The themepark way of life is committing suicide. The entire concept requires rewards and incentives to get people to do what they wouldnt normally do. Money is the only reward that will work at this point. If your still questing for gear and levels to own nubs, the ladies may not be impressed with you anymore.
Just saying. Building your own city and defending it is HOT now. In game property or control of property. (not what I would have chose) Talk to the women if you don't like it. We tried telling all of you a year or so ago. They control the hipsters.
All it means is themepark players will be nerds again. Not too bad.
There was a huge anticipation for SWTOR though (despite drawing in many nay sayers too), and a huge anticipation for GW2 now.
Personally I bet most of those sandbox fans have played even more themepark games and have good reasons for being tired of all the gameplay on rails. Problem is, they don't much choice apart from bitching about the lack of AAA sandboxes on the forums.
They actually have choices but 'they' have continued to show up in small numbers from an investor/commercial point of view.
Wurm online, EVE, Tale in the desert etc are all there.
But players who are paying for a 'sandbox' are smaller than 'themepark'.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
But what do you people think, do you think that sandbox fans make up the majority of the mmorpg.com visitors/posters? I think it's larger, maybe even far larger, percentage than on other game and MMO sites, but that's just my impression.
MMORPG.com is an old site, from years before WoW changed the MMORPG landscape. As such you have many people here (amongst them me) that joinded the genre and this site before the genre went into mainstream.
The genre has changed so much in the last 8 years that it's a completely different experience now. What you perceive as "sandbox fans" are really not only sandbox fans but equally people that want the gameplay of older MMORPGs back.
I agree with this. (Myself actually visited this site for years before I signed up)
I dont know who has it worst... the people that never played DaoC / SWG and were introduced by WoW or the people that have played the older games and saw MMO's go mainstream. I know most people that play mmo's prefer themeparks but im going to go on a stretch and say 70% of the gamers out there dont know what thier doing and themeparks do enough hand-holding to get them through otherwise they would of quit.
I love Darksouls for Xbox... my younger brother saw me playing one day thought it was cool went out and bought the game... 2 weeks in he quit because he died and lost all his souls. I explained to him that iv lost millions of souls but he couldnt stomach losing 26k... these are the gamers of today (this was a console game mind you). My brother and I have this "Sandbox vs Themepark" arguements all them time and the way things are going there will probably never see a AAA sandbox mmo... even though we both agreed that sandbox-type game would be more enjoyable. 1. Nobody wants to risk losing $$$ on their investment ... 2. MMO's have been introduced to a community that really shouldnt be playing MMO's
Goat meat is the most consumed meat worldwide out of both chicken and beef ... that doesnt mean it taste better
just because sandbox players are vehement in their expressions of praise or derision does not mean they (we) are in the majority.
just because mmorpg.com has a vocal sandbox user base does not mean the majority of that base are sandbox gamers.
i do think there is a 'refugee' group of sandboxers, but i don't think they are the primary users. there are far too many games here with high scores and positive reviews which purists (not me) would never touch.
let's not paint either this site or its user base into a corner.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I agree with this. (Myself actually visited this site for years before I signed up)
I dont know who has it worst... the people that never played DaoC / SWG and were introduced by WoW or the people that have played the older games and saw MMO's go mainstream. I know most people that play mmo's prefer themeparks but im going to go on a stretch and say 70% of the gamers out there dont know what thier doing and themeparks do enough hand-holding to get them through otherwise they would of quit.
I love Darksouls for Xbox... my younger brother saw me playing one day thought it was cool went out and bought the game... 2 weeks in he quit because he died and lost all his souls. I explained to him that iv lost millions of souls but he couldnt stomach losing 26k... these are the gamers of today (this was a console game mind you). My brother and I have this "Sandbox vs Themepark" arguements all them time and the way things are going there will probably never see a AAA sandbox mmo... even though we both agreed that sandbox-type game would be more enjoyable. 1. Nobody wants to risk losing $$$ on their investment ... 2. MMO's have been introduced to a community that really shouldnt be playing MMO's
Goat meat is the most consumed meat worldwide out of both chicken and beef ... that doesnt mean it taste better
Plenty of people avoided Dark Souls (including myself) cause I want something enjoyable and something like DS (with the harsh death penalty) isn't what I find enjoyable.
There were more people that avoided Dark Souls than attracted to it. That's not saying Dark Souls is a bad game or a good game, it was a niche product for a niche audience. Nothing wrong with that but a product with narrow appeal won't get a lot of variety.
MMO Sandbox is exactly the same. 'MMO Sandbox' fans who bought a 'MMO Sandbox' isn't that large compared to themeparks (that's a fact).
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
let's not paint either this site or its user base into a corner.
