EVE is actually growing in subs ive watched it grow from 19000 people to now a good steady 30000 people in the past couple years game is great not for everyone but for the few its a awesome gem of a game.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The thing is, there are quite a lot of casuals in EVE, purely because it's the only space MMO that provides any bit that old Elite / Privateer sort of immersion... A good deal of those deal in mining / trading, just because PVP takes... well, quite some dedication in this game. Think about people who play about 10 hours a week, just for getting a bit of that "internet spaceship pilot" feel.
So, yeah, there surely are things you can do to protect your one-person mining operation, again that takes... yeah, extra dedication. For the people already putting a lot of hours into this game, this may not seem like that much of a deal, but the casual miner who's in it just to be a space trucker a couple hours a night won't really be bothered. Simply because they'll feel it's not worth it.
There is a difference between a 'Casual' miner and an 'AFK' miner.
Former can't really get ganked if they follow the follow 2 things, stay aligned and warp out if yellow enters local.
Later will get ganked and should be.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
To the miners who are complaining about this event...
What are you doing to help yourself? Complaining on the forums or to CCP is useless (if anything it encourages them). You're looking for somebody else to solve your problems.
Do you have hardners running? Are you AFK or not watching local? Are you mining in a system bordering low sec or with a sec status < 0.8? Are you mining in a belt or an exploration site? Have you considering moving to low sec or null sec?
There are many things you can do to reduce your chances of being a target and increase your chances of survival. I'm betting most players don't want to do anything, they want CCP to protect them from the evil suicide gangs.
I quit because of it.
" Proud Member of GoonSquad "
People who quit EVE rather than accept the possibility that they can lose their ship if they're careless or foolhardy....
...have made the right decision.
1) I make a sly toon and drop into your belt with a mining ship and mine for a bit to show that I'm a miner.
2) I bookmark a rock close to your ship.
3) I share that bookmark with enough friends to take down your ship.
4) We warp in right on top of you.
5) It doesn't matter if you're aligned or tanked or anything - if you're sitting next to that rock when we drop out of warp you're dead and of course you'll be sitting next to that rock because if you moved whenever you saw a mining ship in your belt you'd be dirt poor.
What happens when you have too many wolves and not enough sheep?
The people playing Jumpgate know.
Welcome to the sandbox.
You can thank the guys who ran to the forums and demanded that CCP step in and prevent people from doing this. They only motivated an escellation.
And believe it or not, it actually has an effect beyond just creating "moar tearz".
I wonder we would keep this up. Not like it's driving the cost of any of my ships in hi-sec.
Oh wait, it is! You have to keep in mind, pretty much every time a hulk is destroyed, at least one other ship is as well, that's two ships that need to be replaced almost every time a hulk goes down.
While I don't pvp, because not all goons pvp, I do hope this goes on for some time.
If you scare away the fish guess what you wont be having for supper?
It happened before in another game.
Be careful.
People have said this stuff ever since the servers went live. I guess its always made under the presumption that the predators will not move onto killing the less capable predators. Most PvPers in EVE like killing each other as much as they like killing miners and mission runners, although those kills do provide a quite excellent vintage.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Guess this is the logical step, what greater a challenge than attacking hisec? Goon is too powerful to be threatened by null space pvp anymore which could in-turn could cause a rebellion in hisec.
forcing the casual players out of eve is a bad move...especially since more than likeley they are the only real paying subscribers...eve admitted about 1/4 of their player base plays for free exploiting the in game economy. of the 3/4 that remain you've got maybe 200k subs a third of which are alts....you take away the roughly 150k casual people in game out and eve loses profitability...butting anything else ccp is working on back on the back burner or worse...smooth move
forcing the casual players out of eve is a bad move...especially since more than likeley they are the only real paying subscribers...eve admitted about 1/4 of their player base plays for free exploiting the in game economy. of the 3/4 that remain you've got maybe 200k subs a third of which are alts....you take away the roughly 150k casual people in game out and eve loses profitability...butting anything else ccp is working on back on the back burner or worse...smooth move
But who is the casual player? A miner? A gold farming bot? Your telling me that the casual player spends there 1 or 2 hours a day cracking rocks like some minigame, I hardly feel remorse for the potential negative reprucussions of CCP.
Way I see it is that this is a storyline for PVP purposes, a great threat from nullsec looms over the core systems kind a deal.
I think what surprises people is that CCP really, truely believes that everyone should participate in some form in the PVP side of the game, and they are willing to lose certain subscribers in favor of creating a universe that supports those who embrace the concept.
