Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not one to get excited about a game based on a small amount of information, but I really don't see where the whole ESO = WoW clone thing some people are spouting is coming from.
If anything ESO looks like a game that is trying to combine some stuff from first generation MMOs like open world content, no quest hubs, and world pvp, with more modern MMO features like action oriented combat and individual story arcs. I'm certainly not seeing a WoW clone here.
Still going to be something the market already has plenty of, I will believe it will be a good game when it launches and after 3 months everyone is like YOU HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME. Until then it is just more crap. The only games I feel even slightly psyched for after SWTOR bit us all in the ass, is Everquest Next, and Planetside 2 and even them i am leery of.
There need to be a good balance between the two... Make the game too "SANDBOX", it will not gain enough sub to stay alive, make it too theme park, it will person will grow old of it soon..
FUN is the key word.. Stike a good balance between the two playstyle but make it FUN..
For sure. And taking this a step further, you need BOTH communities living in the game world to really bring life into it, and have it flourish (see UO, EVE Online etc).
I actually have some decent conceptual ideas on how you could pull this off. Of course I will not share them anonymously here.
After years of wasting money on crappy MMOs, I have a simple test to determine if I buy it! Does it have Quest Hubs?
Guild Wars 2 = Yes (I will not buy no matter the hype)
ESO = No (Buying it!)
I hope Guild Wars 2 is good, but after years of wasting time and money doing the goes to X, kill or collect Y, return for Z quests I'm done. Quests should be meaningful, not just time sink crap like MMOs now a days!
You're a bit confused. GW2 does not have quest hubs. Moreover, TESO will not get rid of the go to X, kill or collect y quests either. They may disguize them a bit, but those quests will still be there.
"Is it Skyrim Online? No. Is it Elder Scrolls Online? Most definitely."
I hear ya Bill, but If it's not Skyrim Online I will not be playing it. Sorry man, the industry already has crap like this. Way too much of it...
Skyrim was the last of TES to have come out. So the online game has to be on par with that. Just like Ultima Online was. You can't go backwards and half ass a clone of all the garbage that is already out that noone wants to play longer than a month.
Skyrim Online would be new and fresh. Anything less will be "meh - I have seen this, done this, no thanks".
Put skyrim in an Online environment and i know for a fact you wouldn't have the same experience.... Modders have tried multiplayer in ES for awhile now, and its just isn't the same...
You can't just take a Single player game, that was designed around for you alone to explore and turn it into a MMO, the experience / feeling will be lost...
So you do the next best thing, see what work in the ES series and come close to it as possible but add other players to the mix.
Or in the case of TESO, you take what works for WoW, GW2 and DAoC and just use the lore from TES games.
Okay, I have to admit, it's looking like it'll be better than when it was first announced. Still far from great in my oh-so humble opinion, and this feature sounded pretty PR heavy, defensive, and opinionated to me. It did, however, give me some better insight into the combat, which up until now, sounded uninventive.
I still do not like the race locked factions, the no dragons, the no housing, and we shall see just how "actiony" this combat really is. From an interview that Firor did, it sounded like there were only horses as mounts too, which is pretty lame for an mmo. Yes, I know that's how it was in the single player games, but they keep saying this is an mmo and therefore some things need to be different, so why not this?
They better have that freaking killer unicorn from Oblivion, or arrows to the knee all around.
"You will find zones that are too high a level for you"
Which means you also have zones that you will outlevel and again a mmo wastes massive assets of art and world design bcs its level based.
The mmo will be a downgrade, not an upgrade for TES fans:
No Virtual World
Zones with restricted access bcs of the level design
Useless mobs bcs of the level design
People not competitive in PvP until they reach a certain level bcs of the level design
Art direction significantly differs from the almost naturalistic approach of TES and goes half way comic style with bright colours and out of proportion avatar and mob design - WOW and Rift meet TES for the worse.
Lets hope it will become a true TES game with a strong mmo aspect.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
This game sounds great the more that comes out. I keep checking their website to sign up for beta or pre purchase as soon as its available. I still want to hear more indepth crafting questions, but its really early still and I'am sure they will release more info in time.
As for right now, reading that PvE encounter you describe has got me excited. good write up
Looks like it could be really interesting. Personally, the only things I care about in MMO's they seem to have a grasp on - combat, community, and PvP (I know it's called an MMORPG, but I'm not a big story guy, and people haven't adopted the term MMO Action Game). Combat with worthwhile collision detection (sphere to sphere = early 2000's!) and limited skills (have to actually think about my next battle before I start). Incentive to get into PUG's and even just cooperate with other rando's that happen to be in your dungeon/zone. To me, that is the whole point of an MMO - to play with other people, cooperatively or competitively. Sure, have plenty of things for me to do alone (craft, etc.), but what is the point of playing online if I can solo all of the content?