Let's not accept attempts to falsely dichotomize the player base into only two option that clearly are not mutually exclusive.
I won't vote for either of your political parties.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I will say that it isn't common to have 2 subs so most people will choose 1 game as a sub.
And so they must be openly hostile towards any game except the one they chose? That's just...juevenile.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There was a huge anticipation for SWTOR though (despite drawing in many nay sayers too), and a huge anticipation for GW2 now.
Personally I bet most of those sandbox fans have played even more themepark games and have good reasons for being tired of all the gameplay on rails. Problem is, they don't much choice apart from bitching about the lack of AAA sandboxes on the forums.
They actually have choices but 'they' have continued to show up in small numbers from an investor/commercial point of view.
Wurm online, EVE, Tale in the desert etc are all there.
But players who are paying for a 'sandbox' are smaller than 'themepark'.
You cant kill all the alternatives on purpose then claim there are none.
5 mil a month from a sandbox, there isnt any investor in the world who wants that right? Not one in the whole wide world. Sure. There must be some other unkown cost we're not informed about.
Goat meat is the most consumed meat worldwide out of both chicken and beef ... that doesnt mean it taste better
Plenty of people avoided Dark Souls (including myself) cause I want something enjoyable and something like DS (with the harsh death penalty) isn't what I find enjoyable.
There were more people that avoided Dark Souls than attracted to it. That's not saying Dark Souls is a bad game or a good game, it was a niche product for a niche audience. Nothing wrong with that but a product with narrow appeal won't get a lot of variety.
MMO Sandbox is exactly the same. 'MMO Sandbox' fans who bought a 'MMO Sandbox' isn't that large compared to themeparks (that's a fact).
In red = Not true
You proved my point
This is the generation that cant die, cant lose thier stuff, avoiding any and all obstacles that would merit any difficulty, yellow dotted line for the quest... lol this is why the games being released are trash. Darksouls 1.09 Million sold worldwide and nominated for RPG and Multiplayer game of the year. You probably didnt even play because the death penalty isnt even that bad. Tsk tsk tsk
Themeparks will continue to get released because of this generation
Goat meat is the most consumed meat worldwide out of both chicken and beef ... that doesnt mean it taste better
Plenty of people avoided Dark Souls (including myself) cause I want something enjoyable and something like DS (with the harsh death penalty) isn't what I find enjoyable.
There were more people that avoided Dark Souls than attracted to it. That's not saying Dark Souls is a bad game or a good game, it was a niche product for a niche audience. Nothing wrong with that but a product with narrow appeal won't get a lot of variety.
MMO Sandbox is exactly the same. 'MMO Sandbox' fans who bought a 'MMO Sandbox' isn't that large compared to themeparks (that's a fact).
In red = Not true
You proved my point
This is the generation that cant die, cant lose thier stuff, avoiding any and all obstacles that would merit any difficulty, yellow dotted line for the quest... lol this is why the games being released are trash. Darksouls 1.09 Million sold worldwide and nominated for RPG and Multiplayer game of the year. You probably didnt even play because the death penalty isnt even that bad. Tsk tsk tsk
Themeparks will continue to get released because of this generation
Yep, that's my generation and that's my kind of games.
There are more of people with my gaming taste then yours so there are more games to match my gaming taste.
Isn't that 'working as intended'?
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Not a sandbox refugee haven, but a pessimistic, cynical, generally negative, narcissistic gamers haven. Why I still come here when I'm the opposite of this is beyond me. Guess I hope for some real info...that's the optimistic part of me. Guess I also hope it will change...that's the positive side of me. I feel quite literally that i leave a piece of my soul here every time I visit.
Not a sandbox refugee haven, but a pessimistic, cynical, generally negative, narcissistic gamers haven. Why I still come here when I'm the opposite of this is beyond me. Guess I hope for some real info...that's the optimistic part of me. Guess I also hope it will change...that's the positive side of me. I feel quite literally that i leave a piece of my soul here every time I visit.
The articles are pretty good so come here for those.
Although what the heck happened to White Tree's one? I miss them.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Goat meat is the most consumed meat worldwide out of both chicken and beef ... that doesnt mean it taste better
Plenty of people avoided Dark Souls (including myself) cause I want something enjoyable and something like DS (with the harsh death penalty) isn't what I find enjoyable.
There were more people that avoided Dark Souls than attracted to it. That's not saying Dark Souls is a bad game or a good game, it was a niche product for a niche audience. Nothing wrong with that but a product with narrow appeal won't get a lot of variety.
MMO Sandbox is exactly the same. 'MMO Sandbox' fans who bought a 'MMO Sandbox' isn't that large compared to themeparks (that's a fact).
