I can't, and shouldn't judge mmo's, video games, books, movies, etc, only from the first 10%. You cannever know this for sure. Not hating on Funcom here, but just look at AOC. If you used that same example, the same would be amazing at launch. What i always do is wait for any video game to launch first and then read impressions and reviews (taking them always with a grain of salt) from people who have actually played most of the content (looking at you IGN). Making a "final verdict" on an mmorpg of all genres based on the first few moments of a game is just not right IMHO.
If one doesn't like what he has seen, cool, walk away, but don't walk away thinking "well that sucked now so it will suck all the way until the end"
I meet a chick and in the first minute I discover shot had shotup drugs in the past. In one minute, I have judged her and passed.
If the game has annoying features that I can't stand to play with, it's the same as shooting drugs. bye bye.
A different chick might lead to something different. We might hang out or go on a date. we might go on many dates. We might enter a relationship. We might get married. We might get divorced. We might get remarried. At various points it could end.
MMORPGs might be the same way in some respects. You might love tortage but when you leave you find a different game and quit. You might make it to level 40 before the game gets annoying. Or hitting endgame. or too much grind.
The point is there are many places where a game will be not a good match with a player. Be it the first 10 minutes (which is valid for those too stupid to understand) or five years and anywhere in between.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The whole leveling process is often perfectly designed to draw you in; progress and rewards around every corner, a new fresh world to explore, long term incentives galore, combat gameplay to master ...
But you don't play mmorpgs just to get to max level and stop playing them because there's nothing left except for generic battleground grinds and instanced pve. Rite?
This is why I think this whole beta weekend trend is sucky at giving people a true impression of what a game holds in store for them and a pretty lousy alternative for getting useful player feedback compared to extensive, long term, open beta testing.
Not saying that EVERYONE should be able to "endgame beta" for months, but I'd love to at least have some people who did being able to speak their minds without being gagged by nda's.
This also prevents falling for "polished starter content - buggy & incomplete high level content" traps like AoC was at launch and arguably Swtor as well (untested Ilum which was added too late and all).
The whole leveling process is often perfectly designed to draw you in; progress and rewards around every corner, a new fresh world to explore, long term incentives galore, combat gameplay to master ...
But you don't play mmorpgs just to get to max level and stop playing them because there's nothing left except for generic battleground grinds and instanced pve. Rite?
Honestly that's how the last 5 years of my MMO gameplay has gone...
Level, hit endgame, level another class, hit endgame... uninstall.
Video game gods, if you are reading this please help us.
While I understand the point that is trying to be made, I find the question of levels to be irrelevant. Time spent might be the better qestion. " Can I decide whether or not I enjoy the game in the first 30 minutes?" would better apply to MMOs as they are not all level based and levels vary. If an MMO takes 10 hours to get to level 10 or 10 minutes makes a very large difference.
I did answer "No" though. Games like Age of Conan were very enjoyable to 1-20, but did not accurately represent the rest of the game.
First 10 levels decide if I want to try the next 10 levels. I think that's rinse and repeat all the way through to end game. Most games are great for the first 10-20 levels. These have been completely and thorougly beta-tested. It's the levels after that that usually flop.
First impressions count alot, if I walk into a game that has poor translations, I rarely play any longer. I don't care about the graphics as long as the game play is great. I care alot about story, so quests that are poorly written are usually a symptom of a larger issue.
My biggest issue is being forced to level. There had BETTER be more to do than JUST level. Tera is a great example of this, I loved the combat, but when I was not out leveling there was absolutely nothing else to do of any value.
I can normally tell within 20 minutes or so if I DON'T like a game. Something has to hook you in and if it's missing I can tell very quickly. As to whether I'll keep playing, that takes a bit longer.
I tend to use the first 30 days to try out a few classes, see how far I can level up. If the levelling is too fast I'll probably pass on it. Unfortunately this is becoming more and more common these days. People hitting the level cap in under a week is poor MMO design in my book. Endgame my ass, what about the journey?
So, 20 minutes to decide if it's a pile of donkey turds, a few hours to a week to know if it's worth paying a sub.
I normally am pretty wary of the first 10 levels, mostly because time and time again it has not been a key indicator about what I can expect from the rest of the game. Too many games shove their best, and most complete work up front to give you the oohh and ahhs when you first begin playing, then quickly drop off and fall into a generic mess as the game progresses on.