There will be a few features they haven't discussed yet that will make or break it for me:
1. Guild / Clan system. Don't just have it be leader / officers / members. That crap sucks. Do something like AC did, with rewards for helping out guildmates besides the warm fuzzy feeling. Be original here - the rest of the game depends on the functionality and rewards of playing with others.
2. Make death mean something! Make me lose some items, or lose xp, or whatever; just make consequences to dying! MMO players have become big babies over the past decade or so.
3. Don't restrict where I can go. Let me wander into the dungeon with mob's 15 levels higher than me and get pummeled. Just because I can't kill anything there doesn't mean I won't want to go look around.
4. Let me loot everything/everyone! If I kill someone in PvP, I want to snag their sword off their corpse and use it to kill them again when they come back looking for their body.
5. Don't restrict PvP. Let me kill other factions on sight, no matter where we are! They come into my dungeon while I'm grinding and gank me? I should have been in a party
6. Quest items should be unique, but not the best item of it's type. Crafted items and very rare drops should be better, so I have incentive to grind mob's and mat's. Characters need to look unique in their gear and still be competitive.
7. More levels. Prolong the grind - you know you love it! Not kill x collect y, but killing for XP, items, rank (in PvP), accolades, etc.
This got too long already, and doesn't feel like it should be in this thread anymore. Whatev's.
Skyrim was great about letting you go where you wanted, by carefully leading you from one place to the next through quests.
If this is truly how everyone feels the case to be then I have to wonder if I was playing a different game to everyone else. This sounds like you are severely clutching at straws in order to sing the praises of quest hubs and the unfortunate situation of being ferried between them on a static and linear path for every alternative character that you create.
My soul dies a little with every new piece of information that I hear about this blatant cash grab of an MMO.
AFter the initial announcement , the three reviews i've read, say they arenot going to have open world pvp, thank god. This has me wanting to pay more attention to this game as it comes out. Sounds like the GW2 inspiration of gaming is taken effect. No more hating playing with other players.
Looks like it could be really interesting. Personally, the only things I care about in MMO's they seem to have a grasp on - combat, community, and PvP (I know it's called an MMORPG, but I'm not a big story guy, and people haven't adopted the term MMO Action Game). Combat with worthwhile collision detection (sphere to sphere = early 2000's!) and limited skills (have to actually think about my next battle before I start). Incentive to get into PUG's and even just cooperate with other rando's that happen to be in your dungeon/zone. To me, that is the whole point of an MMO - to play with other people, cooperatively or competitively. Sure, have plenty of things for me to do alone (craft, etc.), but what is the point of playing online if I can solo all of the content?
There will be a few features they haven't discussed yet that will make or break it for me:
1. Guild / Clan system. Don't just have it be leader / officers / members. That crap sucks. Do something like AC did, with rewards for helping out guildmates besides the warm fuzzy feeling. Be original here - the rest of the game depends on the functionality and rewards of playing with others.
2. Make death mean something! Make me lose some items, or lose xp, or whatever; just make consequences to dying! MMO players have become big babies over the past decade or so.
3. Don't restrict where I can go. Let me wander into the dungeon with mob's 15 levels higher than me and get pummeled. Just because I can't kill anything there doesn't mean I won't want to go look around.
4. Let me loot everything/everyone! If I kill someone in PvP, I want to snag their sword off their corpse and use it to kill them again when they come back looking for their body.
5. Don't restrict PvP. Let me kill other factions on sight, no matter where we are! They come into my dungeon while I'm grinding and gank me? I should have been in a party
6. Quest items should be unique, but not the best item of it's type. Crafted items and very rare drops should be better, so I have incentive to grind mob's and mat's. Characters need to look unique in their gear and still be competitive.
7. More levels. Prolong the grind - you know you love it! Not kill x collect y, but killing for XP, items, rank (in PvP), accolades, etc.
This got too long already, and doesn't feel like it should be in this thread anymore. Whatev's.
I agree with most of everything stated here apart from one aspect. Full loot on my enemies can be quite harsh from some players point of view, but there is no reason why you could not still get loot from their corpse it does not have to take everything they are carrying though. I understand the concept, but I don't like large ganking guilds or groups griefing players often to the point where they just quit. Full loot in pvp has its merits but it will certainly divide a community into have and have not. Most people don't want to spend time and effort crafting or finding the best weapons in the game just to lose them to some zerg group. This does work in some games, but this IP will not attract that group of players.