In red = Not true
You proved my point
This is the generation that cant die, cant lose thier stuff, avoiding any and all obstacles that would merit any difficulty, yellow dotted line for the quest... lol this is why the games being released are trash. Darksouls 1.09 Million sold worldwide and nominated for RPG and Multiplayer game of the year. You probably didnt even play because the death penalty isnt even that bad. Tsk tsk tsk
Themeparks will continue to get released because of this generation
Yep, that's my generation and that's my kind of games.
There are more of people with my gaming taste then yours so there are more games to match my gaming taste.
Isn't that 'working as intended'?
Well sure XD
Its nice for you... the game you want is around the corner... I have to drive 50 miles for something other than cheese
I will say that it isn't common to have 2 subs so most people will choose 1 game as a sub.
And so they must be openly hostile towards any game except the one they chose? That's just...juevenile.
Better than being secretly hostile to any "person" who hasn't been enlightened. Being openly hostile toward a game is fine as long as you follow the rules.
Talking about other people especially your fellow mmorpg.com user is against the rules with a few exceptions. It's also really wierd. Not saying you're guilty and im innocent. Just saying Id rather play with the people who follow the rules, than the people who are above them.
Quirhid, I begin to understand your point about a society of victims.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I will say that it isn't common to have 2 subs so most people will choose 1 game as a sub.
And so they must be openly hostile towards any game except the one they chose? That's just...juevenile.
Better than being secretly hostile to any "person" who hasn't been enlightened. Being openly hostile toward a game is fine as long as you follow the rules.
Talking about other people especially your fellow mmorpg.com user is against the rules with a few exceptions. It's also really wierd. Not saying you're guilty and im innocent. Just saying Id rather play with the people who follow the rules, than the people who are above them.
Pretty sure backseat moderation is also against the rules.
'secretly hostile' hahaha Good one!
If I say 'I think gamers who constantly pester someone cause they are female is juevenile' is that against the rules? pretty sure it is not.
Talk about the topic or at least explain how someone can be hostile towards a VIDEO GAME.
I don't like Jazz, but that doesn't mean I hate a jazz album. That doesn't make any sense.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Now now Fikus, as an Enlightened one, I will shortly be opening the church to accept donations.
/boggle
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think it'll be criminal of me if I don't say 'but you are too old to be enlightened!' LOL! :P
Old enough to remember Airplane, yup.
Hello, we'd like you to have this flower from the religious consciousness church, would you care to make a donation?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yep, that's my generation and that's my kind of games.
There are more of people with my gaming taste then yours so there are more games to match my gaming taste.
Isn't that 'working as intended'?
Well sure XD
Its nice for you... the game you want is around the corner... I have to drive 50 miles for something other than cheese
Sometimes your taste is niche and you won't find much variety.
My friend loves jazz but I don't. That doesn't mean jazz is bad music. It just means people's taste are different.
If you want to send out a message, vote with your wallet and buy / sub to a sandbox MMO.
My taste isnt really niche
Sandboxes were acutally the majority 9-10 years ago then WoW happened. It opened MMO's to a whole new audience that never played MMo's before ... now in 2012 sandboxes are niche...
Comments
Don't mind replies like these, ice. As we speak, he is probably patting himself in the back thinking "I told 'em good".
Everyone feels like a victim...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
The themepark way of life is committing suicide. The entire concept requires rewards and incentives to get people to do what they wouldnt normally do. Money is the only reward that will work at this point. If your still questing for gear and levels to own nubs, the ladies may not be impressed with you anymore.
Just saying. Building your own city and defending it is HOT now. In game property or control of property. (not what I would have chose) Talk to the women if you don't like it. We tried telling all of you a year or so ago. They control the hipsters.
All it means is themepark players will be nerds again. Not too bad.
They actually have choices but 'they' have continued to show up in small numbers from an investor/commercial point of view.
Wurm online, EVE, Tale in the desert etc are all there.
But players who are paying for a 'sandbox' are smaller than 'themepark'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I agree with this. (Myself actually visited this site for years before I signed up)
I dont know who has it worst... the people that never played DaoC / SWG and were introduced by WoW or the people that have played the older games and saw MMO's go mainstream. I know most people that play mmo's prefer themeparks but im going to go on a stretch and say 70% of the gamers out there dont know what thier doing and themeparks do enough hand-holding to get them through otherwise they would of quit.
