As far as I'm concerned, permadeath only has one implementation.
If you die, your character and associated character attributes (skills, XP, name, affiliation, whatever) dies (not to be confused with loss of money, gear, etc.). For good. All else is no longer permadeath but something else.
What you're describing is the Path of Exile Hardcore management system and I don't like it. I prefer when Hardcore just kills my character. Otherwise, it kinda feels diminished, like they don't really die (because they don't). I further prefer HC and SC to be completely separate, while moving an HC character to SC muddles the waters. In PoE, it transferred your gear and everything.
As far as I'm concerned PoE HC is not permadeath. Call it what it is, "character transfer on death".
I think what a lot of people confuse with permadeath are "harsh death penalties". For instance, EVE has a lot of those. Your clone can actually die and stuff. But it's not permadeath, it's extensive punishing loss mechanics. That's what they are, please call them that, stop calling death mechanics "permadeath" when they do not involve 100% losing your character forever (EVE equivalent of losing all your skills when your clone dies).
Discussion of harsh loss penalties is a whole other issue entirely. Full loot is a harsh loss penalty. I advise not to discuss too many different topics in a thread at once. Pick one and center on it, or broaden the thread overall (i.e., hardcore playstyles vs casual playstyles).
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As for the rest of your thread.
What you're describing is not complaining about permadeath. Complaining about permadeath would be going on DayZ forums and saying how the game shouldn't have permadeath. What you're describing is opposition towards permadeath in future products. I'm not sure why you seem so insulted (I presume this from you using certain terms such as "haters") by people not sharing your love towards permadeath in MMO's. I also want to ask why you are trying to convince other people to like something they don't like? Why can't we just sit on server B? My question to you: what is the point of this system?
Since this is an MMO forum, I discuss permadeath in terms of MMO's. I believe the following to be true:
a) No MMO with permadeath will be a terribly serious thing for me. I will not play it for long. I will not get invested in it. I believe this is true for a lot of people out there;
b) An MMO with permadeath will be very limited in terms of what kind of features it will implement, since being a permadeath-centered MMO changes a lot of things drastically; permadeath MMO's are pigeonholed into very specific playstyles and subgenres.
Those two reasons are enough for me to have 0 interest in a permadeath MMO. I'll play an FFA PvP MMO before then.
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On the other hand, I frequently play ARPG's or single player games with permadeath. Mostly because many of these games are:
a) games are usually easy and not too long. Surviving in DII is not that hard. DIII considerably harder, but still not that difficult; surviving in FFA PvP games can often be virtually impossible; if you die in DIII, you don't lose that much, because it doesn't take that much effort to get up again;
b) often we start playing permadeath after we beat the game many times as an additional challege. Permadeath mode is often a secondary thing you can choose, rarely a forced feature;
c) I highlight SP games because SP games do not have a persistent community. While you do have some degree of a Hardcore DII scene with Hostile where you can argue there can be some persistence, that's such a tiny percentage of the already tiny HC population.
MMO's, on the other hand, are permadeath-through-persistent. What the hell do I mean with this? I mean that when you kill some guy, yeah, he dies. But then he creates a new character again. Sometimes it's going to be easier to die and start over than bother surviving. Because MMO's are persistent and permadeath doesn't persist beyond the MMO world, there are gonna arise some weird things (which I'm sure happened in DayZ already) where permadeath sort of loses its meaning and death cycles on the server where everyone eventually dies since nobody actually dies for good. In my view, this is not really permadeath anymore, no more than dying in Quake. It's just an arena with long respawn timers. I don't think permadeath can work in MMO's.
I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option.
This was the opinion of some users of this forum and I saw it many times here, and so is not my opinion, I was just stating how far permadeath haters go, at the point of not only not playing the permadeath games (few games, if any), but saying that no permadeath game should be developed, ever, and the guys that like it can just delete your char when they die in a normal mmorpg.
Wanting that NO ONE make mmorpg with permadeath would be like saying something like: "artists should stop releasing metal songs, release something else, stop releasing metal stuff" and then when they see someone is forming a metal band they would say "your idea is bad, dont form a metal band, dont release metal music, release/play something else."
Also I am pretty sure there problably some mmorpg out there that dont let you delete your char, making this "delete your char when you die" idea impossible.
Also, are you saying that even this type of permadeath idea/gameplay (a idea that is not even exactly permadeath gameplay) you would say, "I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option"?
Anyway, answering your question, the idea of the thread was to see, if even with this permadeath idea that changes almost nothing to the ones that want to play without permadeath (other than having to die once to go to the server), people would still say permadeath should be banned/never made into mmorpgs.
Originally posted by Ashen_X
Originally posted by exdeathbr
Also my idea never stated the game would have or not pvp.
By specifying that the gme would be assumed to not be full loot, an assumption that needs only be made in a game with PvP, you did imply that it would have PvP.
Some users here on this forum that dont like full loot, would problably hate it even in a mmorpg with ZERO pvp (instancied or not).
Also the idea about the game not being full loot was to make the game even less permadeath. You dont even need to lose your items to go to the non permadeath universe B, you can just start the game, go as fast to a place with monsters and then die to go to universe B.
Anyway, answering your question, the idea of the thread was to see, if even with this permadeath idea that changes almost nothing to the ones that want to play without permadeath (other than having to die once to go to the server), people would still say permadeath should be banned/never made into mmorpgs.
Your idea is not permadeath.
So your thread is saying "so, I have this idea that is not permadeath. Are people still against permadeath?"
That doesn't make much sense, does it?
Yes, many of us are against permadeath.
What you brought up is a harsh loss penalty. If you want to discuss harsh loss penalties, make a thread about harsh loss penalties, instead of setting up flamebait because it pisses you off that God forbid some people don't like losing their characters in MMO's.
Anyway, answering your question, the idea of the thread was to see, if even with this permadeath idea that changes almost nothing to the ones that want to play without permadeath (other than having to die once to go to the server), people would still say permadeath should be banned/never made into mmorpgs.
Your idea is not permadeath.
So your thread is saying "so, I have this idea that is not permadeath. Are people still against permadeath?"
That doesn't make much sense, does it?
Yes, many of us are against permadeath.
What you brought up is a harsh loss penalty. If you want to discuss harsh loss penalties, make a thread about harsh loss penalties, instead of setting up flamebait because it pisses you off that God forbid some people don't like losing their characters in MMO's.