Sales and Subs would drop like a hot snot in July if TESO had perma death and or full loot rules. Too much risk for them.
Looks like it could be really interesting. Personally, the only things I care about in MMO's they seem to have a grasp on - combat, community, and PvP (I know it's called an MMORPG, but I'm not a big story guy, and people haven't adopted the term MMO Action Game). Combat with worthwhile collision detection (sphere to sphere = early 2000's!) and limited skills (have to actually think about my next battle before I start). Incentive to get into PUG's and even just cooperate with other rando's that happen to be in your dungeon/zone. To me, that is the whole point of an MMO - to play with other people, cooperatively or competitively. Sure, have plenty of things for me to do alone (craft, etc.), but what is the point of playing online if I can solo all of the content?
There will be a few features they haven't discussed yet that will make or break it for me:
1. Guild / Clan system. Don't just have it be leader / officers / members. That crap sucks. Do something like AC did, with rewards for helping out guildmates besides the warm fuzzy feeling. Be original here - the rest of the game depends on the functionality and rewards of playing with others.
2. Make death mean something! Make me lose some items, or lose xp, or whatever; just make consequences to dying! MMO players have become big babies over the past decade or so.
3. Don't restrict where I can go. Let me wander into the dungeon with mob's 15 levels higher than me and get pummeled. Just because I can't kill anything there doesn't mean I won't want to go look around.
4. Let me loot everything/everyone! If I kill someone in PvP, I want to snag their sword off their corpse and use it to kill them again when they come back looking for their body.
5. Don't restrict PvP. Let me kill other factions on sight, no matter where we are! They come into my dungeon while I'm grinding and gank me? I should have been in a party
6. Quest items should be unique, but not the best item of it's type. Crafted items and very rare drops should be better, so I have incentive to grind mob's and mat's. Characters need to look unique in their gear and still be competitive.
7. More levels. Prolong the grind - you know you love it! Not kill x collect y, but killing for XP, items, rank (in PvP), accolades, etc.
This got too long already, and doesn't feel like it should be in this thread anymore. Whatev's.
I agree with most of everything stated here apart from one aspect. Full loot on my enemies can be quite harsh from some players point of view, but there is no reason why you could not still get loot from their corpse it does not have to take everything they are carrying though. I understand the concept, but I don't like large ganking guilds or groups griefing players often to the point where they just quit. Full loot in pvp has its merits but it will certainly divide a community into have and have not. Most people don't want to spend time and effort crafting or finding the best weapons in the game just to lose them to some zerg group. This does work in some games, but this IP will not attract that group of players.
Sales and Subs would drop like a hot snot in July if TESO had perma death and or full loot rules. Too much risk for them.
I'm not suggesting that you drop everything on your person every time you die i.e. DarkFall, but maybe one of your better items - just maybe one or two things you will miss, just enough to make you not want to die. Maybe have methods of soulbinding and un-soulbinding items. Or link it to some other aspect of the game, really anything to make dying matter. I don't want people to quit because of constant griefing, but I do like to feel the animosity between factions. I think it'd be especially cool if there were faction specific items that you can only get from killing and looting a player of that faction. Pipe dreams.
Skyrim was great about letting you go where you wanted, by carefully leading you from one place to the next through quests.
If this is truly how everyone feels the case to be then I have to wonder if I was playing a different game to everyone else. This sounds like you are severely clutching at straws in order to sing the praises of quest hubs and the unfortunate situation of being ferried between them on a static and linear path for every alternative character that you create.
My soul dies a little with every new piece of information that I hear about this blatant cash grab of an MMO.
He's not singing the praises of quest hubs. He's saying there were no quest hubs. He's saying that, like Skyrim, you are sent on a quest and will find things along the way to do, dungeons and events that pop up on your compass that you can veer from the path to uncover.
If you're not familiar with that part of the Skyrim questing, I also have to wonder if you were playing a different game to everyone else. You received a quest and were directed with a compass marker where to go. That's what is being said here.
"Is it Skyrim Online? No. Is it Elder Scrolls Online? Most definitely."
I hear ya Bill, but If it's not Skyrim Online I will not be playing it. Sorry man, the industry already has crap like this. Way too much of it...