I love Darksouls for Xbox... my younger brother saw me playing one day thought it was cool went out and bought the game... 2 weeks in he quit because he died and lost all his souls. I explained to him that iv lost millions of souls but he couldnt stomach losing 26k... these are the gamers of today (this was a console game mind you). My brother and I have this "Sandbox vs Themepark" arguements all them time and the way things are going there will probably never see a AAA sandbox mmo... even though we both agreed that sandbox-type game would be more enjoyable. 1. Nobody wants to risk losing $$$ on their investment ... 2. MMO's have been introduced to a community that really shouldnt be playing MMO's
Goat meat is the most consumed meat worldwide out of both chicken and beef ... that doesnt mean it taste better
just because sandbox players are vehement in their expressions of praise or derision does not mean they (we) are in the majority.
just because mmorpg.com has a vocal sandbox user base does not mean the majority of that base are sandbox gamers.
i do think there is a 'refugee' group of sandboxers, but i don't think they are the primary users. there are far too many games here with high scores and positive reviews which purists (not me) would never touch.
let's not paint either this site or its user base into a corner.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Plenty of people avoided Dark Souls (including myself) cause I want something enjoyable and something like DS (with the harsh death penalty) isn't what I find enjoyable.
There were more people that avoided Dark Souls than attracted to it. That's not saying Dark Souls is a bad game or a good game, it was a niche product for a niche audience. Nothing wrong with that but a product with narrow appeal won't get a lot of variety.
MMO Sandbox is exactly the same. 'MMO Sandbox' fans who bought a 'MMO Sandbox' isn't that large compared to themeparks (that's a fact).
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
blargh
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Totally off topic but your avator pic really makes me crave ice cream.
I will say that it isn't common to have 2 subs so most people will choose 1 game as a sub.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
And so they must be openly hostile towards any game except the one they chose? That's just...juevenile.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is the 'internet' after all. :P
Gamers aren't interested in objectivity or facts. They want validation.
Once you accept the above, you'll understand why the 'gaming journalism' is what it is today.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You cant kill all the alternatives on purpose then claim there are none.
5 mil a month from a sandbox, there isnt any investor in the world who wants that right? Not one in the whole wide world. Sure. There must be some other unkown cost we're not informed about.
In red = Not true
You proved my point
This is the generation that cant die, cant lose thier stuff, avoiding any and all obstacles that would merit any difficulty, yellow dotted line for the quest... lol this is why the games being released are trash. Darksouls 1.09 Million sold worldwide and nominated for RPG and Multiplayer game of the year. You probably didnt even play because the death penalty isnt even that bad. Tsk tsk tsk
Themeparks will continue to get released because of this generation
Yep, that's my generation and that's my kind of games.
There are more of people with my gaming taste then yours so there are more games to match my gaming taste.
Isn't that 'working as intended'?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Not a sandbox refugee haven, but a pessimistic, cynical, generally negative, narcissistic gamers haven. Why I still come here when I'm the opposite of this is beyond me. Guess I hope for some real info...that's the optimistic part of me. Guess I also hope it will change...that's the positive side of me. I feel quite literally that i leave a piece of my soul here every time I visit.
The articles are pretty good so come here for those.
Although what the heck happened to White Tree's one? I miss them.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Well sure XD
Its nice for you... the game you want is around the corner... I have to drive 50 miles for something other than cheese
*edit plus the food is rated "C" :x
Sometimes your taste is niche and you won't find much variety.
My friend loves jazz but I don't. That doesn't mean jazz is bad music. It just means people's taste are different.
If you want to send out a message, vote with your wallet and buy / sub to a sandbox MMO.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Better than being secretly hostile to any "person" who hasn't been enlightened. Being openly hostile toward a game is fine as long as you follow the rules.
Talking about other people especially your fellow mmorpg.com user is against the rules with a few exceptions. It's also really wierd. Not saying you're guilty and im innocent. Just saying Id rather play with the people who follow the rules, than the people who are above them.
Quirhid, I begin to understand your point about a society of victims.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Pretty sure backseat moderation is also against the rules.
'secretly hostile' hahaha Good one!
If I say 'I think gamers who constantly pester someone cause they are female is juevenile' is that against the rules? pretty sure it is not.
Talk about the topic or at least explain how someone can be hostile towards a VIDEO GAME.
I don't like Jazz, but that doesn't mean I hate a jazz album. That doesn't make any sense.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Now now Fikus, as an Enlightened one, I will shortly be opening the church to accept donations.
/boggle
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think it'll be criminal of me if I don't say 'but you are too old to be enlightened!' LOL! :P
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Old enough to remember Airplane, yup.
Hello, we'd like you to have this flower from the
religious consciousness church, would you care
to make a donation?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
My taste isnt really niche
Sandboxes were acutally the majority 9-10 years ago then WoW happened. It opened MMO's to a whole new audience that never played MMo's before ... now in 2012 sandboxes are niche...
Funny how that works