After SWTOR, I think some consumers are going to need to see significant details about long term (or endgame) in a game.
I don't know. Seemed relatively clear how SWTOR was going to be from what one could experience in the beta if one had the opportunity or received a buddy key from someone. Only thing that would certainly have been unclear is how disastrous end game PvP would be. Anyone that wanted to focus on that I'll agree no real way to know it was going to be that bad.
I suppose for those that simply went off of the awards and the overly inflated reviews by sites may feel a little burned if that is what they used. Honestly though unless the game is an utter fiasco all around like FFXIV these sites always pull this nonsense. I mean there are several mmos as of late you could say that about.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That depends on how long 10 level takes. Usually within the first couple hours I know whether I'm staying or not. My tolerance for clones has really diminished over the years so that might even shorten my decision making process further.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I chose No. I guess it would depend on how much can happen within those 10 levels, and how many total levels there are. With 10 levels I can tell if I MIGHT like a game. I'd be more happy with 15-20, and hopefully a decent amount of what the game has to offer in later levels.
I can decide in just a few levels if I'm not going to like an MMO. I've never seen one get better if the first few levels are bad. Certainly, a good MMO can get worse. Since I don't give a damn about endgame, that's entirely irrelevant to my enjoyment of any game.
Can you decide if you like an mmo in just 10 levels ?.....I seem to be able too.
Often a Tutorial is enough, or shortly after. Many mmo's use the standard level 10 then again level 20 where you get your cool abilities. But besides that I could get that inner feeling if I would like an mmo.
I could go on with examples, but that would change the topic and start arguements..........So how about you ?
Decision to like it or not in just 10 levels? No freaking way, MMO is not about leveling for me, its about interaction/confrontation in social aspect later in the game. For theme and main concept of the game, I don't need to play it at all to decide if I like it or not.
Definately I can say if I won't like the MMO after 10 levels, since by then I'll get the feel of how the core mechanics work and if I do not like that I won't like the rest, no matter how "good" in other aspects it might be.
It's not enough, however, to judge if the game will be good, as odd it might seem. Even if it has decent systems in place and more less smooth gameplay, there is always question of content and that might vary. Seen plenty of examples of games that have great starting experience but go down in quality not long after you leave first areas and you realize it's all rather shallow.
The true measure is how much time it takes to decide. Level is arbitrary.. But honestly it's up to the MMORPG to provide something fun and interesting in the first 30 seconds if it wants to have the best chance of retaining players. Nobody wants to have to suffer through weak gameplay to get to the good stuff, so if a game hides its good stuff behind a bunch of useless timesinks it's going to perform poorly.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not really. I can usually decide after a few hours if the game is good enough to keep playing, but the real decision comes after playing 1-3 months.
10 levels can help you sort out the games that are a really bad fit but they are not enough to see if you will play the game for years.
As an example have I played GW2 longer than 10 levels and really like it so far but I still have no clue if it is one of those games I will play for years or if I just will play it for 6 intensive weeks.
same here. it is not that cool spells, you will perhaps get after lvl20, will change anything. the gamemechanic either fits or not. and i see that latest after tutorial. and no cool spell or feature can change the wrong game-design and mechanic of the most modern themeparks. latest example was Tera: no graphics and combat system can hide the dull game-mechanic.
however, i played some games like SWTOR, EQ2 or Vanguard a bit longer. i knew, i will not play them for years but there was nothing better out there and the story was not bad. as long as a game doesnt hurt ....
latest example was TSW: not a good game imho, but better than nothing for a while.
on the other side, there have been 2 games already which captured me immediately. i logged in, played less than 1 hour and .... OMFG, THIS IS MY GAME!
it was EQ1 and EVE.
regarding GW2, i feel this game is different and interesting. it is definately not, what i would call the perfect MMO, but i cant tell after even Level 20, that i will NOT like the game. however, i am very very sceptical, that without noteworthy progression, just player skill and fun is enough to hold players longterm. but as long as i am not bored, i will play it. but GW2 is really an exception for me. in over 95% i did know pretty soon, if a game is crap or not.
Right or wrong I do not force myself to continue to play a game. If I don't like it I stop.