Skyrim was the last of TES to have come out. So the online game has to be on par with that. Just like Ultima Online was. You can't go backwards and half ass a clone of all the garbage that is already out that noone wants to play longer than a month.
Skyrim Online would be new and fresh. Anything less will be "meh - I have seen this, done this, no thanks".
Oh yeah there's a ton of three faction medieval fantasy mmorpgs with unique races and classes between each faction where instanced as well as non instanced pve and pvp exists. Yeah seriously bro other than Dark Age of Camelot - name me one title that has this.
I just wanted Morrowind Online, maybe oblivion or skyrim, but they just did wow / gw2 / whatever online, no matter how they talk about it. I will be trying it and will probably buy it anyway but... sigh...
Comments
I came away from the article with a more positive outlook on ESO, so I'll keep watching as it develops and see how it all shakes out.
Besides, truth be told, I never really did like ES games, even Skyrim left me sort of "meh"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not one to get excited about a game based on a small amount of information, but I really don't see where the whole ESO = WoW clone thing some people are spouting is coming from.
If anything ESO looks like a game that is trying to combine some stuff from first generation MMOs like open world content, no quest hubs, and world pvp, with more modern MMO features like action oriented combat and individual story arcs. I'm certainly not seeing a WoW clone here.
Still going to be something the market already has plenty of, I will believe it will be a good game when it launches and after 3 months everyone is like YOU HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME. Until then it is just more crap. The only games I feel even slightly psyched for after SWTOR bit us all in the ass, is Everquest Next, and Planetside 2 and even them i am leery of.
The first questions with answers are incorrect. they should revise it to be more accurate. here is how most of us TES gamers respond.
'its not twitched based' wtf? why not?
'its not first person view' really? I am out of here
'its not skill based its class baed' WHAT?
'housing isnt possible as players want it' oh really and how might that be exactly?
'this is not a single player game its an MMO' yeah we know but all the features we want already exist in MMOs
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For sure. And taking this a step further, you need BOTH communities living in the game world to really bring life into it, and have it flourish (see UO, EVE Online etc).
I actually have some decent conceptual ideas on how you could pull this off. Of course I will not share them anonymously here.
BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com
You're a bit confused. GW2 does not have quest hubs. Moreover, TESO will not get rid of the go to X, kill or collect y quests either. They may disguize them a bit, but those quests will still be there.
Or in the case of TESO, you take what works for WoW, GW2 and DAoC and just use the lore from TES games.
Okay, I have to admit, it's looking like it'll be better than when it was first announced. Still far from great in my oh-so humble opinion, and this feature sounded pretty PR heavy, defensive, and opinionated to me. It did, however, give me some better insight into the combat, which up until now, sounded uninventive.
I still do not like the race locked factions, the no dragons, the no housing, and we shall see just how "actiony" this combat really is. From an interview that Firor did, it sounded like there were only horses as mounts too, which is pretty lame for an mmo. Yes, I know that's how it was in the single player games, but they keep saying this is an mmo and therefore some things need to be different, so why not this?
They better have that freaking killer unicorn from Oblivion, or arrows to the knee all around.
"You will find zones that are too high a level for you"
Which means you also have zones that you will outlevel and again a mmo wastes massive assets of art and world design bcs its level based.
The mmo will be a downgrade, not an upgrade for TES fans:
No Virtual World
Zones with restricted access bcs of the level design
Useless mobs bcs of the level design
People not competitive in PvP until they reach a certain level bcs of the level design
Art direction significantly differs from the almost naturalistic approach of TES and goes half way comic style with bright colours and out of proportion avatar and mob design - WOW and Rift meet TES for the worse.
Lets hope it will become a true TES game with a strong mmo aspect.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
This game sounds great the more that comes out. I keep checking their website to sign up for beta or pre purchase as soon as its available. I still want to hear more indepth crafting questions, but its really early still and I'am sure they will release more info in time.
As for right now, reading that PvE encounter you describe has got me excited.
good write up
No way this get released in 2013 as they have targeted.
I have extremely low expectation for this game.
By the time it comes it, the MMORPG market will all go to FTP with cash shop.
Looks like it could be really interesting. Personally, the only things I care about in MMO's they seem to have a grasp on - combat, community, and PvP (I know it's called an MMORPG, but I'm not a big story guy, and people haven't adopted the term MMO Action Game). Combat with worthwhile collision detection (sphere to sphere = early 2000's!) and limited skills (have to actually think about my next battle before I start). Incentive to get into PUG's and even just cooperate with other rando's that happen to be in your dungeon/zone. To me, that is the whole point of an MMO - to play with other people, cooperatively or competitively. Sure, have plenty of things for me to do alone (craft, etc.), but what is the point of playing online if I can solo all of the content?