My idea is not permadeath and I know it. The thing is that people already complained about almost every single real pemadeath ideas here, as the point of calling people that ask for a game with permadeath to just delete their chars in a normal game, no need to a permadeath game being released.
So I decided to see if even with this idea that is not even permadeath, people would complain at the point of saying stuff like just play your game and delete the chars that die.
I am not complaining about people that would not play a game that has permadeath, that hate losing their chars, but people that say that no permadeath game should be developed ever instead of just playing games without permadeath (99.9% of them).
Explaining with a analogy, there is a difference of saying "I dont like loud music" with "few people like loud music, so stop to create death metal albums, if you want loud music just make your speakers volume higher".
So why are you being misleading in the thread title?
The thing is that people already complained about almost every single real pemadeath ideas here, as the point of calling people that ask for a game with permadeath to just delete their chars in a normal game, no need to a permadeath game being released.
While that's not a very good argument for them to use, but your suggestion only muddles the waters.
For instance, I'm against permadeath MMO's (by "against" I mean I wouldn't play one), but I don't have a problem with an idea of a permadeath server. You just won't see me there.
but people that say that no permadeath game should be developed ever instead of just playing games without permadeath (99.9% of them).
Some people may have said that. What a lot of other people said, though, that a permadeath MMO will have trouble being long-term. Then you got arguments about whether one cares about an MMO being long-term.
I don't think people are against having a niche MMO somewhere with permadeath. I think people are mostly imagining permadeath introduced into something like WoW, which obviously wouldn't work out very well at all. When people are against something, it usually means they won't play it. Possibly they won't expect it to succeed. Either of those are valid. They may be wrong, but valid.
I can understand your sentiment but when you are creating a misleading title like this, generalizing people who are against permadeath as "haters", you're only generating animosity and mudding up the waters.
If your not willing to lose it all you aint playin right bitches!! LOL @ U.
You say you play for fun, but you lie lie lie!!! You play for real, not for fun. Permadeath is the "Most Fun" any feature could provide if "some" would get their achievment fix from women instead of role playing games. Little themespankers.
Reverse hate works too. If ya cant beat em, join em.
I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option.
This was the opinion of some users of this forum and I saw it many times here, and so is not my opinion, I was just stating how far permadeath haters go, at the point of not only not playing the permadeath games (few games, if any), but saying that no permadeath game should be developed, ever, and the guys that like it can just delete your char when they die in a normal mmorpg.
Wanting that NO ONE make mmorpg with permadeath would be like saying something like: "artists should stop releasing metal songs, release something else, stop releasing metal stuff" and then when they see someone is forming a metal band they would say "your idea is bad, dont form a metal band, dont release metal music, release/play something else."
Also I am pretty sure there problably some mmorpg out there that dont let you delete your char, making this "delete your char when you die" idea impossible.
Also, are you saying that even this type of permadeath idea/gameplay (a idea that is not even exactly permadeath gameplay) you would say, "I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option"?
Anyway, answering your question, the idea of the thread was to see, if even with this permadeath idea that changes almost nothing to the ones that want to play without permadeath (other than having to die once to go to the server), people would still say permadeath should be banned/never made into mmorpgs.
Although I have seen plenty of people saying that they don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market, I have not seen anyone argue that such should be banned or that companies should not be allowed to develop such a game if they choose. I have seen plenty of people say that they dont think it would be a good idea financially, but that is something else entirely.
Personally I think that optional permadeath is a fine idea. I have used it myself. On the other hand I would not play a game with character development in which it was mandatory. Even your variant (which isnt perma-death at all really) would put me off. I would not spend a dime on such a game.
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market. This means that those asking for it are not seeking it for themselves, they are seeking to impose it on others. Why do those who want permadeath for themselves care how others are playing ? Why do they feel that it is appropriate to try dictating to others how they should play ? Is it a matter of ego ? Is it a matter of wanting an means of "hurting" other players ? Is it a desire for a means of griefing ?
I mean, you have it already for yourself. Why are you advocating for a means of forcing it on others ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option.
This was the opinion of some users of this forum and I saw it many times here, and so is not my opinion, I was just stating how far permadeath haters go, at the point of not only not playing the permadeath games (few games, if any), but saying that no permadeath game should be developed, ever, and the guys that like it can just delete your char when they die in a normal mmorpg.
Wanting that NO ONE make mmorpg with permadeath would be like saying something like: "artists should stop releasing metal songs, release something else, stop releasing metal stuff" and then when they see someone is forming a metal band they would say "your idea is bad, dont form a metal band, dont release metal music, release/play something else."
Also I am pretty sure there problably some mmorpg out there that dont let you delete your char, making this "delete your char when you die" idea impossible.
Also, are you saying that even this type of permadeath idea/gameplay (a idea that is not even exactly permadeath gameplay) you would say, "I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option"?
Anyway, answering your question, the idea of the thread was to see, if even with this permadeath idea that changes almost nothing to the ones that want to play without permadeath (other than having to die once to go to the server), people would still say permadeath should be banned/never made into mmorpgs.
Although I have seen plenty of people saying that they don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market, I have not seen anyone argue that such should be banned or that companies should not be allowed to develop such a game if they choose. I have seen plenty of people say that they dont think it would be a good idea financially, but that is something else entirely.
Personally I think that optional permadeath is a fine idea. I have used it myself. On the other hand I would not play a game with character development in which it was mandatory. Even your variant (which isnt perma-death at all really) would put me off. I would not spend a dime on such a game.
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market. This means that those asking for it are not seeking it for themselves, they are seeking to impose it on others. Why do those who want permadeath for themselves care how others are playing ? Why do they feel that it is appropriate to try dictating to others how they should play ? Is it a matter of ego ? Is it a matter of wanting an means of "hurting" other players ? Is it a desire for a means of griefing ?
I mean, you have it already for yourself. Why are you advocating for a means of forcing it on others ?
Lol. It's a matter of it being a game. Everyone plays by the same rules or its stupid. Are you serious?
If it's a good game people will flock to it regardless of the rules. That's a fact.
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market.
This is false and one thing I am going to agree with the OP on is that this is a very stupid thing to say.
Saying everyone can choose to have permadeath in a game by deleting their character is about as stupid as saying anyone who wants fulldrop in a game can just drop all their gear when they're about to die or something. People who want a permadeath MMO obviously want an MMO where that is an integrated mechanic and therefore affects the way the rest of the game functions.
It's not forced on you anymore than you are forced to play Darkfall.