I applaud them for sticking with this vision.
I applaud them as well, even though it's a big part of the reason why I am no longer playing (didn't get ganked, but the constant cat and mouse game made for a non-relaxing game and I play games to relax first and foremost).
However, I can't help but feel that they can afford to do that simply because there's nothing else like EVE at the moment. You either suck it up or accept that you won't be playing a deep quality space MMO any time soon. Heck, you could even take the space part out and say that if you want a deep quality MMO where crafting and trading matters and where progress isn't measured by levels, gear tiers and raid performance, EVE is all there is. Imagine if there was a viable alternative where ganking was less of an issue or even a non-issue?
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
forcing the casual players out of eve is a bad move...especially since more than likeley they are the only real paying subscribers...eve admitted about 1/4 of their player base plays for free exploiting the in game economy. of the 3/4 that remain you've got maybe 200k subs a third of which are alts....you take away the roughly 150k casual people in game out and eve loses profitability...butting anything else ccp is working on back on the back burner or worse...smooth move
CCP still get paid a subscription fee for each player that plays for "free".
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
I guess its always made under the presumption that the predators will not move onto killing the less capable predators.
It is based on assumption that predators will prefer prey that is easier to hunt...which is a true premise.
Wolves will move onto killing each other but "only" once there is no sheep left...
The "wolves Vs sheep" premise doesnt fit EVE at all. The amount of people that would rather hang around in high sec and kill people that are unwilling and unable to learn how to protect themselves is incredibly small. If they quit because their prey quit nothing of value would have been lost.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
I think what surprises people is that CCP really, truely believes that everyone should participate in some form in the PVP side of the game, and they are willing to lose certain subscribers in favor of creating a universe that supports those who embrace the concept.
I applaud them for sticking with this vision.
I applaud them as well, even though it's a big part of the reason why I am no longer playing (didn't get ganked, but the constant cat and mouse game made for a non-relaxing game and I play games to relax first and foremost).
However, I can't help but feel that they can afford to do that simply because there's nothing else like EVE at the moment. You either suck it up or accept that you won't be playing a deep quality space MMO any time soon. Heck, you could even take the space part out and say that if you want a deep quality MMO where crafting and trading matters and where progress isn't measured by levels, gear tiers and raid performance, EVE is all there is. Imagine if there was a viable alternative where ganking was less of an issue or even a non-issue?
I agree.
In a way, EVE is currently in the same enviable position that UO held when it first started. It's the "only game in town" that offers really deep and complex gameplay, so a large chunk of the playerbase "put up" with the ever present threat of ganking.
Of course, the case could be made that it's only possible to have deep and complex gameplay in games where the threat of ganking is possible
But there are other ways of removing equipment from a game (item wear, loss of gear in PVE deaths, etc.) that would also create a complex and dynamic game and economy. It simply hasn't been done successfully yet.
What happens when you have too many wolves and not enough sheep?
The people playing Jumpgate know.
Welcome to the sandbox.
You can thank the guys who ran to the forums and demanded that CCP step in and prevent people from doing this. They only motivated an escellation.
And believe it or not, it actually has an effect beyond just creating "moar tearz".
I wonder we would keep this up. Not like it's driving the cost of any of my ships in hi-sec.
Oh wait, it is! You have to keep in mind, pretty much every time a hulk is destroyed, at least one other ship is as well, that's two ships that need to be replaced almost every time a hulk goes down.
While I don't pvp, because not all goons pvp, I do hope this goes on for some time.
If you scare away the fish guess what you wont be having for supper?
It happened before in another game.
Be careful.
People have said this stuff ever since the servers went live. I guess its always made under the presumption that the predators will not move onto killing the less capable predators. Most PvPers in EVE like killing each other as much as they like killing miners and mission runners, although those kills do provide a quite excellent vintage.
There are two changes that have happened that have not occured before in this game. The first being an aggressive attack on a specific play style - sure, there's been attacks on industrialists before but nothing close to an ongoing completely funded and organized campaign and the second is the fact that the victims have no ability to rebuild their sand castle without funding the people that kicked their sand castle down - thanks to the changes in PI T2 production is in the hands of null and low sec players.
This presents a no win situation for high sec industrialists and the only winning move is not to play.
Edit: Another great idea brought to you by CCP's blind ignorance.
This thread has been amusing to read.
I like the people suggesting that the ones that enjoy the industry side of the game suddenly train up lasers so they can do something about it in 6 months time when their training is complete. LOL! I don't play anymore but really? Really? That's a solution? I wonder if you dummies even play at all.