Considering that most games are the same, or have the same core concepts, I find it hard to believe it should take someone 1-3 months to decide if they like a game or not. If you don't like gear progression games chances are you will not like the end game of most MMOs. I've yet to find one I enjoy. I knew SWTOR wasn't for me when it was clear that crafted gear was a joke, and their PvP was a laughingstock. I didn't need to put in 3 months to know the gear progression part of the game was not my cup of tea. I already knew that.
After SWTOR, I think some consumers are going to need to see significant details about long term (or endgame) in a game.
I don't know. Seemed relatively clear how SWTOR was going to be from what one could experience in the beta if one had the opportunity or received a buddy key from someone. Only thing that would certainly have been unclear is how disastrous end game PvP would be. Anyone that wanted to focus on that I'll agree no real way to know it was going to be that bad.
I suppose for those that simply went off of the awards and the overly inflated reviews by sites may feel a little burned if that is what they used. Honestly though unless the game is an utter fiasco all around like FFXIV these sites always pull this nonsense. I mean there are several mmos as of late you could say that about.
Sorry, you went off into left field. To clarify, we knew where it was going what did should demand in the future is specifics to the large volume of endgame content.
Oh, we have two raid dugeons at release and many more on the way (assuming the game makes it) vs we currently have ten raid dungeons in testing. Think about it, at endgame they want the sub money to continue to come in (or the the stupid: long term play and/or cash shop). If they desire people spending a year paying at endgame, they have to release with most of that at release (again this should be FROM NOW ON).
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The true measure is how much time it takes to decide. Level is arbitrary.. But honestly it's up to the MMORPG to provide something fun and interesting in the first 30 seconds if it wants to have the best chance of retaining players. Nobody wants to have to suffer through weak gameplay to get to the good stuff, so if a game hides its good stuff behind a bunch of useless timesinks it's going to perform poorly.
That is generally true but I think there needs to be some "timesink", if that is the term you want to use for not getting what you want when you want it, that gives the feeling of wow, I really earned that even though it was only a "timesink". Showing up for a raid/event shouldn't give you a prize. Unless it's a big piñata raid/event.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
It really depends on when the game came out and a lot of other factors.
FFXI - worst first 10 levels in any MMO ever. If i were to try it today, i would uninstall it within an hour. Yet i played it for 7 years.
FFXIV - i knew within 2 hours that SE learned nothing from XI.
WoW - never made it to 10, couldn't stand the art style.
WAR - same deal. Hated the art style.
Aion - loved everything until level 50 when gear and RNG mean everything.
TOR - fun until 50. I should say fun on the first playthrough.
Rift - would still be playing it if not for GW2.
Time is more important to me than it was 10 years ago. Therefore i tend to not give games a second chance if they don't grab me within the free month. Could i decide withing the first 10 levels? Sure i could, but it would be due to time and options.
A game of any measure, be it MMORPG or not has to enchant me within the first few hours, if not, i won't endure it, why should i waste my time on something that doesn't entertain me, i do that at my job, why should my free time be wasted on agony
Voted yes. I might take longer to consider a game as great, but not-so-great can sometimes be seen in the first half hour.
Prime example: Logged into Alganon and the NPCs started disappearing. Not a single player or NPC anywhere. I was completely alone. Did I really need to see more?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Comments
it's more about time spent for me. if im still playing after 8 hours and can't wait til i can play again i probably like it.
There's no set point for me.
I stop when i get bored or annoyed.
This could be within ten minutes fumbling with the UI or basic functions, during the leveling process or at endgame.
It's different depending on the game.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I meet a chick and in the first minute I discover shot had shotup drugs in the past. In one minute, I have judged her and passed.
If the game has annoying features that I can't stand to play with, it's the same as shooting drugs. bye bye.
A different chick might lead to something different. We might hang out or go on a date. we might go on many dates. We might enter a relationship. We might get married. We might get divorced. We might get remarried. At various points it could end.
MMORPGs might be the same way in some respects. You might love tortage but when you leave you find a different game and quit. You might make it to level 40 before the game gets annoying. Or hitting endgame. or too much grind.
The point is there are many places where a game will be not a good match with a player. Be it the first 10 minutes (which is valid for those too stupid to understand) or five years and anywhere in between.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
After SWTOR, I think some consumers are going to need to see significant details about long term (or endgame) in a game.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
By definition I sadly can not.