There's a reason Diablo has an SC and HC mode. By your logic, the HC mode shouldn't exist, eh? Well, Blizzard disagrees with you and they probably have very good reasons that you, for some reason, can't stop and thnk about.
Originally posted by Fikusthe4th
If it's a good game people will flock to it regardless of the rules. That's a fact.
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market.
This is false and one thing I am going to agree with the OP on is that this is a very stupid thing to say.
Saying everyone can choose to have permadeath in a game by deleting their character is about as stupid as saying anyone who wants fulldrop in a game can just drop all their gear when they're about to die or something. People who want a permadeath MMO obviously want an MMO where that is an integrated mechanic and therefore affects the way the rest of the game functions.
It's not forced on you anymore than you are forced to play Darkfall.
There's a reason Diablo has an SC and HC mode. By your logic, the HC mode shouldn't exist, eh? Well, Blizzard disagrees with you and they probably have very good reasons that you, for some reason, can't stop and thnk about.
Originally posted by Fikusthe4th
If it's a good game people will flock to it regardless of the rules. That's a fact.
Err, some people will "flock" to it, I guess.
EVE is a good game but I don't want to play it.
Perhaps you do not understand the meaning of the word, "false." You likely meant to say, "factually correct," as my statement is just that. Unless of course you can provide an example of games in which one cannot delete one's character upon its death. I did use the disclaimer, "that I know of."
Happy I could help with your vocabulary.
Now, as I stated previously, since one has the option for perma death on their characters now, arguing for increasing its presense is asking, not that it be there for you, but that it be required for others.
As to it not benig forced, in a game with perma-death, would someone who normally likes required perma-death have the option to not be affected by it no a case by case basis ? If not, then it is being forced upon them in any instance in which they would not want it, even if they do prefer it normally.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Originally posted by exdeathbr While that's not a very good argument for them to use, but your suggestion only muddles the waters.
For instance, I'm against permadeath MMO's (by "against" I mean I wouldn't play one), but I don't have a problem with an idea of a permadeath server. You just won't see me there.
but people that say that no permadeath game should be developed ever instead of just playing games without permadeath (99.9% of them).
In fact i saw some people complaining even about permadeath servers, when they complain they usually say permadeath servers would split the userbase.
Some people may have said that. What a lot of other people said, though, that a permadeath MMO will have trouble being long-term. Then you got arguments about whether one cares about an MMO being long-term.
I don't think people are against having a niche MMO somewhere with permadeath. I think people are mostly imagining permadeath introduced into something like WoW, which obviously wouldn't work out very well at all. When people are against something, it usually means they won't play it. Possibly they won't expect it to succeed. Either of those are valid. They may be wrong, but valid.
Many people here say that they are against the idea of permadeath, many people say they shouldnt make it into games. This happens not only here, on some forums about mmorpg games that are being developed with permadeath, not only being developed with permadeath but with it being a important feature to him, in his mmorpg idea, people start to complain saying how he should remove it from game or if he even started to develop it yet complain how he should do another idea.
The idea of my "permadeath" idea is that the idea would works for those guys, the ones that want permadeath, as they would be able to play the game and then after daying would not be able to come back to universe A and would need to delete their char to come back.
And also please the guys that hate permadeath at the point of baning from every game . Those guys would just die quickly and continue the game in a 100% similar game without permadeath.
There is nothing wrong against hating permadeath as there is nothing against not liking loud music, but there is a difference about hating it and wanting to black metal, death metal, loud electronic music bands to be extinct.
Originally posted by Ashen_X
Although I have seen plenty of people saying that they don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market, I have not seen anyone argue that such should be banned or that companies should not be allowed to develop such a game if they choose. I have seen plenty of people say that they dont think it would be a good idea financially, but that is something else entirely.
What is the difference between they saying they "don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market" and someone saying companies should not be allowed to chose that?
Originally posted by Ashen_X
Personally I think that optional permadeath is a fine idea. I have used it myself. On the other hand I would not play a game with character development in which it was mandatory. Even your variant (which isnt perma-death at all really) would put me off. I would not spend a dime on such a game.
So, you hate mandatory permadeath and because of that would not play my game? How is my game different from a normal game? Just
1-Create your char
2-Go to a area with monster
3-Remove your hands from mouse and keyboard
4-Die
5-Start a game like any other no permadeath game.
Originally posted by Ashen_X
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market. This means that those asking for it are not seeking it for themselves, they are seeking to impose it on others. Why do those who want permadeath for themselves care how others are playing ? Why do they feel that it is appropriate to try dictating to others how they should play ? Is it a matter of ego ? Is it a matter of wanting an means of "hurting" other players ? Is it a desire for a means of griefing ?
I mean, you have it already for yourself. Why are you advocating for a means of forcing it on others ?
They are not forcing permadeath on others, you dont need to play permadeath games in the same way that no one if forcing guys that hate loud music to listen to death metal. Just play all the others mmorpg without permadeath that exist on the (market more than 99%)
Originally posted by Volkon
You need an option for simply having no interest in permadeath in any form. No hate involved, just a complete and total disinterest.
The idea already has it and is called "quickly dying with your char when you start a game and starting in universe B without caring about permadeath stuff (a thing that just exist in universe A)".
I definitely like the concept and think it brings a different element to games, would love to see it made in games, the only thing that concerns me though is pvp and other members "ganging" up on others. However overall it would add in an exciting feature and single out skill i suppose, anyone who disagrees with the basic system is obviously one of those "easy mmo" fanboys.
Although I have seen plenty of people saying that they don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market, I have not seen anyone argue that such should be banned or that companies should not be allowed to develop such a game if they choose. I have seen plenty of people say that they dont think it would be a good idea financially, but that is something else entirely.
What is the difference between they saying they "don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market" and someone saying companies should not be allowed to chose that?
Is this a real question ? Do you not see the difference between advocating for something to not be allowed,a dn saying that you dont see the point in it ? On the chance that you really do not understand the difference, I will explain.
If X is not allowed to exist, then not even those very interested in its existence can partake of it.
If someone doesnt see the point in something it is merely a matter of personal insight.
For example, I am red/green color blind. I do not see the point of using red paint for cars, as it looks grey to me. My opinion on that matter does not prevent you, or anyone else, from enjoying your red sportscar.
Now, the one exception to this distinction between sying that one does not care for something and saing that it should not be allowed to exist (I am still flabbergasted that its possible for someone to not immediately recognize the difference between, "I dont like this," and, "this should not be allowed to exist.") is that if not enough people like X, then companies are not likely to produce it. And that is how it should be. A product that is not financially viable probably should not be produced.