Since I'm criticizing your solutions I should probably post the real solution.
Return drone loot and remove the PI tax and this problem is solved and so long as CCP keeps those two changes in place there's money to make from players restricting mining and perhaps incidentally driving people from the game.
CCP, lol @ the war you've invented in game that will cost you your sub money.
I like the people suggesting that the ones that enjoy the industry side of the game suddenly train up lasers so they can do something about it in 6 months time when their training is complete. LOL! I don't play anymore but really? Really? That's a solution? I wonder if you dummies even play at all.
Opportunity Cost happens in EVE too, people learn to deal with it.
It's a sandbox, these things can occur and will occur, CCP have built the box and what goes on in it is down to the players. That is how it should be, this kind of game is not for everyone, if you are one of those don't take it personally, don't be upset that games like these exist, play the kind of game you enjoy where you can scamper together in pixie glades collecting rainbows for your collaborative collage mini game.
People could just go back to the old fashion way of mining, do it in Apoc! lol Cannot take that down with destroyers that easily. When the game first released, we did mining in Apoc for a long time. Yeah it was slow but nothing can realy hurt you either. Just need an Indy follow you to pickup the ores. Would work if nothing mining Ice. Hulkgadeddon.... try that on Apoc. pffft
What happens when you have too many wolves and not enough sheep?
The people playing Jumpgate know.
Welcome to the sandbox.
You can thank the guys who ran to the forums and demanded that CCP step in and prevent people from doing this. They only motivated an escellation.
And believe it or not, it actually has an effect beyond just creating "moar tearz".
I wonder we would keep this up. Not like it's driving the cost of any of my ships in hi-sec.
Oh wait, it is! You have to keep in mind, pretty much every time a hulk is destroyed, at least one other ship is as well, that's two ships that need to be replaced almost every time a hulk goes down.
While I don't pvp, because not all goons pvp, I do hope this goes on for some time.
If you scare away the fish guess what you wont be having for supper?
It happened before in another game.
Be careful.
Do you play EVE? I know slaverhounds are an ingame item and all, so I'm guessing you do but just don't leave highsec often. This wolves/sheep thing is utter BS. Unless you count maybe the population of highsec which aren't alts and truly are sheep play a game which is all about risk v reward yet being completely risk adverse sh*tbirds, everyone in EVE is a wolf AND a sheep. Sometimes you need ISK and fly a hulk or ratting ship with little to no defense against gankers, othertimes you are the ganker.
Once you get out from under mama Concord's skirt in some capacity you'll realize that most pvp occurs between people looking for fights. Most of the time, both sides think they can win or at least get a quick kill and run so they engage mutually. Sometimes kills happen because someone is moving a sluggish ship without scouts and runs into a bubble camp as well.
Comments
EVE is actually growing in subs ive watched it grow from 19000 people to now a good steady 30000 people in the past couple years game is great not for everyone but for the few its a awesome gem of a game.
Forseeable future, maybe?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There is a difference between a 'Casual' miner and an 'AFK' miner.
Former can't really get ganked if they follow the follow 2 things, stay aligned and warp out if yellow enters local.
Later will get ganked and should be.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
1) I make a sly toon and drop into your belt with a mining ship and mine for a bit to show that I'm a miner.
2) I bookmark a rock close to your ship.
3) I share that bookmark with enough friends to take down your ship.
4) We warp in right on top of you.
5) It doesn't matter if you're aligned or tanked or anything - if you're sitting next to that rock when we drop out of warp you're dead and of course you'll be sitting next to that rock because if you moved whenever you saw a mining ship in your belt you'd be dirt poor.
I should just return and blow everyone up, again..
I am quite sure they are not looking for you(and alike) though...
People have said this stuff ever since the servers went live. I guess its always made under the presumption that the predators will not move onto killing the less capable predators. Most PvPers in EVE like killing each other as much as they like killing miners and mission runners, although those kills do provide a quite excellent vintage.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Guess this is the logical step, what greater a challenge than attacking hisec? Goon is too powerful to be threatened by null space pvp anymore which could in-turn could cause a rebellion in hisec.
forcing the casual players out of eve is a bad move...especially since more than likeley they are the only real paying subscribers...eve admitted about 1/4 of their player base plays for free exploiting the in game economy. of the 3/4 that remain you've got maybe 200k subs a third of which are alts....you take away the roughly 150k casual people in game out and eve loses profitability...butting anything else ccp is working on back on the back burner or worse...smooth move
so say we all
But who is the casual player? A miner? A gold farming bot? Your telling me that the casual player spends there 1 or 2 hours a day cracking rocks like some minigame, I hardly feel remorse for the potential negative reprucussions of CCP.