There will be a few features they haven't discussed yet that will make or break it for me:
1. Guild / Clan system. Don't just have it be leader / officers / members. That crap sucks. Do something like AC did, with rewards for helping out guildmates besides the warm fuzzy feeling. Be original here - the rest of the game depends on the functionality and rewards of playing with others.
2. Make death mean something! Make me lose some items, or lose xp, or whatever; just make consequences to dying! MMO players have become big babies over the past decade or so.
3. Don't restrict where I can go. Let me wander into the dungeon with mob's 15 levels higher than me and get pummeled. Just because I can't kill anything there doesn't mean I won't want to go look around.
4. Let me loot everything/everyone! If I kill someone in PvP, I want to snag their sword off their corpse and use it to kill them again when they come back looking for their body.
5. Don't restrict PvP. Let me kill other factions on sight, no matter where we are! They come into my dungeon while I'm grinding and gank me? I should have been in a party
6. Quest items should be unique, but not the best item of it's type. Crafted items and very rare drops should be better, so I have incentive to grind mob's and mat's. Characters need to look unique in their gear and still be competitive.
7. More levels. Prolong the grind - you know you love it! Not kill x collect y, but killing for XP, items, rank (in PvP), accolades, etc.
This got too long already, and doesn't feel like it should be in this thread anymore. Whatev's.
Skyrim was great about letting you go where you wanted, by carefully leading you from one place to the next through quests.
If this is truly how everyone feels the case to be then I have to wonder if I was playing a different game to everyone else. This sounds like you are severely clutching at straws in order to sing the praises of quest hubs and the unfortunate situation of being ferried between them on a static and linear path for every alternative character that you create.
My soul dies a little with every new piece of information that I hear about this blatant cash grab of an MMO.
This article just absolutely roflstomped every troll, well constructed indeed.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
AFter the initial announcement , the three reviews i've read, say they arenot going to have open world pvp, thank god. This has me wanting to pay more attention to this game as it comes out. Sounds like the GW2 inspiration of gaming is taken effect. No more hating playing with other players.
Sounding a bit better, for sure.
Though I will clarify, this is not elder scroll. Will definately need to look at this game and try not to get angry that they are pimping the IP.
I'm looking forward to it!!
Can't wait, at this moment it's a go for me.
Life is Short, Read a Book.
I agree with most of everything stated here apart from one aspect. Full loot on my enemies can be quite harsh from some players point of view, but there is no reason why you could not still get loot from their corpse it does not have to take everything they are carrying though. I understand the concept, but I don't like large ganking guilds or groups griefing players often to the point where they just quit. Full loot in pvp has its merits but it will certainly divide a community into have and have not. Most people don't want to spend time and effort crafting or finding the best weapons in the game just to lose them to some zerg group. This does work in some games, but this IP will not attract that group of players.
Sales and Subs would drop like a hot snot in July if TESO had perma death and or full loot rules. Too much risk for them.
I'm not suggesting that you drop everything on your person every time you die i.e. DarkFall, but maybe one of your better items - just maybe one or two things you will miss, just enough to make you not want to die. Maybe have methods of soulbinding and un-soulbinding items. Or link it to some other aspect of the game, really anything to make dying matter. I don't want people to quit because of constant griefing, but I do like to feel the animosity between factions. I think it'd be especially cool if there were faction specific items that you can only get from killing and looting a player of that faction. Pipe dreams.
He's not singing the praises of quest hubs. He's saying there were no quest hubs. He's saying that, like Skyrim, you are sent on a quest and will find things along the way to do, dungeons and events that pop up on your compass that you can veer from the path to uncover.
If you're not familiar with that part of the Skyrim questing, I also have to wonder if you were playing a different game to everyone else. You received a quest and were directed with a compass marker where to go. That's what is being said here.
I was kind of hoping for a new Fallout before they go forward with an MMO.. all well, now we just have to wait even longer =
Oh yeah there's a ton of three faction medieval fantasy mmorpgs with unique races and classes between each faction where instanced as well as non instanced pve and pvp exists. Yeah seriously bro other than Dark Age of Camelot - name me one title that has this.
/boggle
I just wanted Morrowind Online, maybe oblivion or skyrim, but they just did wow / gw2 / whatever online, no matter how they talk about it. I will be trying it and will probably buy it anyway but... sigh...