As another example here, I dislike the vast majority of rap music. But I am firmly of the opinion that just because I dont, "see," the merit in something does not reflect on its right to exist.
Originally posted by Ashen_X
Personally I think that optional permadeath is a fine idea. I have used it myself. On the other hand I would not play a game with character development in which it was mandatory. Even your variant (which isnt perma-death at all really) would put me off. I would not spend a dime on such a game.
So, you hate mandatory permadeath and because of that would not play my game? How is my game different from a normal game? Just
1-Create your char
2-Go to a area with monster
3-Remove your hands from mouse and keyboard
4-Die
5-Start a game like any other no permadeath game.
Can I continue to play the character that just died along side the friends with whom he was created to team (without them having to suicide in order to follow me to server ?
How can you even ask in what way your game is different from a normal MMO ? Your whole position is that your game would be different from a normal MMO. If your game was exactly the same as a normal MMO there would be no point to suggesting it.
Originally posted by Ashen_X
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market. This means that those asking for it are not seeking it for themselves, they are seeking to impose it on others. Why do those who want permadeath for themselves care how others are playing ? Why do they feel that it is appropriate to try dictating to others how they should play ? Is it a matter of ego ? Is it a matter of wanting an means of "hurting" other players ? Is it a desire for a means of griefing ?
I mean, you have it already for yourself. Why are you advocating for a means of forcing it on others ?
They are not forcing permadeath on others, you dont need to play permadeath games in the same way that no one if forcing guys that hate loud music to listen to death metal. Just play all the others mmorpg without permadeath that exist on the (market more than 99%)
Even someone who like a perma-death option (such as myself) may not wish to deal with it under certain circumstances. Unless you are arguing for perma-death to be optional on an instance by instance basis, you are speaking of having it be forced (at least on occasion).
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Interesting post OP. Has anyone used a system similar?
In musing this, how about a,b,c,d,e ... z ?
Z would be final since we ran out of letters. Die there, then what? Or is making it to Z such an embarassment that it's time to give up.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
anyone who disagrees with the basic system is obviously one of those "easy mmo" fanboys.
Yes, of course. /sarcasm
And if permadeath doesnt mean adding permadeath to WoW it isnt really permadeath. If you dont lose 6 months of silly grinding for boots and levels every time you die, thats not really permadeath. The sarcasm goes both ways too.
What is the difference between they saying they "don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market" and someone saying companies should not be allowed to chose that?
Is this a real question ? Do you not see the difference between advocating for something to not be allowed,a dn saying that you dont see the point in it ? On the chance that you really do not understand the difference, I will explain.
If X is not allowed to exist, then not even those very interested in its existence can partake of it.
If someone doesnt see the point in something it is merely a matter of personal insight.
For example, I am red/green color blind. I do not see the point of using red paint for cars, as it looks grey to me. My opinion on that matter does not prevent you, or anyone else, from enjoying your red sportscar.
Now, the one exception to this distinction between sying that one does not care for something and saing that it should not be allowed to exist (I am still flabbergasted that its possible for someone to not immediately recognize the difference between, "I dont like this," and, "this should not be allowed to exist.") is that if not enough people like X, then companies are not likely to produce it. And that is how it should be. A product that is not financially viable probably should not be produced.
As another example here, I dislike the vast majority of rap music. But I am firmly of the opinion that just because I dont, "see," the merit in something does not reflect on its right to exist.
Some say they dont see the point of it and why they dont just take a picture of something. And other see the point of it but dont like this painting genre.
Originally posted by exdeathbr
Originally posted by Ashen_X
Personally I think that optional permadeath is a fine idea. I have used it myself. On the other hand I would not play a game with character development in which it was mandatory. Even your variant (which isnt perma-death at all really) would put me off. I would not spend a dime on such a game.
So, you hate mandatory permadeath and because of that would not play my game? How is my game different from a normal game? Just
1-Create your char
2-Go to a area with monster
3-Remove your hands from mouse and keyboard
4-Die
5-Start a game like any other no permadeath game.
Can I continue to play the character that just died along side the friends with whom he was created to team (without them having to suicide in order to follow me to server ?
How can you even ask in what way your game is different from a normal MMO ? Your whole position is that your game would be different from a normal MMO. If your game was exactly the same as a normal MMO there would be no point to suggesting it.
You CAN'T play with guys on universe A if you are the universe B.
The thing is, if you HATE permadeath, you will die quickly to go to universe B and so not spend time on universe A.
If you LOVE permadeath when you die you will delete your char and start a new one to go to universe A and so will always be able to play with guys from server A.
If you and your friends are started to play the game and some want permadeath and other dont, well this problem would happen even if instead of this universe A, universe B thing, you had two different servers, one with permadeath and other without it. Some of your friends would want to go to permadeath server and some dont and you woulndt be able to play with some of them.
Originally posted by
How can you even ask in what way your game is different from a normal MMO ? Your whole position is that your game would be different from a normal MMO. If your game was exactly the same as a normal MMO there would be no point to suggesting it.
It would be different because on universe A you would have a entire "game" with permadeath affecting it entirely, but if you dont like it, you can just quickly die to go to universe B, a normal game where permadeath NEVER affect it.
Its different in a way that you fully have both stuff (permadeath or not) in a way that the non permadeath stuff dont mess around with the permadeath one. But its similar to a normal mmorpg in a way you can just quickly die and start to play your normal mmorpg.
Originally posted by exdeathbr
Originally posted by Ashen_X
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market. This means that those asking for it are not seeking it for themselves, they are seeking to impose it on others. Why do those who want permadeath for themselves care how others are playing ? Why do they feel that it is appropriate to try dictating to others how they should play ? Is it a matter of ego ? Is it a matter of wanting an means of "hurting" other players ? Is it a desire for a means of griefing ?
I mean, you have it already for yourself. Why are you advocating for a means of forcing it on others ?
They are not forcing permadeath on others, you dont need to play permadeath games in the same way that no one if forcing guys that hate loud music to listen to death metal. Just play all the others mmorpg without permadeath that exist on the (market more than 99%)
Even someone who like a perma-death option (such as myself) may not wish to deal with it under certain circumstances. Unless you are arguing for perma-death to be optional on an instance by instance basis, you are speaking of having it be forced (at least on occasion).