The whole leveling process is often perfectly designed to draw you in; progress and rewards around every corner, a new fresh world to explore, long term incentives galore, combat gameplay to master ...
But you don't play mmorpgs just to get to max level and stop playing them because there's nothing left except for generic battleground grinds and instanced pve. Rite?
This is why I think this whole beta weekend trend is sucky at giving people a true impression of what a game holds in store for them and a pretty lousy alternative for getting useful player feedback compared to extensive, long term, open beta testing.
Not saying that EVERYONE should be able to "endgame beta" for months, but I'd love to at least have some people who did being able to speak their minds without being gagged by nda's.
This also prevents falling for "polished starter content - buggy & incomplete high level content" traps like AoC was at launch and arguably Swtor as well (untested Ilum which was added too late and all).
My brand new bloggity blog.
Honestly that's how the last 5 years of my MMO gameplay has gone...
Level, hit endgame, level another class, hit endgame... uninstall.
Video game gods, if you are reading this please help us.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
While I understand the point that is trying to be made, I find the question of levels to be irrelevant. Time spent might be the better qestion. " Can I decide whether or not I enjoy the game in the first 30 minutes?" would better apply to MMOs as they are not all level based and levels vary. If an MMO takes 10 hours to get to level 10 or 10 minutes makes a very large difference.
I did answer "No" though. Games like Age of Conan were very enjoyable to 1-20, but did not accurately represent the rest of the game.
First 10 levels decide if I want to try the next 10 levels. I think that's rinse and repeat all the way through to end game. Most games are great for the first 10-20 levels. These have been completely and thorougly beta-tested. It's the levels after that that usually flop.
First impressions count alot, if I walk into a game that has poor translations, I rarely play any longer. I don't care about the graphics as long as the game play is great. I care alot about story, so quests that are poorly written are usually a symptom of a larger issue.
My biggest issue is being forced to level. There had BETTER be more to do than JUST level. Tera is a great example of this, I loved the combat, but when I was not out leveling there was absolutely nothing else to do of any value.
I can normally tell within 20 minutes or so if I DON'T like a game. Something has to hook you in and if it's missing I can tell very quickly. As to whether I'll keep playing, that takes a bit longer.
I tend to use the first 30 days to try out a few classes, see how far I can level up. If the levelling is too fast I'll probably pass on it. Unfortunately this is becoming more and more common these days. People hitting the level cap in under a week is poor MMO design in my book. Endgame my ass, what about the journey?
So, 20 minutes to decide if it's a pile of donkey turds, a few hours to a week to know if it's worth paying a sub.
I normally am pretty wary of the first 10 levels, mostly because time and time again it has not been a key indicator about what I can expect from the rest of the game. Too many games shove their best, and most complete work up front to give you the oohh and ahhs when you first begin playing, then quickly drop off and fall into a generic mess as the game progresses on.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
I don't know. Seemed relatively clear how SWTOR was going to be from what one could experience in the beta if one had the opportunity or received a buddy key from someone. Only thing that would certainly have been unclear is how disastrous end game PvP would be. Anyone that wanted to focus on that I'll agree no real way to know it was going to be that bad.
I suppose for those that simply went off of the awards and the overly inflated reviews by sites may feel a little burned if that is what they used. Honestly though unless the game is an utter fiasco all around like FFXIV these sites always pull this nonsense. I mean there are several mmos as of late you could say that about.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That depends on how long 10 level takes. Usually within the first couple hours I know whether I'm staying or not. My tolerance for clones has really diminished over the years so that might even shorten my decision making process further.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I chose No. I guess it would depend on how much can happen within those 10 levels, and how many total levels there are. With 10 levels I can tell if I MIGHT like a game. I'd be more happy with 15-20, and hopefully a decent amount of what the game has to offer in later levels.
I can decide in just a few levels if I'm not going to like an MMO. I've never seen one get better if the first few levels are bad. Certainly, a good MMO can get worse. Since I don't give a damn about endgame, that's entirely irrelevant to my enjoyment of any game.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Decision to like it or not in just 10 levels? No freaking way, MMO is not about leveling for me, its about interaction/confrontation in social aspect later in the game. For theme and main concept of the game, I don't need to play it at all to decide if I like it or not.