Way I see it is that this is a storyline for PVP purposes, a great threat from nullsec looms over the core systems kind a deal.
I applaud them as well, even though it's a big part of the reason why I am no longer playing (didn't get ganked, but the constant cat and mouse game made for a non-relaxing game and I play games to relax first and foremost).
However, I can't help but feel that they can afford to do that simply because there's nothing else like EVE at the moment. You either suck it up or accept that you won't be playing a deep quality space MMO any time soon. Heck, you could even take the space part out and say that if you want a deep quality MMO where crafting and trading matters and where progress isn't measured by levels, gear tiers and raid performance, EVE is all there is. Imagine if there was a viable alternative where ganking was less of an issue or even a non-issue?
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
CCP still get paid a subscription fee for each player that plays for "free".
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
It is based on assumption that predators will prefer prey that is easier to hunt...which is a true premise.
Wolves will move onto killing each other but "only" once there is no sheep left...
The "wolves Vs sheep" premise doesnt fit EVE at all. The amount of people that would rather hang around in high sec and kill people that are unwilling and unable to learn how to protect themselves is incredibly small. If they quit because their prey quit nothing of value would have been lost.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I agree.
In a way, EVE is currently in the same enviable position that UO held when it first started. It's the "only game in town" that offers really deep and complex gameplay, so a large chunk of the playerbase "put up" with the ever present threat of ganking.
Of course, the case could be made that it's only possible to have deep and complex gameplay in games where the threat of ganking is possible
But there are other ways of removing equipment from a game (item wear, loss of gear in PVE deaths, etc.) that would also create a complex and dynamic game and economy. It simply hasn't been done successfully yet.
It does, you are mistaking cause for consequence tho..
There are two changes that have happened that have not occured before in this game. The first being an aggressive attack on a specific play style - sure, there's been attacks on industrialists before but nothing close to an ongoing completely funded and organized campaign and the second is the fact that the victims have no ability to rebuild their sand castle without funding the people that kicked their sand castle down - thanks to the changes in PI T2 production is in the hands of null and low sec players.
This presents a no win situation for high sec industrialists and the only winning move is not to play.
Edit: Another great idea brought to you by CCP's blind ignorance.
This thread has been amusing to read.
I like the people suggesting that the ones that enjoy the industry side of the game suddenly train up lasers so they can do something about it in 6 months time when their training is complete. LOL! I don't play anymore but really? Really? That's a solution? I wonder if you dummies even play at all.
Since I'm criticizing your solutions I should probably post the real solution.
Return drone loot and remove the PI tax and this problem is solved and so long as CCP keeps those two changes in place there's money to make from players restricting mining and perhaps incidentally driving people from the game.
CCP, lol @ the war you've invented in game that will cost you your sub money.
Opportunity Cost happens in EVE too, people learn to deal with it.
Stuff like this makes me afraid to ever play this game.
Words can not express what i feel right now.
I love how The Mittani's reaction to the whole ousting from the CSM thing is to convince his Mongol horde to go for broke.
Apology accepted.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
People could just go back to the old fashion way of mining, do it in Apoc! lol Cannot take that down with destroyers that easily. When the game first released, we did mining in Apoc for a long time. Yeah it was slow but nothing can realy hurt you either. Just need an Indy follow you to pickup the ores. Would work if nothing mining Ice. Hulkgadeddon.... try that on Apoc. pffft
Not the best, but always the first.
Do you play EVE? I know slaverhounds are an ingame item and all, so I'm guessing you do but just don't leave highsec often. This wolves/sheep thing is utter BS. Unless you count maybe the population of highsec which aren't alts and truly are sheep play a game which is all about risk v reward yet being completely risk adverse sh*tbirds, everyone in EVE is a wolf AND a sheep. Sometimes you need ISK and fly a hulk or ratting ship with little to no defense against gankers, othertimes you are the ganker.
Once you get out from under mama Concord's skirt in some capacity you'll realize that most pvp occurs between people looking for fights. Most of the time, both sides think they can win or at least get a quick kill and run so they engage mutually. Sometimes kills happen because someone is moving a sluggish ship without scouts and runs into a bubble camp as well.
[mod edit]
Directional scan is your friend.