If you dont wish to play under some circunstancies, just dont play the permadeath game, they will be few, almost to none. Its like justin bieber, if you hate him, just dont' listen, no one is forcing you to listen to justin bieber and justin bieber don't make people release less metal albums, experimental electronic music albums, jazz albums, punk rock albums....
Its liking saying that justing bieber must be killed or stop doing music (a thing people say and in few/some cases are problably serious) because you can't stand something even near him.
Originally posted by XAPGames
Interesting post OP. Has anyone used a system similar?
In musing this, how about a,b,c,d,e ... z ?
Z would be final since we ran out of letters. Die there, then what? Or is making it to Z such an embarassment that it's time to give up.
My idea was to have both the fully made permadeath game (universe A) with the fully made non-permadeath game (universe B with players being able to go to universe B from start without losing skills or gear) into one game.
If the char is removed when he dies in universe Z, this would be just some sort of" life count is 26 permadeath system" (with 25 layers of heavens), and that would still be a permadeath system only game (but a system that is softer than the die only and char is removed, system.
About playing being embarassed on universe Z, if the guy dont like permadeath, he would say in server Z, the reason I proposed my idea is to fit both stuff in one game, if its ok to exist a game with permadeath only, then a system like the one I am saying in the first post is not needed.
Also if the guy dont die in the universe Z, your idea would be a 25 life count permadeath system (with 24 layers of heaven), with a non permadeath system at the same time.
Interesting post OP. Has anyone used a system similar?
In musing this, how about a,b,c,d,e ... z ?
Z would be final since we ran out of letters. Die there, then what? Or is making it to Z such an embarassment that it's time to give up.
I doubt a system like described would work, mainly because the game would have to be designed around two diametrally opposed ways to play. Things like whether gear is important or not, how easy/hard it is to achieve, is there an endgame and what is it like, is it full PvP or there's PvE on it and so on.
For example, if there's an PvE endgame and gear is important on it if you make it relatively hard to do the first and get the second then it would be practically guaranteed that nobody on the permadeath server will ever get to them, while if you make it relatively easier for the PD server, then the people on the non PD server will just blast trough it and will end up with a TOR, with people leaving and complaining because there's nothing to do at level cap.
If both servers are 100% the same it would be extremely hard to balance it for both playstyles, IMGO
This forum is expert at going off on tangents about definitions and playing word games. Pedantically arguing over meanings of terms like permadeath or sandbox or role playing as if that will win some kind of point.
The thing is, if you HATE permadeath, you will die quickly to go to universe B and so not spend time on universe A.
If you LOVE permadeath when you die you will delete your char and start a new one to go to universe A and so will always be able to play with guys from server A.
It would be different because on universe A you would have a entire "game" with permadeath affecting it entirely, but if you dont like it, you can just quickly die to go to universe B, a normal game where permadeath NEVER affect it.
Its different in a way that you fully have both stuff (permadeath or not) in a way that the non permadeath stuff dont mess around with the permadeath one. But its similar to a normal mmorpg in a way you can just quickly die and start to play your normal mmorpg.
If you dont wish to play under some circunstancies, just dont play the permadeath game, they will be few, almost to none. Its like justin bieber, if you hate him, just dont' listen, no one is forcing you to listen to justin bieber and justin bieber don't make people release less metal albums, experimental electronic music albums, jazz albums, punk rock albums....
Its liking saying that justing bieber must be killed or stop doing music (a thing people say and in few/some cases are problably serious) because you can't stand something even near him.
What you are describing there is a situation where perma death is a personal choice made by the individual player, largely on a character by character basis. Which is what is already available in every game on the market. Those that LOVE permadeath can delete a character that dies, those who HATE permadeath can choose not to.
THe only difference is that in most current games a player that loves permadeath cannot force it on someone who does not. If I am playing on server A, in your example, with my friends someone I do not know can impact my ability to continue to do so. I am not saying that a game of this sort must not be created, or even that it should not be. I am saying that I wouldn't play it, and that I dont see the point of introducing a game for, apparently, the sole purpose of adding the ability for one player to be able to tell another player what server he is allowed to play on. Again, you arent asking for any form of permadeath to be added for yourself because you already have as much of that option as can exist. You have access to anything from 0% permadeath up to 100% for your own characters.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
What you are describing there is a situation where perma death is a personal choice made by the individual player, largely on a character by character basis. Which is what is already available in every game on the market. Those that LOVE permadeath can delete a character that dies, those who HATE permadeath can choose not to.
In universe A the permadeath is not a choice, you cant go back to universe A if you die (unless you create a new char), you can't play together with the guys that like permadeath (that so, will stay in universe A and create a new char if they die to continue to be on universe A).
Permadeath system influence the entire universe A, and all the things that permadeath system bring to a game (and that the permadeath lovers like), will happen to universe A.
Deleting your char when you die in a normal game would not bring the same experiences.
As a example in a game where monsters NPC attack a city, players would be able to go back to the city when they die and help the others (excluding the players that said "i will delete my char as I die). On a game with permadeath all players would need to create a new char when they die, so you will have less reinforcements helping you in this battle.
This is just one example of permadeath system can affect the game, but would not affect you when you are doing it in a normal game.
PS: Not saying this npcs attacking cities will help in my first post idea, i am just using it as a example to show how permadeath would affect your gameplay in a way that deleting your char alone in a normal mmorpg would not affect.
Originally posted by Ashen_X THe only difference is that in most current games a player that loves permadeath cannot force it on someone who does not. If I am playing on server A, in your example, with my friends someone I do not know can impact my ability to continue to do so. I am not saying that a game of this sort must not be created, or even that it should not be. I am saying that I wouldn't play it, and that I dont see the point of introducing a game for, apparently, the sole purpose of adding the ability for one player to be able to tell another player what server he is allowed to play on. Again, you arent asking for any form of permadeath to be added for yourself because you already have as much of that option as can exist. You have access to anything from 0% permadeath up to 100% for your own characters.
In this idea permadeath lovers can't also force someone who does not like permadeath to create a new char everytime they die and then stay in universe A. The guy that don't like permadeath can go to universe B quickly when they create a char and without affecting their char (since there is no full loot and so they will start like a fresh char in universe .
Also, no one will impact your ability of playing on universe A because you can just create a new char and continue to play in universe A. In fact, if you want you can use one slot for a permanent char that you will play in a non permadeath way (in universe and other for chars being played in permadeath way (and so you will delete the char and create a new one every single time you die).
This game is not about telling the other player what universe is allowed to play on (he can play on both, he will just need 2 chars).