---
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
Definately I can say if I won't like the MMO after 10 levels, since by then I'll get the feel of how the core mechanics work and if I do not like that I won't like the rest, no matter how "good" in other aspects it might be.
It's not enough, however, to judge if the game will be good, as odd it might seem. Even if it has decent systems in place and more less smooth gameplay, there is always question of content and that might vary. Seen plenty of examples of games that have great starting experience but go down in quality not long after you leave first areas and you realize it's all rather shallow.
The true measure is how much time it takes to decide. Level is arbitrary.. But honestly it's up to the MMORPG to provide something fun and interesting in the first 30 seconds if it wants to have the best chance of retaining players. Nobody wants to have to suffer through weak gameplay to get to the good stuff, so if a game hides its good stuff behind a bunch of useless timesinks it's going to perform poorly.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
same here. it is not that cool spells, you will perhaps get after lvl20, will change anything. the gamemechanic either fits or not. and i see that latest after tutorial. and no cool spell or feature can change the wrong game-design and mechanic of the most modern themeparks. latest example was Tera: no graphics and combat system can hide the dull game-mechanic.
however, i played some games like SWTOR, EQ2 or Vanguard a bit longer. i knew, i will not play them for years but there was nothing better out there and the story was not bad. as long as a game doesnt hurt ....
latest example was TSW: not a good game imho, but better than nothing for a while.
on the other side, there have been 2 games already which captured me immediately. i logged in, played less than 1 hour and .... OMFG, THIS IS MY GAME!
it was EQ1 and EVE.
regarding GW2, i feel this game is different and interesting. it is definately not, what i would call the perfect MMO, but i cant tell after even Level 20, that i will NOT like the game. however, i am very very sceptical, that without noteworthy progression, just player skill and fun is enough to hold players longterm. but as long as i am not bored, i will play it. but GW2 is really an exception for me. in over 95% i did know pretty soon, if a game is crap or not.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Right or wrong I do not force myself to continue to play a game. If I don't like it I stop.
Considering that most games are the same, or have the same core concepts, I find it hard to believe it should take someone 1-3 months to decide if they like a game or not. If you don't like gear progression games chances are you will not like the end game of most MMOs. I've yet to find one I enjoy. I knew SWTOR wasn't for me when it was clear that crafted gear was a joke, and their PvP was a laughingstock. I didn't need to put in 3 months to know the gear progression part of the game was not my cup of tea. I already knew that.
I usually get a strong indication during character creation. But to be clear I'll play out my free month before I decide.
Sorry, you went off into left field. To clarify, we knew where it was going what did should demand in the future is specifics to the large volume of endgame content.
Oh, we have two raid dugeons at release and many more on the way (assuming the game makes it) vs we currently have ten raid dungeons in testing. Think about it, at endgame they want the sub money to continue to come in (or the the stupid: long term play and/or cash shop). If they desire people spending a year paying at endgame, they have to release with most of that at release (again this should be FROM NOW ON).
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That is generally true but I think there needs to be some "timesink", if that is the term you want to use for not getting what you want when you want it, that gives the feeling of wow, I really earned that even though it was only a "timesink". Showing up for a raid/event shouldn't give you a prize. Unless it's a big piñata raid/event.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It really depends on when the game came out and a lot of other factors.
FFXI - worst first 10 levels in any MMO ever. If i were to try it today, i would uninstall it within an hour. Yet i played it for 7 years.
FFXIV - i knew within 2 hours that SE learned nothing from XI.
WoW - never made it to 10, couldn't stand the art style.
WAR - same deal. Hated the art style.
Aion - loved everything until level 50 when gear and RNG mean everything.
TOR - fun until 50. I should say fun on the first playthrough.
Rift - would still be playing it if not for GW2.
Time is more important to me than it was 10 years ago. Therefore i tend to not give games a second chance if they don't grab me within the free month. Could i decide withing the first 10 levels? Sure i could, but it would be due to time and options.
A game of any measure, be it MMORPG or not has to enchant me within the first few hours, if not, i won't endure it, why should i waste my time on something that doesn't entertain me, i do that at my job, why should my free time be wasted on agony
So my vote was YES
Voted yes. I might take longer to consider a game as great, but not-so-great can sometimes be seen in the first half hour.
Prime example: Logged into Alganon and the NPCs started disappearing. Not a single player or NPC anywhere. I was completely alone. Did I really need to see more?