after playing it id say thats one of the first mmorpgs ive had fun playing. most are stark boring with no direction and no gameflow. eq bored me but im sure others liked it and thats cool for them , nothing wrong with them for liking a game diffrent than my taste.
I don't see hwy you all have a problem :S
It looks better than them plain plastic graphics you get these days on games like Doom 3 and EQ2 etc
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Don't click here...no2
Well i have a x800xt and can run everything on max with an ok FPS
To me Doom 3 everything looks plastic
EQ2 all the character models look plastic :
Just don't like that look! I know we all have different tastes but that can't be the way gaming is going :S
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Don't click here...no2
I got a cellshaded MMORPG for ya that is comming out with an english version. It's called...
MOOC
Here is a screenshot:
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
I loved the graphics and i thought it was like all the others!
I found it a little hard and annoying at times.
Would be nice to get a mmorpg Zelda
There is. or there are some Zelda MMORPG's One not sure but think it is semi grpahical, but there is also a Zelda OoT version of a MMORPG coming out as well. Well here is what I have found...
Not out yet, but in the works. http://www.projectzeldaonline.com/
One that is out and in beta. Don't know much about it, but came across this before. I think it is a semi grpahical but MUD type of MMO? Not sure.
http://dhost.info/wota2/
not much of a Zelda fan ever since Wind Waker came out. Both me and my son were big Zelda fans ever since the first Nintendo. Infact it was Wind waker that made us decide to go to Xbox instead of getting the NGC. Both of us were very disappointed when we saw the graphics of Wind Waker.
In my opinion it was a slap in the face to its fans and they just simplified the graphics for wind waker to make it easier to produce more titles faster. Story or not, taking a back seat of graphics is not a way to step ahead. Anyway, yes this is my opinion and what I think. What, you want me to express your opinion? Forget it! I rather go play a MUD than spend money on a series that died after Majora's Mask. Don't believe it, then why did Xbox sell so well? Plus why is Twilight Princess using a advanced version of what OoT uses?
Cell Shading is a cop out to quick releases only to aid developers that have only one desire and that is profit. It is bad enough that game development companies focus so much on only money and not providing the consumer with valueble entertainment. However pushing that desire into the development room is a disaster. Cell shading has no future and only is a visual concept of the past. We have gone so far ahead with graphical details in a game that at this level the content and game mechanics are are starting to catch up. Using Cell shading is a joke and only used by desparate companies that got all you kids hooked on games like Poke'mon and other asian crap games. Wake up, cartoons are taking on a new form, WoW is a perfect example how that is changing for you cartoon fantasy wannabes.
EDITED TO COMMENT ON THE POST PREVIOUS TO THIS ONE: Looking at those pics makes me laugh. It is like putting a kindergarten drawing in a environment a free style artist from france did. Or in other words. Like throwing dog crap on a million dollar painting.