This idea was made because of users that say that NO PERMADEATH GAME SHOULD BE EVER MADE, making a game that have both sides (permadeath and non permadeath) in a 100% similar ruleset/gameplay, so you still don't have permadeath to those that would complain about a game having it, and would still have permadeath for the guys that want to see/play one game with it.
Originally posted by Cephus404
That's a ridiculous concept. I'd start in Universe B and be done with it.
That is what permadeath haters should do (and why the game is also not permadeath), start the game with their char, die quickly and go to universe B. That is also why this idea was made, to make permadeath haters not experience a permadeath gameplay.
Just to clarify, this is same DP Path of the Exile uses, isn't it?
I don't like how DP affects the community and metagame. It kills PUGs, it kills proper PvP and brings out the coward inside everyone - nobody takes risks and all PvP boils down to ganking and cat 'n' mouse games. Bah. Thats why I'd pick B over A.
With a more traditional DP the recovering from losses is a pain in the ass. Its not worth it - not worth it at all. I don't get the gambler's rush some people get when dear dying. I don't get the high. Its just an annoyance - a burden - an inconvenience. No thank you. Losing is quite enough penalty for me. I don't need anyone's fist up my arse to make it really hurt.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
As far as I'm concerned, permadeath only has one implementation.
If you die, your character and associated character attributes (skills, XP, name, affiliation, whatever) dies (not to be confused with loss of money, gear, etc.). For good. All else is no longer permadeath but something else.
What you're describing is the Path of Exile Hardcore management system and I don't like it. I prefer when Hardcore just kills my character. Otherwise, it kinda feels diminished, like they don't really die (because they don't). I further prefer HC and SC to be completely separate, while moving an HC character to SC muddles the waters. In PoE, it transferred your gear and everything.
As far as I'm concerned PoE HC is not permadeath. Call it what it is, "character transfer on death".
I think what a lot of people confuse with permadeath are "harsh death penalties". For instance, EVE has a lot of those. Your clone can actually die and stuff. But it's not permadeath, it's extensive punishing loss mechanics. That's what they are, please call them that, stop calling death mechanics "permadeath" when they do not involve 100% losing your character forever (EVE equivalent of losing all your skills when your clone dies).
Discussion of harsh loss penalties is a whole other issue entirely. Full loot is a harsh loss penalty. I advise not to discuss too many different topics in a thread at once. Pick one and center on it, or broaden the thread overall (i.e., hardcore playstyles vs casual playstyles).
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As for the rest of your thread.
What you're describing is not complaining about permadeath. Complaining about permadeath would be going on DayZ forums and saying how the game shouldn't have permadeath. What you're describing is opposition towards permadeath in future products. I'm not sure why you seem so insulted (I presume this from you using certain terms such as "haters") by people not sharing your love towards permadeath in MMO's. I also want to ask why you are trying to convince other people to like something they don't like? Why can't we just sit on server B? My question to you: what is the point of this system?
Since this is an MMO forum, I discuss permadeath in terms of MMO's. I believe the following to be true:
a) No MMO with permadeath will be a terribly serious thing for me. I will not play it for long. I will not get invested in it. I believe this is true for a lot of people out there;
b) An MMO with permadeath will be very limited in terms of what kind of features it will implement, since being a permadeath-centered MMO changes a lot of things drastically; permadeath MMO's are pigeonholed into very specific playstyles and subgenres.
Those two reasons are enough for me to have 0 interest in a permadeath MMO. I'll play an FFA PvP MMO before then.
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On the other hand, I frequently play ARPG's or single player games with permadeath. Mostly because many of these games are:
a) games are usually easy and not too long. Surviving in DII is not that hard. DIII considerably harder, but still not that difficult; surviving in FFA PvP games can often be virtually impossible; if you die in DIII, you don't lose that much, because it doesn't take that much effort to get up again;
b) often we start playing permadeath after we beat the game many times as an additional challege. Permadeath mode is often a secondary thing you can choose, rarely a forced feature;
c) I highlight SP games because SP games do not have a persistent community. While you do have some degree of a Hardcore DII scene with Hostile where you can argue there can be some persistence, that's such a tiny percentage of the already tiny HC population.
MMO's, on the other hand, are permadeath-through-persistent. What the hell do I mean with this? I mean that when you kill some guy, yeah, he dies. But then he creates a new character again. Sometimes it's going to be easier to die and start over than bother surviving. Because MMO's are persistent and permadeath doesn't persist beyond the MMO world, there are gonna arise some weird things (which I'm sure happened in DayZ already) where permadeath sort of loses its meaning and death cycles on the server where everyone eventually dies since nobody actually dies for good. In my view, this is not really permadeath anymore, no more than dying in Quake. It's just an arena with long respawn timers. I don't think permadeath can work in MMO's.
This was the opinion of some users of this forum and I saw it many times here, and so is not my opinion, I was just stating how far permadeath haters go, at the point of not only not playing the permadeath games (few games, if any), but saying that no permadeath game should be developed, ever, and the guys that like it can just delete your char when they die in a normal mmorpg.
Wanting that NO ONE make mmorpg with permadeath would be like saying something like: "artists should stop releasing metal songs, release something else, stop releasing metal stuff" and then when they see someone is forming a metal band they would say "your idea is bad, dont form a metal band, dont release metal music, release/play something else."
Also I am pretty sure there problably some mmorpg out there that dont let you delete your char, making this "delete your char when you die" idea impossible.
Also, are you saying that even this type of permadeath idea/gameplay (a idea that is not even exactly permadeath gameplay) you would say, "I really don't get the point of this sort of thread. As you pointed out in the OP, anyone who wants permadeath of any sort in any MMO already has that option"?
Anyway, answering your question, the idea of the thread was to see, if even with this permadeath idea that changes almost nothing to the ones that want to play without permadeath (other than having to die once to go to the server), people would still say permadeath should be banned/never made into mmorpgs.
Some users here on this forum that dont like full loot, would problably hate it even in a mmorpg with ZERO pvp (instancied or not).
Also the idea about the game not being full loot was to make the game even less permadeath. You dont even need to lose your items to go to the non permadeath universe B, you can just start the game, go as fast to a place with monsters and then die to go to universe B.
Your idea is not permadeath.
So your thread is saying "so, I have this idea that is not permadeath. Are people still against permadeath?"
That doesn't make much sense, does it?
Yes, many of us are against permadeath.
What you brought up is a harsh loss penalty. If you want to discuss harsh loss penalties, make a thread about harsh loss penalties, instead of setting up flamebait because it pisses you off that God forbid some people don't like losing their characters in MMO's.
My idea is not permadeath and I know it. The thing is that people already complained about almost every single real pemadeath ideas here, as the point of calling people that ask for a game with permadeath to just delete their chars in a normal game, no need to a permadeath game being released.
So I decided to see if even with this idea that is not even permadeath, people would complain at the point of saying stuff like just play your game and delete the chars that die.
I am not complaining about people that would not play a game that has permadeath, that hate losing their chars, but people that say that no permadeath game should be developed ever instead of just playing games without permadeath (99.9% of them).
Explaining with a analogy, there is a difference of saying "I dont like loud music" with "few people like loud music, so stop to create death metal albums, if you want loud music just make your speakers volume higher".
If your not willing to lose it all you aint playin right bitches!! LOL @ U.
You say you play for fun, but you lie lie lie!!! You play for real, not for fun. Permadeath is the "Most Fun" any feature could provide if "some" would get their achievment fix from women instead of role playing games. Little themespankers.
Reverse hate works too. If ya cant beat em, join em.
Im not serious.
Although I have seen plenty of people saying that they don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market, I have not seen anyone argue that such should be banned or that companies should not be allowed to develop such a game if they choose. I have seen plenty of people say that they dont think it would be a good idea financially, but that is something else entirely.
Personally I think that optional permadeath is a fine idea. I have used it myself. On the other hand I would not play a game with character development in which it was mandatory. Even your variant (which isnt perma-death at all really) would put me off. I would not spend a dime on such a game.
So, again, perma death is already available to everyone who wants it, in every game on the market. This means that those asking for it are not seeking it for themselves, they are seeking to impose it on others. Why do those who want permadeath for themselves care how others are playing ? Why do they feel that it is appropriate to try dictating to others how they should play ? Is it a matter of ego ? Is it a matter of wanting an means of "hurting" other players ? Is it a desire for a means of griefing ?
I mean, you have it already for yourself. Why are you advocating for a means of forcing it on others ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Lol. It's a matter of it being a game. Everyone plays by the same rules or its stupid. Are you serious?
If it's a good game people will flock to it regardless of the rules. That's a fact.
This is false and one thing I am going to agree with the OP on is that this is a very stupid thing to say.
Saying everyone can choose to have permadeath in a game by deleting their character is about as stupid as saying anyone who wants fulldrop in a game can just drop all their gear when they're about to die or something. People who want a permadeath MMO obviously want an MMO where that is an integrated mechanic and therefore affects the way the rest of the game functions.
It's not forced on you anymore than you are forced to play Darkfall.
There's a reason Diablo has an SC and HC mode. By your logic, the HC mode shouldn't exist, eh? Well, Blizzard disagrees with you and they probably have very good reasons that you, for some reason, can't stop and thnk about.
Err, some people will "flock" to it, I guess.
EVE is a good game but I don't want to play it.
Perhaps you do not understand the meaning of the word, "false." You likely meant to say, "factually correct," as my statement is just that. Unless of course you can provide an example of games in which one cannot delete one's character upon its death. I did use the disclaimer, "that I know of."
Happy I could help with your vocabulary.
Now, as I stated previously, since one has the option for perma death on their characters now, arguing for increasing its presense is asking, not that it be there for you, but that it be required for others.
As to it not benig forced, in a game with perma-death, would someone who normally likes required perma-death have the option to not be affected by it no a case by case basis ? If not, then it is being forced upon them in any instance in which they would not want it, even if they do prefer it normally.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
You need an option for simply having no interest in permadeath in any form. No hate involved, just a complete and total disinterest.
Oderint, dum metuant.
In fact i saw some people complaining even about permadeath servers, when they complain they usually say permadeath servers would split the userbase.
Many people here say that they are against the idea of permadeath, many people say they shouldnt make it into games. This happens not only here, on some forums about mmorpg games that are being developed with permadeath, not only being developed with permadeath but with it being a important feature to him, in his mmorpg idea, people start to complain saying how he should remove it from game or if he even started to develop it yet complain how he should do another idea.
The idea of my "permadeath" idea is that the idea would works for those guys, the ones that want permadeath, as they would be able to play the game and then after daying would not be able to come back to universe A and would need to delete their char to come back.
And also please the guys that hate permadeath at the point of baning from every game . Those guys would just die quickly and continue the game in a 100% similar game without permadeath.
There is nothing wrong against hating permadeath as there is nothing against not liking loud music, but there is a difference about hating it and wanting to black metal, death metal, loud electronic music bands to be extinct.
What is the difference between they saying they "don't see the point in an enforced perma-death game when perma-death is already present as an option in every single game on the market" and someone saying companies should not be allowed to chose that?
So, you hate mandatory permadeath and because of that would not play my game? How is my game different from a normal game? Just
1-Create your char
2-Go to a area with monster
3-Remove your hands from mouse and keyboard
4-Die
5-Start a game like any other no permadeath game.
They are not forcing permadeath on others, you dont need to play permadeath games in the same way that no one if forcing guys that hate loud music to listen to death metal. Just play all the others mmorpg without permadeath that exist on the (market more than 99%)
The idea already has it and is called "quickly dying with your char when you start a game and starting in universe B without caring about permadeath stuff (a thing that just exist in universe A)".
I definitely like the concept and think it brings a different element to games, would love to see it made in games, the only thing that concerns me though is pvp and other members "ganging" up on others. However overall it would add in an exciting feature and single out skill i suppose, anyone who disagrees with the basic system is obviously one of those "easy mmo" fanboys.
Not a big fan of permadeath, As it usually limits other elements of MMO's that have it. However I am a huge fan of full loot pvp.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Yes, of course. /sarcasm
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Interesting post OP. Has anyone used a system similar?
In musing this, how about a,b,c,d,e ... z ?
Z would be final since we ran out of letters. Die there, then what? Or is making it to Z such an embarassment that it's time to give up.
And if permadeath doesnt mean adding permadeath to WoW it isnt really permadeath. If you dont lose 6 months of silly grinding for boots and levels every time you die, thats not really permadeath. The sarcasm goes both ways too.
Yeah, I got, got it now.
Its like photorealism painting genre, where painters take a picture and try to make a painting that is as close to the photo as possible (a example http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/Glennray_Tutor_1.jpg ).
Some say they dont see the point of it and why they dont just take a picture of something. And other see the point of it but dont like this painting genre.
You CAN'T play with guys on universe A if you are the universe B.
The thing is, if you HATE permadeath, you will die quickly to go to universe B and so not spend time on universe A.
If you LOVE permadeath when you die you will delete your char and start a new one to go to universe A and so will always be able to play with guys from server A.
If you and your friends are started to play the game and some want permadeath and other dont, well this problem would happen even if instead of this universe A, universe B thing, you had two different servers, one with permadeath and other without it. Some of your friends would want to go to permadeath server and some dont and you woulndt be able to play with some of them.
It would be different because on universe A you would have a entire "game" with permadeath affecting it entirely, but if you dont like it, you can just quickly die to go to universe B, a normal game where permadeath NEVER affect it.
Its different in a way that you fully have both stuff (permadeath or not) in a way that the non permadeath stuff dont mess around with the permadeath one. But its similar to a normal mmorpg in a way you can just quickly die and start to play your normal mmorpg.
If you dont wish to play under some circunstancies, just dont play the permadeath game, they will be few, almost to none. Its like justin bieber, if you hate him, just dont' listen, no one is forcing you to listen to justin bieber and justin bieber don't make people release less metal albums, experimental electronic music albums, jazz albums, punk rock albums....
Its liking saying that justing bieber must be killed or stop doing music (a thing people say and in few/some cases are problably serious) because you can't stand something even near him.
My idea was to have both the fully made permadeath game (universe A) with the fully made non-permadeath game (universe B with players being able to go to universe B from start without losing skills or gear) into one game.
If the char is removed when he dies in universe Z, this would be just some sort of" life count is 26 permadeath system" (with 25 layers of heavens), and that would still be a permadeath system only game (but a system that is softer than the die only and char is removed, system.
About playing being embarassed on universe Z, if the guy dont like permadeath, he would say in server Z, the reason I proposed my idea is to fit both stuff in one game, if its ok to exist a game with permadeath only, then a system like the one I am saying in the first post is not needed.
Also if the guy dont die in the universe Z, your idea would be a 25 life count permadeath system (with 24 layers of heaven), with a non permadeath system at the same time.
I doubt a system like described would work, mainly because the game would have to be designed around two diametrally opposed ways to play. Things like whether gear is important or not, how easy/hard it is to achieve, is there an endgame and what is it like, is it full PvP or there's PvE on it and so on.
For example, if there's an PvE endgame and gear is important on it if you make it relatively hard to do the first and get the second then it would be practically guaranteed that nobody on the permadeath server will ever get to them, while if you make it relatively easier for the PD server, then the people on the non PD server will just blast trough it and will end up with a TOR, with people leaving and complaining because there's nothing to do at level cap.
If both servers are 100% the same it would be extremely hard to balance it for both playstyles, IMGO
What can men do against such reckless hate?
This forum is expert at going off on tangents about definitions and playing word games. Pedantically arguing over meanings of terms like permadeath or sandbox or role playing as if that will win some kind of point.
What you are describing there is a situation where perma death is a personal choice made by the individual player, largely on a character by character basis. Which is what is already available in every game on the market. Those that LOVE permadeath can delete a character that dies, those who HATE permadeath can choose not to.
THe only difference is that in most current games a player that loves permadeath cannot force it on someone who does not. If I am playing on server A, in your example, with my friends someone I do not know can impact my ability to continue to do so. I am not saying that a game of this sort must not be created, or even that it should not be. I am saying that I wouldn't play it, and that I dont see the point of introducing a game for, apparently, the sole purpose of adding the ability for one player to be able to tell another player what server he is allowed to play on. Again, you arent asking for any form of permadeath to be added for yourself because you already have as much of that option as can exist. You have access to anything from 0% permadeath up to 100% for your own characters.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
That's a ridiculous concept. I'd start in Universe B and be done with it.
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In universe A the permadeath is not a choice, you cant go back to universe A if you die (unless you create a new char), you can't play together with the guys that like permadeath (that so, will stay in universe A and create a new char if they die to continue to be on universe A).
Permadeath system influence the entire universe A, and all the things that permadeath system bring to a game (and that the permadeath lovers like), will happen to universe A.
Deleting your char when you die in a normal game would not bring the same experiences.
As a example in a game where monsters NPC attack a city, players would be able to go back to the city when they die and help the others (excluding the players that said "i will delete my char as I die). On a game with permadeath all players would need to create a new char when they die, so you will have less reinforcements helping you in this battle.
This is just one example of permadeath system can affect the game, but would not affect you when you are doing it in a normal game.
PS: Not saying this npcs attacking cities will help in my first post idea, i am just using it as a example to show how permadeath would affect your gameplay in a way that deleting your char alone in a normal mmorpg would not affect.
In this idea permadeath lovers can't also force someone who does not like permadeath to create a new char everytime they die and then stay in universe A. The guy that don't like permadeath can go to universe B quickly when they create a char and without affecting their char (since there is no full loot and so they will start like a fresh char in universe
.
Also, no one will impact your ability of playing on universe A because you can just create a new char and continue to play in universe A. In fact, if you want you can use one slot for a permanent char that you will play in a non permadeath way (in universe
and other for chars being played in permadeath way (and so you will delete the char and create a new one every single time you die).
This game is not about telling the other player what universe is allowed to play on (he can play on both, he will just need 2 chars).
This idea was made because of users that say that NO PERMADEATH GAME SHOULD BE EVER MADE, making a game that have both sides (permadeath and non permadeath) in a 100% similar ruleset/gameplay, so you still don't have permadeath to those that would complain about a game having it, and would still have permadeath for the guys that want to see/play one game with it.
That is what permadeath haters should do (and why the game is also not permadeath), start the game with their char, die quickly and go to universe B. That is also why this idea was made, to make permadeath haters not experience a permadeath gameplay.
Just to clarify, this is same DP Path of the Exile uses, isn't it?
I don't like how DP affects the community and metagame. It kills PUGs, it kills proper PvP and brings out the coward inside everyone - nobody takes risks and all PvP boils down to ganking and cat 'n' mouse games. Bah. Thats why I'd pick B over A.
With a more traditional DP the recovering from losses is a pain in the ass. Its not worth it - not worth it at all. I don't get the gambler's rush some people get when dear dying. I don't get the high. Its just an annoyance - a burden - an inconvenience. No thank you. Losing is quite enough penalty for me. I don't need anyone's fist up my arse to make it really hurt.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky